The Dark Side of an All-Digital Future

With rumors of an all-digital next generation (Microsoft and Sony) I have some serious reservation about the price of the content. When we look at DLC (which, for the most part is restricted to consoles connected to the Internet) they stay at the same price. Look at the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect, Call of Duty: Black Ops, Modern Warfare 2, or any other game, you’ll notice that the prices haven’t decreased. Why? Simply, there isn’t a need to. Yes, they’ll go on sale occasionally, but they stay at the same price point (for the most part).

Retailers will put games on sale to lure costumers into their stores with the hope of driving additional business. When we loss this, there is the strong potential for games to remain at their original price point. They have almost no incentive to lower the price. E. g. when I bought Battle Field 3 on Origin it was $60. Now it’s $40, but that is because the retail price dropped first, and you can still buy it cheaper from retail.

Mass Effect 3 is on sale at Target for $49.99 this week. That’s a great value for the price. If it was solely on Origen you’d be forced to pay the $60, and people will pay it. If you really want to play the game, you’ll have to pay the price. Maybe the price will drop on Origin after 6-12 months. Do we really want to wait that long to play the new hotness? If the retail prices remain at $60 for eternity, would Origin ever drop the price?

Businesses are in it to make money. I get it. They aren’t producing games solely for us to enjoy. When we take retail out of the picture, and we are stuck buying directly from Microsoft or Sony the future isn’t bright.

44 Comments
45 Comments
Posted by l4wd0g

With rumors of an all-digital next generation (Microsoft and Sony) I have some serious reservation about the price of the content. When we look at DLC (which, for the most part is restricted to consoles connected to the Internet) they stay at the same price. Look at the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect, Call of Duty: Black Ops, Modern Warfare 2, or any other game, you’ll notice that the prices haven’t decreased. Why? Simply, there isn’t a need to. Yes, they’ll go on sale occasionally, but they stay at the same price point (for the most part).

Retailers will put games on sale to lure costumers into their stores with the hope of driving additional business. When we loss this, there is the strong potential for games to remain at their original price point. They have almost no incentive to lower the price. E. g. when I bought Battle Field 3 on Origin it was $60. Now it’s $40, but that is because the retail price dropped first, and you can still buy it cheaper from retail.

Mass Effect 3 is on sale at Target for $49.99 this week. That’s a great value for the price. If it was solely on Origen you’d be forced to pay the $60, and people will pay it. If you really want to play the game, you’ll have to pay the price. Maybe the price will drop on Origin after 6-12 months. Do we really want to wait that long to play the new hotness? If the retail prices remain at $60 for eternity, would Origin ever drop the price?

Businesses are in it to make money. I get it. They aren’t producing games solely for us to enjoy. When we take retail out of the picture, and we are stuck buying directly from Microsoft or Sony the future isn’t bright.

Posted by l4wd0g

Competition between retail and digital services is paramount to the consumer.

Posted by ChaosDent

Steam has shown pretty conclusively that price drops do work to boost sales of digital products over time. Their big sales events tend to produce significant gains in revenue for the games that go on sale through increased volume despite price cuts up to 75%. Even assuming that Mass Effect 3 was only available on Origin and Origin decided to never drop the price below $60 (which is unlikely), the only people that will affect are the people who want Mass Effect 3. The people who want some game at $40 or $20 won't ever look at Mass Effect 3. Who loses there? Only EA as far as I can see. 

In the near term at least, competition between game publishers and platforms will keep prices in line with what we are willing to pay. There are more than half a dozen download or streaming game services selling or renting many of the same games on Windows, not to mention the incredible growing juggernaut that is the IOS ecosystem or the social gaming phenomenon associated with Facebook. If the consoles want to compete, they will need to be just as flexible as these other platforms. I expect most of the pricing restrictions Microsoft has in place for the 360 that have largely dictated the way online titles are priced on consoles will go away with their next Xbox.

