Day 4 Podcast Deliberations Hypocrisy?

Listening to the Day 4 Deliberations Podcast found here:  http://www.giantbomb.com/podcast/?podcast_id=200 (they start talking specifically about it at 23:45) I noticed a something that they are criticizing for their 2010 Worst Trend in Games as something that GiantBomb is guilty of themselves: Social Networking in gaming and how it is a bad trend in gaming. GiantBomb does this with facebook and achievements for the site. They talk for a few minutes about how it sucks that you can get achievements for certain games by getting friends to play a game by using facebook. They talk about how it is unabashed advertising for games by spamming your friends facebook. GiantBomb does this as well though by giving us a way to update our status on fb by letting our friends know we get certain achievements on games. GB does exactly the same thing it is criticizing and that seems to me as hypocrisy.  
 
Granted, I don't get quest points(yet) for clicking the facebook update when I am playing a game to let my friends know when I earn those achievements on the site, but isn't it only a matter of time before that becomes one of the Quests? I think it is terrible in all forms, and I think the Staff needs to stop calling the kettle black. At least it didn't win the top honor for Worst Trend in Gaming, but still, it is pretty lame that they didn't catch the fact that they are guilty of it as well as the game devs that make the games that contain the very thing they are saying make the games worse. 
 
It's bad enough that I get updates on fb that my friend just beat his friends at whatever facebook game, but now we have real games that do it and we have my fave gaming site that does it, yet they don't call themselves out on it. Ryan, Jeff, Vinny and Brad put Socially networked gaming on notice and I am going to do the same thing to GiantBomb: You are on notice gentlemen!

28 Comments
29 Comments
Posted by Jayzilla

Listening to the Day 4 Deliberations Podcast found here:  http://www.giantbomb.com/podcast/?podcast_id=200 (they start talking specifically about it at 23:45) I noticed a something that they are criticizing for their 2010 Worst Trend in Games as something that GiantBomb is guilty of themselves: Social Networking in gaming and how it is a bad trend in gaming. GiantBomb does this with facebook and achievements for the site. They talk for a few minutes about how it sucks that you can get achievements for certain games by getting friends to play a game by using facebook. They talk about how it is unabashed advertising for games by spamming your friends facebook. GiantBomb does this as well though by giving us a way to update our status on fb by letting our friends know we get certain achievements on games. GB does exactly the same thing it is criticizing and that seems to me as hypocrisy.  
 
Granted, I don't get quest points(yet) for clicking the facebook update when I am playing a game to let my friends know when I earn those achievements on the site, but isn't it only a matter of time before that becomes one of the Quests? I think it is terrible in all forms, and I think the Staff needs to stop calling the kettle black. At least it didn't win the top honor for Worst Trend in Gaming, but still, it is pretty lame that they didn't catch the fact that they are guilty of it as well as the game devs that make the games that contain the very thing they are saying make the games worse. 
 
It's bad enough that I get updates on fb that my friend just beat his friends at whatever facebook game, but now we have real games that do it and we have my fave gaming site that does it, yet they don't call themselves out on it. Ryan, Jeff, Vinny and Brad put Socially networked gaming on notice and I am going to do the same thing to GiantBomb: You are on notice gentlemen!

Posted by mazik765

I think it's 2 totally different things. No one has a problem with giving status updates to tell your friends how you're doing in a game or with achievements. When it becomes a problem is when A) This si the default setting and ruthlessly spams your status or B) when it actually gives you incentive for spamming and making the status updates intrusive. Giantbomb does neither of these things. I don't think they are against Social Networking integration as a rule, but how it's been handled by some games in 2010 has been abysmal, and I think that's more what they were talking about.

Posted by DanielJW
@mazik765 said:
" ... A) This si the default setting and ruthlessly spams your status or B) when it actually gives you incentive for spamming and making the status updates intrusive. "
This. You get a quest for syncing but you never have to post anything ever. Nor does it auto-post anything you do. On top of that there aren't any quests for bringing 20 friends to Giant Bomb or anything like that, they're all about finding friends on the site. 
Posted by Jayzilla
@mazik765: If you look at how you can attach your achievements in games from this site to facebook I think you will see it is spam. The GB achievements page specifically says  " Broadcast your achievement stats as they update! "  
 That to me is specifically spam and one of the things I loathe about facebook. I don't want to see every little achievement and an attachment to giantbomb via facebook and it is specifically one of the things they mention that is bad about gaming.
Posted by Jayzilla
@DanielJW: some of the stuff they talk about don't make you do it either. With Need for Speed you earn an achievement for getting friends to play it via facebook but you don't have to do it. Soon there could be a quest on GiantBomb about using the facebook achievement though. I am not saying all they talked about that had to do with this is what GB does. I am just saying their are specific things that they are criticizing that they do as well. Doesn't mean I hate giantbomb. It just means they are guilty of social network support like everyone else in games. 
Posted by JoeyRavn

 I don't see why you should call the Squad "hypocrites". Giant Bomb is not a game, it's a website. I don't think it is so far-fetched for a website which is all based around a community to integrate a social network like Facebook or Twitter into itself. Also, you have the possibility to decide what gets to your Facebook wall. You can turn off whatever messages from your friends' apps and gamed you don't want and no one forces you tu broadcast your own synced Achievements. If it gets there it's because you are either allowing it or being the one that's spamming it.  
 
