You feel you can say everything because it's the internet. From the number of other websites you quote for their policies I get the feeling you get banned more often from forums. I feel it is time you start looking at yourself. Yes you can blame others for all the times you get banned or punished. But maybe it is you as well? Finally: You can't just say things because it is the internet, there are real people behind those usernames. From the story you tell I do not get the feeling you are a member that contributes to the better of Giant Bomb. Maybe if you change but not right now.

The double standards between the staff and normal members is a relic of Web 1.0, where a website is similar to a kingdom; it makes for an abusive relationship if you disagree with the staff on a regular basis.

With the number of flak Patrick has gotten over some of his articles this is simply completely false.

You seem very angry about this, are there any forums out there that you do like? You left IGN and now GB forums because of their 'policies' is there any chance the problem might be on your side of the screen?

All my interactions with the staff have been positive and in most cases they've replied to PMs I've sent them. My only complaint about the moderators is that they use their moderator accounts to do their normal user postings which mixes work and play but that's a grey area.

This is not elementary school, it is the internet, and after being harangued for no reason, this is a fair response

I think you're confused on that point, the internet is a cesspool.

The fact that you're not banned is direct evidence that everything you've said is wrong. Think about it dude.

We have a strict policy of not making users' moderation history public, but I'm sorely tempted to make an exception, post your history from the last couple of months, and then watch as the community rips you to shreds.

Mods are silly, but not overly intrusive or ban happy as far as I can tell. Granted I usually have a love/love relationship with mods since I troll forums in an amusing and intelligent sounding fashion instead of the usual tripe.

@nictel: I rarely post on forums at all, and generally am never banned from them. I mention IGN Boards, as I'm sure most anyone who goes there will tell you that the moderation is legendarily bad. Also, while Patrick may get plenty of negative feedback, it's generally disregarded as 'the internet.' He can say the same thing, though, and it's fine - that's the double standard.

@salarn: Yeah, I freely admit at the start that I wrote this when angry, because I had been juggled by bans for a long while. The thing about what you're saying is, it is extremely subjective banning when it is for making a joke. Obviously, if you read everything I had to say and think I'm a liar, I can't convince you they're not above criticism. The internet is a cesspool, yes, that is the point, you need to have thick skin or you're going to get offended one way or another. It's just hypocritical that users get banned for making harmless jokes when the staff are constantly doing it in every video. I say live and let live, or just let people send in a frigging ban reply form so it can be discussed like adults.

@mb: I appreciate a mod posting in my thread. Giant Bomb does generally have a loose moderation policy but when you cross the threshold, that's when it's poor. Simply adding a ban reply form would fix that, is there a reason why there isn't one? I'm not saying all mods are bad or that Giant Bomb is bad, I wouldn't be here if that were the case. I'm worried about the future of the site and thought I may be able to provide insight as one of the few members who actually got banned.

No, I am Spartacus!

Have you ever stopped to consider that if everyone you interact with on the interent seems like an asshole then maybe it's you with the problem?

"If you don't know who the asshole is in your group, It's you"

And for the record, all the interactions i have had with the staff have been positive. It's one thing them insulting each other because they are fiends, Some random on the internet doing it however if completely different.

@endurancefun: You can always email support@giantbomb.com or reach out to one of the various staff members on Twitter. They do get back to people...just make sure to tell them that the reason you got suspended was for telling other users to "Suck my dick, choke on it" after receiving multiple warnings for such behavior.

I mean really, dude? The constant digs against various members of Giant Bomb staff is one thing, but when you start attacking other users, your time here is coming to an end. I actually can't believe you weren't straight up banned for some of the hateful comments you have made towards your fellow users.

@mister_v: I've had a fine time on Giant Bomb with regular members, so no, I don't think that is true. I also don't objection with even half the staff, who are great and it's not like I hate Jeff or Brad for my interactions with them in any case.

