I have no idea what most of you are talking about. Never played any diablo, wow type games. They seem to require lot of time and money investment and yet people end up feeling somewhat disappointed. Not all but i do see lot of threads like this.

@Zomgfruitbunnies said:

"Hey, guys, let's totally penalize the player for dying when our game is still clearly in need of balancing and optimization."

"Great idea, man. That'll keep them playing for sure."

/facepalm

Warriors in WoW were broken pieces of SHIT for nearly six years. I don't understand why you're surprised with the direction of Diablo 3.

No cash shop and this doesn't happen. Same thing with MMO's where PvE'ers suffer nerfs at the hands of PvP. Some day, companies will get it, but I guess when your player base is cool with paying real money for virtual items that they never actually get to "own" then they just think their player base are a bunch of idiots willing to throw money at their game.

@Dagbiker said:

I skiped Diablo, I will be playing Torchlight 2.

game bores me to death. act 3 nightmare and im done.

Enjoyed most of it but with adding reflect damage to Siegebreaker and telling us they want us to farm mob packs instead of bosses(which was the only thing I enjoyed on my DH) I'm definitely rolling barbarian now. Seems like the most OP class.

@Dagbiker said:

I skiped Diablo, I will be playing Torchlight 2.

Same here

@Jack268 said:

I'm definitely rolling barbarian now. Seems like the most OP class.

Hahahahaha

People complaining about the patch, BEFORE Inferno, need to stfu. You have no idea of the difference.

@Jack268 said:

I'm definitely rolling barbarian now. Seems like the most OP class.

Hahahahaha

Repair costs seem to be the only issue, people just love to bitch and whine. Sure there are things that can and will be improved but I am enjoying Diablo just fine.

My DH actually survives somewhat in act 3 with the tank build I always wanted to play. Success!

I agree 100% with everything you said. I´ve been thinking about that stuff since I started playing the game. It may not be a big deal for people who just want to enjoy the gameplay but still, it´s not a good business tactic. Blizzard is just trying to get EVERY penny they can get from people. You can choose not to use the RMAH but hey, it´s there for a reason.

Wow people sure get angry when companies pay attention after launch and try and fix their games.

Sorry but graveyard zerging packs wasn't fun at all and wasn't real progression. I would know because I fucking did it and it was lame as shit. The reality is that this is how inferno should of been from the fucking start. People are pissed because they had to drop an act or two in "progression" and lost a lot of dps with the IAS nerf. I understand that it feels like a step back but its only relative to how broken inferno was pre patch. Inferno is so much more balanced now and like I said, it should of been like this from launch. If anything you should be pissed that blizzard released a difficulty that they couldn't even complete themselves and was prone to exploiting/cheesing in order to "progress". That being said, they fixed a lot of problems with inferno difficulty and I think the game is better off for it. There's still some work to be done but I have the patience and understanding to realize that they'll get around to it.

Oh and by the way, if you think the blizzard D3 forums are filled with people speaking "logic and sense" then you're out of your fucking mind, dude. Those forums are the pit stain of the internet right now. I think I've seen ONE constructive criticism post since launch. Everything else has been people bad mouthing blizzard and anyone who enjoys the game . If you don't despise D3 with all your heart and soul then you're a fanboy in their eyes. I wish I exaggerating.

@Hunkulese said:

Wow people sure get angry when companies pay attention after launch and try and fix their games.

Yeah since BioWare hasn't had a game since March, the whining masses move on to Blizzard because they need SOMETHING to bitch about 24/7.

It's been a while since I've played. Since jumping back in yesterday Inferno does seem easier but not necessarily more fun. The affixes are still annoying as hell and the items don't seem that much better then before. Other then that it still feels much like before. Granted the IAS nerf and increased repair bills are pretty bad but nothing to get up in arms about. At least, for me. All in all I'm bored of D3. It's not a bad game per se (although the story/dialogue is by far the worst I've heard in years) but they've really hamstrung themselves in a lot of places especially the issues regarding the AH. I may play a little more but man, this really isn't exactly a quality product.