Posted by Slag

@l4wd0g said:

Retailers will put games on sale to lure costumers into their stores with the hope of driving additional business. When we loss this, there is the strong potential for games to remain at their original price point. They have almost no incentive to lower the price. E. g. when I bought Battle Field 3 on Origin it was $60. Now it’s $40, but that is because the retail price dropped first, and you can still buy it cheaper from retail.

Mass Effect 3 is on sale at Target for $49.99 this week. That’s a great value for the price. If it was solely on Origen you’d be forced to pay the $60, and people will pay it. If you really want to play the game, you’ll have to pay the price. Maybe the price will drop on Origin after 6-12 months. Do we really want to wait that long to play the new hotness? If the retail prices remain at $60 for eternity, would Origin ever drop the price?

Retail is a very competitive business and no doubt it helps keeps prices low for consumers when there is lots of retailers of the same type.

That being said I'm not so sure I agree with your take. If EA were to solely sell their games and not have retail partners whether Amazon, Steam or brick and mortars they may have a more captive audience but it's a much much smaller one. I think they would discover pretty quickly they'd lose too much volume and exposure for their titles by exclusively vending their titles.

Mind share is powerful stuff and once lost is hard to regain, if I had to bet, I'd bet EA will always have some sort of other outlet for their products even if it's just online retailers.

Online
Posted by bighat_logan

Plus why the fuck does a digital game cost $60, when the company didn't have to pay for boxes, discs, shipping to the store and all that.

Edited by Sooty

If the next consoles go 100% digital (they won't) then I won't buy them because the pricing for retail games on both XBLM and PSN is a total and utter farce.

It needs to be like PC where there's DD vendors as well as retailers all trying to get your money. Sony and Microsoft won't allow that, and it could very well be a grave problem.

If it's like the PC situation where you can still buy them retail and just put the code in or something then that works. At least it allows competition for the boxed copies.

Posted by Fearbeard

The market for PC games shows that you can be almost exclusively digital, and still have fantastic sales and prices. The problem has more to do with either Microsoft or Sony being the sole distributor of the content more then the fact that there would be no physical retail option.

Posted by Brians

Damn those costumers

Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock

This is a problem. While Valve are awsome and generally loved by gamers. It's clear with Origin EA are cunts who do not comprehend why Valve are successful. It's alot more than just fucking cloning steam.

Valve embraced modding. Attempt to give as much value as possible. Attempt to help indie developers. Polish games like fuck and support them for extended periods of time. EA with Origin from the get go have bumped the price up as high as they could, with-held content and tried to fuck you in every way possible hoping you are as dumb as a rock. Origin will fail in the long run. Games need steam to sell. Origin needs games to sell.

Posted by Doctorchimp

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Posted by Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Posted by MariachiMacabre
@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Yep because Steam has been a disaster. All digital has already been done and proven it can work. If Sony made an all digital console and a dev or publisher chose to have DRM, that dev or publisher would suffer long before Sony.
Posted by Pinworm45

@Jay444111 said:

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Physical copies aren't exempt from any of that..

Edited by EpicSteve

DUDE THOSE HOLIDAY STEAM SALES ARE THE SHIT!

I live this dream of being an old-ass man with some crazy 500 TB harddrive fulled with thousands of games I've played over the years.

Edited by Jay444111

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Yep because Steam has been a disaster. All digital has already been done and proven it can work. If Sony made an all digital console and a dev or publisher chose to have DRM, that dev or publisher would suffer long before Sony.

Steam is the only good DRM. Origin somewhat. (has the same damn EULA pretty much.)

And Sony DID do a digital only console, it failed, hard. Who actually even OWNS a PSPgo anymore? No one, that's who. It was a failure and will happen to any console that goes digital only/online only/number activation online.

Digital just HAS to be a choice, just like PC games even. I can get fallout new vegas on disc or on Steam. Depends if I want digital or physical. That is all digital can be, a option. If consoles just did Digital only, then they may as well stop selling consoles and just make a Steam like store on PC because that is basically what it is going to be unless they want to fail in terms of sales.

Sony is terrible overall about online stores, Microsoft is fucking WORSE than any DRM or any digital seller.

