L1GHTN1N's forum posts

#1 Edited by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

@trafalgarlaw: I don't love watching Melee either but saying it shouldn't be there is silly. Sure many people see it more as a party game; there's also tons of people who play Marvel the same way, when I play with friends most of them have no interest in learning combos or how the mechanics actually work, they just throw it on simple and watch the pretty lights. The same could be said of Mortal Kombat which has far more casual players than competitive, or really any fighting game (the people who play seriously are still a minority) but that sure as hell doesn't mean they're just some causal party garbage. There's plenty of people who play Starcraft II and never touch the online instead just playing custom games, or people who only play Gun Game in CS:GO, or grab a couple of Warthogs in Halo and slam them into each other and think SWAT is dumb but none of those things dimmish their viability as a competitive game.

Also Smash has its own "Evo" in the form of Apex which is happening this weekend. Melee hit 1024 entries, and would have gotten more if that wasn't the cap (Marvel only had 1014 last year at Evo for the record). While you say it has little relevance today, it's one of the few 10+ year fighting games (and yes it's a fighting game) that not only are we still talking about today, but has a growing community that is likely the second largest after Street Fighter. And while you find it boring to watch, Melee is one of the highest watched games at Evo every year (last year peaked it peaked at 137,800 versus Marvel's 149,470) so there's certainly an audience that enjoys watching it even if that doesn't include you and me.

And even if it's boring to watch, who gives a fuck? Evo is not about the spectacle, if that was the case Injustice (and arguably Street Fighter depending on who you ask) wouldn't have lasted a year and KoFXIII would be there even though no one in the US plays it anymore (which is why it was excluded). It's a chance for the various fighting game communities to come together, celebrate, and more importantly find out who's the best in their community (which is of course the goal of any tournament), not just in their area but in the world. The sight and spectacle are nice but Evo has never been for the stream monsters, it's for the people who actually play the damn game, which I love. You may not find the more technical side that the top players bring interesting but for a lot of people such as myself that is part of the draw. I want to see the best of the best, I want to see that advanced tech that I didn't even know existed and players do things in the game I didn't know were possible; I want to walk away and learn a dozen things I can incorporate into my own play, with motivation to pick up and try a new game, or even just with a new respect for a game I viewed as simple.

And even if none of that matters to you , don't watch for a few hours. Go for a walk, grab food, and take a break from watching all the other awesome games there.

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#2 Posted by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

@zeik said:

29 hours and 59 minutes of Dancing All Night coverage.

Can't wait.

As long as 10 hours of that features Kanji dancing I'm in.

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#3 Posted by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

@recspec: They said on stream they they were looking to make matches shorter and at least crack down on pre-match stuff like taking 5 minutes to choose a stage or button check. Also most of the (very few) Smash 4 matches I've watched have been going by the online rules of 2 stocks versus 4 and have generally lasted as long as a longer Street Fighter 4 set so hopefully things will be better this year.

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#4 Edited by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

@chaser324: From the few matches I've seen of Smash 4 I've enjoyed it much more than Melee, largely thanks to the rule changes (2 stocks and shorter time limit, average set seems to take about as long as a long SF4 set) and more character variety. I'm still not sure it's for me but it's worth a look, Smash also has some of the best commentators which certainly helps.

@GaspoweR They usually take a few days to upload, but you can always go to their Twitch page (twitch.tv/ultrachentv) and watch it there.

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#5 Posted by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

@privodotmenit: I'd love to see KoFXIII back as it's still one of my favorites to watch, the 2011? GFs with Bala and MadKOF was what really caused me to start following this stuff, but the community just is not there. Last year it had the third lowest entries, just barely ahead of Injustice and TTT2, and since EVO I can only think of 1-2 tournaments where it's been at (even then it was a side stream with not a lot of people). There could always be a TTT2 scenario where there's enough outcry and support that it gets on but I don't see that happening, both because of how packed the schedule is and where their community is at.

Also I greatly disagree that the only big games are Capcom games. Guilty Gear Xrd is a giant game that's pulling in many of the people you'd expect to see along with people like Justin Wong who's looking to play, same situation with Smash which you may not love but saying they're a small community could not be more wrong; this year might be the year where they have more people enter than Marvel. And also saying they aren't hype, I agree most matches aren't as hype as the average KoFXIII match but any game can be hype. If you had told me BlazBlue would have been the highlight of last year I would have looked at you like a lunatic but it was by a long shot. It's fine to be skeptical but at least give them a shot.

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#6 Edited by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

@petiew said:

I really hope they change the rules for Smash this year. People were cheering against the underdog because they didn't want to see it drag on for another hour last year.

I was one of those people last year unfortunately. However on stream they said they were looking to change the rules because they agreed 4 stock 8 minutes is way too long, it's fine for something like APEX which has been sort of their EVO when they were exiled but when there's 7 other games to be played outside of Smash it doesn't work. I'd like to see them set it about the same as what Smash 4 is, 2 stocks and ~4 minutes. Matches go much faster, most sets in Smash 4 have been taking about as long as a longer Street Fighter 4 set. They also need to crack down on 4 minute button check/hand warming and taking 5 minutes just to counter pick a stage. I'm sure some people in the Smash community will be pretty against this but it needs to be done if they want people to stick around and stay somewhat on schedule (as close to on schedule as a fighting game tournament can be).