Also, 
 
@Jayzilla said:

"Granted, I don't get quest points(yet) for clicking the facebook update when I am playing a game to let my friends know when I earn those achievements on the site, but isn't it only a matter of time before that becomes one of the Quests?" 
Let's worry about something that has not happened yet, and has no actual reason for happening in the foreseeable future.
Posted by LordAndrew

Dave (I think it was Dave) has said that he doesn't actually like Facebook. It seems this is just something they felt they had to do because everyone else was doing it. It's a dumb trend that they've been pressured into.
 
Facebook Connect login is gone now, as far as I can tell. So we have a quest (Facehugger) that I'm pretty sure is now impossible to complete. Oh, and moving from Facebook Connect to Multi-Pass broke a bunch of logins and exposed many e-mail addresses. Hopefully Whiskey Media never does something that stupid again.

Posted by Cirdain

I agree with many of these opinions that is opposed to yours.

Posted by SBYM

Before you're flooded with people shitting all over this blog, I'd just like to say I found this kind of amusing and agree to an extent. Either way, I don't particularly care.

Posted by DeeGee
@JoeyRavn said:
"  I don't see why you should call the Squad "hypocrites". Giant Bomb is not a game, it's a website. I don't think it is so far-fetched for a website which is all based around a community to integrate a social network like Facebook or Twitter into itself. Also, you have the possibility to decide what gets to your Facebook wall. You can turn off whatever messages from your friends' apps and gamed you don't want and no one forces you tu broadcast your own synced Achievements. If it gets there it's because you are either allowing it or being the one that's spamming it. 
A hundred times this.
Edited by JeanLuc

Giantbomb's social stuff is completely optional.

Posted by Rhaknar

all this drama the last few days over the podcasts is hilarious

Posted by remixrunixlp
@wasteguru:  Optional, yes, but it kinda also what they are primarily focused on.Giant Bomb isn't trying to merely be a site people go to for gaming news and reviews. They want to build a gaming community. Internet communities have certain requirements to become...well...internet communities. Seeing as Facebook - for better or worse - is the standard by which all internet communities are judged, it's only natural for Giant Bomb to utilize that readily accessible and established tool to help build their fan base and construct their community at large. 
 
This site is trying to become the Nerdvana of gaming where the site visitors feel connected to the site creators and editors. Unfortunately, when we think connected these days, we think Facebook. Unless you're still on Myspace, in which case GOOD GOD WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU???
Posted by zudthespud
@remixrunixlp: People rip on Myspace but it's still the 43rd most visited website in the world. I'm not a fan personally but millions of people still use it. 
Posted by Christoffer

Giant Bomb IS a social network made for people to share thoughts and ideas. Linking this site with facebook is only logical. Getting twitter feeds and facebook status from a game, on the other, is stupid.
Posted by mazik765
@Jayzilla:  It may be spam if you consider a facebook update once every like 12-16 hours spam, but like I said it's a choice you are making of your own volition. It's not something that is automatically on and doesn't notify itself to you until you have a page full of Sims updates, and it doesn't encourage you to spam by offering some sort of incentive.
Posted by Azteck

Why is everyone freaking out about silly, stupid things?! This is ludicrous, they're not hypocrites, this isn't a game and calm down.

Posted by wolf_blitzer85
@Rhaknar said:
" all this drama the last few days over the podcasts is hilarious "
I'm just going to duck and cover when they release the GOTY deliberations.
Online
Posted by yakov456

I admit I let my PSN account update my trophies on facebook all the time. If someone is annoyed just block my posts, so the argument they make is pointless in the first place.

Posted by Jayzilla

i love how people say i am freaking out about it. i am not at all. i am merely making some observations. some of the very stuff the guys were talking about being bad trends in gaming were OPTIONAL facebook things in games akin to what is on this site. Again, I am merely making the suggestion taht they do some of the stuff that they said "they were putting on notice" in the podcast. I went back and read my original post and I don't see anything heavy handed in my criticisms. It's just my opinion in my blog.  calling it "drama" and that i am "freaking out" about it is funny. unless people are just talking about what they have seen in other blogs. in which case, alright.

Posted by Noodles
@Jayzilla said:
" It just means they are guilty of social network support like everyone else in games.  "
Guilty of? For people who like sharing achievements with friends and are gamerscore whores, it's a great feature. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean some people don't. Also, it's a lot different when a website does it rather than a game. Giantbomb isn't a product, it's a community.
 
