It's (Probably) Your Fault

Your logic:

• Gamers say Wii doesn't have enough "hardcore" (stupid fucking word) games.
• Madworld comes out, doesn't sell very well, gets pretty good reviews, nobody really gives a shit about it.
• Wii ends up not being "hardcore" enough (like gamers claimed) because gamers didn't like Madworld. (???)
• Gamers should have bought Madworld regardless, just to prove themselves wrong. (???)
• They didn't so it's their collective fault. (???)

I'm waiting till they make Madworld Party.

the wii has horrible controls and crappy games done
I bought my wii at lunch played wiisports for a month, then didn't touch till the fire emblem game came out.
I beat it and haven't turned the wii on since, in the 2+ years I've had that thing its been on a total of like 20 hours.
sorry but I think the wii was a crappy waste of money.

Wii isn't an optimal hardcore system for 3 reasons beyond the games themselves :

- poor net infrastructure
- weak hardware (does effect gameplay, despite what some people say)
- control system inaccurate and not enough buttons by default

People that deny those faults are the fanboys.  You can still have hardcore games on Wii, but these faults must be overcome.

There's a lot of other games that fail to sell well to get riled up about.  I think Culdcept series should sell better, 360 version was especially great.  Valkyria Chronicles deserved to sell much more.  Street Fighter 4 should be owned by EVERYONE who's a gamer...

"Wii isn't an optimal hardcore system for 3 reasons beyond the games themselves :- poor net infrastructure- weak hardware (does effect gameplay, despite what some people say)- control system inaccurate and not enough buttons by defaultPeople that deny those faults are the fanboys.  You can still have hardcore games on Wii, but these faults must be overcome.There's a lot of other games that fail to sell well to get riled up about.  I think Culdcept series should sell better, 360 version was especially great.  Valkyria Chronicles deserved to sell much more.  Street Fighter 4 should be owned by EVERYONE who's a gamer..."

I only reason madworld sold any units at all was because it was M rated, which is something both the real consoles grew out of.

I actually think this is a pretty funny rant, and I agree with you on some of your points.  But, you know, not all of us have the money to buy every console and every game on that console that we're interested in.  I don't have a Wii, and therefore cannot support it, not because I don't want one, but because I can't afford it. 

The Wii "hardcore" base is the same as it was with Gamecube. The only real difference is the millions of addional people who have purchased their WiiSports and WiiFit machine. Sure, with a larger user base you'll garner a bit more support, and you'll find some success in catering to these new consumers. But for the most part the "hardcore" games that have been released on the Wii and DS just aren't the types of games the majority of people who own these systems want.

I didn't buy Madworld because it made my goddamned eyes bleed.

Well, if MadWorld was worth $50 then maybe people would have bought it. Highly overrated.

Well, you see, it's because MadWorld is a shitty game and nobody wants to play a top down GTA anymore. That, and GTA IV is still pretty fresh, so I bet most people don't really care for a new GTA game, especially a 2D one.

Maybe it's The Economy, yea.

MadWorld might be a core title, but it was destined to be one of those cult hits.  It's way too niche to be hugely successful.  The true test for the Wii will likely be The Conduit, a traditional FPS which if great, gamers will buy it in droves.

As for Chinatown Wars, I smell a hint of evergreen... we'll find out next month.

*Sigh* Failure all around. Figured as much.

I never said Madworld was a great game. Neither are a lot of games that sell (Army of Two, Gears of War 2, Wii Music, Red Steel, World of Warcraft). It's still a good game, if not a little on the repetitive side. Certainly it has tons of charm and artistic merit. But whatever. Nobody cares about those things.

And I wasn't talking about just MadWorld. Zack and Wiki, a charming little game, didn't sell that well. Wario Land: Shake It didn't sell that well. And I'm very worried about The Conduit.

Look I'm pretty much out of breath on this one... You people failed to support the gamecube for stupid reasons, I don't even know why I bother anymore. I just suppose I needed to say thanks to everyone for letting me down. People never cease to do so.

(Also I do understand the financial situation, and I was hoping you'd be able to figure that one out on your own. Course you can't, so let me state it clearly: I understand economic reasons, and am okay with them. However, if you truly are worried about your economic status, are you sure the X-Box and PS3 are right for you? Just a thought.)

Well I hope you all enjoy your Halo ODST's and what not. And thanks, again, for helping to make the Wii desolate because of terrible preconceived notions brought on by your petty fan-boyish ways.

