Soul Calibur V: Why the Hate?

Holy Christ.  The existence of Soul Calibur V has been officially known for about one day now, and people are already questioning it.  Mainly, why does it need to exist, why is Namco still wasting their time with these games, and will Ivy's back still be able to support the increasing weight of her...assets.

 It's a fair question.

But what are we complaining about?


What do we actually know about the game so far?

  • It's Soul Calibur, which means that the game will likely involve weapon-based fighting in 3D arenas.
  • The game takes place seventeen years after Soul Calibur IV and will have a largely all new roster.
  • Siegfried and Nightmare are returning.
  • Sophitia's son Patroklos is a new member of the roster and will have a fighting style based off of hers.
  • Namco Bandai can't decide if "Soul Calibur" is one word or two.
  • The create-a-fighter system is returning.
  • There may possibly be a guest character from another franchise, which the developer is neither confirming nor denying.

What can be inferred?

  • At least some of the newcomers (like the aforementioned Patroklos) will have movesets based on retired fighters.
  • There's a possibility that Ivy may not even be in this game for people to mock.
  • The game will more or less play like past Soul Calibur games.
  • Ivy or no Ivy, breasts will in all likelihood bounce.

What does this all add up to?

Who knows?  Other than it being more Soul Calibur with a revamped roster, I haven't got a goddamn clue.  And frankly, neither does anyone else.  All I know is that I enjoyed the heck out of Soul Calibur II, was largely disappointed by Soul Calibur III, and Soul Calibur IV, while a step up from III, wasn't as good as SCII.  In short, I know it's more Soul Calibur.  And despite the latter entries not living up to the majesty of the second (or to some, the first), that's not inherently a bad thing.  I mean, no, Soul Calibur IV isn't the best game in the series, but only recently I was at a friend's apartment, playing it with a group and having a grand old time.  Flaws aside, it's not a bad game.

You want to know what a bad game is?  Mortal Kombat: Armageddon.

 So many characters.  So much shit.

How many of you have actually played this game?  This, more than any other fighting game I have ever played, felt like nothing more than the developer throwing in the towel.  A ludicrous number of fighters piled onto a flawed combat system with some of the most pitiful character balance you'll ever see in a major fighting game release.  Armageddon is a piece of shit; one that left me with no hope of the series ever recovering.  And MK vs. DC felt like a desperate grasp for anything resembling relevance.

Then Mortal Kombat happened.

 OH MY GOD I'M SORRY SHAO KAHN PLEASE DON'T KILL ME.
Redemption, just like that.  Not that the game is perfect; Shao Kahn's boss A.I. is so infuriating it almost takes the fun out of the otherwise excellent story mode.  But my point is that even though Mortal Kombat was at its lowest point, the developer came back and managed to deliver something that's actually fun, plays well, and lives up to the legacy of the first three games.  Who's to say that Soul Calibur V won't also be a return to form?

That's not to say that the game will be.  With the past disappointments, it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking things will only get worse.  And they certainly could.  But given what little we know about the game and what heights the series has seen in the past, it seems unreasonable to start the dog pile before we've seen anything resembling gameplay footage.  The developer should be allowed to show their hand before we call them out.

So while some may remain content to roll their eyes, I'm looking forward to seeing what Namco has up their sleeves this time.  While it's possible that the game may once again have the feeling of treading water, it's equally possible that they're cooking something up that's just as good as, if not better than Soul Calibur II.  There are no guarantees, but I'm willing to at least give them the benefit of the doubt.  Until then, I'll be left wondering, and thinking deep thoughts.

 Like how the Red Dead Redemption "ninja cougar" joke could be applied to a Taki that's seventeen years older.
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Posted by Hailinel

Holy Christ.  The existence of Soul Calibur V has been officially known for about one day now, and people are already questioning it.  Mainly, why does it need to exist, why is Namco still wasting their time with these games, and will Ivy's back still be able to support the increasing weight of her...assets.