Digital only will kill consoles, and that is a fact. Hell, Nintendo is probably going to be the smart one and ALLOW people to buy used games on it. They will most likely make more money than both the PS4 and Xbox 720 combined in their lifetimes sales in one day. I am honestly that confidant that no one would bother with DRM as bad as those two have shown they do.

Posted by ajamafalous

Steam sure bombed pretty hard huh.

Posted by Doctorchimp

@Jay444111 said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Yep because Steam has been a disaster. All digital has already been done and proven it can work. If Sony made an all digital console and a dev or publisher chose to have DRM, that dev or publisher would suffer long before Sony.

Steam is the only good DRM. Origin somewhat. (has the same damn EULA pretty much.)

And Sony DID do a digital only console, it failed, hard. Who actually even OWNS a PSPgo anymore? No one, that's who. It was a failure and will happen to any console that goes digital only/online only/number activation online.

Digital just HAS to be a choice, just like PC games even. I can get fallout new vegas on disc or on Steam. Depends if I want digital or physical. That is all digital can be, a option. If consoles just did Digital only, then they may as well stop selling consoles and just make a Steam like store on PC because that is basically what it is going to be unless they want to fail in terms of sales.

Sony is terrible overall about online stores, Microsoft is fucking WORSE than any DRM or any digital seller.

Digital only will kill consoles, and that is a fact. Hell, Nintendo is probably going to be the smart one and ALLOW people to buy used games on it. They will most likely make more money than both the PS4 and Xbox 720 combined in their lifetimes sales in one day. I am honestly that confidant that no one would bother with DRM as bad as those two have shown they do.

I've never seen a post actually typed by the pressure of hot air. Good job.

Posted by Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

@Jay444111 said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Yep because Steam has been a disaster. All digital has already been done and proven it can work. If Sony made an all digital console and a dev or publisher chose to have DRM, that dev or publisher would suffer long before Sony.

Steam is the only good DRM. Origin somewhat. (has the same damn EULA pretty much.)

And Sony DID do a digital only console, it failed, hard. Who actually even OWNS a PSPgo anymore? No one, that's who. It was a failure and will happen to any console that goes digital only/online only/number activation online.

Digital just HAS to be a choice, just like PC games even. I can get fallout new vegas on disc or on Steam. Depends if I want digital or physical. That is all digital can be, a option. If consoles just did Digital only, then they may as well stop selling consoles and just make a Steam like store on PC because that is basically what it is going to be unless they want to fail in terms of sales.

Sony is terrible overall about online stores, Microsoft is fucking WORSE than any DRM or any digital seller.

Digital only will kill consoles, and that is a fact. Hell, Nintendo is probably going to be the smart one and ALLOW people to buy used games on it. They will most likely make more money than both the PS4 and Xbox 720 combined in their lifetimes sales in one day. I am honestly that confidant that no one would bother with DRM as bad as those two have shown they do.

I've never seen a post actually typed by the pressure of hot air. Good job.

And you like to post stuff that is easily going to crash the industry as we know it.

DRM, Online passes, hell, even cost is going to fuck gamers in the ass so hard that it won't be funny.

I have an example. Ever play FEAR1? That game had an online mode which had downloadable content for said online multiplayer... which shut down years ago. Guess what is still there though? Yep, the DLC and it's 10 dollar glory. Thankfully I didn't buy it yet I do know a guy who did sadly.

DLC on any system has NEVER and I truly do mean, NEVER gone down in price unless there was a rare sale.

Also the DRM on PC's is BAD??? Ever expierence problems with Windows live ID like I have, you will know MS is NOTHING but shit when it comes to this. Basically, if your Live ID fucks up, and your xbox breaks. well... better spend all the money and stuff again so you can get it back because we CAN'T bring your GT back from the void again! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The next consoles will fail, I am willing to literally cut my balls and dick off as a starting bet just to prove this. I only say that when I am so completely sure on this kind of stuff.