(Man I can't believe somebody actually argued that the DS isn't "core" enough, and that gamers don't want it. That'd be so funny if it didn't make me sad.)

lmao you're the fanboy.

You keep stating again and again points that are made null by the user base on the Wii. The reason Madworld didn't sell well isn't because the hardcore gamers wouldn't like it(which is irrelevant), it's because the hardcore gamers have other systems with more games tailored to their play style. Quality of the games aside, Madworld and GTA Chinatown were destined to fail because they targeted the right audience on the wrong system. Picture trying to sell Mario or something nintendo-ey on the PS3 or 360. The numbers would be low because the people who play on those systems are definately not the types that bought a PS3 to play Mario. Apply that to the Wii, and the issue is apparent. I'm repeating myself because i think you just don't understand.

Btw, you guys like the word 'core' too much. lol.

im a pretty hardcore gamer but I have a difficulty seeing mad world as a hardcore gamers game.

For me it seems like an extremely violent simplistic casual game.

Conclusion: hardcore should never, ever, ever be used. Ever.

"*Sigh* Failure all around. Figured as much.I never said Madworld was a great game. Neither are a lot of games that sell (Army of Two, Gears of War 2, Wii Music, Red Steel, World of Warcraft).

People who own Wii's are either completely ignorant of what games exist, don't play games, or like me: Have gotten over the novelty of waggling and wiggling, and have given up on trying to find good software for the damned thing and occasionally play gamecube games on it.

"People who own Wii's are either completely ignorant of what games exist, don't play games, or like me: Have gotten over the novelty of waggling and wiggling, and have given up on trying to find good software for the damned thing and occasionally play gamecube games on it."

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/694849/Gamers-Should-Be-Blamed-For-The-Pathetic-Sales-Of-Chinatown-Wars-And-MadWorld.html

I'm not alone. It feels kind of good to know this.

Quality of one game aside, the fact is people bitch and moan but they don't pay attention to the good stuff and they let it slip right by. I don't know why you people insist on continuously arguing this point with me. If I were to sit here and say the PSP has no games on it, a common statement mind you, would you then rise up and hollar how wrong I am? Would you not then try and list off a bunch of games for it? I know I can. Even games I don't like, but I know people do like, I can list them. You see, unlike the folks out there who think I'm a fanboy, I am clearly capable of making distinctions between systems. I know the difference between what's reality and what's stupid conjecture by a few loud mouthed gamers (and that includes those in the media). Tastes of games aside, the fact is that people are ignorant, not just in video games. I don't know why I haven't gotten over this yet... I should have learned to stop expecting much out of you folks a long time ago.

It is disappointing to see Madworld sell so badly. I'll explain to you exactly why I didn't buy it - because it's £35. And you can call me "casual" (dumb word) or an idiot or whatever the fuck you want to call me but I don't want to pay £35 on a game that's been openly stated as repetitive, is without any kind of online play/DLC/replay value (don't get me wrong, I DON'T think that multiplayer is the be all and end all), doesn't have trophies/achievements/anything like that and isn't in HD.

Now call me what you will, shallow, dumb, whatever, but in order for me to pay £35 for a Wii game it's going to have to be something akin to a Zelda/Mario or at least very special - because I believe I'm getting MUCH better value for money out of my Playstation 3 games (at £39.99 if I shop on the high street).

And that's why SEGA didn't sell me a copy of Madworld. Which is a shame because aesthetically it looks quite fun, and I've no doubt it's a pretty good game while it lasts. Is it a £35 type of game though? Perhaps I'd have to BUY it before I could know for sure, but you see where I'm coming from -- it doesn't SEEM like it is.

As for the Conduit -- I absolutely cannot see why anyone with a Playstation 3 (running Killzone 2), XBOX 360 (running CoD, Gears or Halo) or a PC (running Crysis) would be bothered with The Conduit at all. But then, that's just me.

