Tired of hearing "God of War Clone"

Let me first start by saying i love God of war, Devil May Cry and the Hack'n'Sash genre.

Me and my friend just had a pretty heated discussion about God of War, Devil May Cry and in general, the Hack'n'Slash genre. It first started when i told him about my frustration at the term "God of War clone" used to describe games such as the upcoming "Dante's Inferno" etc, the term kind of implies that God of War single handedly coined the Hack'n'Slash genre. However i refuse to accept that God of War is the single inspiration for the genre, and that other games such as Devil May Cry have played a larger role in the genre than God of War will ever do. This is were the shit hit the fan and we continued to compare each of the games best aspects against each other. 

He started by claiming that God of War is by far the best Hack'n'Slash game there is, describing to me how cinematic the game feels, with its epic story. He then went on to describe that the combat system is the best used in the genre and that if a poll was made of the best games from the genre God of War would win.

To counter his argument i started by describing the impact Devil May Cry 1 had on the genre (we will forget 2 ever existed) and that God of War was infact a Devil May cry Clone  so to speak (GOW even uses souls to upgrade weapon) to which he denied. Furthermore i stated that Devil May Cry 3 boasted  more robust mechanics than any God of War to date, and that its weapon and combo system have yet to be matched by any game.

We continued at this for at least an hour.

I guess this post has no real meaning, but my frustration comes when other games which have made a larger more valuable impact on the genre are forgoten (similar to modern FPS's like Halo, Killzone 2 an so on being called the best in the genre and the truely legendary games such as Doom,quake and Goldeneye being looked over and their influence forgotten.

I also wanted to find out what the larger community thought about God of War (does it really diserve all the credit?) and Devil May Cry. Including their personal view on other games in the genre and influences which are looked over. What do you also think of the term "God of War clone"

40 Comments
40 Comments
Posted by eclipsesis

Let me first start by saying i love God of war, Devil May Cry and the Hack'n'Sash genre.

Me and my friend just had a pretty heated discussion about God of War, Devil May Cry and in general, the Hack'n'Slash genre. It first started when i told him about my frustration at the term "God of War clone" used to describe games such as the upcoming "Dante's Inferno" etc, the term kind of implies that God of War single handedly coined the Hack'n'Slash genre. However i refuse to accept that God of War is the single inspiration for the genre, and that other games such as Devil May Cry have played a larger role in the genre than God of War will ever do. This is were the shit hit the fan and we continued to compare each of the games best aspects against each other. 

He started by claiming that God of War is by far the best Hack'n'Slash game there is, describing to me how cinematic the game feels, with its epic story. He then went on to describe that the combat system is the best used in the genre and that if a poll was made of the best games from the genre God of War would win.

To counter his argument i started by describing the impact Devil May Cry 1 had on the genre (we will forget 2 ever existed) and that God of War was infact a Devil May cry Clone  so to speak (GOW even uses souls to upgrade weapon) to which he denied. Furthermore i stated that Devil May Cry 3 boasted  more robust mechanics than any God of War to date, and that its weapon and combo system have yet to be matched by any game.

We continued at this for at least an hour.

I guess this post has no real meaning, but my frustration comes when other games which have made a larger more valuable impact on the genre are forgoten (similar to modern FPS's like Halo, Killzone 2 an so on being called the best in the genre and the truely legendary games such as Doom,quake and Goldeneye being looked over and their influence forgotten.

I also wanted to find out what the larger community thought about God of War (does it really diserve all the credit?) and Devil May Cry. Including their personal view on other games in the genre and influences which are looked over. What do you also think of the term "God of War clone"

Posted by JJOR64

DMC 1 had a very big impact on the action genre.  If DMC didn't exist, God of War wouldn't exist.

Posted by Bubahula

i tottaly agree, that said i still hate hack and slash games

Posted by eclipsesis
@JJOR64: i also think that, i remember playing devil may cry when i first got my playstation 2 and it just blew my mind away, at that point in time i had never played a game like it 
Posted by Ineedaname
Dante's Inferno is the only really called a clone of GoW because of the style and levels of gore they're adding in the game.
Posted by eclipsesis
@Ineedaname: but the gore is unavoidable, the divine comedy its self it written very graphicly and when made into a game the results were unavoidable, i think dantes inferno would still look as it does if GOW didn't exist
Posted by EVO

If anything, Onimusha: Warlords deserves credit. After all, it was released before Devil May Cry.

Posted by Ineedaname
@eclipsesis: but it's the way the whole game looks like it plays, the way the gore is carried out, Divine Comedy may have it's own style, but that's not providing the basis for the gameplay, their unoriginality is.


