End Boss Month #15: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4

Ladies and gentlemen, we are on the fifteenth day of End Boss Month. And as we reach the halfway point of this thirty-day examination of final bosses, I think it’s only fair that we take this time to look at one such adversary that holds a special place in the heart of long-time Giant Bomb visitors. I speak of the final boss of Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4. Izanami.

Hi, there. How about a handshake?

It has been my observation on the forums that, in general, a lot of people tend to view Izanami as something of a let-down. After the unveiling of the serial killer and the defeat of Ameno-sagiri, the malevolent source of fog encroaching on Inaba, the last-minute unveiling of Izanami comes as a bit of a surprise; one that’s actually easy to miss, given the very specific requirements that are necessary to unveil her. Then, with one final trip into the TV, the Investigation Team climbs Yomotsu Hirasaka and learns the whole truth before facing her down.

In more literary terms, Izanami is the goddess behind the curtain controlling the visage of the wizard that was Ameno-sagiri. And when taken at that level of value, it’s easy to understand why some might be underwhelmed. But there’s another level of depth here, just as there was in the casting of the Nyx Avatar as the final boss of Persona 3.

Some of you will probably recall the school trip to Tatsumi Port Island. And while it’s a sequence that’s mostly remembered for several characters inexplicably getting drunk off non-alcoholic beverages, and for the Persona 3 players, some bonus fan service, there’s one sequence that sometimes gets overlooked. Heck, even the anime adaptation skimmed over the scene in favor of getting to the part where everyone gets smashed. The scene I’m referring to is Mr. Edogawa’s special lecture to the class, in which he discusses the tale of Izanagi and Izanami; the ancient Japanese creation myth.

This scene is the first and only time that Izanami is ever brought up during the plot prior to the big reveal near the game’s end. But for those that don’t know their Japanese mythology or only have a fleeting interest in it (which I’m guessing is the majority of the game’s western audience), Edogawa’s lecture is a pretty big deal, as it presents a major hint of events to come.

A couple of other things to note; one is that both the protagonist and the killer, Adachi, share the same default Persona in Izanagi, though Adachi’s incarnation is a twisted version. It would not be far off to assume that, had Taro Namatame not gone off the deep end and had the chance to awaken to his own Persona, it too would have been a form of Izanagi. Further, the other prominent Personae of the central cast, such as Konohana Sakuya are figures that are also derived from either ancient Japanese myth, or from ancient Japanese history, such as Tomoe Gozen. Some of these figures are also directly involved in stories of Izanagi and Izanami.

And then there’s the confrontation with Izanami herself, who in the ancient myths got the short end of the stick. She was scorched to death giving birth to Kagutsuchi. And before Izanagi ventured into Yomi to retrieve her from the underworld, she ate the food of Yomi, causing her appearance to rot horridly and also trapping her in the realm. Izanagi, upon seeing her rotted appearance, ran away out of fear and blocked the entrance to prevent pursuit.

As you can imagine, this turn of events left Izanami incredibly bitter.

And this is her good side. (Well, her not-quite-as-bad side, anyway.)

And yet, when Izanami chooses to awaken powers in three individuals that represent aspects she’s looking for, at least two of those she selects have a Persona that represents her former love. In essence, she chooses to use Izanagi as the bar by which to measure humanity’s worth. And she wasn’t ever intending to be found out. But when cornered, she challenges her most successful “Izanagi” to a final battle.

And what a final battle it is. After flailing at Izanami ineffectively, unable to defeat her, the protagonist uses the Orb of Sight, an item crafted by Igor by the power of the Social Links, to unveil Izanami’s true, hideous form, much in the same way the light of a torch revealed what she had become to Izanagi.

And while the battle’s grand finale takes its design cues from Persona 3, in pitting the protagonist alone against the boss in order to deliver the final blow, it’s fitting that it occurs as it does. Through his Social Links, the protagonist is given the power of Izanagi-no-Okami, and defeats her through the use of the skill Myriad Truths. He literally defeats her with truth itself.