@mb: I can, but isn't that very unclear? I actually have e-mailed that address long in the past and got no reply. The process should be simpler. I also don't think that referencing some Phil Fish meme is that offensive, but whatever, that's not the point here.

We are not completely blind to some of the issues you mention here. We actually recently (after the new site design was launched) created an email address where users can contact the mods externally:

giantbombmods@gmail.com

It's also worth noting the difference here between the staff jokingly calling each other assholes or motherfuckers and one user angrily telling another to "fuck off" on the forums. As testament to this, Ryan made a public apology after he accidentally used a racial slur in a live stream. We mods have to use our own discretion, but it's usually pretty easy to differentiate between when someone is joking and when someone is being malicious.

As for the extension on your suspension, you would have got that regardless of who you were insulting. The notion that the we should have to tolerate your insults purely because we volunteer our free time to moderate the site is ridiculous, though.

As we have always said, if you are unhappy with the way the site is moderated you are free to contact a member of staff directly. However as MB has already mentioned here, we have logs of your every transgression to support our actions and, in all honesty, I can't see the staff taking your side over ours.

IF anything moderation on GB is too lax. So many times you see people so blatantly trolling yet there aren't any real rules they're "tehcnically" breaking so you just have WhyAreYouCrouchingSpock guys pop up and stick around until they get bored or they finally start breaking rules.

@endurancefun: I wasn't calling you a liar or saying the GB staff/moderators are above criticism. I was more interested in knowing what if any forum you do feel safe to be you on.

However, this thread is going places, dark places, likely resulting in people spending time trying to shame you. Not something I want to be a part of, so good luck and god speed.

@sweep: That's good to know, but it should be built into the site. Jeff has outlined before that some users exclusively comment, use the forums, post on videos, or articles. There is no way to catch all of these users if they do fall into being accidentally banned like I was the first time, when it was supposed to just be a warning. The rest of what you say, I don't feel the need to comment on as it's already addressed in response to @mb but I do find it ridiculous that the 'mod team' takes offence as a group. I'll admit I've made some big mistakes before but what I talk about in the blog speaks for itself.

@humanity: Eh, I personally like that the mods are not extremely anal about bans, that would completely ruin the comments and I would definitely have left a long time ago. I'm surely not alone on that.

I don't care if you think it is a meme or whatever with Phil Fish, telling someone to choke on a dick deserves a ban in my opinion.

@salarn: I would hope Giant Bomb posters wouldn't be so immature. Though I do love a good witch hunt.

@village_guy: But I wasn't telling him to suck on a dick, just as people who post "FUCK YOU" aren't actually telling anyone to fuck off.

Regardless this users personal experience he dose bring up some good points, such as:

1. Users, especially paying members, need a clear working way to escalate problems, and appeal bans. This has always been a problem for giantbomb.

2. Public display of peoples cooldown in chat is only asking for trouble. Perhaps just the mods, and staff should see the cooldowns for users.

hopefuly @snide sees this. ( and eventually adds a submit button to chat )

@dagbiker: Thanks for that post. I edited the post to be less inflammatory. Weird glitch forced me to double post.

Vinny said something similar of someone's mother on the recent DadCast. It was great.

It's okay you canceled your sub. I'll just sub twice to not have to put up with junk like this on the site.

@sirdesmond: I don't see what's junk about it and I imagine others have had similar problems.

I honestly agree, it seems a little like mods are prone to haphazardly throwing suspensions on people (specifically talking about the Livestream Chats), especially for some reason when the person is EnduranceFun. I mostly just browse the chat as I watch streams and several times it feels like in a sea of dumb jokes he gets targeted for his dumb joke more than anyone else, with little explanation and in the case of the X-COM stream a ton of abuse thrown his way. I'm not really sure on the reasoning for suspensions in the chat making big messages pop up in it; it sort of just seems like a way to turn the suspended into easy targets. In many cases that could be warranted, but it's not great for an online community.

