Good, when the nuclear apocalypse hits you'll be too weak to fight off the marauding mutant biker gangs and I can make soup out of what's left of your retarded corpse.  All those vegetables should give you great flavor.   
 
 
Edit: Sorry for 2 separate posts, but such a smug dipshit post had my haunches all riled up like a junkyard dog.  

" You lost me at the part where you declare yourself to be morally superior.  Honestly I sort of want to go to Five Guys now just to spite you. "

" You lost me at the part where you declare yourself to be morally superior.  Honestly I sort of want to go to Five Guys now just to spite you. "

by your logic, we can approximate that killing a 2-year-old human child is no different than accidentally stepping  on an ant to end its life.

"  

" @Ryax: i do lol "

Well taking meat out of my diet would be VERY difficult. I don't think I go a single meal without some kind of meat, and I don't go a day in my life without eating at least some beef and a couple litres of milk. It's also never failed me. Doctors tell me I'm really quite healthy (to their dismay, actually), and I've never broken anything, and I have a solid build. But most of all, eating meat makes me happy, so I don't see a reason to stop. But I'm also not going to be a hypocrite about it, I've already killed an animal before and cared about it as much as eating a piece of bacon. I just don't care about non-human lives (barring cats).  
 
Yeah, it's a dick move, but other animals do it, and I'm not pretentious enough to see myself as being above that. Those animals just eat and bone, so do I, just being human means I get to do things on TOP of that, not as a replacement. That argument's never stuck with me, the whole "We're too advanced for this shit" argument. 

Eric Cartman should kick your ass. 

I like how all the people that aren't vegetarians sound more hateful than the vegetarian just trying to share his point of view.

" @sddi: There actually is. The are very few and do it for religious reasons. They are called Jainists. Only the most devote Jainists only eat things that have died of natural causes or fruits and vegetables that have fallen from their respective plants.  They are a very interesting people.  I don't have issues with vegetarians. I just don't like when people say that killing animals is morally wrong when you have plants to account for as "Living Beings". "  

" @DevWil: @DevWil said:

by your logic, we can approximate that killing a 2-year-old human child is no different than accidentally stepping  on an ant to end its life.

"  

well what about reincarnation? I think that equates them. Theres human emotion and hormones to say otherwise because our primal subconcious tells us we need to furhter the human race, but in reality they are both living beings, you kill an ant, bam its soul reincarnates to a 2 year old child.  I do equate other animals with humans, we are not special. Just because we have all these tools and comforts of modern day living thanks to apposable thumbs, vocal chords, and a brain that has some power to it.   I also find it fairly offensive when you stereotype "the west". You say "the west" is disgusted by the idea of eating dog, but will gladly eat a cow. While America im asuming your speaking of and not canada, mexico, or the geographically correct west "europe", what you may find is not only is the reason behind this more so of the red meat industries lobbying and brainwashing of American culture, but that your statement is in reality fairly distant from the truth. Many people eat all kinds of things in America, and to stereotype over 350,000,000 people as these hypocrites is fairly ridiculous. America may be filled with Hippocratic people the hippocracies are of all shapes sizes and colors.  "

" @DevWil: The whole point of reincarnation is because you have fucked up as a being or spirit or whatever you want to call it. It is not about lesser or greater. Most Buddhists believe that what you will become in your next life is totally random. They believe that you can only reach Moksha (Freedom of life/death cycle) as a human. "

Trying to talk me into becoming a vegetarian sounds a whole lot like the people who ask me if I've found Jesus.
 
I've never seen a meat eater trying to convert a vegetarian, but then again meat eaters don't have the power of hand wringing guilt at their disposal either. Let me live my life and I'll gladly let you live yours. 100% guilt free, with Jesus, or without Jesus, and with all the sprouts you can eat.

" @DevWil: 
 
You say that the two are "directly comparable and there is really no coherent argument that [you]'ve heard for eating meat being the superior position."
 
You then go on to say that the people you would win over are people who are "compassionate/sympathetic and actually think about the consequences and morality of [their] actions."  So, eating meat is indefensible and vegetarianism is the realm of the morally conscious?  It seems pretty clear what that implies. It might not be intentional, and if it's not then I'm sorry for my dumb post, but I'm not sure how else to read that.  P.S. my actual motivation for getting Five Guys would be the deliciousness of Five Guys, not spite. "

Nutrients is nutrients wherever you can get it.