Posted by Raven10

I think the problem would more be that there would be only one retailer for the game (MS or Sony). The great thing about the PC is that Steam has competition from Origin, and Impulse, and a couple others, which makes all of them drop prices to keep customers. I've saved more money on Steam sales than I ever did on buying a game used on a console. Hell I paid like $20 for the new Need For Speed a month of something after release during the big Origin holiday sale. It sells for more than that still on consoles. If there were regular heavy sales on consoles then I wouldn't mind. I just have to wonder if there would be. There are sales on consoles though. Live has weekly sales, and they do price drops on a monthly basis. I would hope for major sales, but I worry that there wouldn't be and games would all be $60 forever. I guess we'll see.

Posted by VelourMustache

It wouldn't ruin video gaming. That is absurd.

First, and most importantly: Microsoft and Sony would not be the sole arbiter of pricing in a digital-only environment. That is insane. No publisher would even think of putting out an Xbox or Playstation game if it meant that they had no control over how much their product costs.

Second: it wouldn't eliminate bargains and sales. You'd still see "buy one, get one" offers and stuff like that. In fact, it might even create the free weekend promotions for console games.

Third: Price drops would still happen at a similar pace. Some people don't want to pay $60 for games, and publishers are well aware of that. The whole point of dropping price is to convince the late-comers to buy.

Lastly (this is probably the most important, I guess): It's not gonna happen. There are still way too many consumers who don't have broadband access. A digital-only console could totally happen, but it certainly wouldn't be one of the main competitors and would probably resemble something closer to a purpose-built gaming PC.

Posted by Radar

Microsoft and Sony have done sales on their disc based downloadable games. Not only that, but after a certain amount of time has passed they will drop the price (just like the physical version. $60 -> $20). The only thing we WON'T get is the clearing of inventory sales that retailing have to do.

@l4wd0g said:

Competition between retail and digital services is paramount to the consumer.

There's currently no competition between retail and digital services... If you're looking at PC games or music then digital is in the mass majority and retail isn't competitively pricing their products.

Posted by mabber36

just stick to steam, then, which regularly has crazy

Posted by MariachiMacabre
@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

@Jay444111 said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Yep because Steam has been a disaster. All digital has already been done and proven it can work. If Sony made an all digital console and a dev or publisher chose to have DRM, that dev or publisher would suffer long before Sony.

Steam is the only good DRM. Origin somewhat. (has the same damn EULA pretty much.)

And Sony DID do a digital only console, it failed, hard. Who actually even OWNS a PSPgo anymore? No one, that's who. It was a failure and will happen to any console that goes digital only/online only/number activation online.

Digital just HAS to be a choice, just like PC games even. I can get fallout new vegas on disc or on Steam. Depends if I want digital or physical. That is all digital can be, a option. If consoles just did Digital only, then they may as well stop selling consoles and just make a Steam like store on PC because that is basically what it is going to be unless they want to fail in terms of sales.

Sony is terrible overall about online stores, Microsoft is fucking WORSE than any DRM or any digital seller.

Digital only will kill consoles, and that is a fact. Hell, Nintendo is probably going to be the smart one and ALLOW people to buy used games on it. They will most likely make more money than both the PS4 and Xbox 720 combined in their lifetimes sales in one day. I am honestly that confidant that no one would bother with DRM as bad as those two have shown they do.

I've never seen a post actually typed by the pressure of hot air. Good job.

And you like to post stuff that is easily going to crash the industry as we know it.

DRM, Online passes, hell, even cost is going to fuck gamers in the ass so hard that it won't be funny.

I have an example. Ever play FEAR1? That game had an online mode which had downloadable content for said online multiplayer... which shut down years ago. Guess what is still there though? Yep, the DLC and it's 10 dollar glory. Thankfully I didn't buy it yet I do know a guy who did sadly.

DLC on any system has NEVER and I truly do mean, NEVER gone down in price unless there was a rare sale.

Also the DRM on PC's is BAD??? Ever expierence problems with Windows live ID like I have, you will know MS is NOTHING but shit when it comes to this. Basically, if your Live ID fucks up, and your xbox breaks. well... better spend all the money and stuff again so you can get it back because we CAN'T bring your GT back from the void again! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The next consoles will fail, I am willing to literally cut my balls and dick off as a starting bet just to prove this. I only say that when I am so completely sure on this kind of stuff.