On the flipside, I really dislike this culture of cynicism that is reinforced by the types of attitude by people like EnduranceFun. It seems strange that a site built by dudes just having a good time being game reviewers seems to have this building community of people that love to make snarky, somewhat bitchy statements whenever they don't instantly like something (see: the hate Maxwell got in the first New Releases Show, the hate Chris continues to get, and the hate given out by the community to any game that seems in any way generic). That said, unless a rule is instated that stops that kind of thing, the mods shouldn't be picking and choosing which comments are or are not annoying enough to warrant action.

@endurancefun said:

Could someone explain to me why this word is acceptable in any context, including this post? Also, the OP should be thankful he didn't get a permaban for the "suck my dick" nonsense. I think the mods around here seem plenty lenient.

Because in its context it's not offensive, it's just listing out words the staff has said.

@lackingsaint: I'm interested in how you perceive my treatment in chat. I also really don't like the public cooldown meter, it serves no purpose for the other members in the chat other than derailing discssion on whatever is going on in the stream. It's not like it's shaming the person for what they said as the chat scrolls too fast when busy, it's just creating a beacon for other users to hate on the person. Seems wholly unnecessary.

good times watching people struggle with the realization that their moral system isn't universal.

you're probably right. there should be a way to appeal a ban. telling someone to suck your dick though should probably get you at least a temporary suspension on a site like this. If that's a problem there are plenty of places still around where you can voice/vent like that and be alright, if not accepted.

I'm going to come at this from the other side. I run a small gaming community site. In comparison to GB, it is tiny, but we get around 50 people visiting the forums everyday, and maybe half that number of new posts each day. The amount of hassle and work required to fix an issue on the forum once it is already started (ie 2 people are bitching at each other in an otherwise fine thread) is ridiculous. I have to try and play detective and discover what started the argument, how it went from standard internet arguing to calling each other faggots, and then an appropriate response to each that doesn't make each of these little shit's friends pm me and complain about how I was too harsh with their friend, and how it was the other guys fault. Now multiply that but 10,000 or so and you can the kind of comparative bullshit a site like GB would get compared to mine. I honestly don't know how they handle it, as it seems like they have less than 30 of them. The mods don't answer to the community, just like the staff don't. It's not a democracy, and your freedom isn't the most important thing to consider. Especially when it comes to repeat offenders, they have better things to do than babysit your ass and make sure you follow the rules, they have a thousand other things they need to look into. The mods here let a ton of shit go, and they know full well that doing so gives them a fuckton more work to deal with when someone inevitably takes that laid back mindset as a lack of rules all together. I'm biased obviously but I have a lot of respect for what these mods go through on a daily basis and for dealing with the creeps that are some internet forum goers while still maintaining their general duder mentality.

You've done something bad, haven't you?

Yeah, I really think public timeouts are a mistake on a chat system where it is possible to directly message another user. Depending on the speed of the chat it opens that user up to a lot of hate and attacks. Having them restricted to mods and staff only seems like a smart choice. Only semi related, but during the EVO stream I got around 6@ messages telling me to do things such as "fuck off" and "kill yourself" when I said I wished they wouldn't do fatalities in MK and move onto the next game.

To be honest, there're always double standards on any website. Some more obvious and annoying than others, but it's just something you have to get used to and start ignoring because it never changes.

@endurancefun said:

I believe Ryan said that word once on a livestream and promptly issued an apology. Don't act like homophobic slurs are acceptable out of the mouth of GB staff, because that's simply untrue.

@twigger89: I understand and approve of the hands-off approach to moderation, it's that the rules can be unclear as a result. I've been called an asshole and told to kill myself more than once on the forums but no one ever got banned for it, and I don't care, it doesn't offend me. However, it does offend me when I get suspensions for making far less insulting comments.

Maybe I'm wrong though, and @petiewis right about moving on from that.

@funkasaurasrex: I'm not saying it is, but it's a word that was said by the staff. It's not like posters here don't also sometimes regret what they post.