DrRandle said:

"http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/694849/Gamers-Should-Be-Blamed-For-The-Pathetic-Sales-Of-Chinatown-Wars-And-MadWorld.htmlI'm not alone. It feels kind of good to know this.Quality of one game aside, the fact is people bitch and moan but they don't pay attention to the good stuff and they let it slip right by. I don't know why you people insist on continuously arguing this point with me. If I were to sit here and say the PSP has no games on it, a common statement mind you, would you then rise up and hollar how wrong I am? Would you not then try and list off a bunch of games for it? I know I can. Even games I don't like, but I know people do like, I can list them. You see, unlike the folks out there who think I'm a fanboy, I am clearly capable of making distinctions between systems. I know the difference between what's reality and what's stupid conjecture by a few loud mouthed gamers (and that includes those in the media). Tastes of games aside, the fact is that people are ignorant, not just in video games. I don't know why I haven't gotten over this yet... I should have learned to stop expecting much out of you folks a long time ago."

No More Heroes had all the "traits" you say about MadWorld but it was certainly worth it. As long as it appeals to you, you should go for it., imo. MadWorld didn't grab me like No More Heroes did so I also wait for some kind of deal first. Furthermore, every single game I can think of is "repetitive" as you finish them just how you started them, whether that was shooting people in the head or jumping from place to place. Some more so than others, but in general it's the rule. They get harder, they give you a few new toys, but they all have a core gameplay that repeats from start to finish. MadWorld is an old-school brawler and it couldn't have it any other way. If it's not your thing, great.

As for the Conduit, I guess I'm not you (lol), as I have a PC running Crysis (bleh) yet I can see the Value in The Conduit just as I saw the value in F.E.A.R. a few years ago even though it wasn't any sort of groundbreaking experience, in its offline or online mode. It was just another fun game, that was worth its money. I think The Conduit will end up similar (if it's not a dud like Haze was). The firefights look fun, the story entertainingly cheesy and it spices up the shooting with some exploration and puzzle solving (not really brain twisters, just things that break the pace, Half-Life style) and on top of that some old-school GoldenEye/Perfect Dark-esque multi player modes (shame no offline MP though) complete with ranks, unlockable cheats, etc. It should be a fun little package, especially since I enjoy Wii FPS controls, and it seems to do them best.

But anyway, dev costs for the Wii make projects like MadWorld worth it even if they aren't incredible success stories like Nintendo's own. Just because they didn't sell doesn't mean they'll stop developing games like it. No More Heroes didn't sell either compared to big-name franchises yet that was enough to consider it the most succesfull Suda game and it's getting a sequel to boot, while it's still too early for MadWorld as games like De Blob and Boom Blox had initially even worse sales but eventually became success stories that warrant sequels.

Imo, third parties have finally seen the Wii for what it is, and that is not a chance for Nintendo-like multi million sales if they can't do something incredibly special and mass appealing, but a place where they can target niche audiences and make a good sum, or a place where they can experiment without much risk. See Square Enix creating their first open world sandbox action adventure like I wrote in another thread (Crystal Bearers as opposed to the super high budget yet super conventional FFXIII). It's similar to the DS, or downloadable games on any platform, except not quite as cheap and at the same time not quite as limiting (better specs than the DS, larger potential audience than downloadable games as retail is still king, no file size limit, etc), while it also provides the new control possibilities (which Crystal Bearers wouldn't be as good without). That sort of thing is a great bonus both for core Wii owners and the industry in general, imo.

In short, stop worrying so much. It's not a big deal if these games didn't sell so well, and it's still too early to even judge that, especially in the case of Chinatown Wars. Seriously, are we gonna start pretending the DS is also a casual-only-games system just because of GTA? It has a vast range of games that can satisfy just about every niche, casual or core, and is THE handheld to have for core gamers, GTA or not. Stop making such things such a big deal when they really aren't. Take Two are semi-pleased with it, GameStop was surprised with the sales considering it's against pokemon, yet analysts and the media jump to spell doomsday. Fuck them.

The fact of the matter is that GTA didn't sell well on the DS, either. Are we going to now argue that the DS isn't a core system? because that is outright bloody lunacy to argue.

No More Heroes for Wii



That is all.

We're not the ones to blame for the poor sales of Mad World and Chinatown Wars.

so you think your better than everyone because you like the wii
I think your the fanboy here friend

I'm sorry, but whenever somebody calls World of Warcraft a shitty game, I sort of lose all respect for them as a game enthusiast.
You might not like it, but you should be able to observe and understand its qualities.

Still not getting it, are we?

"I'm sorry, but whenever somebody calls World of Warcraft a shitty game, I sort of lose all respect for them as a game enthusiast.
You might not like it, but you should be able to observe and understand its qualities."