"Smug, preaching vegetarians are the reason so many people don't like vegetarians. I like to eat meat, you don't like me eating meat but you're not going to change me so why even try?"

"@DevWil said:

"I know this isn't the perfect venue and I'm probably speaking to the wrong audience, but I'd like to do something good.  How good this thing is and if it's even significant at all is a subjective thing, or is it?  That's kind of the subject I want to bring up. 
 
Meat.  The Giant Bomb staff is composed of those who may, from time to time, talk about how they enjoy eating meat.  The Giant Bomb community seems to largely like to eat meat as well. 
 
This isn't a silly rant about how I feel alienated by the Giant Bomb staff or excluded from the Giant Bomb community and how I think that in itself is outrageous.  I laughed at Vinny's joke on an old Bombcast about a 29-year-old lifelong vegetarian who was going to try meat for the first time on his birthday.  One staff member suggested that the person may not be strong enough to lift a fork to their mouth (from not eating meat) and Vinny countered along the lines of, "Well his neck would be so long from reaching leaves..." 
 
That's funny.  At its core, it's offensive (something Ryan himself acknowledged during the discussion), but it's clever and didn't seem to be said in a way that indicated that Vinny really hated vegetarians or anything. 
 
However, let's get to the issue itself: 
 
Isn't eating meat just...kind of a dick move? 
 
Humans are (apparently) supremely intelligent.  We can create awesome works of film, music, video games, etc.  However, we're still animals.  Any biology textbook will tell you that.  Other animals have emotions and can sense pain just like we do.  The double standard of people in the West cringing at the thought of eating a dog and salivating at the idea of eating a cow is ridiculous.  Sure, cows may be way dumber than dogs.  I don't know.  I'm not a zoopsychologist or whatever the correct term is for studying animal intelligence, but why not just leave them be? 
 
We as a species spend enough time ruining each others' lives; why rope more species into it?   
 
My worldview is heavily influenced by Buddhism (and I self-identify as a Buddhist) and it shouldn't come as a surprise given the focus of this post.  While I don't hold a eulogy if I accidentally hit and kill a moth as I'm driving, I don't want to consent to the killing of another living being.  If these creatures didn't want to be alive, they'd stop eating and lie down and die.  They have a will to live and--while people in the West certainly have a history of being fine with imposing their will on others--it's just a dick move to kill them for food. 
 
I started dating a vegetarian in Fall 2007.  I'm still with her.  After about 8-9 months of being with her, I figured "maybe I'll give vegetarianism a go" after no pressuring from her.  Once I ate a hot dog, mini-BBQ-rib-thing, and hamburger in front of her in a single sitting without her suggesting that I was morally inferior.  I never expected vegetarianism to stick (at least, not on the first try), but it did and I've been a vegetarian for two years. 
 
It is so easy to cut meat out of your diet.  I'm not the healthiest person in the world (far from it as I--surprise, surprise--have a very sedentary lifestyle), but I am absolutely no less healthy than I would've been eating meat.  You don't need to take 8 pills a day to replace nutrients found in meat.  Want a view into my super-crazy, hippy-dippy vegetarian diet? 
 
A very ordinary day: 
-Breakfast: Cereal. 
-Lunch: Bagel. 
-Dinner: Pizza. 
 
It really sucks just eating iceberg lettuce and plain celery all day, guys. 
 
Now, obviously this is subjective: but my favorite pizza toppings have never been meat.  Green peppers and mushrooms have been my 1 and 2 even since I would eat a hamburger without any guilt.  YES, YOU CAN EAT NORMAL PEOPLE FOOD WHEN YOU ARE A VEGETARIAN.  Guess what I had this afternoon?  Ice cream.  I'm not an alien.  I'll be the first one to admit that eating out gets a little trickier (Chinese and Indian food become much more commonplace--but who cares, Indian is delicious) and I understand peoples' suspicions about faux-meat products.  Trust me, though.  Fake chicken patties taste a lot like chicken patties.  And nobody had to die!  Not every meat has an acceptable vegetarian substitute, but the options are a lot better than most people assume.  Raw tofu is kind of gross, but so are so many other foods when they're not prepared well.  I decided today that I'm going to start promoting vegetarianism when I'm out with friends and family rather than just be the guy who gets stupid questions like "so you eat Turkey burgers instead?" and "wait, can you eat eggs?! those are baby chickens!!!!" and answers them politely and sheepishly.  And then I wrote this blog.   Eating meat and not eating meat are directly comparable and there is really no coherent argument that I've heard for eating meat being the superior position.      I understand that some people are simply not interested in the welfare of animals or the process behind what they eat and this blog won't change those peoples' minds.  That can be such a deep-rooted value that I have no delusions of getting someone who simply doesn't care to stop eating meat.  However...if you're a little more compassionate/sympathetic and actually think about the consequences and morality of your actions...consider if you want to keep doing the dickish thing and kill animals just so you can have a trivially different diet.* As this blog is pretty stream-of-consciousness-y, I can guarantee I'll wish I wrote things differently later.  I'm definitely not going to shy away from discussion, but if it's nit-picking about the blog rather than arguments for/against a position that fuels the commentary, I'll probably just ignore what you have to say (or try to). * "

