Reading is for nerds.

@ProfessorEss said:

@l4wd0g: That's the best part about religious debates.

Nine times out of ten the guy arguing for religion can't even answer the most basic of religious trivia, and the guy arguing for science couldn't pass a seventh grade science quiz.

...and then they just sit there calling each other ignorant :P

Woah.. you just fucked this thread over sideways.

There was a Pew Research study recently which found that Atheists / Agnostics were the most knowledgeable about religious topics. People of the Jewish and Mormon faiths also did pretty well, and most protestant denominations scored much lower, with Catholics in the middle; these findings even stayed true after correcting for educational backgrounds.

@l4wd0g: That's the best part about religious debates.

Nine times out of ten the guy arguing for religion can't even answer the most basic of religious trivia, and the guy arguing for science couldn't pass a seventh grade science quiz.

...and then they just sit there calling each other ignorant :P

@l4wd0g: Atheists use the bible to push their agenda?

lolwut?

@CaLe said:

Ignorance breeds ignorance. Teaching a developing mind to 'believe' or 'have faith' in any form of religion should be illegal. I'm sure a lot of the people who believe in any form of religion today simply didn't have any choice in the matter. Their developing mind was corrupted by their ignorant parents.

As much as I hate trashing peoples' beliefs and how they got to them, this is very true for a lot of them. I have two friends that, while I love them to death, are so ingrained in their parents' teachings that I have to choose my words carefully. I've literally dropped entire conversations as soon as they walk into a room. And they both have a strict religious upbringing in common. It's disappointing, to say the least.

While I kind of agree with what the OP is getting at here, I'd just like to say that I have never been polled for any of the shit that I see statistics on regarding any subject. I don't trust stats unless I get sample sizes, region specifics, and other important details.

@DriveupLife said:

How do other people's beliefs affect you? Just write them off, choose your own crowd and don't try to figure out why it is the way it is. If they're in your face, walk around them and don't bother giving them attention. Problem solved.

That's not an appropriate response when 'Teach the Controversy' and anti gay marriage laws are a reality.

@l4wd0g said:

Only 10 percent of American teenagers can name all five major world religions and 15 percent cannot name any.

I honestly view this as a good thing, but that's beside the point really.

I don't care that the majority of the country is ignorant. I just don't anymore. I know that I myself am not ignorant to the world religions, so if someone's gonna lump me in with the rest of my country and assume I'm a dumb twat (not saying that was your intention OP) then let them. Because that's ignorant too. Not only that, but I'd have a hard time believing the US is the only country with similar statistics.

When your country accepts everyone of all classes, races, types, and intelligence, this is what happens.

I'm proud, however, to know that I live my life the way I choose and those around me can live theirs within education or ignorance if that is their choosing. It angers me from time to time when the general populace proves it's stereotype, but than how would I know if I was smarter than the average bear?

get used to it, OP. most times the loudest people are just the folks who need to be listening. Because sensationalism sells, you're really only going to hear the most vocal and controversial things being said. When it comes to matters of faith, of course it's going to get heated, and the back and forth is definitely going to get emotional. and the dumbest is going to shout the loudest. Pick your fights, and always James 1:19

@Steve5513 said:

Anyway, it doesn't matter if every person on the planet spent their life researching the Bible and studying ancient Greek and Hebrew. They will make the Bible support their views. If they hate gays, they'll find a passage that supports their hatred and ignore the ones that tell you to treat all people well. If they don't hate gays and think that they should have equal rights, they will find a passage that supports that, while ignoring the ones telling the reader to kill gay people.

Cherrypicking passages is a big problem, made worse by the dangerous belief many people have that anything said in the bible is not only law, but untouchable truth. The fact is that almost all religious texts come from a time when humanity understood F all about the world around them, so looking to them for an infallible guide to everything is nonsensical.

I'm an atheist, but I think kids having a good understanding of all of the major religions is important in helping them learn tolerance. This is important when tied with history because it can help you understand the viewpoints of civilisations and why they did what they did, and how that has influenced the way things are now.

Our Religious Studies class in school was pretty terrible. I've learned more from the Crash Course videos on YouTube.

Religion is inherently ignorant.

Everybody is different in their own special way.