And what does Izanami do when she’s thwarted? She congratulates him and the others. No spite, no petty diatribes. She takes her defeat graciously, which is really more than can be said for most villains in video games. That she so willingly accepts her defeat at the hands of a metaphysical representation of the god that spurned her and left her trapped in Yomi is even more impressive.

There’s more that could possibly be read into this, but it’s probably best to leave the discussion here. However, hopefully this gives at least some of you a new perspective on a boss that some in the forums found superfluous. Till next time!

P.S.: Oh, and in case you didn't know, her English voice is performed by the same actress that voices Nanako. Wrap your head around that one, while you're at it.

35 Comments
36 Comments
Posted by Hailinel

Ladies and gentlemen, we are on the fifteenth day of End Boss Month. And as we reach the halfway point of this thirty-day examination of final bosses, I think it’s only fair that we take this time to look at one such adversary that holds a special place in the heart of long-time Giant Bomb visitors. I speak of the final boss of Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4. Izanami.

Hi, there. How about a handshake?

It has been my observation on the forums that, in general, a lot of people tend to view Izanami as something of a let-down. After the unveiling of the serial killer and the defeat of Ameno-sagiri, the malevolent source of fog encroaching on Inaba, the last-minute unveiling of Izanami comes as a bit of a surprise; one that’s actually easy to miss, given the very specific requirements that are necessary to unveil her. Then, with one final trip into the TV, the Investigation Team climbs Yomotsu Hirasaka and learns the whole truth before facing her down.

In more literary terms, Izanami is the goddess behind the curtain controlling the visage of the wizard that was Ameno-sagiri. And when taken at that level of value, it’s easy to understand why some might be underwhelmed. But there’s another level of depth here, just as there was in the casting of the Nyx Avatar as the final boss of Persona 3.

Some of you will probably recall the school trip to Tatsumi Port Island. And while it’s a sequence that’s mostly remembered for several characters inexplicably getting drunk off non-alcoholic beverages, and for the Persona 3 players, some bonus fan service, there’s one sequence that sometimes gets overlooked. Heck, even the anime adaptation skimmed over the scene in favor of getting to the part where everyone gets smashed. The scene I’m referring to is Mr. Edogawa’s special lecture to the class, in which he discusses the tale of Izanagi and Izanami; the ancient Japanese creation myth.

This scene is the first and only time that Izanami is ever brought up during the plot prior to the big reveal near the game’s end. But for those that don’t know their Japanese mythology or only have a fleeting interest in it (which I’m guessing is the majority of the game’s western audience), Edogawa’s lecture is a pretty big deal, as it presents a major hint of events to come.

A couple of other things to note; one is that both the protagonist and the killer, Adachi, share the same default Persona in Izanagi, though Adachi’s incarnation is a twisted version. It would not be far off to assume that, had Taro Namatame not gone off the deep end and had the chance to awaken to his own Persona, it too would have been a form of Izanagi. Further, the other prominent Personae of the central cast, such as Konohana Sakuya are figures that are also derived from either ancient Japanese myth, or from ancient Japanese history, such as Tomoe Gozen. Some of these figures are also directly involved in stories of Izanagi and Izanami.

And then there’s the confrontation with Izanami herself, who in the ancient myths got the short end of the stick. She was scorched to death giving birth to Kagutsuchi. And before Izanagi ventured into Yomi to retrieve her from the underworld, she ate the food of Yomi, causing her appearance to rot horridly and also trapping her in the realm. Izanagi, upon seeing her rotted appearance, ran away out of fear and blocked the entrance to prevent pursuit.

As you can imagine, this turn of events left Izanami incredibly bitter.

And this is her good side. (Well, her not-quite-as-bad side, anyway.)

And yet, when Izanami chooses to awaken powers in three individuals that represent aspects she’s looking for, at least two of those she selects have a Persona that represents her former love. In essence, she chooses to use Izanagi as the bar by which to measure humanity’s worth. And she wasn’t ever intending to be found out. But when cornered, she challenges her most successful “Izanagi” to a final battle.