People have a right to bitch at the downright DISGUSTING business practices that Blizzard has killed this game with. I wish I never bought this pile of shit. Is it a fun game? Yes. But everything around it sucks royal ass.

People want to just play their fucking game, not have it be ruled by the RMAH, which from now forward will be the ONLY factor Blizzard patches this game to suck every fucking penny out of the people stupid enough to waste their money.

Until this game came out I loved Blizzard but the shit they pulled I'm fucking out. I played WoW for years and never had reason to be pissed off even though they have been slowly killing that game since BC.

@Jack268 said:

@Subjugation said:

@Jack268 said:

I'm definitely rolling barbarian now. Seems like the most OP class.

Hahahahaha

Really. If their design goal is that people aren't supposed to kill bosses any more and only kill stupid mob packs, Barbarian does that job better than any other class. With Act 2-4 being nerfed to 50% damage (which is still enough to one shot most other classes running typical builds except monk) they can go through the entirity of inferno in crap gear. All the people complainig about the game "being so easy that it's not fun to play" because "enemies don't deal damage any more" are playing barbarians.

Barbarian's are only op when you have 40+ million gold invested into your gear. Good luck earning that much gold without using other classes to farm. The other classes can do a lot more with less gear. I managed to solo Inferno with a barb before the 1.0.3 patch because I had help from other people to make farming easier.

@wmaustin55 said:

@groin Help? Haha

?

@Paindamnation said:

People complaining about the patch, BEFORE Inferno, need to stfu. You have no idea of the difference.

Or people not complaining about the patch BEFORE Inferno

I honestly thought Diablo 3 was an MMO...I'm not even joking, I tried to play some of the beta, but couldn't even log in...a problem I've only ever experienced in MMORPGs. Always online turned me off of this title anyway, but I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

On top of that, with all of these patches and the problems people have experienced, and this auction house BS, I can't understand just how this game managed to sell as much as it did. Now Blizzard seem to be influencing the game in order to get the players to spend money via microtransactions, and have forced them to grind out gold, something that is an ancient idea that burns players out and kills the fun, to accomodate the rusted husk that is the concept of gear degradation. I don't see the appeal, I could never see it really, and it seems that Blizzard is being as unpleasant as possible about the whole affair, as they've become frustrated with the fact that they can never find a middle ground with their patches...it's seeming more and more like devs can't understand compromise, and instead are trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of their bigger titles in order to move onto the next game in their list, without consideration towards those who actually bought the game, or the fans that have made their success possible.

This seems unpleasant, and I can't blame anyone from stepping away from it. Diablo 3 seems like a title that was taken advantage of, and it's a cautionary tale for anyone else attempting to do what Blizzard are doing. I can't imagine they'll have any major support for this series again, because they never seem to learn from their mistakes, and are some of the worst people in the industry when it comes to actually listening to their fans and coming up with realistic ideas. That's just what I think anyway, seeing how the game has received more than one thread about the issues it has had from launch day.

@Jack268 said:

@groin: I read just yesterday a guy "lamenting the death of Diablo". He had no bought gear at all, everything was farmed by himself. Before the patch it was barely sufficient for Act 1, but after the patch he was going through Act 2 like it was Nightmare difficulty. The damage nerf is enormous, but it mainly affects two classes that already take 30% damage less than all the other classes passively. Just reading Blizzard posts about their design philosophy, it's clear that Monk and Barbarians are the classes the game is balanced for. What they want is people farming elite packs with 5 NV stacks, but a Demon Hunter can't keep their stacks on if one of the packs have say, reflect damage and invulnerable minions because it will require a respec unless you have some super swiss army knife build. This is all from my point of view though. You're welcome to disagree of course. I'm just saying my favorite part of the game was farming the bosses because there wasn't any random affixes to fuck you over, but Blizzard are doing everything to prevent me from playing in a way I enjoy and make another way of playing the game fun. So I'm just going to try the other way.

I agree that the damage nerf is enormous. The game is far too easy now for my tank barb. However, getting the gear that I have now was a difficult process. Your friend must be a lucky guy because I only found 2 pieces of gear that I use for myself during my 200 hours as a barb. Everything else had to be bought off the auction house. I will show you my gear. I found the sword and gloves for myself. Look up the prices for similar items on the AH and you'll see that it is all very expensive.