(I feel I should clarify again this isn't me hating on the game just me saying why I think what I do, the game might be incredible for all I know.)
Posted by eclipsesis
@EVO: true but devil may cry was in development since resident evil 2. 
Edited by CoolDrMoney

You would think that God of War and Gears of War were the first games ever created when reading about video game influences in articles nowadays.

Also, both of you are wrong, Ninja Gaiden Black is above and beyond DMC or God of War.

Posted by eclipsesis
@Ineedaname: i guess under close inspection the game does have a very close resembalance to GOW, the idea of Dante's Inferno its self does kind come across as a alternative to GOW. 
Posted by TheMustacheHero

I hate the God of War games, they are just boring after a while you realize it's the same thing. Go into room, Door is sealed, kill all enemies in room, door opens, proceed to next room, do it all again.

Posted by TheFreeMan

Maybe it's because I played it a few years after it was released (but I can still play DMC3 to this day and love it), but I felt God of War was overrated as hell. I personally feel that the game devolves once you find the most effective combo in your arsenal that you spam over and over again, because the enemies, to me, didn't act differently enough from one another to warrant different battle tactics. The fact that the only other weapon you got was practically useless compared to the chains didn't help matters much.

Also, I hated how enemies were invulnerable to being stunned during their attack animations-I thought that it was a sort of cheap way to increase the game's difficulty. This last point might piss people off (or not, I don't know), but I thought the game, aside from certain environments and some of the characters, was ugly. The art style didn't do much for me and a lot of it just seemed so....plain, and blurry. Who knows, maybe it was just me. It wasn't a bad game, necessarily, but I don't feel it deserves all of the praise and attention it got. I think that DMC3 is the superb game in comparison.

With all that being said, I don't think using "God of War clone" is wrong. Dante's Inferno really does look a lot like GoW, not only because of the gore and mythological/religion based setting, but also because of the quick times and long-range main melee weapon. Being labeled a GoW clone isn't necessarily a detracting statement either.

Of the games I've played in the genre, I still think DMC is the best franchise, although I really enjoyed Ninja Gaiden 2.

Posted by Axersia

Ummm... no. GoW is not a DMC clone. They play nothing alike, set out to do different things, and appeal to different crowds.

If anything, GoW is a Sands of Time/Warrior Within clone.

I don't really have any problem with the term "GoW clone" though, because if it's Western-made, it probably is GoW clone.

Posted by Ineedaname
@eclipsesis: I can see what you mean as the alternative, they may add in a few new game mechanics and what not, where GoW will more than likely be the same old GoW, but having said that....

@TheMustacheHero:
I can't help but agree, it's tedious, the whole gore thing really annoys me aswell.
Posted by eclipsesis

@CoolDrMoney: i feel the same way, everyone always refers to third person shooter now as "gears of war inspired" describing cover systems or shooting mechanics, when in actual fact Gears of war is influenced by resident evil 4.

Ninja Gaiden is awsome, and is a true example of the genre 

Posted by eclipsesis
@TheFreeMan: I think what sets GOW apart from Devil May Cry is the scale of the game and the environments, However i always thought and still do, that devil may cry has the potential to be a fantastic game, better than it is now
Posted by TheFreeMan
@eclipsesis said:
" @TheFreeMan: I think what sets GOW apart from Devil May Cry is the scale of the game and the environments, However i always thought and still do, that devil may cry has the potential to be a fantastic game, better than it is now "
I think that the last two DMC games were great (especially DMC3), but I agree that they could be pretty damn mindblowing if they really tried. Here's hoping to DMC5 to fill that potential.
Posted by Godwind

I'm not a huge fan of hack/slash games, but they are fun to play.  Also, QTE was ripped from Shenmue, which was ripped from Dragon's Lair(?), which was used to rip quarters from the pockets of children but who really gives a shit.

I think FPSes are different because it is an overdone genre.

Posted by eclipsesis
@TheFreeMan said:
" @eclipsesis said:
" @TheFreeMan: I think what sets GOW apart from Devil May Cry is the scale of the game and the environments, However i always thought and still do, that devil may cry has the potential to be a fantastic game, better than it is now "
I think that the last two DMC games were great (especially DMC3), but I agree that they could be pretty damn mindblowing if they really tried. Here's hoping to DMC5 to fill that potential. "
Fingers,toes,legs and arms crossed
Edited by jNerd

God of War deserves credit for its quality & its following. No one says "Devil May Cry clone" because the game wasn't that popular nonetheless it wasn't superb by any means. Devil May Cry is the asian God of War & that was the problem.....

