When has a lack of proper education stopped people from commenting on anything?

@shivoa: You should reread that linked page. The test subject greatly reduced their weight and the bacterial infestation of Enterobacter in their gut through a change of diet and exercise. There was no stomach stitching, no synthesized medication, no medical intervention other than a prescribed diet, and one common among everyday individuals at that.

I was blessed with a very fast metabolism. I've never had to lose weight. I'm sure that even with my acknowledgement that losing weight is a huge struggle I'm selling it short simply because I have no personal experience. But I've seen the results of unhealthy diets and immobility, and I've experienced the results of both a healthy and an unhealthy diet and of exercise and immobility.

Fat shaming is a disgrace. I have an obese very good friend and I've never once mentioned her weight. But I do worry about her. When it comes to obesity, the only thing worse than fat shaming is fat enabling. The idea that people would commit suicide over their feelings of helplessness or shame regarding their weight is awful. On the other side of the coin, we are literally encouraging diabetes, heart disease, poorer quality of life, and shortened life spans by pretending it's not a fixable issue.

People say, "But it's not so simple like that." Yes, it is. And there's a good deal of shame due to most parties but everyone is shifting it, and a portion of the medical industry is more than happy to collect the chips.

Is this comment meant for me? Why would I be quizzing people in a cancer ward about avoiding the sun?

@golguin: You should look up the link between skin cancer and UV rays. There's a lot of research on that subject. Some (who want to blame people who are not well or discard some wide definition diseases as just a lack of willpower or someone making bad choices that make it their fault what happens) might even look at this link and decide to lose their empathy.

I consider obese people the reason the human race has been so good at surviving in the past up until now.

Too bad company's spend billions on misleading and tricking people into unhealthy eating habits and exploiting a human trait that should be a positive thing. But you know, money, so fuck them guys right.

I think I'll trust the opinions of experts in the field over someone posting online.

I don't understand what you're talking about or why I would want to look up information about skin cancer. Are you sure you are quoting the right person?

Because you seem like you would criticize alcoholics for fucking up their own lives so might as well question skin cancer patients to see how much they fucked up their life too for being irresponsible.

The fact that you don't see that makes your stance on disease classifications all the more easier to understand.

@mlarrabee: You said this was a sorted thing, I linked to ongoing research that not only potentially (if confirmed) answers this forum question as to obesity as a narrow definition disease (specifically infectious) but also indicates this isn't all old news. A group of people with an infection in their gut were given a specific diet to help deal with the infection and it worked pretty well. That is a medical intervention (one not uncommon).

I come from a place where the doctors (and treatments) are all paid for by the government and treatments are all audited for results and price. We don't have as much of this concern about 'Big Pharma' or insurance companies trying to make us all dependent on medication or expensive advice we don't need. This is not a conspiracy to make people who are obese less concerned about their weight and ability to do something about it so someone can sell pills or do some surgeries that break the Hippocratic Oath. This is an issue with ongoing research that could lead to a test for obesity as an infection. You may say the prescribed treatment is a lot like the one given to obese people right now, but that doesn't change the fact that it is not a simple issue (mentally or possibly even in other organs).

Are you kidding me? Are you honestly trying to compare alcoholics and skin cancer patients in culpability?

@golguin: Oh boy, lost cause. I'll cut my losses and save myself some time.

Yes you should because you have some crazy warped sense of...I don't even know what to call it. How you would accuse me of blaming cancer victims for getting cancer goes beyond the realm of reason.

I'll continue to blame alcoholics for their own destructive life decisions unless someone grabbed a bottle and forced it down their throats. Unless that is the case it's called taking responsibility for your own actions.

nah, not a disease.

But sugar is a poison.

lol, oh man...yeah I'm def glad I quit while I was ahead.

Blame cancer victors like you or blame alcoholics. I'll go with blaming alcoholics for their actions all day.

Now I'm blaming cancer victims (I like how the skin part is left out once again) which I've never said once.....lol damn, what the hell is going on

I know I'm just enabling you to keep talking at this point so I'll stop it here. Feel free to misinterpret the comment again like with the others.

Why are people in this thread talking like mental problems can be solved by sheer willpower? There's these things called chemicals that your brain has in spades and sometimes the balance ain't right and it causes problems. But jeez suck it up, right?

Fine. You were talking about preventative measure that people can take to reduce the risk of skin cancer. I was saying that you can't prevent skin cancer so it's a bad comparison. I've had family die from cancer so it's a bit of a button for me so I'll admit I jumped the gun on you.

However, I also have experience with several family members that drank too much and caused problems for other family members so I wont retract my feelings on alcoholism.