@Cataphract1014 said:

How to not get high repair costs: Die less.

It's Bashiok, ladies and gentlemen. Round of applause for the troll.

It's not about dying. It's about the general repair costs of actually fighting. Right now, an auto attack costs you an average of 50 gold. If you are a wizard...and cast a spell, it costs your durability as well. YOU ARE CASTING A SPELL, MAKING MAGICAL ILLUSIONS POP OUT OF THIN AIR! The idea that you literally have to decide a build based on how much damage you are causing your gear because you are just playing the game is ridiculous!

@WinterSnowblind said:

@C0V3RT said:

I think you're spot on that the repair costs are going to drive droves away from the game. I've put about 120 hours into my Monk and about another 20 into a Demon Hunter I was leveling up when I hit the barrier in Inferno. I'm in a unique position where my gear still isn't good enough to handle most of the elite mobs on Act II. Thus, I moved back to act 1 to farm jailer and the butcher.

The gear that drops is still crappy high level gear that no one wants on the auction house so I can't rely on that as a source of income anymore... and I break slightly even after my runs... which is hardly enough to build up enough bank to buy anything in the auction house.

To me, however, what killed the game was Blizzards seemingly lack of response to the gold duplication issue a few weeks ago which caused everything in the AH to skyrocket in price. By not removing the duped gold, the economy got turned on it's head and essentially vast majority of players who were playing legit.

This is my biggest problem with the game too. In order to progress, you NEED better gear and the only way to get that is by endlessly farming or buying stuff from the AH (which requires endless gold farming).

Exactly. What made Diablo 2 exciting was that the drops typically were meaningful. You farmed for the DROPS and got excited about the DROPS! Now, because of the importance of the Auction House due to the trash nature of most drops you get and the ability of the Auction House to provide instant gratification, it means that you are now farming for GOLD. That is not fun. That is a second job. I already have one job. I don't care to have another.

I want to play Diablo, not "Gold Farmer: The Game".

This has already been said a ton, but I'm pretty sure you're overreacting here.

I got burnt out with the game act 2 NM : /

But M&B is the best.

I have a lot of WoW forum experience. I have seen many patches that had/would destroy the game. It is always in playes' best interest to claim that the game is ruined, and it rarely turned out to be significant. If complaints have foundation, Blizzard will fix them.

Everything about this game points to Blizzard wanting to push people into a "pay-to-play" mechanic where the loot drops aren't sufficient to play the higher levels so you are forced to hit up the auction house, and now by adding the RMAH, you likely will see a shift from the gold AH to the RMAH for high level items needed to be properly prepared for the game.

Succinctly put: This $60 game seems fuckt for people who are in it for the long haul. I myself have not made it past Act 2 of Nightmare with my Barb or Wizard due to a lack of time and/or initiative.

Like others, I'm kind of just in a holding pattern for Torchlight 2 at this point.

I don't mind a game company balancing it's game out... but God Damn, couldn''t they have at least done this in Beta? IAS too much that it imbalanced loot and made it too a desirable a stat? Why the fuck wasn't that caught in beta?!? Invulnerable skills stack and are expoitable? Fucking Beta. Chests actually giving too good of loot ( this change actually pisses me off. An ARPG trope of busting up crates and looting chests...nerfed ) , BETA.

D3 confuses the hell out of me. I WANT to love the game ( Loot, XP, Builds, etc...) it's just that the game shouldn't be changing This radically after launch. I know it's a meme that we say " we're paying to play a beta version" , but christ the scope of the things D3 is changing make me feel like this is honestly too true.

@UnrealDP said:

This has already been said a ton, but I'm pretty sure you're overreacting here.

