Kurt Russell! YES!
groverat's forum posts
This thread was not designed to be yet another argument thread. The point-by-point rebuttal habit of Internet debate is not conducive to the kind of constructive sharing I hope this thread continues to be. Please re-read the first post.
There is nothing unethical about looking at your recent registration and posting history and realizing that your intention appears to be to argue about the recent drama. That’s not what “unethical” means. It’s not even impolite or accusatory. It’s a frank acknowledgment of available information.
You're goddam right I want hugs and high-fives instead of arguments. So give me a hug and a high-five, damnit! :)
Thank you for sharing your personal experiences! Brave and cool of you!
I’m really sorry that happened to you. Not only is it hard being broke, but being ostracized for any reason really sucks, especially for things like race, which is something you can’t control.
I’m also sorry people are sometimes shitty to you about it. It’s so easy for people to get in argument-loops that they don’t listen to other people’s experiences and take them seriously. It sucks, and it’s why I want this thread to work.
As I’ve said, I work in an inner-city middle school. Anti-white sentiment among blacks and Hispanics can flare up very high and I have no doubt the abuse you received was both classist and racial and was not your fault.
It’s very insightful of you to say, “I usually arrive at the conclusion that they must have thought I had somewhere better I could be, and they didn't like that I was using their place.”
It reminds me of a story I read with my classes sometimes. “African Morning” by Langston Hughes. I bring it out when I see that racial and class animosity building, and I think you might be able to identify with Maurai and recommend it to everyone here.
He is a biracial kid (like Langston Hughes himself) who is not loved by his white father and is rejected by both the white colonist community and the native black Africans because he belongs to neither.
Just like poor whites do not belong to the poor black/Hispanic communities and do not belong to the supposedly-privileged white wealth communities, right?
It’s part of what pisses me off about the flippant arrogance and know-it-all sarcasm from fellow feminists/liberals. They are so fired up about being right that they don’t listen and they don’t believe.
I have ideas about some of the things you brought up (like affirmative action) and how they fit into my view of kyriarchy/white-male-privilege, and all that, but this post is already too long. :)
Kick-ass post, @the_a_drain. Thanks for sharing. Everyone (hopefully) evolves over time and it's cool to see such a coherent analysis.
I am not addressing your arguments piece-by-piece, because that’s not really the point of the thread and your posting history here began yesterday and is, well, let’s call it focused on a certain, very obvious, set of issues.
The intention of this thread is not to defend Group A or Group B against assaults, but instead to discuss the ideas which undergird thinking about “social justice” as a broad term. So when you talk about what “the people who shout ‘CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE’” you are introducing an extreme caricature of someone who is not here and with whom you disagree. It would be similar to me saying “the people who shout ‘JOURNALISTIC ETHICS’” and then offering some cartoon version of people with whom I have a profound disagreement. Zero constructive dialogue comes from that, no matter its direction. That’s why it is my hope that this particular thread avoids that.
The Giant Bomb community, to which you are new, is profoundly negatively impacted by that type of “discussion”.
If we are going to introduce point-by-point debate, not only should it be measured in tone, but it should be directed at actual posters’ actual statements in this thread.
Like I said, you’re a good guy. Let’s be good guys to each other and try to be good guys in the way we talk about others, especially those who aren’t here.
Hugs and high-fives.
What is the language you would use to sell the ideas behind privilege to an audience that has been jaded against the term?
@kakamoura "Those people..." is not a rhetorical gambit welcome in this thread. Please do not do that here, because when you presume to speak to the intent and behavior of people with whom you disagree, you are over-stepping your own voice's legitimacy.
Incidentally, you did not answer the question I asked at all. Not that you have to, but you said you answered it and all you actually did was use it as a launching point for preaching. Which, again, is an unhelpful thing we shouldn't be doing in this thread.
The concept of privilege seems to be a challenge and sticking point for a lot of people, especially white males. What I am hearing from some of you, and what I myself felt when first confronted with the idea of privilege, is a feeling that acknowledging the concept of privilege was divisive and harmful, which is why the question is relevant:
- How do white males suffer in North America based on people believing in white/male privilege?
It is a very straightforward question. I found myself dodging it (in much the same way it is being dodged here) for a little while when I was first confronted with it. I found that dealing with it head-on changed my thinking about the concept and dramatically reduced my defensiveness.