And what a final battle it is. After flailing at Izanami ineffectively, unable to defeat her, the protagonist uses the Orb of Sight, an item crafted by Igor by the power of the Social Links, to unveil Izanami’s true, hideous form, much in the same way the light of a torch revealed what she had become to Izanagi.

And while the battle’s grand finale takes its design cues from Persona 3, in pitting the protagonist alone against the boss in order to deliver the final blow, it’s fitting that it occurs as it does. Through his Social Links, the protagonist is given the power of Izanagi-no-Okami, and defeats her through the use of the skill Myriad Truths. He literally defeats her with truth itself.

And what does Izanami do when she’s thwarted? She congratulates him and the others. No spite, no petty diatribes. She takes her defeat graciously, which is really more than can be said for most villains in video games. That she so willingly accepts her defeat at the hands of a metaphysical representation of the god that spurned her and left her trapped in Yomi is even more impressive.

There’s more that could possibly be read into this, but it’s probably best to leave the discussion here. However, hopefully this gives at least some of you a new perspective on a boss that some in the forums found superfluous. Till next time!

P.S.: Oh, and in case you didn't know, her English voice is performed by the same actress that voices Nanako. Wrap your head around that one, while you're at it.

Posted by Video_Game_King

@Hailinel said:

In more literary terms, Izanami is the goddess behind the curtain controlling the visage of the wizard that was Ameno-sagiri.

That probably explains why their dialogue was pretty much the same :P.

@Hailinel said:

There’s more that could possibly be read into this

Especially since a few things were lost in translation (essentially, Myriad Truths was originally a reference to that "1000 deaths/1500 lives" thing).

Posted by Eirikr

It's worth noting that Izanami's name means "She-who-invites" (and Izanagi too, gender-switched). Guess who is the one to welcome all those three dudes to Inaba? Magatsu Izanagi is probably related to the birth of Yaso-Magatsuhi and Ou-Magatsuhi, and the uncleanliness as a result of visiting Yomi. I'm not sure about Namatame's Kuni-no-sagiri, that god is pretty damn obscure and is actually a grandson of I&I. 

Posted by Soren

Also worth noting would be the similitude between the Izanagi/Izanami myth and the story of Orpheus and Eurydice.

Edited by Eirikr
Posted by MikeGosot
@Hailinel said:

P.S.: Oh, and in case you didn't know, her English voice is performed by the same actress that voices Nanako. Wrap your head around that one, while you're at it.

Fuck you! D:
Posted by Hailinel

@Video_Game_King said:

Especially since a few things were lost in translation (essentially, Myriad Truths was originally a reference to that "1000 deaths/1500 lives" thing).

That's another point I had considered bringing up in the post, but I felt that the explanation was getting a bit long-winded for the blog's intent and felt that it would be best covered here in the comments, so I'm glad that you brought it up.

@Eirikr said:

It's worth noting that Izanami's name means "She-who-invites" (and Izanagi too, gender-switched). Guess who is the one to welcome all those three dudes to Inaba? Magatsu Izanagi is probably related to the birth of Yaso-Magatsuhi and Ou-Magatsuhi, and the uncleanliness as a result of visiting Yomi. I'm not sure about Namatame's Kuni-no-sagiri, that god is pretty damn obscure and is actually a grandson of I&I.

Thanks, as always, for digging deeper into the obscure. I didn't know those particular facts.

@Soren said:

Also worth noting would be the similitude between the Izanagi/Izanami myth and the story of Orpheus and Eurydice.

Indeed. It's striking how similar the legends the team behind P3 and P4 chose to represent the protagonists' Personae really are.

Posted by Hailinel

@MikeGosot said:

@Hailinel said:

P.S.: Oh, and in case you didn't know, her English voice is performed by the same actress that voices Nanako. Wrap your head around that one, while you're at it.

Fuck you! D:

Another satisfied customer!

Posted by Video_Game_King

@MikeGosot said:

@Hailinel said:

P.S.: Oh, and in case you didn't know, her English voice is performed by the same actress that voices Nanako. Wrap your head around that one, while you're at it.