 It's a fair question.

But what are we complaining about?


What do we actually know about the game so far?

  • It's Soul Calibur, which means that the game will likely involve weapon-based fighting in 3D arenas.
  • The game takes place seventeen years after Soul Calibur IV and will have a largely all new roster.
  • Siegfried and Nightmare are returning.
  • Sophitia's son Patroklos is a new member of the roster and will have a fighting style based off of hers.
  • Namco Bandai can't decide if "Soul Calibur" is one word or two.
  • The create-a-fighter system is returning.
  • There may possibly be a guest character from another franchise, which the developer is neither confirming nor denying.

What can be inferred?

  • At least some of the newcomers (like the aforementioned Patroklos) will have movesets based on retired fighters.
  • There's a possibility that Ivy may not even be in this game for people to mock.
  • The game will more or less play like past Soul Calibur games.
  • Ivy or no Ivy, breasts will in all likelihood bounce.

What does this all add up to?

Who knows?  Other than it being more Soul Calibur with a revamped roster, I haven't got a goddamn clue.  And frankly, neither does anyone else.  All I know is that I enjoyed the heck out of Soul Calibur II, was largely disappointed by Soul Calibur III, and Soul Calibur IV, while a step up from III, wasn't as good as SCII.  In short, I know it's more Soul Calibur.  And despite the latter entries not living up to the majesty of the second (or to some, the first), that's not inherently a bad thing.  I mean, no, Soul Calibur IV isn't the best game in the series, but only recently I was at a friend's apartment, playing it with a group and having a grand old time.  Flaws aside, it's not a bad game.

You want to know what a bad game is?  Mortal Kombat: Armageddon.

 So many characters.  So much shit.

How many of you have actually played this game?  This, more than any other fighting game I have ever played, felt like nothing more than the developer throwing in the towel.  A ludicrous number of fighters piled onto a flawed combat system with some of the most pitiful character balance you'll ever see in a major fighting game release.  Armageddon is a piece of shit; one that left me with no hope of the series ever recovering.  And MK vs. DC felt like a desperate grasp for anything resembling relevance.

Then Mortal Kombat happened.

 OH MY GOD I'M SORRY SHAO KAHN PLEASE DON'T KILL ME.
Redemption, just like that.  Not that the game is perfect; Shao Kahn's boss A.I. is so infuriating it almost takes the fun out of the otherwise excellent story mode.  But my point is that even though Mortal Kombat was at its lowest point, the developer came back and managed to deliver something that's actually fun, plays well, and lives up to the legacy of the first three games.  Who's to say that Soul Calibur V won't also be a return to form?

That's not to say that the game will be.  With the past disappointments, it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking things will only get worse.  And they certainly could.  But given what little we know about the game and what heights the series has seen in the past, it seems unreasonable to start the dog pile before we've seen anything resembling gameplay footage.  The developer should be allowed to show their hand before we call them out.

So while some may remain content to roll their eyes, I'm looking forward to seeing what Namco has up their sleeves this time.  While it's possible that the game may once again have the feeling of treading water, it's equally possible that they're cooking something up that's just as good as, if not better than Soul Calibur II.  There are no guarantees, but I'm willing to at least give them the benefit of the doubt.  Until then, I'll be left wondering, and thinking deep thoughts.

 Like how the Red Dead Redemption "ninja cougar" joke could be applied to a Taki that's seventeen years older.
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Edited by Devil240Z

I really hope its like SC 3. I love the RTS mode it had. 


I think IV was worse than 3 because it was missing the RTS mode. Which basically makes the Create-a-character meaningful. 
Posted by LordXavierBritish

Did you just write an entire blog about the people complaining about the game that has been officially announced for less than a day? :U


Also I'm kind of worried because one of the first things they decided they needed to announce immediately is that guest characters will be appearing which is telling me it is quite possible they haven't learned anything from their past mistakes.
Posted by Hailinel
@Devil240Z said:
" I really hope its like SC 3. I love the RTS mode it had. 