It is a bad game, hands down. It's full of tons of issues. I'm not saying it's not a fun game because that, my friend, is a "relative" term, or subjective if you will. That's just like how I enjoyed Alone in the Dark on 360. It was a terrible game that needed another month of QA and some work here and there, but I still found a lot of fun to be had in it.

"so you think your better than everyone because you like the wii
I think your the fanboy here friend "

I think I'm better than most people because I want all of the consoles to do what they do best, and succeed. That includes the Wii. I spent a shit ton of money on my (recently red-ringed) 360 and PS3 and would like to get enjoyment out of those just the same. Buying them just to hate them is a craziness even I can't fathom. I want the Wii to succeed because I have one and I like it, and I think it's capable of a lot more than most people are giving it credit for. If I am the fanboy, I'm a video game fanboy. I'll gladly admit that. Also it's "you're" not "your." Simple English, aye?

"However, we are to blame for the poor sales of Valkyria Chronicles."

I haven't sat down with that yet, but I've watched my roomate play a good portion of it, and I can agree to these terms. That's a gorgeous game, if nothing else. Also: another game with John Dimaggio that I think shoudl be supported.

"Didn't you know that the DS is a system only owned by 12-year olds...and that would explain why GTA: Chinatown did so poorly on the handheld.  It's a game outside the systems 12-year olds demographic.  Besides, Lisa Kudrow doesn't want to shoot hookers and deal smack, she wants to bake cakes with her daughter."

Lmaonade.

"I assume what "grind your gears" is a fear that new games with aggressive content won't be produced for the system in favor of games with the word "party" in them.  Well, if you choose to blame gamers for not supporting the system's forays into more adult fare, then I suppose that is your right."

I suppose I didn't make it clear that it's not necessarily about the "aggressive" games. Lord knows I love me some Animal Crossing. I also loved Zack and Wiki, another underrated title that slipped right by despite tons of style and appeal, and that's what this is really about to me. Sure MadWorld may be, at it's core, a fairly run of the mill beat-em-up, but it has so much other style going for it. If I were to write a review, I'd slap a 4 out of 5 stars on it, and that's my opinion. Subjective. However, when I know that people are looking at games like this and trying to decide if they're going to put more effort into Wii games, I am getting more defensive of these titles. Not because they're violent, or M Rated, but because they're unique and well thought out. I also loved No More Heroes, I know somebody mentioned that earlier, and I put MadWorld in the same boat.

"Now call me what you will, shallow, dumb, whatever, but in order for me to pay £35 for a Wii game it's going to have to be something akin to a Zelda/Mario or at least very special - because I believe I'm getting MUCH better value for money out of my Playstation 3 games (at £39.99 if I shop on the high street).

As for the Conduit -- I absolutely cannot see why anyone with a Playstation 3 (running Killzone 2), XBOX 360 (running CoD, Gears or Halo) or a PC (running Crysis) would be bothered with The Conduit at all. But then, that's just me.

That's unfair. I certainly haven't moaned about Wii games, are you throwing us in the same bucket? I'm just sitting, waiting patiently for something to come my way. And Punch-Out!! is that game I'm waiting for by the way.

Are you saying we're all wrong because we feel we are getting better value somewhere else?"

I've mentioned this before but here we go again, no if money is your concern than fine, watch your bucks and only get the most Triple A'inest titles that come out of the works. The Metal Gear Solid and Halo and Mario and what have you. They're good. I own them, too. I'm just saying, if you want to see more content like that come out for the system, the support needs to be there in the first place. And why do we want The Conduit? Because it looks to have the best controls of an FPS on any console. Period. End of Sentence. If it's half as good as Resident Evil 4 felt on Wii, I think we're in for a treat. People keep viewing these things in the wrong light... It's not that we're excited because "Oh, look! A novelty!" It's because there's something really there. What's Killzone? An FPS that plays like every other FPS and looks great? Sure. That's fine. But I've played a ton of FPS' and want one that can bring something truly innovative to the table, and that's what The Conduit is looking to do, hopefully with a little bit of that Half Life vibe I keep getting off of it. (Which, by the way, Half-Life is a superior FPS to most of them... Just wanted to throw that out there. And TF2 FTW. Okay I'm kind of a Valve nut, I'll admit it.)

If you're all about games that look great, well then you're already lost to my cause because you've written off the Wii a long time ago. Which is funny because you probably also played the PS2 and wrote off the GameCube even though it was a better system (though the XBOX had the most juice under the hood.)