Better cut your balls off then because you're wrong here, just like every other time you start Doomsaying over every little thing. Grow up and stop Overreacting to everything, fuck.
Posted by Galiant
@l4wd0g

With rumors of an all-digital next generation (Microsoft and Sony) I have some serious reservation about the price of the content. When we look at DLC (which, for the most part is restricted to consoles connected to the Internet) they stay at the same price. Look at the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect, Call of Duty: Black Ops, Modern Warfare 2, or any other game, you’ll notice that the prices haven’t decreased. Why? Simply, there isn’t a need to. Yes, they’ll go on sale occasionally, but they stay at the same price point (for the most part).

Retailers will put games on sale to lure costumers into their stores with the hope of driving additional business. When we loss this, there is the strong potential for games to remain at their original price point. They have almost no incentive to lower the price. E. g. when I bought Battle Field 3 on Origin it was $60. Now it’s $40, but that is because the retail price dropped first, and you can still buy it cheaper from retail.

Mass Effect 3 is on sale at Target for $49.99 this week. That’s a great value for the price. If it was solely on Origen you’d be forced to pay the $60, and people will pay it. If you really want to play the game, you’ll have to pay the price. Maybe the price will drop on Origin after 6-12 months. Do we really want to wait that long to play the new hotness? If the retail prices remain at $60 for eternity, would Origin ever drop the price?

Businesses are in it to make money. I get it. They aren’t producing games solely for us to enjoy. When we take retail out of the picture, and we are stuck buying directly from Microsoft or Sony the future isn’t bright.

@l4wd0g Steam has plenty of sales. I don't see your point.
Posted by Pobearo

@ChaosDent: Steam has also shown that Valve is pretty much the one gaming company that actually cares about its customers. Just look at origin. From what I can tell Microsoft and Sony really don't care about their customers the same way valve does, and will look to maximize profits no matter what.

Posted by mosdl

@l4wd0g said:

If it was solely on Origen you’d be forced to pay the $60, and people will pay it. If you really want to play the game, you’ll have to pay the price. Maybe the price will drop on Origin after 6-12 months. Do we really want to wait that long to play the new hotness? If the retail prices remain at $60 for eternity, would Origin ever drop the price?

BF3 is Origin only and there have been major sales for it. And the only reason Target has games on sale is to get you into the store so you buy other stuff - loss leaders. Low prices in retail aren't usually competition based.

Posted by Jay444111

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

@Jay444111 said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Yep because Steam has been a disaster. All digital has already been done and proven it can work. If Sony made an all digital console and a dev or publisher chose to have DRM, that dev or publisher would suffer long before Sony.

Steam is the only good DRM. Origin somewhat. (has the same damn EULA pretty much.)

And Sony DID do a digital only console, it failed, hard. Who actually even OWNS a PSPgo anymore? No one, that's who. It was a failure and will happen to any console that goes digital only/online only/number activation online.

Digital just HAS to be a choice, just like PC games even. I can get fallout new vegas on disc or on Steam. Depends if I want digital or physical. That is all digital can be, a option. If consoles just did Digital only, then they may as well stop selling consoles and just make a Steam like store on PC because that is basically what it is going to be unless they want to fail in terms of sales.

Sony is terrible overall about online stores, Microsoft is fucking WORSE than any DRM or any digital seller.

Digital only will kill consoles, and that is a fact. Hell, Nintendo is probably going to be the smart one and ALLOW people to buy used games on it. They will most likely make more money than both the PS4 and Xbox 720 combined in their lifetimes sales in one day. I am honestly that confidant that no one would bother with DRM as bad as those two have shown they do.

I've never seen a post actually typed by the pressure of hot air. Good job.

And you like to post stuff that is easily going to crash the industry as we know it.

DRM, Online passes, hell, even cost is going to fuck gamers in the ass so hard that it won't be funny.

