@hailinel: She can be many different popstars. but never a singular entity because everything that image does comes from thousands of different sources. Different audience for different styles. This invalidates her as ONE popstar and magnifies her key characteristic of being first and foremost a tool.
As for the original subject of whether she's a better popstar than Justin Bieber or not, if we take her "official" and most recognizable image i stand by what i said earlier. Same difference. It's not particularly original or creative but it is well marketed and executed and is very effective, just like Bieber.
You said something though. "One can fall apart like any other human being. The other is made to simply sing without complaint; her heart is based entirely on those of the software's users." Some have implied, and i think the polygon video does too, that this make her better. I wholeheartedly disagree with that premise. To evolve and grow as both a human being and an artist you need to live through life and all it's ups and downs. You don't become better at anything if you remain static and if all your work is anonymous and disguised as this virtual image you will remain static.
Except that Vocaloid concerts have never restricted the Volcaoids specifically to one style of music or another, or one specific voice, for that matter. The concerts that have been performed use line-ups of songs from a variety of song writers and musicians. The concerts are themselves collaboration efforts to that effect, as they would not be possible without the people that created those songs. And those songs are created by people that have all lived through their ups and downs. And the sheer volume and diversity of the songs that have been created, whether they be simple pop songs or complex narrative ballads, songs meant for children or for adults, there is a lot of human emotion on display. And it makes me wonder if some people are just upset that, rather than perform these songs themselves (or somehow find others to perform for them), users of Vocaloid choose to give their thoughts and feelings voice in song through a fictional character, in turn giving the characters themselves voice.
That Miku isn't a real person isn't what matters. It's that she's a venue for the hearts and minds of those that create songs with her, and by extension give her that voice. That give her an identity as singer and performer. An identity that people enjoy hearing and enjoy seeing.
When you think of Bugs Bunny, do you think of the character wisecracking and doing battle with Elmer Fudd, or is your first thought of Mel Blanc behind a microphone munching celery?
What you think is irrelevant, because Bugs Bunny is nothing more than a series of drawings moved in sequence at a speed to imitate motion, played in tandem with Mel Blanc behind a microphone munching celery. That is an indisputable fact. Of course you can think that isn't the case, just like you can think that the earth is a flat disc flying through the ether in one direction, that there are 9 circles in the heavens, and that evolution does not exist. However, all of those things will continue to be what they are regardless of what you think.
@hailinel: A pop star is a famous performer of pop music. Miku has no agency. Miku is incapable of free thought and free will. Thus, Miku is incapable of performing music. If you're going to sit there and tell me that a pre-rendered hologram counts as a performer then we're done here, because I'm not going to read you insulting my very existence. Miku cannot learn songs. Miku cannot improvise solos or play requests. Miku cannot create anything, because Miku is a fictional character. Miku does not exist. I don't get what is so hard for you to understand about this. Miku is not the artist, Miku is the tool. Miku is as capable of creating art on her own as a paint brush. THAT is why Miku is not a pop star.
A pop star is an entertainer, or a provider of entertainment. Miku does just that. She is a provider of entertainment. The source of that entertainment is songs created by human beings. This is not an attack on your intelligence. If I am attempting to assault anything, it's your closed-mindedness regarding the very notion that Miku, or Vocaloids in general, could be considered such. You have established a strict definition of pop star in that it requires the star to be a living, breathing individual, but such is not necessarily a requirement.
Miku is a glorified puppet show. The providers of the entertainment are in fact the human beings who have worked hard to construct, animate, compose, and perform the Miku "concert".
Provide (n.) : to furnish or supply; to make available; to be the cause or source of. Miku has no agency. Miku is incapable of doing any of those things on "her" own, and is in fact incapable of doing anything period whatsoever entirely, because she is a puppet acting out the will of her controllers. She cannot actively do anything, because she isn't actually alive and doesn't actually exist.
You have done nothing but regurgitate the same thing over and over. Explain how a puppet has the agency to actively participate in anything by choice of its own free will and I'll concede the point.
This isn't a debate about whether or not Miku is a better icon, this is a debate about whether or not Miku is a better performer, and since Miku cannot be a performer, Miku cannot be better.
@hailinel: I don't see how this contradicts my point that she's only a tool. Whether it's used by established artists to do something else just for kicks or newcomer using her image to find an audience it's still only a tool. And if her music comes from possibly thousands of different people and is represented in tons of different genre how could she be considered the same person every time despite sharing a common image? She's not a popstar, she's a content creation tool.
She is a content creation tool that is also a pop star. Vocaloid concerts have been held; people actually pay money to see holographic projections of Miku and others on stage, singing and dancing. She is a figure that people like to see perform.
None of that is real. It's pre-rendered. Anyone can make a vocaloid performance.
@hailinel: A pop star is a famous performer of pop music. Miku has no agency. Miku is incapable of free thought and free will. Thus, Miku is incapable of performing music. If you're going to sit there and tell me that a pre-rendered hologram counts as a performer then we're done here, because I'm not going to read you insulting my very existence. Miku cannot learn songs. Miku cannot improvise solos or play requests. Miku cannot create anything, because Miku is a fictional character. Miku does not exist. I don't get what is so hard for you to understand about this. Miku is not the artist, Miku is the tool. Miku is as capable of creating art on her own as a paint brush. THAT is why Miku is not a pop star.
@secondpersonshooter: @example1013: The "real people" are those that actually write the music and the lyrics. The actual artists that use Vocaloids as a musical medium.
This isn't a debate to say "let's just replace all singers with robots."
However the real people are not famous performers of pop music, which is the definition of being a pop star. Bieber performs music.
I am going to disagree with you here, and I don't even like vocaloid. When you listen to music studios and band label heads, they would often time refers to bands as a project as a product to be produce. That is why a lot of bands have producers. Not managers, producers because once you are produced by these labels your band is now a product. If you think about that, Vocaloid is pretty much the same.
You are perfectly free to disagree with empirical truths. Many choose to do so all the time, such as the people who don't believe in climate change or evolution. However, since your opinion has no factual basis, it is completely ignorable. Bieber is a real person who performs songs live on stage; Miku is a pre-rendered hologram.
@pr1mus: That is exactly what I've been saying this whole time. Miku is not a person.
Oh also some people have had problems with Cronusmaxes causing input delay and controller disconnects. Might not be a big deal for you, but they've been off and on banned at certain fighting game tournaments.
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