Fuck you! D:

You think that's bad? The voice of Teddie? Chickenhead. TRY SLEEPING TONIGHT.

Posted by MikeGosot
@Video_Game_King said:

@MikeGosot said:

@Hailinel said:

P.S.: Oh, and in case you didn't know, her English voice is performed by the same actress that voices Nanako. Wrap your head around that one, while you're at it.

Fuck you! D:

You think that's bad? The voice of Teddie? Chickenhead. TRY SLEEPING TONIGHT.

Teddie sucks. And Chickenhead is cute.
Posted by SpunkyHePanda

For me, Izanami was only a let down because of Ameno-sagiri, who I felt was thrust in there pretty suddenly and awkwardly. It made Izanami (who is actually a cooler villain) and her motivations feel redundant. Also, he gets in there before there's any closure with the Adachi storyline, so he kind of ruins that too. Oh, AND he completely obscures the true ending by making the player assume he was behind everything, making it nearly impossible to discover without using a guide. In short, Ameno-sagiri is everything that's wrong with the end of that game.

Edited by Encephalon

I was kinda bummed when Ameno-sagiri showed up, because it was the exact sort of "actually god is the villain lol" moment that I dread in this sort of game.

Then Izanami showed up. She occupies pretty much the same role as Ameno-sagiri, in the narrative, but I was actually pretty okay with Izanami, for some reason. I'm still unsure if this is because she was in the game since the beginning and therefore seems like less of an asspull, or because I'd already been inoculated by Ameno-sagiri.

Posted by Juno500

More obscure trivia: Izanami is actually the title character of the franchise.

"Shin Megami Tensei" translates roughly to "True Resurrection of the Goddess". In the very first Megami Tensei game, one of the party members is Izanami reincarnated, and as such is the namesake of the entire franchise.

Posted by Video_Game_King

@MikeGosot:

But that means Chickenhead is a Shadow.

I look forward to our next meeting.
Posted by Hailinel

@Juno500 said:

More obscure trivia: Izanami is actually the title character of the franchise.

"Shin Megami Tensei" translates roughly to "True Resurrection of the Goddess". In the very first Megami Tensei game, one of the party members is Izanami reincarnated, and as such is the namesake of the entire franchise.

I've at times wondered if the casting of her as the villain of Persona 4 was in any way influenced by her importance in the original Megami Tensei, but then again, Megami Tensei does have a knack for reusing and recasting deities in surprising ways.

@SpunkyHePanda said:

For me, Izanami was only a let down because of Ameno-sagiri, who I felt was thrust in there pretty suddenly and awkwardly. It made Izanami (who is actually a cooler villain) and her motivations feel redundant. Also, he gets in there before there's any closure with the Adachi storyline, so he kind of ruins that too. Oh, AND he completely obscures the true ending by making the player assume he was behind everything, making it nearly impossible to discover without using a guide. In short, Ameno-sagiri is everything that's wrong with the end of that game.

The difficulty of actually confronting Izanami from a gameplay perspective without a guide was the point, in a way. She doesn't want to be found; she used her giant smoke-machine/eyeball to take the fall for her. That the player has to find the true ending by refusing to let things end and investigate further seems natural for the way that the story was written. Still, Ameno-sagiri showing up and going "O HAI" did feel a bit shoehorned.

Posted by Commisar123

Ah yes the infamous reveal, I had a tough time with this one

Posted by Turambar
@Hailinel said:

The difficulty of actually confronting Izanami from a gameplay perspective without a guide was the point, in a way. She doesn't want to be found; she used her giant smoke-machine/eyeball to take the fall for her. That the player has to find the true ending by refusing to let things end and investigate further seems natural for the way that the story was written. Still, Ameno-sagiri showing up and going "O HAI" did feel a bit shoehorned.