I think IV was worse than 3 because it was missing the RTS mode. Which basically makes the Create-a-character meaningful. 
"
I'd have liked to have played more of that mode in SCIII, but the glitch associated with that mode that threatened to nuke memory cards really put me off it.
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Posted by bartok

The last couple of Soul Caliber games have been less then stellar so people are skeptical of a quality sequel.

Edited by RecSpec

The RTS mode in SC3 was pretty amazing.
Also, the first things they said is that there will be online, guest characters, and create a character.
Nothing about the fighting game itself, just the extra features. Namco is treating this like a joke.


Edit: So they have confirmed that the roster will be mostly new folks? That's a pretty ballsy gamble there, worked so well for Street Fighter.
Posted by Devil240Z
@Hailinel said:
" @Devil240Z said:
" I really hope its like SC 3. I love the RTS mode it had. 

I think IV was worse than 3 because it was missing the RTS mode. Which basically makes the Create-a-character meaningful. 
"
I'd have liked to have played more of that mode in SCIII, but the glitch associated with that mode that threatened to nuke memory cards really put me off it. "
Yup, That totally happened to me. 
Posted by Hailinel
@LordXavierBritish: Yeah, pretty much.

@bartok: Perhaps, but I'd argue that SCIV was still fun and far from terrible.
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Posted by Enigma777

I haven't really seen any hate for this game...

Posted by Brendan

This is the kind of thing I would have written if I could put any more effort into it than just saying "Bah!".

Posted by kingzetta

same reason people are against MK
It's a fighting game not made by Capcom.

Posted by MEATBALL

I haven't seen any hate, but then I haven't paid a whole lot of attention. Personally I'm really hoping Soul Calibur V will be awesome, the series hasn't done a whole lot for me since Soul Calibur II and I'd love to see Namco manage to really bring it back.

Posted by BraveToaster

I had no idea that it was generating hate. I love me some Soul Calibur. I hope Cervantes returns.

Posted by Aarny91

The only real interest I have in Soul Calibur games is to see how massive they can make the breasts each game.

Edited by Cornman89

Really? Huh. I wasn't aware that people hated this game. But then it's a fighting game, so of course I don't know shit about it. All I know about Soul Calibur is that there's a ton of boobs in it. Seriously. For me, the most interesting thing about the franchise has been its art, so I guess its increasing crassness is more important to me than to people who actually like fighting games.

I guess I just wish whoever designs these characters would dial it back a bit. Because unlike Mortal Kombat--which is basically a junior high notebook scribble given form--I actually think there's a kind of beauty in Soul Calibur's aesthetic, or something approaching beauty, anyway; but it gets buried beneath this layer of juvenile bullshit. And I'll never get past it, as long as I live.

In general, I'm incredibly put off by games that are overly exploitative in their rendering of women--but to be fair, Soul Calibur won't be the first fighting game to fit that bill. Hell, Ivy has nothing on some of the Mortal Kombat ladies, even on a cold day. I think my prudishness is getting in the way of me enjoying fighting games. Oh wait, no, it's my inability to execute button combos. Yeah, that's it. Just ignore me.

Posted by Beaudacious

NO IVY boobs no sale, maybe ivy's daughter? Kinky?

Posted by Freezer_Burn
@Hailinel: That was the entire reason I gave up on SC3. I enjoyed it immensely, but my will was broken after that happened. But for SC5? I'm totally willing to give it a chance. I'm hopeful for redemption, but "guest characters" isn't a wonderful start. Maybe they'll have someone who fits better than Vader/Yoda.
Posted by Tuddlesworth

More Soul Calibur is never a bad thing. I suppose I should go knock on wood.

Posted by Landon

Soul Calibur 4 sucked.

Posted by ReyGitano

Where's the hate? I haven't seen it yet. All I know is that I hope to see more of a return to the first and second Soul Calibur.

