imsh_pl's forum posts

#1 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

@ibushido: My point is that the fact that a certain game gets enough upvotes on greenlight - a popularity vote - actually tells us something about the society we live in. In Hatred's example the information conveyed is that many people don't have the problem with portratying a violent character in a video game, and, of course, anyone who plays them knows it to be true.

So the idea that a rape game gets enough votes on greenlight makes the underlaying assumption that the gaming community has many people comfortable enough with raping someone in a video game to support such a game being made. And, at this point, I would argue that's not true (at least not in the western market).

In other words, your scenario isn't 'if I made a rape game and it got greenlight, would steam deny it being made', it actually is 'if the gaming community was comfortable with raping people, would a rape game be permitted on steam'. And by that point the answer would probably be yes.

But you're kinda ommiting the fact that your scenario REQUIRES THE GAMING COMMUNITY TO BE OKAY WITH RAPING PEOPLE IN A VIDEO GAME, which is obviously not the case as of right now as often even having sex in a video game leads to outcries and outrage.

You also seem to think that enough people would be willing to pay for a game with 'no audio or images' and just plain text. Which is also obviously not the case.

I have no problems with using hypothetical scenarios to show your point. But all hypothetical scenarios have underlying assumptions. And if the scenario has enough assumptions that are completely in opposition to the current state of reality, and no attempt is being made to justify these assumptions, then perhaps the scenario is just not worth entertaining.

#2 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

@ibushido said:

@imsh_pl said:

What makes you think anyone would want to buy such a game?

I don't know why, but that's completely beside my point.

Well, I'm sorry, you kinda have to answer that one.

You seem to think that games just 'get made' for no good reason. Sorry to disappoint you but that's not how it works.

Developers usually make video games either because they want to make money or because they want to convey an artistic message (or a mixture of the two). For a game to even start development the developers have to present a product satisfactory enough for their employers/sponsors/publishers to invest in.

So the idea that you can just 'make a rape game' completely ignores the fact that before you make a game you have to have some party willing to invest resources.

This isn't some trivial bump that you can ignore in your pretend scenario.

Really? Enough people to warrant making a full featured game? Remember, this isn't Japan we're talking about here, neither a browser/flash game. I'd like to see the numbers you've done on this.

You're making assumptions that you just can't make. You're assuming enough people on steam would find interest in it, you're assuming someone would want to make it. That's not how game development works.

#3 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

@milkman: Are plenty of people gonna buy Hatred though? That's kinda my retort. Whether the support and publicity will be backed by actual sales remains to be seen.

Furthermore, rape and murder in video games are two totally different behavior. It really is kinda bizzare when you look at it, that out of the two most vile crimes human beings can imagine one remains repugnant and the other is so omnipresent we don't even notice it.

That seems to me exactly the point that is being made by hatred's developers. 'You do this all the time, and you are a hypocrite for acting all high and mighty when we strip away the superficial story and just make you do what you have been doing for years: kill human beings for points'.

Not that I necessarily agree that the point had to be made, or if it had, if it had to be made in such a manner. But it's important to recognize that the fact that Hatred exists is an effect of what is permissable in gaming. And, so far, rape is still a no-no in pretty much all video games that aren't sold over the counter.

#4 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

@ibushido said:

What if I were to make a text-based rape simulator? Would Valve publish it? What if it had no imagery at all? What reasons could they give for not publishing it that couldn't also be applied to Hatred?

Rape Simulator 2015

Press Start

You see a woman standing alone. You want to rape her.

Press 'R' to rape.

Nice work. You really raped her good. I'm sure she enjoyed it, even though she didn't say so. The End.

What if that was the entirety of a game with no accompanying images or audio? What if it got enough upvotes on Greenlight? Would Valve publish it? I'm going to take a wild guess and say no.

What makes you think anyone would want to buy such a game?

#5 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/18/7417045/hatred-free-speech-and-one-developers-connections-with-polands-far

inb4 omg polygon- but probably the most legit investigation we've had thus far. all associations are still largely presumtive, but my significant takeaway was the tone of the developer's response- language barrier notwithstanding, he sounds like a petulant adolescent. which given the subject matter, is about right.

edit: sorry for the no-clicky link, on mobile.

edit 2:FIXED

Okay, let me just say this:

I am Polish, and that article was literally the most biased foreign article on Poland's social structure and culture I have ever read.

The author basically has the audacity to take the opinions of a SINGLE representative (a sociologist, because they never have a political bias amirite) of a SINGLE left-leaning organization to paint a picture of the entirety of polish groups which are an inch right of his personal political beliefs.

When reading this I get the impression that the author just googled 'Polska Liga Obrony' (the 'liked' group by one of the members) and emailed the first name from the first address 'hey bro, I'll give u $20 if u tell me something about polen, Ive got this article to write on, like, yesterday and Im to stoned to do my research'.