So what does this all make me in the end? I guess I'm just the guy who wonders why people keep going to see bad movies like Step Up 2 The Streets when great movies go by unwatched. I'm rooting for the indies, and the little guys. And even the big guys when they pull out something unexpected, like Dead Space. There's another game I don't think people supported properly, and it was a 360 game. Ok, from now on, let's complain that you didn't buy Dead Space enough, how's that? Forget MadWorld. Will that work?

I have to stop reading this forum.

I bought Chinatown Wars, Madworld, No More Heroes, Dead Space, and The World Ends With You. I support those games because they appeal to me. Unfortunately the install base for the Wii and DS skews to a demographic who are either too young for such games or arn't interested in them at all. Sales numbers don't lie. It is what it is.

"Still not getting it, are we?

"I'm sorry, but whenever somebody calls World of Warcraft a shitty game, I sort of lose all respect for them as a game enthusiast.
You might not like it, but you should be able to observe and understand its qualities."

It is a bad game, hands down. It's full of tons of issues. I'm not saying it's not a fun game because that, my friend, is a "relative" term, or subjective if you will. That's just like how I enjoyed Alone in the Dark on 360. It was a terrible game that needed another month of QA and some work here and there, but I still found a lot of fun to be had in it.

"so you think your better than everyone because you like the wii
I think your the fanboy here friend "

I think I'm better than most people because I want all of the consoles to do what they do best, and succeed. That includes the Wii. I spent a shit ton of money on my (recently red-ringed) 360 and PS3 and would like to get enjoyment out of those just the same. Buying them just to hate them is a craziness even I can't fathom. I want the Wii to succeed because I have one and I like it, and I think it's capable of a lot more than most people are giving it credit for. If I am the fanboy, I'm a video game fanboy. I'll gladly admit that. Also it's "you're" not "your." Simple English, aye?

"However, we are to blame for the poor sales of Valkyria Chronicles."

I haven't sat down with that yet, but I've watched my roomate play a good portion of it, and I can agree to these terms. That's a gorgeous game, if nothing else. Also: another game with John Dimaggio that I think shoudl be supported.

"Didn't you know that the DS is a system only owned by 12-year olds...and that would explain why GTA: Chinatown did so poorly on the handheld.  It's a game outside the systems 12-year olds demographic.  Besides, Lisa Kudrow doesn't want to shoot hookers and deal smack, she wants to bake cakes with her daughter."Lmaonade."I assume what "grind your gears" is a fear that new games with aggressive content won't be produced for the system in favor of games with the word "party" in them.  Well, if you choose to blame gamers for not supporting the system's forays into more adult fare, then I suppose that is your right."I suppose I didn't make it clear that it's not necessarily about the "aggressive" games. Lord knows I love me some Animal Crossing. I also loved Zack and Wiki, another underrated title that slipped right by despite tons of style and appeal, and that's what this is really about to me. Sure MadWorld may be, at it's core, a fairly run of the mill beat-em-up, but it has so much other style going for it. If I were to write a review, I'd slap a 4 out of 5 stars on it, and that's my opinion. Subjective. However, when I know that people are looking at games like this and trying to decide if they're going to put more effort into Wii games, I am getting more defensive of these titles. Not because they're violent, or M Rated, but because they're unique and well thought out. I also loved No More Heroes, I know somebody mentioned that earlier, and I put MadWorld in the same boat."Now call me what you will, shallow, dumb, whatever, but in order for me to pay £35 for a Wii game it's going to have to be something akin to a Zelda/Mario or at least very special - because I believe I'm getting MUCH better value for money out of my Playstation 3 games (at £39.99 if I shop on the high street).As for the Conduit -- I absolutely cannot see why anyone with a Playstation 3 (running Killzone 2), XBOX 360 (running CoD, Gears or Halo) or a PC (running Crysis) would be bothered with The Conduit at all. But then, that's just me.That's unfair. I certainly haven't moaned about Wii games, are you throwing us in the same bucket? I'm just sitting, waiting patiently for something to come my way. And Punch-Out!! is that game I'm waiting for by the way.Are you saying we're all wrong because we feel we are getting better value somewhere else?"I've mentioned this before but here we go again, no if money is your concern than fine, watch your bucks and only get the most Triple A'inest titles that come out of the works. The Metal Gear Solid and Halo and Mario and what have you. They're good. I own them, too. I'm just saying, if you want to see more content like that come out for the system, the support needs to be there in the first place. And why do we want The Conduit? Because it looks to have the best controls of an FPS on any console. Period. End of Sentence. If it's half as good as Resident Evil 4 felt on Wii, I think we're in for a treat. People keep viewing these things in the wrong light... It's not that we're excited because "Oh, look! A novelty!" It's because there's something really there. What's Killzone? An FPS that plays like every other FPS and looks great? Sure. That's fine. But I've played a ton of FPS' and want one that can bring something truly innovative to the table, and that's what The Conduit is looking to do, hopefully with a little bit of that Half Life vibe I keep getting off of it. (Which, by the way, Half-Life is a superior FPS to most of them... Just wanted to throw that out there. And TF2 FTW. Okay I'm kind of a Valve nut, I'll admit it.)If you're all about games that look great, well then you're already lost to my cause because you've written off the Wii a long time ago. Which is funny because you probably also played the PS2 and wrote off the GameCube even though it was a better system (though the XBOX had the most juice under the hood.)So what does this all make me in the end? I guess I'm just the guy who wonders why people keep going to see bad movies like Step Up 2 The Streets when great movies go by unwatched. I'm rooting for the indies, and the little guys. And even the big guys when they pull out something unexpected, like Dead Space. There's another game I don't think people supported properly, and it was a 360 game. Ok, from now on, let's complain that you didn't buy Dead Space enough, how's that? Forget MadWorld. Will that work?I have to stop reading this forum."