Edited by Illmatic

I think God of War brought the genre back to a mainstream public eye. Also, while I agree with you on that DMC 3 may have a more robust combat and combo system, the God of War system is much more friendly and has a smoother feel to it all. With Devil May Cry, if you are not aware of what moves link best to what, the moves end up feeling clunky and stiff. On the other hand, with a simple two or three button press, Kratos may pull of a double digit combo complete with flashy effects and an orchestra chanting your name in the background. Devil May Cry has a high barrier to entry for some people so God of War is next plausible choice for them. I for one prefer God of War for its aesthetic.

Posted by PureRok

These console Hack 'n Slash games are just clones of games like Final Fight and Fatal Fury.

Edited by TwoOneFive

nobody is saying that God of War invented the genre by any means, its just that games like Dante's Inferno as clearly drawing a LOT of inspiration from GoW. 

If you can't tell the difference between GOW and DMC you're blind. Its not just about the gameplay mechanics when you play GoW, its the whole package- everything from the tone to the setting to the characters to the story. He's the most badass character that ever came out of the genre and thats saying a lot. Hackin and Slashin never felt so right before, when you are in control of Kratos there is nothing else you'd rather do than rip people's limbs off. 
Posted by ZombiePie

It happens all of the time. After the original DOOM was released almost every Sci-Fi FPS after that was called a DOOM clone for while. You can't stop the human compulsion to make comparisons to other games to make people understand the gameplay for a game.

Moderator
Posted by TwoOneFive
@eclipsesis said:
"

@CoolDrMoney: i feel the same way, everyone always refers to third person shooter now as "gears of war inspired" describing cover systems or shooting mechanics, when in actual fact Gears of war is influenced by resident evil 4.

Ninja Gaiden is awsome, and is a true example of the genre 

"
wtf is that supposed to mean? a true example? GOW isn't a true example of the genre?!
Posted by TheGreatGuero

God of War was a complete masterpiece. I don't quite think Devil May Cry can touch it. Regardless, whenever you have a big breakthrough game come out that redefines a genre, all similar games are often referred to as clones. Doom clones, Goldeneye clones, Halo clones, Gears of War clones, Grand Theft Auto clones. You know how it goes. God of War tops Devil May Cry, and that's why it's the one that gets the recognition here.

Posted by The_A_Drain

Cool story bro.

You fail to realise that whenever something reinvigorates a genre, or sets a new benchmark for quality, it becomes the new standard hence anything remotely similar becomes a 'clone'.

I don't see you complaining about equally bullshit terms like Halo clone, fuck, even the allmight "Doom Clone" would be bullshit by your reckoning, there were many first person shooters before doom, Doom just blew them all out of the water much like God of War had done for the hack n slash genre, and Resident Evil 4 for third person action.

Don't be offended by it, because you're clearly interpreting the term the wrong way, it doesnt mean what your dumbass friend says it means. Also, your friend is a dumbass, he's clearly an ignorant God of War fanboy if he wont accept those points about Devil May Cry. But the point still stands that "something clone" usually means that the newer game has been copied to ride on the coattails of the clonees success, not that the clonee gave birth to the genre, besides these terms have to be constantly updated because if I said to you that "generic 2009 FPS" was a Faceball clone, you wouldnt have a fucking clue what I meant.

Edited by Tebbit

I would say that DMC is to GoW what Goldeneye is to Halo. God of War has more deliberate (a.k.a. comparatively more slugglish) controls, and more Western sensibilities, and thus simply refined what DMC began into something more digestible, and less... hardcore, perhaps?

So while DMC was definately the party-starter for Hack 'n Slash, most games in the genre these days try to ape GoW, with it's slower moving player-character and overall less Japanese-style gameplay. The closest thing I can see to being a DMC clone is (for obvious reasons) Bayonetta.

@The_A_Drain said:
 if I said to you that "generic 2009 FPS" was a Faceball clone, you wouldnt have a fucking clue what I meant. "

I'd know what you meant. Faceball was from Bizzaro-world.
Edited by The_A_Drain
@Tebbit:

Not the one i'm talking about. It was the first commercially released First Person Shooter, and it was for the Atari 2600 (although not called faceball, I forget its actual name, but it was later rebranded faceball)

It was also ported to the original gameboy, heres the box as I couldnt find an Atari one. Hence my point about these terms needing to be updated otherwise people wont know wtf you mean.



And that wasnt even the first FPS, there were a couple of university projects, and other experimental non commercially released FPS's. There would then be a couple Faceball clones, an ID game I forgot the name of that paved the technological path for IDs future games, and Wolfenstein 3D before we even get to Doom.
 