That's the part people are hung up on. You can take very effective preventative measures to mitigate the risk of getting skin cancer. The fact that you're saying you can't prevent it is a fallacy.

@golguin: I feel I should explain here what has been going on, because I'd feel bad if you thought some other people on the internet just told you they blame skin cancer victims (note: that has not just happened here).

A major cause of skin cancer is the damage caused by UV radiation, common source: the Sun.

A lot of people choose to expose themselves to the Sun for a tan, during recreational activities, generally enjoy the warm thing that is slightly more dangerous for some parts of the world today than 100 years ago due to those pesky CFCs eating into the ozone layer.

So you can draw a link between choosing to expose yourself to far more UV rays that is required (and not using blocker whenever necessary to see that Sun) and an increased chance of ending up with skin cancer.

But no one is saying the victims should be blamed, in fact the argument being given is that this should never be done. Accidents, bad luck, genetics, free will: these all combine with the dice rolling of the universe to mean some people aren't going to have a great time. These people deserve to be helped, as best we know how to.

Alcoholism is not people just deciding to spend all their time being drunk and considering their actions and choosing to throw their life away and then repeatedly not bothering to do something about it to fix it.

If something bad happened to someone when young, combined with a mental or genetic predisposition, and now they're an alcoholic then blaming them for drinking isn't helping. This may be an extreme case, but generally you should think that blaming a victim is bad and unless you know every detail of every moment of their life (Q: are you omniscient?) then you might err on the side of giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Simply blaming an alcoholic for their current situation can be seen as on a scale of victim blaming where (at a different point on this long scale) is blaming a skin cancer sufferer for spending too much time in the rays, and that may well be why they have cancer (or might not).

Victim blaming is bad.

Can you see where this conversation went off the rails and no one was actually communicating with each other any more?

Yeah, fuck 'em.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/ama-recognizes-obesity-as-a-disease.html?_r=0

Yes, it is.

I'm at risk for various numbers of cancer simply by living in the environment. There are too many things that can cause cancer in the stuff we eat and the air we breath. You can't reduce the risk of getting skin cancer to 0%. You build up damage over the years. Skin color and genetics also play a role. Once you have it you need to get yourself treated.

With something like alcoholism you can simply not drink. If you do drink you can stop.

Oh man what is that smell coming from so many posts? Is that........ignorance?

Ugh. I know, I know, I thought I was done too until I had to see that last sentence.

Let's all ignore the mounting evidence of how alcoholism is also tied to genetics. People can have genes that will increase the chance of becoming an alcoholic. The world isn't as simple as "ok, I better stop drinking a lot or I'll become an alcoholic" because guess what? Most of those people never realize the slope to alcoholism that they're on.

There's a reason why alcoholics are the last people to realize they are alcoholic.

OK, now I'm done. I promise!

Any fan of the Varn is a friend of mine.

I think obese people are poison victims in which the poison is the farm-animal quality food they eat. I feel very sorry for obese individuals that can't afford to eat healthier and those who really want to eat better but lack the willpower after having to deal with all the other problems life throws at them.

So you're like one of those guys who loses weight and then becomes creepily obsessed with fitness eh? Like it takes over your whole personality...

Fun....

I'm not ignoring any genetic predisposition a person may have toward any given action or how the body can react differently in the presence of X substance.

I believe there is a distinct difference between substance abuse and skin cancer. I feel that the solution for dealing with each situation is a difference by orders of magnitude.

The same can be said for obesity. I am not a skinny guy. I'm 5'7" and I weight 220. I have a very slow metabolism. You may eat a 6 inch sub from Subway and call that I meal, but I cut that thing in half and eat it for 2 meals. I know plenty of people around half my weight that eat more than me. I'm sure there are various genetic reasons that cause my metabolism to be what it is, but I go to the gym to keep myself in check. When I really put my mind to it I can drop 10 pounds by incorporating more cardio into my workout routine (I mostly do heavy lifting), but I'll eventually get bored of that 2 months in and stop.

I would never say my current weight is out of my control. There are always options to fix my weight.

mental disorder

But do you even lift?

Ehh that seems like a stretch.

Obesity is not a disease. Obesity may be a symptom of something else, but it's insulting to me to call it a disease. I have a physical chronic disease. No matter what I do, there isn't anything I can do to get rid of it. I was born with it. I was unlucky with genetics. You aren't born with obesity and similarly it isn't like you can't address it. You can control what you eat. You can control how much physical activity/exercise you have. You can address it. If you want to attribute your weight/size to something beyond your control, I'm guessing that it's probably poor eating and exercise habits perhaps coupled with some sort of mental imbalance/disorder that causes you to be poor at regulating yourself (and that is your disease/disorder), but please don't call obesity a disease. People need to take responsibility for their eating habits.