I don't see how this is overreacting. I've dumped more than 200 hours into the game already across three toons. I've written a few blogs about the progress through it as well. I've even said before that I didn't want them to nerf Inferno. I was fine with what the Inferno difficulty was outside of a few spiky areas that didn't make any sense. I mean, I was soft-capped on defenses across the board with (at that time) 22% block and 16% dodge plus melee and ranged reductions. Act 3 had some ridiculous spikes in damage, as I could fight 40 guys one minute that would give me a challenge. Meanwhile, ONE Demonic Hellflayer could come down, hit me with one fireball...and I'd take 35k MITIGATED damage? That's a little unbalanced. The elite and rares, I understood it. Those guys are meant to be TOUGH, and especially with the value that NV would give you in adding to your chance of good drops. However, the normal mobs were not balanced out, and this caused issues because the amount of mitigation needed for a normal viable build cost way too much to obtain realistically. You would have to build a cheese build and use that while throwing your corpse at the wall in order to get through the entirety of Inferno.

Also, most people need to realize something: out of over 7 million people that had bought the game, only 2% of the people were even IN Inferno. 2% of 7,000,000 equals...140,000. So, to put that in perspective for people: less than 200,000 people WORLDWIDE were IN the hardest difficulty. So if you see people on the forums complaining about Inferno, then it's a small group of people that are the ones saying this stuff...and they aren't exactly pushovers. Therefore, the nerfs to Inferno weren't something that needed to happen, but the adjustments to get the normal mobs to where they needed to be were needed, such as the example I gave above. Yes, I feel like Inferno is "easier" now, but it is still very much a challenge if you want to down elite and rare mobs, which should be something you look forward to just as much as you dread. Because of these repair costs, no one looks forward to it now. They do what they can to either avoid it or pull them to the side and move on.

Here's what it comes down to it: Blizzard released an unfinished product...and now people are finding out why they have always held to the mantra of "when it's done". There was a lot more that needed to be done...

...and if people think it's good/bad now, just wait until PvP gets patched in!

@jakob187: I've found the patch just fine, and I'm in A2 inferno and been there for quite some time(since the second week or so). I took a break for a couple weeks and came back with the new patch and shit's already way easier, and I can farm sections I like (I really do like A1 near the end with halls of agony/jailer/butcher) and still get decent drops. My damage is slowly creeping up, I have way less stats than you in the HP/vit/resist department but I have decent DPS for a WD and can kite what I need to. Before the nerf I was farming A2 up through Maghda and really dislike that section of the game, but it was doable with some deaths, and played through to Belial with a few friends on several occasions, but still don't have the gear for A3.

Last night I did 2 butcher runs, paid probably 100k in repairs, and ended the night with 50k more than I started and maybe another 100k in saleable items on the gold AH and 2 items I sold on the RMAH for $2-2.50. In addition I found 3 items that were upgrades to actually wear. I really don't see the issue with repair costs, if you're doing content appropriate to your ilvl and not dying a ton, the "50g per auto attack" is negligible anyhow. If you really want gold though, you already know how to get it, its a commodity you can easily earn with some GF gear and running A4 hell a couple times if you even care enough to do it. I also like how you deflect the comment about not dying after asserting you need to die to progress, and change your argument to an auto attack costs too much, pretty clever. Personally I don't care one way or the other, the increased gold cost hasn't been a big deal. Making mobs insta heal when you die, or increasing death timer etc would all have been way more annoying IMO, but to each their own.

After trying out A2 it is easier but only slightly for me personally, some of the enemy types in mid A2 are just annoying as hell with base abilities so the elite packs take a while to whittle down, and I can get decent upgrades for my gear level from A1 at a slower rate now anyway and in a part of the game I enjoy. I'll swap to farming front half A3 when I get better gear because I like A3 a lot, but I need a lot more dps to really survive some of those packs, I don't need to sit there and endlessly try to farm barrels because now some upgrade gear actually drops in A1/A2.

@Renahzor: You haven't gotten into Act 3 Inferno yet? Also, what tier set of armor are you currently wearing? Do you know the iLVL?

I'm in iLVL 62 and 63 gear + Legendaries. My repairs at full breaks have been in between 50,000 and 60,000 gold. That's about how much I make in one Butcher run...before the repairs from the Butcher run...maybe. I've had Butcher runs where I barely made 20k due to lack of elites and not being able to get 5 stacked. The Butcher runs, with no deaths on Inferno, have been costing me around 15-20k in repairs. In turn, it means that it will take two Butcher runs in order for me to possibly get the money in order to go back into Act 3 and work towards progression?