The bigger problem is that the path to revealing her is awkward to say the least.  Even if you suspect there is someone greater behind it all, going to the stage that begins that path, Junes, feels like such a stretch.  I would have preferred if it started with a conversation with Igor or something, where Margaret blocks the entrance to the Velvet room until you've spoken to all your S.Link npcs.
Edited by SpunkyHePanda

@Hailinel said:

@SpunkyHePanda said:

For me, Izanami was only a let down because of Ameno-sagiri, who I felt was thrust in there pretty suddenly and awkwardly. It made Izanami (who is actually a cooler villain) and her motivations feel redundant. Also, he gets in there before there's any closure with the Adachi storyline, so he kind of ruins that too. Oh, AND he completely obscures the true ending by making the player assume he was behind everything, making it nearly impossible to discover without using a guide. In short, Ameno-sagiri is everything that's wrong with the end of that game.

The difficulty of actually confronting Izanami from a gameplay perspective without a guide was the point, in a way. She doesn't want to be found; she used her giant smoke-machine/eyeball to take the fall for her. That the player has to find the true ending by refusing to let things end and investigate further seems natural for the way that the story was written. Still, Ameno-sagiri showing up and going "O HAI" did feel a bit shoehorned.

But there's really no reason to investigate anymore. Everything appears to be solved. Once a god gets involved, that pretty much puts a bow on the whole thing. The biggest question at that point seems to be "Who started the rumors in the first place?", which is such a non-mystery. I think they needed to give the player more to go on than that. If there had been no Ameno-sagiri, you'd have exactly that: "Who's behind the Midnight Channel and TV world?"

Posted by Video_Game_King

@SpunkyHePanda said:

If there had been no Ameno-sagiri, you'd have exactly that: "Who's behind the Midnight Channel and TV world?"

I'm guessing it was slightly clearer in Japanese, since Ameno-sagiri means divine fog. That would either be a crappy answer to the mystery ("so the fog was creating this fog?") or some incentive to dig deeper ("wait, the gods are involved in this? What the shit?").

Posted by MikeGosot
@Video_Game_King said:

@MikeGosot:

But that means Chickenhead is a Shadow.

I look forward to our next meeting.
Let's suppose that Chickenhead is MY shadow. Then you're my persona? Also, where does CHickenhad comes from?
Posted by Video_Game_King

@MikeGosot:

No, I am not your Persona, because I have a Persona (I've faced Shadow Me) and Personas can't have Personas. I think there's a rule about that. As for the ultimate origins of Chickenhead, I covered the hell out of that some time ago.

Posted by MikeGosot
@Video_Game_King said:

@MikeGosot:

No, I am not your Persona, because I have a Persona (I've faced Shadow Me) and Personas can't have Personas. I think there's a rule about that. As for the ultimate origins of Chickenhead, I covered the hell out of that some time ago.

Why shadow can have Personas and Personas can't have Personas?
Posted by Video_Game_King

@MikeGosot:

Because a Persona is a mask, and a mask wearing a mask is stupid and unheard of. Why do you think you could only wear one mask at a time in Majora's Mask?

Posted by MikeGosot
@Video_Game_King said:

@MikeGosot:

Because a Persona is a mask, and a mask wearing a mask is stupid and unheard of. Why do you think you could only wear one mask at a time in Majora's Mask?

Because Link is dumb and can't put many masks?
Posted by Video_Game_King

@MikeGosot:

Nope. It's because masks can't wear masks. Yu may be able to summon a shitload of Personas, but none of them were ever able to summon their own Personas.

Posted by MikeGosot
@Video_Game_King said:

@MikeGosot:

Nope. It's because masks can't wear masks. Yu may be able to summon a shitload of Personas, but none of them were ever able to summon their own Personas.

...Yet.
Posted by Video_Game_King

@MikeGosot:

In order for that to happen, though, you'd need a Shadow Persona, which is getting far too meta to keep track of. Also, Philemon would probably kick you in the nuts for suggesting such lunacy.

Posted by Hailinel

@Turambar said:

@Hailinel said:

The difficulty of actually confronting Izanami from a gameplay perspective without a guide was the point, in a way. She doesn't want to be found; she used her giant smoke-machine/eyeball to take the fall for her. That the player has to find the true ending by refusing to let things end and investigate further seems natural for the way that the story was written. Still, Ameno-sagiri showing up and going "O HAI" did feel a bit shoehorned.