"I'm waiting till they make Madworld Party."

"Still not getting it, are we?

"I'm sorry, but whenever somebody calls World of Warcraft a shitty game, I sort of lose all respect for them as a game enthusiast.
You might not like it, but you should be able to observe and understand its qualities."

It is a bad game, hands down. It's full of tons of issues. I'm not saying it's not a fun game because that, my friend, is a "relative" term, or subjective if you will. That's just like how I enjoyed Alone in the Dark on 360. It was a terrible game that needed another month of QA and some work here and there, but I still found a lot of fun to be had in it.

"so you think your better than everyone because you like the wii
I think your the fanboy here friend "

I think I'm better than most people because I want all of the consoles to do what they do best, and succeed. That includes the Wii. I spent a shit ton of money on my (recently red-ringed) 360 and PS3 and would like to get enjoyment out of those just the same. Buying them just to hate them is a craziness even I can't fathom. I want the Wii to succeed because I have one and I like it, and I think it's capable of a lot more than most people are giving it credit for. If I am the fanboy, I'm a video game fanboy. I'll gladly admit that. Also it's "you're" not "your." Simple English, aye?


And why do we want The Conduit? Because it looks to have the best controls of an FPS on any console. Period. End of Sentence. If it's half as good as Resident Evil 4 felt on Wii, I think we're in for a treat. People keep viewing these things in the wrong light... It's not that we're excited because "Oh, look! A novelty!" It's because there's something really there. What's Killzone? An FPS that plays like every other FPS and looks great? Sure. That's fine. But I've played a ton of FPS' and want one that can bring something truly innovative to the table, and that's what The Conduit is looking to do, hopefully with a little bit of that Half Life vibe I keep getting off of it. (Which, by the way, Half-Life is a superior FPS to most of them... Just wanted to throw that out there. And TF2 FTW. Okay I'm kind of a Valve nut, I'll admit it.)

 Which is funny because you probably also played the PS2 and wrote off the GameCube even though it was a better system (though the XBOX had the most juice under the hood.)So what does this all make me in the end? I guess I'm just the guy who wonders why people keep going to see bad movies like Step Up 2 The Streets when great movies go by unwatched. I'm rooting for the indies, and the little guys. And even the big guys when they pull out something unexpected, like Dead Space. There's another game I don't think people supported properly, and it was a 360 game. Ok, from now on, let's complain that you didn't buy Dead Space enough, how's that? Forget MadWorld. Will that work?I have to stop reading this forum."

"You say you're a fanboy of good games, but the sole reason many long term gamers don't like the Wii is it's not delivering good games, and most of us see Nintendo's decisions as limiting that aspect of the system.  By being a fan of good games, many gamers start to dislike the Wii.  Personally I'd LOVE Nintendo to go back to making quality games like they did in the past, but I can see that is no longer their focus.  Basically, as a gamer I want GOOD things to succeed, not just everything..."