It will take me an hour or more to get the money for repair bills...for what could possibly only be 15 minutes of gameplay in a mode for progression? That's bad design. Period.

Farming for gold in order to pay your repair bills should not be the way you play a game. That is not fun, but Blizzard seems to think it is. Farm runs are basically dailies.

I busted ass to get into Inferno, and now I'm being punished because of the old "one bad apple spoils the bunch" metaphor. It's bad design philosophy. Period.

@jakob187 said:

@UnrealDP said:

This has already been said a ton, but I'm pretty sure you're overreacting here.

I don't see how this is overreacting. I've dumped more than 200 hours into the game already across three toons. I've written a few blogs about the progress through it as well. I've even said before that I didn't want them to nerf Inferno. I was fine with what the Inferno difficulty was outside of a few spiky areas that didn't make any sense. I mean, I was soft-capped on defenses across the board with (at that time) 22% block and 16% dodge plus melee and ranged reductions. Act 3 had some ridiculous spikes in damage, as I could fight 40 guys one minute that would give me a challenge. Meanwhile, ONE Demonic Hellflayer could come down, hit me with one fireball...and I'd take 35k MITIGATED damage? That's a little unbalanced. The elite and rares, I understood it. Those guys are meant to be TOUGH, and especially with the value that NV would give you in adding to your chance of good drops. However, the normal mobs were not balanced out, and this caused issues because the amount of mitigation needed for a normal viable build cost way too much to obtain realistically. You would have to build a cheese build and use that while throwing your corpse at the wall in order to get through the entirety of Inferno.

Also, most people need to realize something: out of over 7 million people that had bought the game, only 2% of the people were even IN Inferno. 2% of 7,000,000 equals...140,000. So, to put that in perspective for people: less than 200,000 people WORLDWIDE were IN the hardest difficulty. So if you see people on the forums complaining about Inferno, then it's a small group of people that are the ones saying this stuff...and they aren't exactly pushovers. Therefore, the nerfs to Inferno weren't something that needed to happen, but the adjustments to get the normal mobs to where they needed to be were needed, such as the example I gave above. Yes, I feel like Inferno is "easier" now, but it is still very much a challenge if you want to down elite and rare mobs, which should be something you look forward to just as much as you dread. Because of these repair costs, no one looks forward to it now. They do what they can to either avoid it or pull them to the side and move on.

Here's what it comes down to it: Blizzard released an unfinished product...and now people are finding out why they have always held to the mantra of "when it's done". There was a lot more that needed to be done...

...and if people think it's good/bad now, just wait until PvP gets patched in!

Yipes that's a long response, but it kind of answers its self, thankfully. You already said that only 2% of Diablo players get into Inferno, so doesn't that already strike you as something wrong that needs fixing? Just because you're a part of this elite few doesn't mean you should just pretend the Inferno patches should be geared towards you and you alone. Blizzard's all about accessibility and you've already said Inferno is unbalanced, so what else is there to say? Why even argue that balancing for an unbalanced difficulty that actively splits your audience by absurd percentages is unneeded and causing the game to "Die Overnight?" You're thinking like you're 2% are the only people in the world who'll ever play or want to play Inferno. There are tons of people who'd love to play Inferno, but don't because of the horrible imbalance and lack of fun in the required strategies, so why alienate 98% of your fan base because 2% love this broken inaccessible mode? Hell, if that 2% of people are simply the people who got to Inferno, then I'd bet that not even half of them enjoy it or agree with it being fine as is.

Repair costs seem pretty fucked though, so I will give you that.

I think the patch is fine. I like that they made the crafting more relevant and that I actually have a better chance at getting better gear from Act 1 Inferno.

Making death more punishable was a good move in my opinion, having to die 5-6 times to kill a single elite pack isn't really fun nor I would call it progression.

They already said they are looking into reducing the durability hits from attacking or being attacked (without dying of course).

Quote from Lylirra:

"On this point specifically, we're looking to reduce the durability hit players take from normal wear-and-tear. We agree with players and feel that characters who never die shouldn't be getting hit with a giant repair fee every couple of hours."