The bigger problem is that the path to revealing her is awkward to say the least. Even if you suspect there is someone greater behind it all, going to the stage that begins that path, Junes, feels like such a stretch. I would have preferred if it started with a conversation with Igor or something, where Margaret blocks the entrance to the Velvet room until you've spoken to all your S.Link npcs.

Before VGK runs another thread completely off of the rails again...

You're not wrong. They definitely could have maintained the mystery while making the discovery of the true ending less obtuse.

@SpunkyHePanda said:

@Hailinel said:

@SpunkyHePanda said:

For me, Izanami was only a let down because of Ameno-sagiri, who I felt was thrust in there pretty suddenly and awkwardly. It made Izanami (who is actually a cooler villain) and her motivations feel redundant. Also, he gets in there before there's any closure with the Adachi storyline, so he kind of ruins that too. Oh, AND he completely obscures the true ending by making the player assume he was behind everything, making it nearly impossible to discover without using a guide. In short, Ameno-sagiri is everything that's wrong with the end of that game.

The difficulty of actually confronting Izanami from a gameplay perspective without a guide was the point, in a way. She doesn't want to be found; she used her giant smoke-machine/eyeball to take the fall for her. That the player has to find the true ending by refusing to let things end and investigate further seems natural for the way that the story was written. Still, Ameno-sagiri showing up and going "O HAI" did feel a bit shoehorned.

But there's really no reason to investigate anymore. Everything appears to be solved. Once a god gets involved, that pretty much puts a bow on the whole thing. The biggest question at that point seems to be "Who started the rumors in the first place?", which is such a non-mystery. I think they needed to give the player more to go on than that. If there had been no Ameno-sagiri, you'd have exactly that: "Who's behind the Midnight Channel and TV world?"

Not really. Like you said, the lingering question of where the rumor started was left unanswered. But given the events that had transpired, that lingering question is a pretty thick thread to just leave hanging.

Posted by SpunkyHePanda

@Hailinel said:

@SpunkyHePanda said:

@Hailinel said:

@SpunkyHePanda said:

For me, Izanami was only a let down because of Ameno-sagiri, who I felt was thrust in there pretty suddenly and awkwardly. It made Izanami (who is actually a cooler villain) and her motivations feel redundant. Also, he gets in there before there's any closure with the Adachi storyline, so he kind of ruins that too. Oh, AND he completely obscures the true ending by making the player assume he was behind everything, making it nearly impossible to discover without using a guide. In short, Ameno-sagiri is everything that's wrong with the end of that game.

The difficulty of actually confronting Izanami from a gameplay perspective without a guide was the point, in a way. She doesn't want to be found; she used her giant smoke-machine/eyeball to take the fall for her. That the player has to find the true ending by refusing to let things end and investigate further seems natural for the way that the story was written. Still, Ameno-sagiri showing up and going "O HAI" did feel a bit shoehorned.

But there's really no reason to investigate anymore. Everything appears to be solved. Once a god gets involved, that pretty much puts a bow on the whole thing. The biggest question at that point seems to be "Who started the rumors in the first place?", which is such a non-mystery. I think they needed to give the player more to go on than that. If there had been no Ameno-sagiri, you'd have exactly that: "Who's behind the Midnight Channel and TV world?"

Not really. Like you said, the lingering question of where the rumor started was left unanswered. But given the events that had transpired, that lingering question is a pretty thick thread to just leave hanging.

Some kid stumbled upon it. Or it started as a dumb urban legend and Ameno-sagiri made it true. Or Ameno-sagiri turned into a person and started the rumor himself. There are enough plausible explanations that fit in with everything else that it just seems irrelevant.

Posted by Video_Game_King

@SpunkyHePanda:

What about the powers, though? None of that accounts for why Yu/Adachi/Namatame got those strange powers. That's a pretty big plot hole to leave hanging, or at least something that demands an explanation.