I'm also interested to see if they implement a new Boob physics engine and what happens to Raphael this time. Maybe now he's a werewolf.
I demand very little from my Soul Calibur games... Oh and get rid of that stupid character creation system with items giving bonuses so my characters don't look like freaking clowns.
Posted by Hailinel
@RecSpec said:
" The RTS mode in SC3 was pretty amazing.
Also, the first things they said is that there will be online, guest characters, and create a character.
Nothing about the fighting game itself, just the extra features. Namco is treating this like a joke.

Edit: So they have confirmed that the roster will be mostly new folks? That's a pretty ballsy gamble there, worked so well for Street Fighter.
"
Yes.  SInce the game is set seventeen years after SCIV, they're apparently taking the opportunity to revamp the roster.  So Patroklos will be what I imagine is the Sophitia stand-in, and other characters are likely to be similarly replaced.  We'll see how it goes, though.

@Enigma777: 
@MEATBALL: 
@Axxol: Let's just say that I've seen some surprisingly abrasive comments about the game given that it was only unveiled less than a day ago.  Some people seem to already be jumping to conclusions about it.

@Cornman89: As juvenile as it may be, I really don't have a problem with it.  I mean, is it excessive?  Yes.  Does it need to be in there?  No.  But then I'm not one to be offended easily by such content.  I'd say I've cringed a lot more at some of the X-Rays in Mortal Kombat than I have at the exaggerated physiques of Soul Calibur's female characters.
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Edited by SlightConfuse

 
i enjoyed the RTS stuff from 3 never played 4 hope namco can get theiri shit  togher the fighting game market is becoming a little to croweded

Edited by ricetopher

My guesses:

  • It's not a Capcom game.
  • Humongous boobs.
  • SC4 had incredibly out-of-place guest characters
  • People like to hate on games they don't play, especially fighting games
  • Different feel from most popular fighters
Posted by Hailinel
@slightconfuse said:
" i enjoyed th eRTs stuff from 3 never played 4 hope namco can get theiri shit  togher the fighting game market is becoming a little to croweded "
How is it becoming too crowded?  I hear people say this, but I don't get it.  Different fighting games appeal to different audiences, and Soul Calibur in particular has always had a style of play that's set it apart from most other series.
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Posted by SoldierG654342

So long as I can pit randomly generated characters against each other, I will buy this game eventually. 

Posted by Hailinel
@Landon said:
" Soul Calibur 4 sucked. "
Care to elaborate?

@Freezer_Burn said:
" @Hailinel: That was the entire reason I gave up on SC3. I enjoyed it immensely, but my will was broken after that happened. But for SC5? I'm totally willing to give it a chance. I'm hopeful for redemption, but "guest characters" isn't a wonderful start. Maybe they'll have someone who fits better than Vader/Yoda. "

It's easy to hate on the SCIV guest characters (and from my stance, that hate is very justifiable), though the guest characters in SCII didn't intrude on the game in a terrible fashion.  Yes, it was gimmicky for Link to be firing arrows at Mitsurugi, but he, Heihachi, and even Spawn didn't clash with the game's aesthetic like Vader, Yoda, and Starkiller.
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Posted by SlightConfuse
@Hailinel said:
"

                    @slightconfuse said:
"

                    i enjoyed th eRTs stuff from 3 never played 4 hope namco can get theiri shit  togher the fighting game market is becoming a little to croweded

                   

                "
How is it becoming too crowded?  I hear people say this, but I don't get it.  Different fighting games appeal to different audiences, and Soul Calibur in particular has always had a style of play that's set it apart from most other series.

                   

                "

The 3 main games a Street fighter , Marvel and MK. Blazeblue is bringing up the rear.  fel like if this does not find its audience it will be left in the dark.
Edited by ryanwho

SC4 was such a joke that it almost makes Tekken and DOA look legit by comparison. Almost. People don't play SC games at EVO and even Smash Bros and MvC gets played at EVO. What happened was Street Fighter 4 came out and a wave of legit fighters came out in its wake. And then you go "oh that's right, fighting games".