I really don't see what the point of this thread is. Your premise is that people are ignorant of what the bible says. This is something I fully agree with and would also extend to every religious text. So, what's your point? Are you saying that if more people understood the Bible the same way you do, that they'd be Christian? Or that it would more people Atheist? You don't go any further than the premise.

I'm guessing the OP is either a Christian annoyed that more people don't share his particular version of Christianity or someone who calls themselves Agnostic and thinks that anyone who takes any position other than "All sides are equally valid" is being unreasonable.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if every person on the planet spent their life researching the Bible and studying ancient Greek and Hebrew. They will make the Bible support their views. If they hate gays, they'll find a passage that supports their hatred and ignore the ones that tell you to treat all people well. If they don't hate gays and think that they should have equal rights, they will find a passage that supports that, while ignoring the ones telling the reader to kill gay people.

@Draxyle said:

I do wish that religious studies were a bigger thing in grade school. I mean it's fascinating stuff really, just from a historical perspective. You get a better sense of the world and existence in general by exposing yourself to these huge aspects of culture. Heaven forbid we introduce this world-defining stuff into the classrooms on an intellectual level.

But yea, religious education in the US is disgraceful.

In my old school we had to take religion classes up to Junior Cert (so like 11-12 yrs old till 14-15 yrs) and it was supposed to be about all religions but we had a catholic teacher who made it catholicisim class. I think it's very hard to have a general religion class without the teachers personal beliefs getting in the way. It didn't just happen in our school either basically every school has some form of religious education but it teaches a religion while officially its supposed to cover all major world religions.

@TheDudeOfGaming: I know right? I think it's fascinating to see them grow but I'm still not sure whether to take them seriously or as a joke.

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@scalpel said:

I would love it if somebody would clarify what the "atheist agenda" is. If the answer is "the separation of church and state", then you could just as justifiably call it the Christian agenda, or the Jewish agenda; any rational politically-minded person will recognize that the wall that keeps religious influence out of government is monumentally important for the well-being of a country.

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

The Bible is a combination of myths, metaphors and events that actually took place. It's up to you to decide which is which. But you know, if nothing else it truly is a piece of great literature. At the end of the day, so long as you follow the golden rule of being a good duder, I'm cool with whatever you believe in.

Also, this thread will not end well.

Would you agree that there are some ways that are better than others in the task of determining truth from untruth?

Generally yes. In the case of the Bible? I doubt it.

@supamon: I heard about those guys, that is so freaking awesome!

Why not in the case of the Bible?

Haters gonna hate... women, gay people. Vote atheist :)

@scalpel said:

I would love it if somebody would clarify what the "atheist agenda" is. If the answer is "the separation of church and state", then you could just as justifiably call it the Christian agenda, or the Jewish agenda; any rational politically-minded person will recognize that the wall that keeps religious influence out of government is monumentally important for the well-being of a country.

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

The Bible is a combination of myths, metaphors and events that actually took place. It's up to you to decide which is which. But you know, if nothing else it truly is a piece of great literature. At the end of the day, so long as you follow the golden rule of being a good duder, I'm cool with whatever you believe in.

Also, this thread will not end well.

Would you agree that there are some ways that are better than others in the task of determining truth from untruth?

Generally yes. In the case of the Bible? I doubt it.

@supamon: I heard about those guys, that is so freaking awesome!

@frankfartmouth said:

"Hold on, we have to wait on ole Jeb over here to saunter over cuz he gets to pull his lever twice."

This one is in actually in the bible. Mark 14:31.

See? Backed up by the bible. Pushing my agenda like nobody's business.

I'll just leave this here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_Church_of_Kopimism

If the Deep South and a couple of Midwest states were removed, America would be a totally different place socially and politically (and that would be a small percentage of the population). Even if they were kept in, but we just changed to direct democracy and removed the electoral college and changed the Senate to be apportioned rather than 2 per state, it would be a lot different. Ignorant people exist everywhere, it's just that in America, they're more politically empowered than they should be. That's why we're still struggling to get legislation like gay marriage to pass despite the fact that polling shows the majority of the country supports it. "Hold on, we have to wait on ole Jeb over here to saunter over cuz he gets to pull his lever twice." It's this structure that allows ignorant fundamentalists to influence the system more than they should.