Posted by SpunkyHePanda

@Video_Game_King said:

@SpunkyHePanda:

What about the powers, though? None of that accounts for why Yu/Adachi/Namatame got those strange powers. That's a pretty big plot hole to leave hanging, or at least something that demands an explanation.

That's true, I forgot about that. Still, Ameno-sagiri threw out such vague, philisophical gobbledygook that I'm sure you could find a motivation for him in there somewhere.

Posted by Hailinel

@SpunkyHePanda said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@SpunkyHePanda:

What about the powers, though? None of that accounts for why Yu/Adachi/Namatame got those strange powers. That's a pretty big plot hole to leave hanging, or at least something that demands an explanation.

That's true, I forgot about that. Still, Ameno-sagiri threw out such vague, philisophical gobbledygook that I'm sure you could find a motivation for him in there somewhere.

Motivation doesn't equal capability, though. Nor does Ameno-sagiri ever bother to mention aspects such as why Yu, Adachi, and Namatame were hand-picked.

Ameno-sagiri is an entity of purpose without true motive. That being the purpose to fulfill the motive of something else.

Edited by SpunkyHePanda

@Hailinel said:

@SpunkyHePanda said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@SpunkyHePanda:

What about the powers, though? None of that accounts for why Yu/Adachi/Namatame got those strange powers. That's a pretty big plot hole to leave hanging, or at least something that demands an explanation.

That's true, I forgot about that. Still, Ameno-sagiri threw out such vague, philisophical gobbledygook that I'm sure you could find a motivation for him in there somewhere.

Motivation doesn't equal capability, though. Nor does Ameno-sagiri ever bother to mention aspects such as why Yu, Adachi, and Namatame were hand-picked.

Ameno-sagiri is an entity of purpose without true motive. That being the purpose to fulfill the motive of something else.

I get that, but this is all stuff you find out after the fact. He doesn't spell out why those three were picked, but if I remember correctly, he explains why the Midnight Channel exists. And it's not too hard to realize those three kept the cycle of the Midnight Channel going. An explanation could be made.

Man, I really don't even care that much about the true ending being obtuse or whatever. I'm way more bothered by him messing up Adachi's arc and Izanami's reveal. Screw that guy.

Posted by Hailinel

@SpunkyHePanda said:

@Hailinel said:

@SpunkyHePanda said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@SpunkyHePanda:

What about the powers, though? None of that accounts for why Yu/Adachi/Namatame got those strange powers. That's a pretty big plot hole to leave hanging, or at least something that demands an explanation.

That's true, I forgot about that. Still, Ameno-sagiri threw out such vague, philisophical gobbledygook that I'm sure you could find a motivation for him in there somewhere.

Motivation doesn't equal capability, though. Nor does Ameno-sagiri ever bother to mention aspects such as why Yu, Adachi, and Namatame were hand-picked.

Ameno-sagiri is an entity of purpose without true motive. That being the purpose to fulfill the motive of something else.

I get that, but this is all stuff you find out after the fact. He doesn't spell out why those three were picked, but if I remember correctly, he explains why the Midnight Channel exists. And it's not too hard to realize those three kept the cycle of the Midnight Channel going. An explanation could be made.

Man, I really don't even care that much about the true ending being obtuse or whatever. I'm way more bothered by him messing up Adachi's arc and Izanami's reveal. Screw that guy.

Ameno-sagiri may have stated reasons for the Midnight Channel's existence, but at the same time, taking anything that giant eyeball says at face value is a poor idea. His purpose is to obscure the truth.

And to be fair, Adachi really had nowhere else to go. He was cornered and beaten. Even if Ameno-sagiri hadn't appeared, Adachi would have likely still been dragged out of the TV World and into the arms of the police. His arc was, for all intents and purposes, over before Ameno-sagiri made his appearance.

Posted by metalsnakezero

It is a interesting villain when you look at it more deeply. I wonder what twist they have with her in the P4G

since Maria is involved in some way

Posted by Hailinel

@metalsnakezero said:

It is a interesting villain when you look at it more deeply. I wonder what twist they have with her in the P4G

since Maria is involved in some way

I look forward to finding that out.