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Khazidhea

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Khazidhea

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#1  Edited By Khazidhea

I didn't realize how much Elizabeth changed since debut trailer.

Also if you look at the first 10 min demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_DSfjAdhlU

I love the combat there. I used vigors very rarely. I pretty much used machine gun and sniper rifle. Shock versus big guys, levitation thing vs masses. But in here the combination of spells is really good. Plus this manipulation spell like in original Bioshock - I could never get magnetic shield work in the same way and you get it soooo late in the game.

Also notice how the changed the story a little bit. How npcs go from "normal" to "insane" and start attacking. Plus weird things like lady brushing when the house is on fire - people being phased out, it's kinda cool.

Also look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=e9cM9IXOofQ

Notice how Elizabeth is bad at controlling tears. I'd love to explore that. The other thing that I noticed is how young Comstock is on the portrait and how Elizabeth is going to Comstock to ask for help.

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Khazidhea

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@runcrash, thanks again!

At the start of the game there are some notes saying "bring us the girl and wipe away the debt" as well as some dead guy on a chair. Also, it still feels like Lutece could've fixed the problem all by him\herself without involving Booker. But hey we needed a premise and maybe since he somehow died and experimented with all that time travel they can't directly affect things or something like this?

I get the kinda-connection. But I can't see one Elizabeth being linked to many little sisters and was there a little sister that her full potential and wasn't brainwashed? Are you talking about the one from Bioshock 2?

The paradox is created by baptism and Comstock and Booker being the same person, which doesn't happen in Rapture? Eh I guess they want it to be vague. But then the lighthouse is the connection ... which like it's the weakest point it can be done anywhere, not just lighthouse. I guess lighthouse is a tear? Maybe I just want to much structure and should just leave it be.

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Khazidhea

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@runcrash: I like it. Very good. I almost had it, but you cleaned up my version nicely.

I don't think he knew that he sold Anna to himself from other dimension.

Luteces. What "mistake" are you talking about? How did Luteces hire Booker? At the start he was very much "get the girl and wipe away the debt". He had no idea that Elizabeth=Anna, that he was trying to save his own daughter. What was the motivation for Luteces? Were Luteces trying to prevent the war? Or just undo the time loop? Why didn't Luteces themselves kill Booker during baptism then? Did they want to leave it up to Elizabeth and Booker?

Where did it say that burning New York takes place in 1984? Just curious, didn't notice that. Why did she bring Booker here, at that moment and not earlier? Would you agree with me that once she saw New York burning she started having doubts, regrets and decided to change? Why was the message so unnecessarily enigmatic with a drawing of a cage, instead of just saying in plain English - play notes C, A, G, E to control songbird?

The remark to previous games. I like the way it sounds with constants of a man, a lighthouse and a city. I really like it. Revisiting Rupture, its lighthouse and bathysphere was kinda cool. But it doesn't make sense to me. Now, I only played the original Bioshock and haven't touched the second one (I read about it) . I don't see the clear one-to-one correlation between characters ... there is no Elizabeth, there is no Comstock.

I mean Jack and Andrew Ryan are certainly not the same person and sure there are little sisters, but there is no "one true" Elizabeth. It takes place in a different time too. Yeah, Liz mentions variables and the time of the events I guess is up to a change, the location being different - it can happen in any city. But overall story should be the same, right? I also feel like it should be linked to a tear, a fork, a deciding point in time and for all Bioshocks it looks like the lighthouse is this point. I don't see why. Shouldn't it be baptism? Ignoring this Rapture bit I am very close to understanding the whole thing.

P.S. Somebody remind me what happens after big battle on the airship when Songbird helps you? The next thing I remember is Songbird drowning as you watch him from inside of some room in Rapture. Then you take bathysphere and go up to the lighthouse. What was the transition between being on the airship and being in Rapture!

P.P.S. Love this kind of discussions! It's been YEARS since I enjoyed game like this.

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Khazidhea

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Pretty sure you had to choose the side of the coin. I remember one more choice - to throw the ball at the couple or at the guy next to them.

Read in some other place that the split (baptism) happened AFTER he sold his daughter.

So, right now it looks like this to me:

Originally Booker is a depressed gambler after all the wars that he was in. Gets into a huge debt. Sells his daughter to a random person to wash a way the debt. Guilt eats at him. Turns to religion, gets baptized and becomes Comstock. Builds Columbia (btw what is \ who is Archangel?).