Wow, sounds like someone has a carrot stuck in his vagina. "

" @DevWil: 
 
You say that the two are "directly comparable and there is really no coherent argument that [you]'ve heard for eating meat being the superior position."
 
You then go on to say that the people you would win over are people who are "compassionate/sympathetic and actually think about the consequences and morality of [their] actions."  So, eating meat is indefensible and vegetarianism is the realm of the morally conscious?  It seems pretty clear what that implies. It might not be intentional, and if it's not then I'm sorry for my dumb post, but I'm not sure how else to read that.  P.S. my actual motivation for getting Five Guys would be the deliciousness of Five Guys, not spite. "   

I respect the way you choose to live your life. But stating that "red meat is one of the worse things for your body" is utter nonsense. 
 
My great grandmother who ate meat basically everyday died last year at the grand old age of 98. My grandfather is 87 still going strong. My grandmother of 83 is still perfectly fine. They all eat meat on a daily basis. It's not like I sit down and have a plate of meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I'm perfectly healthy according to my doctor. A well rounded diet that incorporates meat is perfectly fine for your body. 
 
As far as morality goes. Whether someone eats meat or not isn't even on the list of morals I look for in people.  Far greater problems with people in the world.

We are omnivores.  It is built into us to eat meat as well as plants.  There are no morals about the way our bodies are built to function.  Eating meat in and of itself is not morally wrong.  The way we procure our meat in modern times me be morally wrong, so argue that if you want to convert people, not that process of eating meat.
  
I'd also like to say that comparing the inconvenience of cooking for a vegetarian/becoming a vegetarian to that of a diabetic is totally invalid.  A diabetic could die if they don't eat properly, you will feel guilty.  Those two things are not equal, and I take offense to this argument as somebody who has to prepare meals for a diabetic family member. 
 
I don't remember if the OP brought up this scenario or it was somebody else but in response to the dog/cow argument; the East may salivate at the thought of dog but be mortified at the thought of eating cow (traditionally considered to be sacred by some cultures and religions, notably Hinduism).  It has everything to do with cultural values, and it is in no way more backward of the West than it is of the East.  Neither are wrong, neither are right.  They just value different things.  You think you're making a moral argument about us omnivores, but you're really just letting your cultural bias show through. 
 
Finally, give up now.  People in this board are pointing out that meat-eating people sound more hostile than the OP.  Perhaps that's true.  But the OP is insulting anybody who eats meat.  OP is not offering a discussion about the pros and cons of vegetarianism.  OP is attacking people and trying to "convert" them.  That is not something you can expect people to take lying down.  For every person you may convert to vegetarianism you are turning off 100 people to the idea who, without your preaching, may have come to it on their own.  People will have a knee jerk rejection to vegetarianism because of this kind of nonsense.  You're essentially acting like a more polite missionary coming to save us heathens.  Besides, the people that I've seen really listen to people like you preach about vegetarianism are usually the kind of people that will go along with whatever counterculture thing is in at the moment, you can have them.  Offer dialogue, not attacks and you might get somewhere. 
 
Sorry for the length of this, you should probably not reply if you want a response back from me, I'm too annoyed with all of this and won't check back, but feel free to use what I've said to discuss further.