I would love it if somebody would clarify what the "atheist agenda" is. If the answer is "the separation of church and state", then you could just as justifiably call it the Christian agenda, or the Jewish agenda; any rational politically-minded person will recognize that the wall that keeps religious influence out of government is monumentally important for the well-being of a country.

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

The Bible is a combination of myths, metaphors and events that actually took place. It's up to you to decide which is which. But you know, if nothing else it truly is a piece of great literature. At the end of the day, so long as you follow the golden rule of being a good duder, I'm cool with whatever you believe in.

Also, this thread will not end well.

Would you agree that there are some ways that are better than others in the task of determining truth from untruth?

The Bible is a combination of myths, metaphors and events that actually took place. It's up to you to decide which is which. But you know, if nothing else it truly is a piece of great literature. At the end of the day, so long as you follow the golden rule of being a good duder, I'm cool with whatever you believe in.

Also, this thread will not end well.

@Whamola:

Whether people find the bible interesting to read is I suspect entirely subjective, but what is undeniable is the context it provides for much of the literature, art and architecture

produced in the past two millennia. For example, one would probably gain a deeper appreciation for a painting like the Last Supper if they knew the story behind it, so the bible at least worth that much.

However, I feel it goes without saying that looking for a moral compass in that book that is relevant today is a near pointless exercise. As for those who would enforce religious dogma over reason and common morality, it should be obvious that this is out of the question.

@l4wd0g said:

Atheists, 'Christians,' followers of Christ, Political groups and the like all use the Bible to push their agenda.

Thank you for including Atheists to this. I cannot tell you how many times I have debated with both the devout and Atheists who lack any real knowledge of what they are trying to preach.

You cannot hold the bible in the air and use it to try to sway others into a certain mindset when you, yourself haven't even read it.

EDIT

@Whamola said:

I

My point is, you really don't need to read the bible to criticize religion. That's like saying you have to have seen The Hidden Fortress in order to call Star Wars a crappy movie. Religion is so far removed from its source material that it's an entirely different thing. Although, I'd have to say, I'm glad most religious people don't follow the bible because women would have no rights at all, most children would not survive until adulthood, and life would be incredibly boring.

You don't need the bible to criticize religion, but when you use it's teachings and scriptures as a way to prove your point when you yourself haven't even read or at least studied it, it makes you (not you silly) look stupid.

I've read quite a bit of the bible. It's not hard to realize it was written by multiple people. It ranges from poorly written, milquetoast, masochistic, sadistic, to just very generic. It's just a very uninteresting book when looked at from a literary perspective. Honestly, if you want a book that describes humanity and what it means to be human, I'd suggest Albert Camus' The Plague.

My point is, you really don't need to read the bible to criticize religion. That's like saying you have to have seen The Hidden Fortress in order to call Star Wars a crappy movie. Religion is so far removed from its source material that it's an entirely different thing. Although, I'd have to say, I'm glad most religious people don't follow the bible because women would have no rights at all, most children would not survive until adulthood, and life would be incredibly boring.

I approve of this rant.

@DriveupLife said:

How do other people's beliefs affect you? Just write them off, choose your own crowd and don't try to figure out why it is the way it is. If they're in your face, walk around them and don't bother giving them attention. Problem solved.

The problem here is that Freedom of Religion allows people to believe whatever they want, and act accordingly. Major issues arise when those people try to push their religious views into National Policy. We have the Separation of Church and State for a reasons. Sadly it's not as simple as walking away.

I do wish that religious studies were a bigger thing in grade school. I mean it's fascinating stuff really, just from a historical perspective. You get a better sense of the world and existence in general by exposing yourself to these huge aspects of culture. Heaven forbid we introduce this world-defining stuff into the classrooms on an intellectual level.

But yea, religious education in the US is disgraceful.

@wewantsthering said:

@l4wd0g said:

Only 10 percent of American teenagers can name all five major world religions and 15 percent cannot name any.

Where did you get that stat? Sounds fake to me...15% can't even come up with Catholicism and Christianity? I highly doubt that...

Catholicism is a division of Christianity.

@Animasta said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@Animasta: It's Judaism

according to wikipedia, that's just not true, unless you mean in the west...