I have an example. Ever play FEAR1? That game had an online mode which had downloadable content for said online multiplayer... which shut down years ago. Guess what is still there though? Yep, the DLC and it's 10 dollar glory. Thankfully I didn't buy it yet I do know a guy who did sadly.

DLC on any system has NEVER and I truly do mean, NEVER gone down in price unless there was a rare sale.

Also the DRM on PC's is BAD??? Ever expierence problems with Windows live ID like I have, you will know MS is NOTHING but shit when it comes to this. Basically, if your Live ID fucks up, and your xbox breaks. well... better spend all the money and stuff again so you can get it back because we CAN'T bring your GT back from the void again! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The next consoles will fail, I am willing to literally cut my balls and dick off as a starting bet just to prove this. I only say that when I am so completely sure on this kind of stuff.

Better cut your balls off then because you're wrong here, just like every other time you start Doomsaying over every little thing. Grow up and stop Overreacting to everything, fuck.

Considering I am one of the many people who HAVE faced a digital future and got burned by it. I am going to say what I myself have expierenced EVERY DAMN DAY. Digital only is a fucking TERRIBLE idea and no used games is only going to have negative reactions happen. Hell, tell me this, Have you found a new copy of Assassins creed 1 in any store in the past five months? No? That is all the new copies were sold and their are only used copies of that game now!

No used is is like invisible cancer! You don't know it is there until it murders you!

Digital only needs to be an option. If it goes beyond that than it becomes almost Orwellian. That is a flat out fact!

Posted by SlasherMan

@Jay444111 said:

Steam No DRM is the only good DRM.

Seriously, Valve have yet to manage getting the offline mode in Steam to work properly (as in, have it actually work when I unexpectedly lose my internet connection and not have them expect me to have some psychic ability where I can tell in advance that I'm going to have an internet outage, and manage to switch it to offline mode when I still have a connection!).

Just today my internet was out for a few hours and I was trying to play some Steam games. I launch Steam, it tells me there's no connection, I tell it to go into offline mode, and then it tells me it couldn't connect to the Steam servers... Seriously? I mean really?

How is it that they still haven't managed to sort this out after all these years?!

Honestly, I realized today that this isn't all that better than Ubi's always-on DRM. I couldn't play a single game until my connection came back.

Posted by MariachiMacabre
@Jay444111

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

@Jay444111 said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Jay444111

@Doctorchimp said:

Don't care I'm not buying the next gen of consoles regardless.

I'm in the all digital future as it is on my console of choice and it's fucking glorious. Fuck disks, we aren't tree people in a clan. It's time to give up our physical totems. Games are software, it's time to get past this anxiety and fear.

Considering the absolutely MASSIVELY stupidity that is currently going on with DRM. Online only, and even Online passes and shit. We need to solve that shit first and foremost before anyone is stupid enough to do a DLC only future. Because the first one that goes in, is going out. That is a fact.

Yep because Steam has been a disaster. All digital has already been done and proven it can work. If Sony made an all digital console and a dev or publisher chose to have DRM, that dev or publisher would suffer long before Sony.

Steam is the only good DRM. Origin somewhat. (has the same damn EULA pretty much.)

And Sony DID do a digital only console, it failed, hard. Who actually even OWNS a PSPgo anymore? No one, that's who. It was a failure and will happen to any console that goes digital only/online only/number activation online.

Digital just HAS to be a choice, just like PC games even. I can get fallout new vegas on disc or on Steam. Depends if I want digital or physical. That is all digital can be, a option. If consoles just did Digital only, then they may as well stop selling consoles and just make a Steam like store on PC because that is basically what it is going to be unless they want to fail in terms of sales.

Sony is terrible overall about online stores, Microsoft is fucking WORSE than any DRM or any digital seller.

Digital only will kill consoles, and that is a fact. Hell, Nintendo is probably going to be the smart one and ALLOW people to buy used games on it. They will most likely make more money than both the PS4 and Xbox 720 combined in their lifetimes sales in one day. I am honestly that confidant that no one would bother with DRM as bad as those two have shown they do.

I've never seen a post actually typed by the pressure of hot air. Good job.