" I respect the way you choose to live your life. But stating that "red meat is one of the worse things for your body" is utter nonsense.   My great grandmother who ate meat basically everyday died last year at the grand old age of 98. My grandfather is 87 still going strong. My grandmother of 83 is still perfectly fine. They all eat meat on a daily basis. It's not like I sit down and have a plate of meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I'm perfectly healthy according to my doctor. A well rounded diet that incorporates meat is perfectly fine for your body.   As far as morality goes. Whether someone eats meat or not isn't even on the list of morals I look for in people.  Far greater problems with people in the world. "

I've always felt that we humans have canine teeth for a reason. Let's face it we humans are all omnivores by design, and meat is a fantastic source of protein. Also eating meat is bad for you, just as eating vegetables or jogging everyday is. Everything has its pluses and minuses.

So you call yourself a Buddhist eh? And am go out on a limb here and assume you're an American. If that's the case then you've really fucked up in your past life because being reincarnated into an American could possibly be the worst punishment for a Buddhist. 

i don't want to act like i'm ignoring it or didn't read it, so i'll just say that i really didn't like masternater's implications or tone.  or the fact that he came in to tell me to give up and isn't going to come back to the thread.  i think he was terribly rude and i don't think i'm crazy for saying so.  so yes, masternater, i just attacked someone. you for being rude, but nobody before that, i don't think.
 
regardless, how many times do i have to say it: 
 
if you think that eating meat is morally irrelevant, THIS CONVERSATION IS NOT FOR YOU.   nobody has been able to counter the argument that eating meat is morally indefensible.  that's the whole point.  i made some arguments for why killing animals is morally relevant, but i totally understand that it is next-to-impossible to change someone's values like that.

 
@DevWil said: 

 

most people in the west eat meat without considering the morality of it.  that's something i feel confident saying and i don't think i'm being unfair. and no, i'm not so simple that i meant "the West" as America.  that's why i capitalized 'West' and didn't say 'America'.  i meant the Western World as opposed to the Eastern (Oriental) World.  that isn't to say that everyone in India is a vegan, but it's a very different culture.  i don't think all living beings are equal.  i don't even think all humans are equal.  if you want to label me as elitist, that's okay with me because there are much worse things you could call me.  if you're appealing to Buddhism (which i mentioned) by invoking reincarnation, i'll be quick to point out that the whole point of reincarnating as a different being is that there are greater and lesser beings.  i don't subscribe to that interpretation of rebirth, anyways, so the argument is lost on me. "  

If everyone magically took the moral high road what do you propose be done with the existing poultry, beef, pork and fish? Set them all free? Let them roam the land in freedom? What happens when massive amounts of cows are slaughtered on our highways? Fish are ground up in boat propellers? Or massive amounts of pigs and birds go unchecked and start spreading disease? Is it more moral to let a cow get splattered by a car (possible injuring the driver) or is it less moral to control the animal population by raising, hunting, and harvesting them, creating sustenance for all mankind? Maybe we could start pig shelters where unwanted pigs can be humanely put to sleep?
 
Never mind the cattle, chicken and pig farmers that just lost their livelihood. A fishing industry and hobby completely shut down. All in the name of a higher "morality"? You can keep the morality, I'll take the reality.

Morals don't exist.

"  
@DevWil said: 

 

most people in the west eat meat without considering the morality of it.  that's something i feel confident saying and i don't think i'm being unfair. and no, i'm not so simple that i meant "the West" as America.  that's why i capitalized 'West' and didn't say 'America'.  i meant the Western World as opposed to the Eastern (Oriental) World.  that isn't to say that everyone in India is a vegan, but it's a very different culture.  i don't think all living beings are equal.  i don't even think all humans are equal.  if you want to label me as elitist, that's okay with me because there are much worse things you could call me.  if you're appealing to Buddhism (which i mentioned) by invoking reincarnation, i'll be quick to point out that the whole point of reincarnating as a different being is that there are greater and lesser beings.  i don't subscribe to that interpretation of rebirth, anyways, so the argument is lost on me. "  

 Did I say your were an elitest? no.   I am not appealing to budihism, im appealing to the concept itself.  To say its safe to say that the western world kills animals with no qualms at all I feel is quite unfair. Thats stereotyping almost as much as saying all black peoples' favorite food is  fried chicken and watermelon. Its really ridiculous stereotyping even more people that way. Different cultures and geographical locations eat very different things because of the area they live in and whats naturally available to them. Just because the western worlds food may look different and may seem to have a tendency to have meat in them, doesn't make it fact.   Have you been to every single country your stereotyping? have you seen every type of food from each individual country? Have you met a wide variety of people in towns and cities that will show you what is a staple of food in that society?   Until you have, you really have no real precedence to say one way or the other. I cant say I have been to every single country in the western world, but I have met enough people in my own country as well as others to at least say there is some discrepancy in your statement from what Ive seen throughout my home country of America.   To judge other cultures and who they are is quite insulting as well. You do know who they are, why people eat what they eat, why people do what they do. Cultures and customs are very different throughout the world and to judge "the western world" as morally lesser than you because we apparently eat alot of meat is a pretty bold statement and a pretty outrageous one too.  "  