@jakob187: yes I've done parts of A3, not killed Belial(when we tried he was extremely tough, several weeks ago) but ran about half of A3 with a buddy, he was basically carrying me though I don't have enough stats for it and haven't farmed enough to buy or find the gear I would need.

And secondarily, as I said, I was farming back half A1, and could do front half A2 in ilvl 60-61 gear(19k dps, 29k hp, 230ish resists, 3k ac) without having to farm for gold and ending up slightly net positive. If you want gold or find yourself needing it there are other options that take very little actual time.

@jakob187 said:

Right now, I feel like I'm having to beat Shao Khan on the hardest difficulty without being allowed to cheese him. I mean, I don't WANT to cheese this game. I want to make a viable build and do well. Unfortunately, I don't feel that well-balanced and viable builds are worthwhile in this game, that you are expected to cheese shit.

Dude the games made by Blizzard, that's EXACTLY what you are supposed to do. People macro starcraft, I had to play wow in burning crusade with hunters who played by rolling the mouse wheel, diablo 2 item hacks galore, the list goes on. Every Blizzard game made in the last decade gets cheesed, they literally expect you to do it and are probably mystified when someone tries not to.

That said as a person who outright hates Diablo 3 and wants to see it go down in glorious burning flames..... even I think the title of the thread is a bit kneejerk and reactionary. I seriously doubt the quiet majority is going to quit over this.

As for the fan negativity on the Blizzard forums predicting XYZ Blizzard game is tanking tomorrow.... it is the Blizzard forums. They are always 99% negative with 1% people shaking their heads. This isn't new and it will be that way when they fix this, when they break something else, when Diablo 3 inexplicably wins GOTY from somewhere, blah blah. Their forums are ALWAYS like that and it is never going to change because that is what the vocal minority of their fanbase is made of.

When a game is difficult and you die due to something you did or know how to overcome it's a fun level of difficulty. If a game is difficult and you die because of reasons you have no control over it's just frustrating and annoying. Diablo 3 turns into the latter as the champion packs get a larger number of combined affixes in Inferno. You die a lot and it's not usually because of something you did. The addition of higher repair costs just makes it that much more frustrating. I think I'm also done with D3 and I'll continue to look forward to Torchlight 2.

@UnrealDP said:

Yipes that's a long response., but it kind of answers its self, thankfully. You already said that only 2% of Diablo players get into Inferno, so doesn't that already strike you as something wrong that needs fixing? Just because you're a part of this elite few doesn't mean you should just pretend the Inferno patches should be geared towards you and you alone. Blizzards all about accessibility...

I stopped reading right there. Blizzard is not about accessibility. Look at StarCraft II. The numbers of people playing that game are small, and you know why? It's not "accessible". It's something that is typically a very competitive game. Sure, you could buy it, sit down, and fuck around on it with little care for the multiplayer. That is not what StarCraft II is about, and if that's all you are getting from it, then I feel damn sorry for you spending money on it (despite how good the campaign is).

With Diablo 3, I look at it in the same way. They've stated time and time again since the announcement of Inferno that it was a difficulty meant for a much smaller percentage of players, for the hardcore people that wanted to have some incredibly challenging endgame. Again, I was not one who agreed with NERFING Inferno, but rather adjusting it to make normal mobs not be ridiculously sporadic. That's all. Hell, I'm glad they finally buffed the pussy bosses they had! People are having trouble on Ghom now! Unfortunately, the reason they are having a problem is because Blizzard did what Blizzard always does: they turned it into a DPS race rather than making it actually intense and involving in some other way.

Regardless of that, I don't find it problematic that there are 2% of the people in Inferno. You know why? Because there are people that are having trouble with Nightmare. If you are having trouble with Nightmare, you don't need to be in Inferno. If you are having trouble with Hell, you probably shouldn't be in Inferno. I'm sorry to say it like that, but what you are stating is like saying "only 2% of the people out there beat Ninja Gaiden on its hardest difficulty, and that's just not fair". It's a bullshit blanket excuse when people realize that they just don't have the same level of skill.