Posted by PerryVandell

I think a lot of people were somewhat disappointed in Soul Calibur IV and now expect to be disappointed by SC V as well. 

Posted by RandomInternetUser

I like Soul Calibur quite a lot (second one is one of my favorite games), and am excited for this.  One thing has me upset though - they said they're turning the two-handers into short swords.  WHAT THE FUCK?!  The two-hander dudes (Nightmare, Siegfried, etc.) were my favorite characters, and the short sword/shield guys(Well, chicks, I guess) are by far my least.  Kinda sucks but I'll wait and see.  Surely they at least still have Mitsurugi with his katana...

Posted by Landon
@Hailinel: 
They added super moves
Everyones boobs are waaaaay too big
They ruined the create a character mode by giving attributes to items
Star Wars characters did not match the universe
The Apprentice was over powered
They charged for dlc that was on the disk
The dlc sucked
Still too many stages where you fall off instead of actually being a good fighter
And, above all, everything that was good about Soul Calibur 3 was taken out.
Posted by Hailinel
@Landon: Fair enough.

@xobballox: I don't know what to say about the two-handed/short sword comment.  For all I know, it could have been an awkward translation from Japanese that didn't come across well.
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Posted by Dallas_Raines
@Cornman89 said:
 Hell, Ivy has nothing on some of the Mortal Kombat ladies, even on a cold day. 
That...is not at all true. Ivy is on a whole 'nother level in terms of retarded boobiness.
Edited by RandomInternetUser
@Hailinel: I hope so, but the trailer where Siegfried/Nightmare clash swords and their swords seem to turn into two short sword versions doesn't bode well : /

Still will probably be a lot of fun and I will probably buy it.
Posted by ryanwho

Nobody in the history of fighting games looks more embarrassing than Ivy. Felicia is a distant 2nd place.

Posted by Beforet
@Hailinel said (paraphrase):
Words words words Nightmare is coming back words.
And that's all I needed to hear. Consider me interested.
Posted by TheBlackPigeon
@Hailinel:

Honestly, I think a lot of the vitrol is simply a defense mechanism from the SC faithful. A lot of them just don't want Namco to break their hearts again.  I mean.....that whole Legends thing still stings a little.

And I agree with you about SCIV. Sure, I'm not much of a fan of it. But I'm not going to sit there and call it terrible, as though this never existed.
Posted by AuthenticM

As a man who thinks Christina Hendricks is Aphrodite reincarnated, I hope they leave Ivy just the way she was in IV. You heard me.

Posted by ryanwho
@AuthenticM said:
" As a man who thinks Christina Hendricks is Aphrodite reincarnated, I hope they leave Ivy just the way she was in IV. You heard me. "
Plenty of fetishists are into weird shit, this isn't news. The question is, should weird fetishists be determining the trajectory of the series? If yes, then why are these women wearing shoes. I... can't see their toes. Their tiny tiny toes.
Posted by Beaudacious
I hope ivy has a move in SCV where she smashes someones face in with her bust. Oh god to many fatality's in recent days, Mk has spoiled me rotten with gore?
Edited by ArbitraryWater

I dunno. I'm sure the actual fighting in SCIV was fine or whatever, but there were a lot of things about it aesthetically that kind of turned me off: those desperate, desperate guest characters and retardedly stripperific boobs aside (not saying that MK doesn't have creepy ladies with creepy clevage, but let's face it: Ivy is way creepier. That, and if I wanted creepy voyuerism in my fighting games, I'd play Dead or Alive). That, and there were probably actual problems with the game that actual people who actually like Soul Calibur (I liked the second one back when I rented Gamecube games, but otherwise, ehhh) had actual issues with, none of which I actually will pretend to be knowledgeable about.