" If everyone magically took the moral high road what do you propose be done with the existing poultry, beef, pork and fish? Set them all free? Let them roam the land in freedom? What happens when massive amounts of cows are slaughtered on our highways? Fish are ground up in boat propellers? Or massive amounts of pigs and birds go unchecked and start spreading disease? Is it more moral to let a cow get splattered by a car (possible injuring the driver) or is it less moral to control the animal population by raising, hunting, and harvesting them, creating sustenance for all mankind? Maybe we could start pig shelters where unwanted pigs can be humanely put to sleep? Never mind the cattle, chicken and pig farmers that just lost their livelihood. A fishing industry and hobby completely shut down. All in the name of a higher "morality"? You can keep the morality, I'll take the reality. "  

"maybe if humans weren't so okay with killing and eating other animals, a lot of other problems would go away.  maybe not, but we certainly haven't given it a shot. "

  i think that how easy it is to cut meat out of your diet compared to how much better the world is makes it an easy decision to stop.  "  

" @DevWil:  i dont think it can be argued that killing animals for food is immoral. Are animals immoral when they kill prey to survive? What about animals such as cats that are carnivores and not omnivores. A carnivores literally cannot live on a plant based diet. They will die, as they often need essential amino acids that are only found in other animal species and not in plants. Cats  are a good example of this. There are several important amino acids that have to get from animal products because of how they have evolved. Are cats immoral? What kind of universe that had any sort of divine order would contrive a system that forced creature to be immoral to survive? "  

"  
  
@DevWil said:

  i think that how easy it is to cut meat out of your diet compared to how much better the world is makes it an easy decision to stop.  "  

 I dont get this statement. Could you rephrase it in a possibly more understandable form? "

 You two win.  I didn't realize I was so ridiculous.  Edit: you know what, no.  i've been more than polite for more than 4 pages and i'm just going to say it: you two are idiots and don't understand what you're saying or what i'm saying.  my patience is shot and i wish i'd never made this fucking blog post because of ignorant fuckers like you.  i can't make a fucking statement about a culture without meeting fucking everybody...ridiculous.  CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER OH MY GOD IT WOULD BE CHAOS IF PEOPLE DIDN'T EAT MEAT.  MY GOD THE SLAUGHTERHOUSES WILL BE SHUT DOWN AND THOSE PEOPLE WON'T BE ABLE TO CUT ANIMALS APART WHILE THEY STILL BREATHE ANYMORE.  OH THE HUMANITY.  don't expect me to feel bad for slaughterhouse workers and i won't expect you to feel bad for people you find morally reprehensible, k? k. "  

" @DevWil:   No one in my meat eating family have died from colon cancer. So the relation between the two isn't complete. Yes you may get colon cancer from eating red meat., doesn't mean you will. My aunt died from lung cancer in 2002, never smoked in her life. Lived in a rural area training race horses.  If I only ate carrots everyday I'd get sick.  Just like if someone who only ate meat everyday would too. That's why I said a well rounded diet is perfectly fine.  I read that Adolf Hitler was a supposed vegetarian. High morals there.  It's your personal decision to not eat meat, because you feel a better person for it. Good for you, your free to do so. If I stopped eating meat tomorrow would I feel morally better. No not at all. I know where my meat comes from. "

" @Supermarius said:

" @DevWil:  i dont think it can be argued that killing animals for food is immoral. Are animals immoral when they kill prey to survive? What about animals such as cats that are carnivores and not omnivores. A carnivores literally cannot live on a plant based diet. They will die, as they often need essential amino acids that are only found in other animal species and not in plants. Cats  are a good example of this. There are several important amino acids that have to get from animal products because of how they have evolved. Are cats immoral? What kind of universe that had any sort of divine order would contrive a system that forced creature to be immoral to survive? "  

NOBODY HOLDS ANIMALS MORALLY RESPONSIBLE.