Your body doesn't magically become obese by itself. This is just making me angry and I know I'm going to ramble so I'm going to cut this off. But seriously, if you want to seek some sort of comfort and justification for being obese by telling yourself it is a disease you are being irresponsible. Fix your diet, show some self restraint, and exercise. Some of us have problems that can't be fixed by just stepping up to the plate (no pun intended) and being an adult, so don't go and squander the opportunity to be healthy that some of us wish we could have.

Very well said.

I wouldn't say obsessed, but losing weight has changed my life style. It's hard to explain, but it's something I enjoy now.

Nope, living in a country where obesity is thankfully extremely rare, I'm fairly certain that it is a culturally bound syndrome. Can some people be prone to be a bit heavier? Sure, I don't have anything against that, some people are gonna be genetically slimmer or a bit stockier. Nobody is genetically going to be obese however, so I have no real time for those people who do end up that way.

The only possible exception is that their parents started them early on a shitty diet (which can form a lot of early dependencies), which is child abuse as far as I am concerned. Is it a disease? No, not a physical one at least and I don't think we should accept it as such or give it a pass. Maybe it makes me an asshole, but if we start giving people a pass on obesity and don't call them out on it, we are implicitly condoning it as a lifestyle. It's not a healthy lifestyle for yourself, but if you choose it, you should be prepared to deal with the consequences, both physical and social. It's most certainly not a healthy lifestyle for your children, which is where it should be stopped immediately.

Whether or not being fat should be classified as a disease, I don't know. I do know that being fat can cause serious long term health problems though. So in that sense I guess you could call it a disease. I would think it's more of a condition.

OP's got a classic case of blaming the victim.

As has been said, probably none of us are qualified to say whether or not it is a disease, but I think a strong case could be made that in some cases it's a mental illness at least (food addiction).

Only if being stupid is also a disease.... People are using the idea that being a fatass is a disease to continue eating cheetos, playing video games and being a fat ass.

I hate this remove all personal responsibility bullshit that's been going on for a long time now. Obesity is NOT a disease, it could be a symptom, it causes other diseases but it in itself is not a disease. The vast majority of people that are obese or overweight may have other diseases brought on by their obesity, but, and I hate to break it to you, it was their own doing. Either through ignorance or abject indifference they made themselves fat.

I accept that some people could have certain medical conditions that predispose themselves to ending up overweight, but usually this can also be managed. Only in very, very rare cases can someone truly say it wasn't their fault and they have a medical condition. Thus making obesity a symptom, these cases definitely don't even make up for 1% of the so called obesity epidemic everyone is suffering from.

This is coming from someone who wasn't obese yet, but was on my way towards it. Personally it was mostly indifference, I knew a lot of the things I was doing weren't great, I just didn't care. One day that changed, I started working out and lost a bunch of weight. Even when I was heavier I knew it was me, and I never made excuses for it. Everyone loves a scapegoat. no one wants to point the finger towards themselves anymore.

Herpies is a disease even though you basically give it to yourself through reckless habits

I think the main difference between obesity and other diseases is that you have a clear solution in front of you which requires no medical assistance or drugs, which cannot be said about most other diseases I can think of.

I hate how some people make themselves out to be victims, but in reality most of the time it's someones own doing. Like I mentioned earlier I used to be obese, and made alot of excuses of why I couldn't get the weight off. Until one day I just got tired of feeling sorry for myself.

I stopped complaining and focus on putting my efforts into getting healthy. It was tough I did it all by myself without the help of others. I started working out everyday and watching my calorie intake, and then overtime the weight just came off. I went from 330 to 210 within a year and a half.

I feel like some people limit themselves without going above and beyond, and like to throw a pity party. I've met alot of people like that in my gym, and alot of times it annoys me.

obesity is a disease cause by eating to much. the fatties love that cake.

in the same way smoking is a disease. them poor smokers smoking them dam cancer sticks they just can't help themselves and they need our sympathy.

I just wanted to quote this again, because I completely agree.

Some people have a LOT more trouble losing weight than others, and I'll be happy to admit that fact, but they still have a choice in the matter. Call it a condition, call it an addiction, but don't don't try to tell me that it's completely outside of their control.

That can't be true. That would mean things like broken bones or bee stings would be qualified as diseases too, which makes no sense.

After reading several of the posts here I still believe there's a clear distinction between diseases and injuries, and obesity falls much closer to the latter both in how it's contracted and treated.

It is not a disease.

I'll leave it up to the experts to decide.