Just because this is the internet, you do not have a total license to be an asshole.

Have some sense of manners and decorum, and you won't run into problems like this.

Part of the reason I love Giant Bomb is that they suspend/ban/mod people who say stupid things like "choke on a dick."

@endurancefun: I don't think it is so much that the rules themselves are unclear, but how much context colors what's been said. For example, we've both used the word faggot in our posts, but because we were using the word just to point out how shitty of a word it, there is no attached emotion or implication with it. On the other hand, I'm sure we could come up with a situation where calling someone something as simple as pig or dog could be offensive enough in a given context to warrant a ban.

In a perfect world for every infraction the mod would tell you the specific rule you broke and explain why he or she believed you broke that rule. I just don't think that is practical for a site this big. Maybe there is a middle ground that has yet to be discovered, which would benefit both parties. As it stands now, it makes sense to be a decent dude all around, and only talk shit when you think what you have to say is worth the possibility of a ban.

@mtcantor: And yet sometimes worse insults go unchecked.

@twigger89: It's hard to know what that middle-ground is, but I feel there are at least a couple obvious changes that could be made to improve moderation on the site. You actually had to reply to the IGN Boards with the ban response form and then they'd message you back saying why you were banned and for how long. While you get messaged about that on Giant Bomb, there's room for mistakes to be made and seemingly no way to get in contact that's stated if you're banned. Just something as simply as listing that e-mail in all the messages and saying you can contact a mod if you send it a message would be a simple solution.

Is it really all that hard to just not be a jerk?

@mtcantor: I'm not a jerk. What a mean thing to say!

Says the guy who got modded for saying "choke on a dick."

The fact that you've even still here at all is proof that the mods are probably a little too nice.

You cancel Giant Bomb and Giant Bomb cancels you.

I'm not entirely sure what that actually means but it's true.

The mods could be watching you closer then others which maybe isn't totally fair but can you really blame them? After the amount of rage you've thrown at staff, Patrick and Brad in particular, they're probably done putting up with any infractions, jokes or otherwise.

The fact that you have a familiarity with IGN's banning process is very, very telling.

@mtcantor: It was a joke, in poor taste perhaps, but that does not make me a jerk.

@kerned: Not really. IGN back in the day, used to give out bans like candy. That is circa 2005, now those forums are dead and the majority of posts are as comments.

I flagged this thread, because I thought it was inappropriate, and then I saw multiple mods posting in here, so they're more lenient than I would be.

You made a few good points about proper escalation avenues (even though some already exist), but people still abuse it by trying to start "revolutions" through other forum users and on Twitter to overturn bans and stuff, and a more concrete escalation service would probably cut back on that kind of thing, and threads like this.

You kind of killed your point by being so bitter and personal about it, though.

@endurancefun said:

Have you tried not being a dick? It's less about what words you can/cannot say, and more about the intent behind your words. It's not that confusing, the staff swears a ton, sure, but it's always lighthearted and friendly. If you're being nasty, you deserve to get banned. You've obviously been around the internet for awhile, so you know that sarcasm can be tough to pick up on via text, so... just be a little more mindful of your words?

@toowalrus: I'm usually mindful of what I say. People keep bringing up the Phil Fish quote, but it's not like I said, "suck my dick and die," it was poking fun at Patrick for being a hipster, that was the context. Of course, some sites would ban you just for saying dick, quite literally. I thought that the community may have some opinions on the topic and I could make a couple helpful suggestions.

How are you getting banned from IGN of all places? I've seen your posts around here for months and you come off as one of the more aggressive posters on this site. Maybe you're not misunderstood, but just need to tone it down a shade.

He was quoting his wife telling his own mother to suck a dick in a moment of frustration, and maybe was exaggerating or something. Which is, of course, a bit different than telling complete stranger to choke on a dick.

The forums, comments and chat need much, much more moderation and probably more strict rules of conduct and harsher penalties for screwing up.