Gordo789

@kahjah said:

@Gordo789: I remember that story and the comments eventually always seem to victim blame when allegations of sexism and racism arise. It's a damn shame that the burden of proof is almost astronomically high.

Thanks for posting it.

it seems like the dudes at the center of this were fired. It's unfortunate that the victim in that case had to go through so much to get some justice, but that's always the way.

@kahjah said:

It's good to see that people are speaking up about this in positive ways. I wonder though if this were about POC (people of color) in the gaming industry if it would have gotten this kind of traction?

There was a recent story on Kotaku that might be relevant to your interests

http://kotaku.com/5948422/serious-racism-allegations-levelled-at-video-game-developer

It's hard to say if the traction would be the same. Unlikely.

@dr_mantas said:

Just fucking stop. Let's just support these women in the game development industry. After all, this is about them.

No need to be negative, dismissive and insulting.

This is good advice for everyone. well said.

@patrickklepek thanks for the followup Patrick. Lots of dudes missed the point completely and tried to derail the discussion by nitpicking tertiary aspects of your previous story, which basically amounts to shouting down or ignoring the complaints that were being voiced.

@Dylabaloo said:

@Gordo789 said:

@Dylabaloo: so what you're saying is that in order for these grievances to be valid and worthy of discussion, they need to present them better? Sorry ladies, come back when you've got more than 140 characters of complaints!

For an article that is going to incite meaningful discussion about the subject I'd rather detailed experiences of the sexism that they are trying to make us aware of. This whole campaign is to raise awareness but where is the content, besides brief "stories". (Inverted commas because 140 characters doen't justify the term story.) The tweets could be used in the article to show the public outcry but as the basis of the whole argument, its a bit thin. This article isn't good enough from somebody that considers themselves a journalist.

yeah i get what you're saying, and apologize if my comment came off as snippy. I'd rather have the things you're talking about as well! Maybe we'll get that, it's totally worth asking for.

What I was getting at is that many people seem to be writing off the complaints of these women based on how they're being presented, which, if you would put yourself in their shoes you'd see is a shitty thing to do. Imagine if you had to put up with all kinds of horrible discrimination all the time, and when you went to complain about it a common response was, "ooooh, you're not complaining the right way... try again." That's a really sucky situation to be in.

@Dylabaloo: so what you're saying is that in order for these grievances to be valid and worthy of discussion, they need to present them better? Sorry ladies, come back when you've got more than 140 characters of complaints!

@FlarePhoenix: cool, I think we're in agreement. I don't think anyone is trying to jump to anywhere in one step. It's going to take a while, the seeds are getting sown now, and if we're lucky when my kids grow up they'll not have to worry about this shit.

@chaosnovaxz said:

@Gordo789:

It's the exception, but I don't like the idea that it should just be ignored or even laughed at whenever it does pop up. That's as bad as all the idiots in this thread essentially telling the afflicted female developers to "man up". Regardless of gender, no one should have to deal with that kind of bullshit, and anything that is unacceptable for one gender to do is also unacceptable for the other.

I agree 100%, nobody should have to deal with that kind of bullshit and it should never be ignored. It's unacceptable for men and women alike. Fortunately for men, it is the exception! That's t thing you accept, clearly, so maybe as men (I'm assuming you're a man, forgive/correct me if I'm wrong) we should have a bit of grace and class and realize that in many cases, like the ones being discussed in #1reasonwhy, women have it harder than they should. In doing so, we definitely shouldn't be marginalizing the complaints of women by presenting arguments like, "oh yeah well the same shit happens to us!" Right?

@dr_mantas said:

@Gordo789: You are free to think so, but you are wrong. Of course, to see how MUCH you're wrong you need to take a step back and think. Tell me when that happens, I'll be there to congratulate you.

It's telling that in your original argument you have to ask people to imagine a hypothetical scenario. These women aren't asking you to imagine hypothetical scenarios, this shit is happening all the time. You sort of missed the point.

@dr_mantas: no problem here, right? women's rights in the west are fine! carry on, business as usual!

dr_mantas I see what you're saying, and you can invent any number of rare hypothetical scenarios where men are discriminated against by covens of cackling women, but that's the exception rather than the rule.