The problem that this scenario could've created in something like Diablo 2 would be "well, if we can't get into Inferno and play it, then we can't get the best gear". However, because Diablo 3 has the auction house, that is a possibility for those people. They will just have to play at Hell level, hopefully gear up, and then get into Inferno and work at it.

So I don't understand how 2% of the people being in Inferno is that big of a deal beyond people whining and bitching that they aren't in it.

@jakob187 said:

@SamFo said:

Meh, I'll keep playing for sure. Some people care too much.

That may be because some people have invested an initial $60 buy-in plus 150+ hours into the game already. Might I ask what part of the game you are currently in?

$60 for 150 hours of gameplay sounds like a great deal to me. I fail to see the complaint.

@Karkarov said:

Dude the games made by Blizzard, that's EXACTLY what you are supposed to do.

If this was true, they wouldn't be nerfing the cheese into oblivion.

Also, the thread title is not meant as any form of knee-jerk at them. It's meant to bring attention as well as reflect what the general cloud hanging over Diablo 3 seems to be. Given that 80% of the population left the game overnight...and that the population has remained relatively low over the time that 1.03 has been out, I think it's safe to make that thread title.

@Spankmealotus said:

When a game is difficult and you die due to something you did or know how to overcome it's a fun level of difficulty. If a game is difficult and you die because of reasons you have no control over it's just frustrating and annoying. Diablo 3 turns into the latter as the champion packs get a larger number of combined affixes in Inferno. You die a lot and it's not usually because of something you did. The addition of higher repair costs just makes it that much more frustrating. I think I'm also done with D3 and I'll continue to look forward to Torchlight 2.

OH GODDAMN! SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT I'M SAYING!

Thank you, good sir.

@jakob187: To be fair, I have a friend that is debating quitting (this is a guy who sold a necklace for near 200 bucks on the RMAH), because as he puts it, "Any idiot can now complete inferno". He would argue inferno should be harder, and he doesn't care about repair costs because he rarely dies and the gold he makes is more than enough to cover any wear and tear. People have different opinions of "difficult". Some raid encounters in wow are not "difficult" for the very best players, but would be impossible for me personally to complete especially without the dedication of some of those people. I'm sure if enough people complain they'll lower the rep cost, people will find something new to whine about, and the cycle will continue.

@jakob187 said:

@UnrealDP said:

Yipes that's a long response., but it kind of answers its self, thankfully. You already said that only 2% of Diablo players get into Inferno, so doesn't that already strike you as something wrong that needs fixing? Just because you're a part of this elite few doesn't mean you should just pretend the Inferno patches should be geared towards you and you alone. Blizzards all about accessibility...

I stopped reading right there. Blizzard is not about accessibility. Look at StarCraft II. The numbers of people playing that game are small, and you know why? It's not "accessible". It's something that is typically a very competitive game. Sure, you could buy it, sit down, and fuck around on it with little care for the multiplayer. That is not what StarCraft II is about, and if that's all you are getting from it, then I feel damn sorry for you spending money on it (despite how good the campaign is).

With Diablo 3, I look at it in the same way. They've stated time and time again since the announcement of Inferno that it was a difficulty meant for a much smaller percentage of players, for the hardcore people that wanted to have some incredibly challenging endgame. Again, I was not one who agreed with NERFING Inferno, but rather adjusting it to make normal mobs not be ridiculously sporadic. That's all. Hell, I'm glad they finally buffed the pussy bosses they had! People are having trouble on Ghom now! Unfortunately, the reason they are having a problem is because Blizzard did what Blizzard always does: they turned it into a DPS race rather than making it actually intense and involving in some other way.

Regardless of that, I don't find it problematic that there are 2% of the people in Inferno. You know why? Because there are people that are having trouble with Nightmare. If you are having trouble with Nightmare, you don't need to be in Inferno. If you are having trouble with Hell, you probably shouldn't be in Inferno. I'm sorry to say it like that, but what you are stating is like saying "only 2% of the people out there beat Ninja Gaiden on its hardest difficulty, and that's just not fair". It's a bullshit blanket excuse when people realize that they just don't have the same level of skill.