That's by number of worshippers. Judaism is considered a major religion because it's the religion where Christianity and Islam originally came from, hence the three being called Abrahamic Religions.

@No0b0rAmA said:

@Animasta: It's Judaism

according to wikipedia, that's just not true, unless you mean in the west...

@Animasta said:

I dunno what the 5th of the major 5 would be (the other 4 being christianity, islam, hindu and buddhism)... Confucianism/Taoism? Shinto? Judaism?

Really? Really?!

@Animasta: It's Judaism

I dunno what the 5th of the major 5 would be (the other 4 being christianity, islam, hindu and buddhism)... Confucianism/Taoism? Shinto? Judaism?

@Demoskinos said:

@wewantsthering said:

@l4wd0g said:

Only 10 percent of American teenagers can name all five major world religions and 15 percent cannot name any.

Where did you get that stat? Sounds fake to me...15% can't even come up with Catholicism and Christianity? I highly doubt that...

You'd be surprised how many people lump both of those together.

I understand that, but that's not what I was talking about. lol I was saying that his quote said they couldn't even come up with a single one. They would at least have come up with one of those.

@wewantsthering said:

@l4wd0g said:

Only 10 percent of American teenagers can name all five major world religions and 15 percent cannot name any.

Where did you get that stat? Sounds fake to me...15% can't even come up with Catholicism and Christianity? I highly doubt that...

You'd be surprised how many people lump both of those together.

@MikeGosot: But, that's what he said.

something something 1 third don't know stuff something something bible something

Woah, woah, woah.

Are you going to sit there, and try to tell me that religious people are ignorant?

I am shocked.

Woah, woah, woah.

Are you going to sit there, and try to tell me that religious people are ignorant?

I am shocked.

This isn't going to end well.

Also, I'll accept that a disappointingly large percentage of Americans cannot name five major religions - I know, I live here - but not that small. As far as naming the four gospels, I'll believe that one too but, again, not that small. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - not a difficult thing to remember.

I think it is a problem in all arenas of debate that people decide what they believe and then find the facts that fit that viewpoint and ignore discredit everything else.

I also have not read the whole Bible but from what I have seen it seems so contradictory and vague in parts that people can use in anyway they chose.

'If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman.....he shall surely be put to death' vs 'Thou shalt no kill'

@No0b0rAmA said:

@wewantsthering said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@wewantsthering said:

@l4wd0g said:

Only 10 percent of American teenagers can name all five major world religions and 15 percent cannot name any.

Where did you get that stat? Sounds fake to me...15% can't even come up with Catholicism and Christianity? I highly doubt that...

Catholicism is a division of Christianity.

Either way you slice it, that's more than zero. Haha. "cannot name any."

I'm assuming he got all of these numbers from this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Literacy-American-Know-And-Doesnt/dp/0060859520

From the reviews on the book, it doesn't seem super credible. Haha. I just have a hard time believing a stat like. It's really easy to stretch/take out of contrext stats to make your agenda sound solid.

Ignorance breeds ignorance. Teaching a developing mind to 'believe' or 'have faith' in any form of religion should be illegal. I'm sure a lot of the people who believe in any form of religion today simply didn't have any choice in the matter. Their developing mind was corrupted by their ignorant parents.

@wewantsthering said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@wewantsthering said:

@l4wd0g said:

Only 10 percent of American teenagers can name all five major world religions and 15 percent cannot name any.

Where did you get that stat? Sounds fake to me...15% can't even come up with Catholicism and Christianity? I highly doubt that...

Catholicism is a division of Christianity.

Either way you slice it, that's more than zero. Haha. "cannot name any."

I'm assuming he got all of these numbers from this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Literacy-American-Know-And-Doesnt/dp/0060859520

Really seems like the internet destroyed one of church's major functions as a weekly social gathering, and because of that people just aren't exposed to it anymore. It's a shame too, because while religious literature is commonly used to incite it's actually a wonderful source of teaching people to be kind and understanding (if read with that intention anyway). But since America's still a nation founded by people seeking religious freedom it's rooted in everything that is American, including politics.

I plan on teaching my children about all the different religions so they're well rounded individuals when they grow up.

well i don't have a thing for religion as i find it boring. i went to church when i was younger and then stopped going.

this thread is going to end well i think. people are going to read it and then start trolling other people.