His lead scientist is the female Lutece. She works on a time travel technology. Because of the close contact to this technology Comstock becomes sterile. He thinks that he can buy his daughter from himself using time travel. A pretty good idea if you ask me! Because that is what happened already. That would work perfectly if it was a fixed timeline (have a look at this http://i.imgur.com/bc8Du.jpg). But instead we have alternate timelines. So Comstock buys Ana from alternate timeline Bookers with help of his own Lutece and alternate timeline Lutece. Which leads alternate timeline Bookers to depression and finally to baptism. Which he either accepts and creates one more Comstock timeline.

Or he refuses and we get to the events of the game. Now lets back up to the Columbia timeline. In this version the Lutece from alternate timeline was male and jumped into Columbia timeline after getting Ana from Bookers. Turns out Ana has tear powers. Everyone freaks out and Lutece build the siphon to stop he from doing it. Meanwhile Comstock's wife gets ups over this child, thinks her husband is cheating. Comstock creates a big fat lie to cover everything, gets pretty crazy and kills his wife and both Lutece.

Lutece don't die however and instead escape into the alternate timeline. The hire Bookers after he refused baptism to get back the girl and they hope that it will fix the whole time travelling mess. Now they take Bookers back to Columbia timeline and he wakes up on a boat with them. His memory gets all messed up. He confuses "get the girl", "wipe away the debt". The game events all happen.

The asylum bit - I still don't fully get it. Correct me. Songbird take Liz to asylum where she is tortured and brainwashed. He gets to her, breaks her out. Now my memory fails me a bit here. I might be off here. But I think you get attacked by Vox? Now if you don't have Songbird helping you I guess what happens is Bookers gets killed, Liz is upset and agry, wipes away Vox. Brainwashing + this hatred to Vox kicks in, she starts following Comstock. She attacks New York, but at some point she regrets what she has done, gets Booker from alternate timeline right after Songbird gets her and before he breaks in 6 months after that. Tells him whats up, write the message to use Songbird against Vox, sends him back at the time of the break-in. Somehow Luteces help Bookers there as well. Now they break out and use Songbird. All is good. Hand of Prophet, Bookers kills Comstock.

Liz starts the explanation. The find the moment of baptism, the fork, the moment when Comstock is created. Bookers is drowned. So there is no possibility of Comstock or Bookers going to Columbia. There is no Ana making tears. Bookers sold her to some random person and the was drawned when being baptized.

Shit, you know what? I just realized it doesn't fully close the loop. Man, I was typing and retyping this, because I realized something new as I go alone for like an hour already!

So, what I think now: unless you can change the events of existing timeline if Bookers gets killed at baptism it just leads to another time line without him. It doesn't solve anything. And it does look that you can only travel between timelines, not change anything. Because otherwise Comstock just buys daughter off his younger self and there is no problem. Another proof is the male Lutece. I think there is also a voxaphone of female Lutece having contact with male Lutece and it's like ... it is alternate timelines!

Argh, idk, it might not make sense in the end, guys. 99% of time travel fiction does not. The ones that do are an absolute mind fuck (see Primer). It gets me frustrated.

P.S. Does anyone know where Bioshock Infinite keeps save files? I think I wanna replay some bits, but I'm afraid if I load the chapter the new autosaves will overwrite existing ones.

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#5  Edited By Khazidhea

Agree, great game.

Very good write up by the way.

I believe she was locked away because she had tendency to open up tears (I guess thanks to her being born in other dimension) so they build the tower and the siphon to stop her from doing it.

Still can't figure out the scientists. AFAIR they were separated in different timelines for some reason. How did that happen initially? What about them coming back from the dead? I mean it's their alternate timeline versions, but why? What do they want?

The remark to original Bioshock with lighthouses - I did not get it. It was kinda cool, but the story there is quite different, isn't it? Still it confuses me. I really wanna know what it's supposed to mean, but it doesn't make sense to me =\

The bad Elizabeth and burning New York - why did the message had to be so ... unclear? Why not just say play the notes C, A, G, E? What happened to Booker in that hospital? I mean he was chasing Songbird and then was thrown forward and backward in time a lot while looking for her. WTF was that? The scientists interfering? What do they even want?

I got the same ending as you (being drowned), but I think it might depend on some of the choices during the game. The once I remember: I chose heads for the coin toss, I chose bird necklace, I let the army ex-friend live ... was there more? I also killed some innocent civilians. Maybe there is a better ending?