The equivalent of this would be if a Polish writer attempted to describe the entire history, message and beliefs of the Democratic party by talking to an admin of christians4america.com.

This has to be one of the shittiest and sloppiest journalist pieces I've ever read. It honestly makes me disgusted that the author sees no problem in such a lazy and biased interpretation being passed on as 'THE state of modern Poland'.

#6 Edited by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

In essence, when building a party you should focus on overall good characters first, and gradually focus more towards specialization as the game progresses. So when you start a game and meet your first follower/party comrade generally try having at least some skill points/levels/talents in the most efficient healing powers/buffs (spells which increase friendly characters' capabilities) for each of your character.

As you continue playing the game you will normally be meeting new followers with more focused on their specific fields. So while your first party comrade might be just an overall warrior, your second follower might be an archer (a considerably more limited role), your third - a healer (even more limited as they often straight up lack offensive capabilites), and so on.

My personal opinion is that, in a four player party it is good to have, in general, one character which excels in close quarter combat and is very tough (berserker in fantasy games, armored shotgun wielder in space adventure titles), an all-round balanced one which deals hefty damage but has good defensive capabilities (a straight up warrior, a mid-range gun wielder), one which takes care of empowering allies and slowing down enemy fire (a priest, a tech specialist), and a long-ranged character which takes care of high priority targets and works from a distance (an archer, a sniper). In such a party I would advise you to take on the role of the balanced character.

Good RPG games make it really transparent which character is supposed to fill which role, and you should stick to enhancing their existing strengths while also composing a team which compsensates for some of the members' weaknesses. It is generally not advised to build a party of exclusively mages or exclusively snipers, for example. When a game presents you with a healing priest, don't try to make him an offensive mage (or even worse, a warrior).

Traditional 16bit jRPGs are a great way to start since they have simple mechanics yet can be complex. Try Chrono Trigger maybe? Also, Pokemon games are your best friend when it comes to composing a well-balanced team.

Additional note: don't get discouraged when an RPG game seems inaccessible. It often is the case that it's actually the game's fault, and it really is too complex and poorly designed. RPG games range from those with great yet simple mechanics to those which are complex and punishing and only for a very narrow audience. My advice would be that you start a new thread where you share your desired traits in an RPG game so that people can give you better advice and introduce you to titles which you will enjoy.

#7 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

The whole shenanigans with Steam seem to me to have been a genuine mistake. My guess is someone on the top of the food chain wanted to avoid offending anyone and receiving backlash for it, then the top of the top of the food chain meaning Gabe himself came to the conclusion that removing a game for the reason of it being offensive is a really bad business model. Maybe he even has some incredibly strong free speech values. I'm leaning towards more of the former though.

My guess is: this game is not actually gonna be that successful. It's gonna be the type of game that is widely known and talked about in gaming circles but not really that popular among actual customers (like, say, gone home). Because, let's face it: from a gameplay perspective this game looks mediocre at best. Wow, a dual joystick shooter with guns. You mean the kind of game that was being thrown in for free with your PS+ subscription in 2008? Yeah, that's totally relevant.

And the whole teen angst part is not nearly good enough to merit a purchase. If you are really into extreme unapologetic gore in a video game you've probably already modded GTA IV to run over naked women and have sex with dead babies a few years ago when that came out. If you really want to murder and rape Anita in a video game you've probably already modded RapeLay and added the textures of her face to the victims.

You might argue that bad publicity is still publicity, but the fact remains that this game is, as far as I'm concerned, still talked about solely in gaming enthusiast circles. On top of that it has a universally negative response. I doubt that's gonna translate well into sales.

#8 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

It's possible you might have the wrong mindset while fighting. Instead of focusing on killing dudes and occasionally dodging/blocking, look at the combat system in this game as constantly dodging enemy attacks while occasionally dealing damage.

Try this exercise: go into a group of enemies and make it your mission to take and deal no damage for a minute. Dodge, jump over dudes, stun, throw knives - use every possible technique to avoid damage, but do not deal any damage at all.

This is so you will focus on the key to this game's combat system: crowd control. Once you understand how to fight without taking damage, every 8 hits (5 with the upgrade) execute one enemy (combo brand at the later stages). Also, counter their attacks. Repeat until all enemies are dead.

After that you can throw in some regular safe slashes between dodges to increase your execute rate.

Always execute ranged enemies first because they are your biggest threat.

When you don't see the encounters as 'kill dudes first, dodge second' and instead go with the 'dodge first, kill dudes second' approach you the game is pretty much a cakewalk and all you have to worry about are ranged attackers and captains who have some specific resistances to regular combat moves.

#9 Posted by imsh_pl (3314 posts) -

Yeah, so not only did the game launch at like 11pm here in Europe, it also turns out that Arena rewards classic packs. So thanks for that Blizzard.