Long story short: if you don't like it, don't use it.
Posted by EuanDewar

"but isn't it only a matter of time before that becomes one of the Quests?"      
 
Nah.
Posted by jozzy
@Noodles said:
" @Jayzilla said:
" It just means they are guilty of social network support like everyone else in games.  "
Guilty of? For people who like sharing achievements with friends and are gamerscore whores, it's a great feature. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean some people don't. Also, it's a lot different when a website does it rather than a game. Giantbomb isn't a product, it's a community.  Long story short: if you don't like it, don't use it. "
But that's exactly why games do it, they want to form a community around the game. I agree with most it's not exactly the same, but the OP does have a point. Some of you guys seem to find it really hard to accept any critisim about the GB crew. It's not really chique to critisise a trend when you are part of it as well.
Posted by Jayzilla
@mazik765 said:
" I think it's 2 totally different things. No one has a problem with giving status updates to tell your friends how you're doing in a game or with achievements. When it becomes a problem is when A) This si the default setting and ruthlessly spams your status or B) when it actually gives you incentive for spamming and making the status updates intrusive. Giantbomb does neither of these things. I don't think they are against Social Networking integration as a rule, but how it's been handled by some games in 2010 has been abysmal, and I think that's more what they were talking about. "
 It is completely optional on whether or not you want to attach your GB achievements on facebook. It is completely optional with some of the games they were talking about(their words not mine) to link your gaming to facebook. In this specific case in the podcast is what I am talking about and they are the same thing: GB and the games they were mentioning offer a way to OPTIONALLY link your achievements to facebook.  That to me is hypocrisy and I am going to call GB out on it the same way they were calling game makers out on adding purely optional facebook stuff.  
 
They did talk about the stuff that you were saying as well, but this is my blog and I wasn't even speaking to that as much as what they were doing that is the same as the game makers.
Posted by LordAndrew
@wasteguru said:
" Giantbomb's social stuff is completely optional. "
Isn't it optional in games too?
Posted by Grimace

This whole "lets pedantically critique everything they say" part of the forums is getting annoying.

Posted by JoeyRavn
@Jayzilla said:
" @mazik765 said:
" I think it's 2 totally different things. No one has a problem with giving status updates to tell your friends how you're doing in a game or with achievements. When it becomes a problem is when A) This si the default setting and ruthlessly spams your status or B) when it actually gives you incentive for spamming and making the status updates intrusive. Giantbomb does neither of these things. I don't think they are against Social Networking integration as a rule, but how it's been handled by some games in 2010 has been abysmal, and I think that's more what they were talking about. "
 It is completely optional on whether or not you want to attach your GB achievements on facebook. It is completely optional with some of the games they were talking about(their words not mine) to link your gaming to facebook. In this specific case in the podcast is what I am talking about and they are the same thing: GB and the games they were mentioning offer a way to OPTIONALLY link your achievements to facebook.  That to me is hypocrisy and I am going to call GB out on it the same way they were calling game makers out on adding purely optional facebook stuff.   They did talk about the stuff that you were saying as well, but this is my blog and I wasn't even speaking to that as much as what they were doing that is the same as the game makers. "
They were complaining  especially about games that force you to use those social networks to unlock stuff in-game, for example, Achievements or items. I don't think they hate Facebook/Twitter integration per se, but the terrible use of it some games have made. I still fail to see how that makes them hypocrites. But it seems we're not allowed to disagree with your blog.
Posted by mazik765
@Jayzilla said:
" @mazik765 said:
" I think it's 2 totally different things. No one has a problem with giving status updates to tell your friends how you're doing in a game or with achievements. When it becomes a problem is when A) This si the default setting and ruthlessly spams your status or B) when it actually gives you incentive for spamming and making the status updates intrusive. Giantbomb does neither of these things. I don't think they are against Social Networking integration as a rule, but how it's been handled by some games in 2010 has been abysmal, and I think that's more what they were talking about. "
 It is completely optional on whether or not you want to attach your GB achievements on facebook. It is completely optional with some of the games they were talking about(their words not mine) to link your gaming to facebook. In this specific case in the podcast is what I am talking about and they are the same thing: GB and the games they were mentioning offer a way to OPTIONALLY link your achievements to facebook.  That to me is hypocrisy and I am going to call GB out on it the same way they were calling game makers out on adding purely optional facebook stuff.   They did talk about the stuff that you were saying as well, but this is my blog and I wasn't even speaking to that as much as what they were doing that is the same as the game makers. "
And you're welcome to that opinion, I just disagree :)
Posted by davidwitten22
@Noodles said:

. Giantbomb isn't a product, it's a community.
When the site added paid memberships, it became a product.