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#7 Edited by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

@nathanxplosion: Assuming you meant Melee, I'm not sure. Most of the time you'd imagine that people would move over to the newer game since that's what the younger and newer crowds are going to be playing and drawn to; from Street Fighter 2/3 to 4 there was a large gap of time where those games weren't really attracting new players, so when 4 came out there was a sudden rush of excitement and interest from new players ('09ers as we're often called) that it quickly became the logical game to start featuring. Smash is in a weird place because there were several years where it was in a similar situation, but then it had a sudden resurgence and everyone jumped onto Melee shortly before 4 came out (Brawl was a dud competitively so it never got any significant playtime). So now instead of getting that sudden wave of interest on the new one like you'd expect it's fairly split between old and new; hell at most of the recent tournaments Melee has been getting far more numbers. It's really going to come down to what this year looks like, if people start to move over and 4 begins drawing larger numbers then I'm not sure Melee will be around next year; however if Melee is still far and away considered the best competitively and numbers-wise then we'll see it again, maybe even in place of 4 (assuming Nintendo doesn't force 4 instead of Melee).

@thunderslash I'm excited to see it there but it does still seem like an odd choice. Going in I was actually expecting DOA5 as the 3D fighter because it's getting updated, and they've been doing a good job of promoting the community around it doing things like invitationals and sponsoring tournaments. I've seen more DOA5 gameplay in the past month or so then I've ever seen since it came out. However as has been brought up every time it's mentioned the problem is that scene is still fairly casual comparatively, and what DOA is is an issue; I still hide my screen if I'm in public watching a match and DOA comes on because it's a bunch of attractive women with giant breasts in bikinis fighting (and seems players often choose the bikinis). I like playing it and have enjoyed what I've watched of it but it still has that effect which is a huge turnoff for a lot of people.

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#8 Edited by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

Earlier today Joey "Mr. Wizard" Cuellar and Mike "Mike Ross" Ross went on Twitch and announced the games that will be at EVO this year! And they are (in order they were announced):

  • Ultra Street Fighter IV
  • Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3
  • Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
  • Guilty Gear Xrd -Sign-
  • Killer Instinct
  • Mortal Kombat X
  • Persona 4 Arena Ultimax (?!)
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee
  • Tekken 7(!!)

So a crazy year. This is the first time I know of where there's been 2 anime games (P4 and GG) and 2 Smash Bros. games. First I'm surprised to see P4U in there, the community around that hasn't felt as huge in the US versus BlazBlue but it has a giant scene in Japan; many of the top players from there said they were going to come out if it was at EVO which I assume is a large reason why it's in there over BlazBlue in addition to the recent updates. I haven't stuck with it as much but I've always enjoyed watching it and seems like Top 8 usually has a pretty good character variety, there's some characters that seem better than others (someday I'll see that Junpei in Top 8...) but overall I'm happy to see it included. I also wasn't expecting to see both Smash Bros. games with all the other games but not that surprised; APEX had over 1000 entrants in Melee and 600ish? for 4, their scene is huge and it's nice to see them recognize. I wasn't sure KI was going to bet in but also glad they did, Iron Galaxy has been doing some great things both in terms of the game itself and supporting its community so happy to see them get recognized as well. And early word-of-mouth from testers and the like seem pretty positive on MKX competitively; many of the same testers played MK9 and Injustice and expressed some issues that held true for the final release but I haven't seen/heard anything like that for this one so it should be good!

I think the biggest surprise is Tekken 7, which won't actually be released on consoles by the time EVO is out. They're working with Namco/Harada to bring in arcade machines for the event. Markman (of Mad Catz) said they're also working to bring it around to other FGC events for people to get practice as well as having the Friday of the event be dedicated to free play practice.

Any games you guys sad didn't get in? I always love watching KoFXIII but I realize why it didn't get in, and after last year's Grand Finals I would have liked to see BlazBlue back but overall I think it's a great list of games that covers every niche. I'm hoping to watch a little of everything, even Melee assuming they pair down the rules from 4 stock 8 minute 2 out of 3 matches which are painful to watch, even more so when it's 3 out of 5 with the possibility of a reset. Also for any games that didn't get in, Mad Catz usually does a side stream where they have at least Top 8 with prizes for people, I'd imagine Skullgirls and DOA5 at least with the amount those guys have been pushing Last Round, maybe KoFXIII and UNIEL as well?

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#9 Posted by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

I played about 3 hours of the Evolve beta and came away with pretty mixed feelings. I loved playing as the monster, trying to evade the hunters while still farming gives you some good chances to be creative, one match I started out running left for a few seconds to leave tracks that way then went into sneak mode (which leaves no traces) and doubled the other way ; I got to level 2 without seeing another hunter. Another time I was running away, I managed to break line of sit and ducked down behind a cliff, waited until they were a bit past me and my stamina was filled and got away clean. Fights are also fun if you get caught early as it becomes more about surviving until the shield goes down than killing everyone which can also lead to fun tactics like throwing a rock to knock them down, climbing a cliff then leap smashing down when they try to chase buying you a few more seconds.

On the other hand playing as the hunters alternates between boring and annoying. Running around trying to find the monster for a few minutes sucks and when you do it's pretty much the tank fight from L4D with MMO classes, which is as fun as it sounds. It feels like if the monster has a decent idea about what he's doing the hunters won't have a great time. It seems like the higher level characters have things like the UAV and tracking darts, but as medic that just means I know where I should be running add opposed to thinking I know; it's still just running. Couple that with all the DLC nonsense and think I'm going to wait on it.

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#10 Edited by L1GHTN1N (594 posts) -

Ninja next to Kahn could be Tremor? Brown was always his color and he had a minor nod in the Vita version so possibly, though even that's a long stretch.

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