Okay, by disliking the system at all and ignoring any good games that go by it, you're completely undoing your purpose for loving good games. That's like When I originally bought my 360 I did it for Bioshock. I didn't have any other game on the system that I really wanted (Okay there was Oblivion, but the fact is it was limited.) But that didn't mean I hated the 360. I just wasn't impressed with the lineup very much, but I still bought and have since found great games. People's perceptions of a console are blurring them from finding the good games.

Also, Nintendo, for a fair deal is still making pretty quality games, but I also like the focus shift they've taken. Personally? Wii Fit's done me wonders for getting back into health, and Personal Trainer: Cooking was surprisingly helpful. I thought it'd just be a cookbook but it was much more. Besides the point, this is..

I agree with you in that as a gamer I want good things to succeed as well, and that includes the Wii. The Wii is good. If you can't see that, you're just plain ignorant.

"You are completely wrong. If you don't like World of Warcraft personally that's fine, but don't say that it's a terrible game. You just sound like a moron. I had this conversation with someone a week ago about Guitar Hero and Rock Band. They said that Guitar Hero and Rock Band were terrible games and it's just plain ignorance. If you don't appreciate a game that's one thing, but you should be able to understand why it appeals to so many people. It appeals to a ton of gamers because its a fun and quality game, whether or not they enjoy the game themselves is irrelevant. I HATE Oblivion and Fallout 3, but I can appreciate why gamers enjoy them. I don't let my personal taste determine the games quality."

Okay, people, the game is broken and destroys the otherwise awesome lore that Blizzard had been up-until developing for the Warcraft universe, plain and simple. I didn't say you can't like it, I didn't say you're an idiot for liking it. I just said that technically, it is a bad game. I didn't say it was the worst thing ever. It's just not that great. It's busted. Fallout 3 and Oblivion are also broken games riddled with terrible game design. They're bad games, but you know what? I still love me some Fallout 3.

I didn't say I can't appreciate what people see in WoW, you're just putting words into my mouth. I just said it was a bad game, pure and simple.

"Okay, people, the game is broken and destroys the otherwise awesome lore that Blizzard had been up-until developing for the Warcraft universe, plain and simple.

I didn't say I can't appreciate what people see in WoW, you're just putting words into my mouth. I just said it was a bad game, pure and simple."

How is the game broken? How is the game bad?

I hate to tell the TC, but there sure as hell is no way anyone could argue the DS is a 'hardcore' system. The vast majority of its owners are from 'non-traditional market' demographics.

Okay, by disliking the system at all and ignoring any good games that go by it, you're completely undoing your purpose for loving good games.

Also, Nintendo, for a fair deal is still making pretty quality games, but I also like the focus shift they've taken. Personally? Wii Fit's done me wonders for getting back into health, and Personal Trainer: Cooking was surprisingly helpful. I thought it'd just be a cookbook but it was much more.

I agree with you in that as a gamer I want good things to succeed as well, and that includes the Wii. The Wii is good. If you can't see that, you're just plain ignorant.



Okay, people, the game is broken and destroys the otherwise awesome lore that Blizzard had been up-until developing for the Warcraft universe, plain and simple. I didn't say you can't like it, I didn't say you're an idiot for liking it. I just said that technically, it is a bad game. I didn't say it was the worst thing ever. It's just not that great. It's busted. Fallout 3 and Oblivion are also broken games riddled with terrible game design. They're bad games, but you know what? I still love me some Fallout 3.I didn't say I can't appreciate what people see in WoW, you're just putting words into my mouth. I just said it was a bad game, pure and simple."

"I hate to tell the TC, but there sure as hell is no way anyone could argue the DS is a 'hardcore' system. The vast majority of its owners are from 'non-traditional market' demographics."

A second glass of Lmaonade, please? The DS easily has a ton of phenomenal games on it, probably if not as many than more than any other console. It doesn't matter if the system happens to also sell well to the other folks, it is a purely awesome machine and any self-respecting gaming enthusiast should be able to recognize that and be apart of it. Or maybe they can't afford it, but they should at least be able to recognize that. You, sir, are clearly wrong.