In some ways, I feel like MK Armageddon is best compared to Mortal Kombat Trilogy. Because they're both have that kind of stupid, kind of humorous "Hey, we have all these character assets, let's throw em all in here and hope for the best!" mentality. That's not really praise or anything, but I still kinda want to check out the PS2/Xbox era games, if only for comparison's sake with the modern one. 

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Posted by Cube

I don't hate SCV or the series, I just didn't think anyone was honestly craving a new game. SCIV was pretty decent, but it didn't warrant another entry in the series, in my opinion.

Posted by Bobby_The_Great
@Hailinel:  I love SC IV, I have no idea why people wouldn't want another SC? V looks great.
Edited by Underachiever007

There was a time when I thought the MK series was beyond saving. They managed to turn that around. I have hopes Namco will be able to do the same with SC.

Posted by Hailinel
@ArbitraryWater: The problem with comparing Armageddon to Trilogy was that the development team actually treated Armageddon more seriously.  They crafted an elaborate story mode for it, added a "create-a-fighter" feature, and went to the trouble of adding in every character that hadn't been in Deadly Alliance or Deception, meaning that they had to create assets from scratch, even when that meant making ridiculous moves like removing two of Kintaro's legs.  The game was meant to stand on its own as a part of the story, except the story boils down to "There's this pyramid, and Blaze is standing on top of it.  Kill him and you claim a prize."  Why is Blaze even in that role?  I have no idea.  Further, Trilogy wasn't produced by the primary Mortal Kombat team.  It was an outsourced project put together by a team that had access to all of the old assets.  Armageddon was made by Ed Boon's team, and nothing about it had that same sense of absurdity as Trilogy.  It's just a dumb mess.  Even the Fatalities were worthless, as they were essentially just button combos to brutalize your opponent with no individuality.

In all honesty, I thought that Deadly Alliance (the first PS2/Xbox era game) had potential, but Deception largely squandered it by stacking on more mechanics while failing to address the issues in Deadly Alliance properly, and Armageddon was built essentially on what was crafted for Deception.  And never in all three games did they manage to fix the most glaring and obvious issues, like how to make projectiles worthwhile in a game with 3D movement; a problem that they still couldn't resolve in MK vs. DC.
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Posted by Kandycane2029
@SlashseveN303 said:
"I demand very little from my Soul Calibur games... Oh and get rid of that stupid character creation system with items giving bonuses so my characters don't look like freaking clowns."
100% this.  It really made me dislike IV a lot.
Posted by Lunar_Aura

I really like poking fun at Sonic the Hedgehog fans. With every new release they cling to hope of it being a good game and they just never EVER learn their lesson.


Namdai makes me feel like a shortbus version of a Sonic fan except for Soul Calibur. I fell in love with part 1 and just when I hope they can recapture that magic they make asinine technical and design flaws to make me retch. Yet every single Soul Calibur release I salivate and buy on day one thinking I'm feasting on something good and weeks later realizing I just faithfully buried my face in Namdai's dogshit for the umpteenth time. So yeah, that's why the hate, for me at least.
Edited by SeriouslyNow

There is only one Soul Calibur worth giving a damn about and that's Soul Calibur for Dreamcast.  Every other variant and sequel has been utter shite and people who don't think so just have no idea what makes Soul Calibur for Dreamcast the timeless game that it is.  Oh and Weeaboos.

Posted by Doctorchimp

Aren't you the dude that was super dismissive over Street Fighter IV arcade edition?

People don't like certain things and love other things.

Posted by StarvingGamer

I'm pretty sure most of the people hating on SC haven't actually played SC. Those games are amazing mashy fun for casuals and incredibly deep for the hardcore. Sure Hilde broke the metagame of IV a bit but there's nothing wrong with S tier IMO.

Personally I cant wait for SCV and just hope they give us an even better character creation mode with adjustable character height. That and maybe get rid of just cancels, I fucking hate those. A grown up Amy that folds in more of Raphael's techniques would be awesome. And give Ivy less clothings please.

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