The problem that this scenario could've created in something like Diablo 2 would be "well, if we can't get into Inferno and play it, then we can't get the best gear". However, because Diablo 3 has the auction house, that is a possibility for those people. They will just have to play at Hell level, hopefully gear up, and then get into Inferno and work at it.

So I don't understand how 2% of the people being in Inferno is that big of a deal beyond people whining and bitching that they aren't in it.

Whoa, what crawled up your ass? You need to take a break or something, amigo. It sounds like you want to gut anybody who doesn't agree with 100% here. Also it really doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about with Blizzard not being about accessibility. WoW is so accessible that I hardly need to comment on that one. Arguing that StarCraft 2 isn't accessible is a pretty blanket statement with the incredible tutorials they had in there that helped everything from your micro, to holding off a Zerg rush, and even unit theory on what is good against what. That game's multiplayer is obviously crazy deep, but with the incredible campaign and delightfully in-depth and easy to use tutorials, how could you say all that wasn't about accessibility? Even the achievements and added rock barriers were there to help new players along and give them a break.

Notice all the weird toggles that defined tool tip depth, ability mixing and matching, and the behind the scenes numbers that were surfaced to you in Diablo? Those are all there for a little thing we like to call accessibility.

Is Inferno fun? I get that the hardest difficulty on a game should be brutal and not for the average player, but the reason so little people are playing isn't the difficulty, or, well it technically is, but not really. Inferno just isn't fun right now in any intelligent or consistent way, so I don't understand why you've gotta be such a diva about this patch that's making the difficulty more intelligent and actually enjoyable on some level. Inferno as a difficulty has been changed and is going to keep on being changed so that it can actually appeal to people who aren't just this niche group of masochists who love how inconsistent and screwed all of the difficulty is and would play it no matter how busted it is simply because they want a challenge, fair and balanced or not. At least admit that it's not killing the game overnight or some overly dramatic smut like that.

@jakob187: I think this is the real death knell.

Anyway, I enjoyed my time with Diablo III but I don't see myself going back to anything else in that game anytime soon.

@jakob187 said:

@Karkarov said:

Dude the games made by Blizzard, that's EXACTLY what you are supposed to do.

If this was true, they wouldn't be nerfing the cheese into oblivion.

Also, the thread title is not meant as any form of knee-jerk at them. It's meant to bring attention as well as reflect what the general cloud hanging over Diablo 3 seems to be. Given that 80% of the population left the game overnight...and that the population has remained relatively low over the time that 1.03 has been out, I think it's safe to make that thread title.

No they would be.

You see Blizzard doesn't know how to balance a game. They need the fans to "cheese it" so they know what to fix. They need the fans to create mods, so they can then see what mods work best and copy them. This is literally the entire strategy for their games. The only catch is they normally F up the fix and create more problems then they had to begin with. Case in point, your thread.

I'm on Act IV Rakanoth Inferno (inta teleport death with diamonnd skin for my mage). I was farming Act III, but Act II seems more efficient post patch. Just wanna finish the game, but Blizz just making me grind more.

@Karkarov said:

@jakob187 said:

@Karkarov said:

Dude the games made by Blizzard, that's EXACTLY what you are supposed to do.

If this was true, they wouldn't be nerfing the cheese into oblivion.

Also, the thread title is not meant as any form of knee-jerk at them. It's meant to bring attention as well as reflect what the general cloud hanging over Diablo 3 seems to be. Given that 80% of the population left the game overnight...and that the population has remained relatively low over the time that 1.03 has been out, I think it's safe to make that thread title.

No they would be.

You see Blizzard doesn't know how to balance a game. They need the fans to "cheese it" so they know what to fix. They need the fans to create mods, so they can then see what mods work best and copy them. This is literally the entire strategy for their games. The only catch is they normally F up the fix and create more problems then they had to begin with. Case in point, your thread.

Starcraft?

Reading this topic (and all of the topics on the D3 forums) isn't making me too happy about possibly buying it for $35 tomorrow. After playing D2 and LoD for years I held off on D3 cause I was nervous about the direction of the game (after playing the beta)...this just makes it even worse.