Edit: Also, as for DMC being the 'party starter' no fucking way, if you're going to argue that a previous game deserves credit for being the current standard, then you effectively have to go right back the beginning which in this case would be Double Dragon or something like that, otherwise where do you draw the line? and how do you go about deciding that? No. Just accept that sometimes a game will reinvigorate a genre in such a way that it becomes hailed as the new standard, regardless of whether or not it's a better game than a previous entry in the genre (Although I personally happen to think God of War is roughly equal with DMC 3)
Posted by eclipsesis
@The_A_Drain: Wolfenstein 3D was King. I agree with you on almost everything thing you said. Im not offended, the whole point of my post was to find of what people thought of the issue. I plan on showing my friend this blog post so that he can see what people truly think and so tht he will get his fanboy-ish head out of his arss. The problem i had when speaking with him is that he wouldn't agree that some of my points made were perfectly valid.
Posted by eclipsesis
@TwoOneFive: i Just ment that Ninja Gaiden on the NES/SNES (i can't remember what system it was on) was an example for people to follow same with Strider on the Mega drive. And don't miss understand me i love GOW as much as the next man.
Edited by Nasar7

I don't really think GoW is all that either. Sure, its fun, but it wasn't genre defining or anything for me. Between GoW and DMC I prefer DMC 1, that was a great game. That said, Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden are the best hack n' slash/action game series.

Edited by amoremono1
@eclipsesis:   I personally think calling Dantes Inferno a God of War Clone is giving it a little too much credit.  Theyre definitely different games, and Dantes Inferno took a couple cues from GOW 1&2 (two of my favorite games, if you cant tell), but its still not the same game.  I would probably love DI  (I didnt) if it were a GOW clone; I loved Heavenly Sword, and I would say that was closer to GOW in terms of delivery and gameplay than DI.  But theyre still all their own hack'n'slash.  Calling something a clone of GOW to me implies that it does the same thing, just as well.  Thats the key for me, and I dont think either of those games holds their own against either GOW.  Its got more epic in its pinkynail than those games have in total.

Man, April seems so far away.....
Edited by DavidSnakes

" I don't really think GoW is all that either. Sure, its fun, but it wasn't genre defining or anything for me. Between GoW and DMC I prefer DMC 1, that was a great game. That said, Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden are the best hack n' slash/action game series. "

@Nasar7: I'm with this guy.  Actually, no, I'm gonna go ahead and say Ninja Gaiden Black is hands-down the best character-action game ever.  God of War is child's play, mash buttons and watch QTEs.  NGB is a fucking manly man's game.  I don't endorse NG2, having played the demo and not liking it.
Posted by Linkyshinks

Agree, it is a lame pass off. I like all those games also.... I don't even like the term hack n slash now, it's come to the point where it's used it a derogatory manner constanly.

Looking forward to Bayonetta,.

Posted by BeeLow

Personally i liked DMC3 and DMC4 much better than GoW. I like the characters better and i like the art style better. But im not saying that its a bad game. I liked GoW  and have two of the games but after im finished both of them i could never go back and play it again cause i wasnt interested anymore. With all the DMC's (excluding 2 which i refuse ever exsisted) i go back and play through them all the time. Also i like the term GoW clone when it comes to Dante's Inferno cause of how similar they look. The cross and its magic to Krotos' lightning are very similar. Same with the really long reaching scyth and Kratos' chains. But you cant call DMC a GoW clone or the other way around because of how differently the play styles are. Either way DMC is the best hack n' slash game for me :)

Posted by LiquidPrince

No game in recent history has made a bigger impact on the hack n' slash action adventure genre then God of War, so your friend is right in that respect. It has an epic storyline, larger then life battles with a huge variety of enemies in stages so beautiful graphically, it can put to shame some 360/PS3 games. Devil May Cry 3 was also another amazing game, and both are in my top five favorite games of last generation. Devil May Cry upped the ante and the action in the cinematics department but overall God of War is definitely the game that all other games should strive to be in this genre. So then it is appropriate that games like Dante's Inferno should be called God of War clones, especially since they borrow so heavily from mechanics that God of War made popular.

Edited by CaptainTightPants

I loved GOW 1&2, loved Dmc 1
But i cannot stand DMC2&3, They get repetitive (both GOW and DMC)
But I can enjoy GoW alot more because the story is interesting, and DMC because the story is interesting. But DMC 2 and 3 just bore me :O
 
Other then that what the earlier guy said, he explained it perfectly
 And as for calling it a clone, why would i mind
 
But i have to agree with most people Ninja Gaiden is the best
Btw why has nobody mentioned Dynasty Warriors.....  :P ROFL

Posted by TheHT
@JJOR64 said:
" DMC 1 had a very big impact on the action genre.  If DMC didn't exist, God of War wouldn't exist. "
if resident evil didn't exist, DMC wouldn't exist.
 
LOL WUT I SAY?!