"There are aspects of the Wii that I like, but if I were to evaluate Wii on a scale from 'the best console ever' to 'the worst', Wii would be closer to worst than best.  To that extent, I'd rather see the system do poorly than well.  I still own my Wii and enjoy games on it occasionally, but if the entire industry were to follow that path, gaming would be less captivating to me.

I realize this next portion of your response isn't directly to me, but I'll respond anyways.  Why is it a bad game?  Destroying the lore of the Warcraft universe is one small aspect, but you fail to bring up anything substantial about WoW that makes it 'bad'.

Now Fallout 3 and Oblivion are bad?  Just because a game has faults that doesn't make them bad.  By your logic every game ever is a 'shitty game'..."

Holy hell, where to begin... well from the top, I suppose. I don't see what you're rating the console on. if you're rating it on horsepower alone, it has to be better than most because it's really only the 3rd least powerful console evermade.. Maybe 4th, I forget where it stacks up exactly to XBox, but I don't care because with all it's extra features, I find it to be better. I'm not here to argue the ups and downs of the Wii, that's a different blogpost somewhere else in my back catalogue. The fact is the Wii is no where near a bad system, and it has plenty unique things to offer. Clearly what you've all missed, and maybe due to my ranty nature, is that if somebody comes to a publisher with a great, original idea for the Wii, like Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, I don't want it to be overlooked because publishers see the Wii as a threatening place to put out that kind of game, and yet that's exactly what's happening. (Side note: I'm also worried EA won't make awesome original titles because of the low success of Dead Space and Mirror's Edge). I'm not saying I think every game should be made on Wii, OMG. I'm saying the Wii is perfectly viable and you can't hold a glut of bad games against the system. Othewise we'd be like that idiot above who thinks the DS and GBA were apparently terrible systems that don't appeal to "Traditional" gamers.

And you want to see it fail? I don't... I don't understand that at all. You want less avenues for a different variety of games? Can't we have cake AND ice cream? If you didn't like the ice cream, for whatever reason, and just ate cake... would you want ice cream to die in a fire? Why? It's not hurting you existing. That's just mean, for one thing, and stupid, because you're not allowing any good that could come out of this situation to evolve. You'd rather we just keep upping the arms race and doing the same games over and over on the same controllers. (I'm aware new and original games can still come out for these systems, so please don't try and argue that like you've found some loophole. You haven't. My statement still stands.) Also.. You want it to fail? You want something you spent money on to become a piece of plastic that doesn't get used? That... I don't even know... That's like wanting your 360 to go red-ring so you can be like "HA! Take THAT, Microsoft!"  Why wouldn't you want better games to come out for it? Games that appeal to you? There's no logical way it's IMPOSSIBLE for a game you want to play to come out onto Wii unless all you are is a tech-spec-whore... in which case I've got another series of problems with you.

Also, WoW is a game with broken class mechanics, it pisses all over the lore (and when you're trying to make an immersive, story rich world... pissing over the story is probably a bad idea), and oh yeah it's totally exploitable. It's not designed well on various mechanical aspects. It is, apparently, a well-designed interactive social networking device (unlike somthing like Home), as people love to get together and do whatever. But as a mechanical game it's not that great. I'm not saying it's terrible and maybe even "bad" is going a bit far. But I know I'm not crazy because of the people I know who play it, and of the people those people know, not many of them can honestly say they think it's that great of a game. That doesn't change the hundreds of hours they've put into it, and the fun they have with it.

Also, yes Fallout 3 and Oblivion are bad games. They did not just have a few flaws, they were fucking broken. And they look terrible. The animations are attrocious, the game looks like plastic, and it's buggy as all get out. It's still a damn fun game if you can get over that stuff. It's a bad game, there's no two ways about it. But for me, it was still fun. That's like my old Neon... My front bumper was in my back seat, the transmission was about to give out, it needs new tires and probably a bunch of other stuff... oh also my driver door just plain did not shut. I had to hold it shut with my arm. Now if I took this Neon and went on a road trip accross the country... Did I have fun? Well that's subjective to me personally. What I did on my trip and how much I enjoyed it doesn't change the fact that the car I took that trip in was a piece of shit, and there is no way to logically argue against that, it's a simple point of fact. Fallout 3 was a terrible game, but it still can be enjoyable depending on how much you can overlook the parts that suck.

Damnit didn't I say I'd stop looking at this?

I agree, a lack of interest in stupid violent games doesn't mean Wii owners don't like hardcore games it just means they aren't stupid people who drool at gore.