And you like to post stuff that is easily going to crash the industry as we know it.

DRM, Online passes, hell, even cost is going to fuck gamers in the ass so hard that it won't be funny.

I have an example. Ever play FEAR1? That game had an online mode which had downloadable content for said online multiplayer... which shut down years ago. Guess what is still there though? Yep, the DLC and it's 10 dollar glory. Thankfully I didn't buy it yet I do know a guy who did sadly.

DLC on any system has NEVER and I truly do mean, NEVER gone down in price unless there was a rare sale.

Also the DRM on PC's is BAD??? Ever expierence problems with Windows live ID like I have, you will know MS is NOTHING but shit when it comes to this. Basically, if your Live ID fucks up, and your xbox breaks. well... better spend all the money and stuff again so you can get it back because we CAN'T bring your GT back from the void again! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The next consoles will fail, I am willing to literally cut my balls and dick off as a starting bet just to prove this. I only say that when I am so completely sure on this kind of stuff.

Better cut your balls off then because you're wrong here, just like every other time you start Doomsaying over every little thing. Grow up and stop Overreacting to everything, fuck.

Considering I am one of the many people who HAVE faced a digital future and got burned by it. I am going to say what I myself have expierenced EVERY DAMN DAY. Digital only is a fucking TERRIBLE idea and no used games is only going to have negative reactions happen. Hell, tell me this, Have you found a new copy of Assassins creed 1 in any store in the past five months? No? That is all the new copies were sold and their are only used copies of that game now!

No used is is like invisible cancer! You don't know it is there until it murders you!

Digital only needs to be an option. If it goes beyond that than it becomes almost Orwellian. That is a flat out fact!

Look up the meaning to Orwellian because DRM does not equal a police state that murders its citizens for having dissenting views. Jay, stop being so hyperbolic and you'll finally be a normal, semi-functional member of the community. DRM, as it is now, sucks. In the future, once EA realized how shitty they're being, it'll probably be fine. No need to act like every single time something happens that you don't like that the sky is falling. David Jaffe isn't hitler, blah blah etc.
Posted by TheKramer89

@Jay444111 said:

The next consoles will fail, I am willing to literally cut my balls and dick off as a starting bet just to prove this. I only say that when I am so completely sure on this kind of stuff.

Noted.

Posted by Grimluck343

The sheer panic in this thread is amusing.

Posted by VelourMustache

If the new Microsoft and/or Sony consoles are released and have digital-only software distribution, I will pay your subscription to this site. Seriously. Bookmark this page and PM me the link if one of those consoles comes out and there is no plan to distribute games on physical discs.

Posted by Brodehouse

If the DLC is overpriced for the value, you won't buy it and if'll rot on the vine and they'll have to market it down out of necessity.

Or you'll cave. Yeah. That.

Posted by Jay444111

@MariachiMacabre: With how MS and Sony have been approaching Digital stuff online lately. There is literally no chance for a good digital only console to come out of either of them. None at all.

There will never be any drop downs in prices of 5 year old games, as soon as a server is down for a game to buy, it is gone, forever and can never return. You actually don't own most games, even on Steam, you just own the liceanse to let you play it which in itself is going to cause such massive lawsuits sooner or later that staying away from anything to do with digital only consoles would be for the best. Sony is not smart at all. MS is greedy as fuck when it comes to online anything. Windows Live ID is JOKE and even my toilet has better services than them and I am one day going to have to lose all my games because of MS's fucking fault with it's own shit.

Basically, I can see digital only in 10 to 20 years being good. But now? It is a suicidal attempt and people will call them out and sue them when they realize they are unable to play online to a certain game because of liceanse/account/availability no one will buy ANY digital only game system.

Trust me. I know from PERSONAL expierence.

Posted by mrcraggle

Steam has proven that digital only can work because they actually embrace their customers rather than push them away (looking at you EA). I buy stuff all the time on Steam if it's cheap and games are updated without me having to hunt something down like the old days of PC gaming. The weekend sales, mid-week sales and crazy xmas sales are what get people there and devs don't mind the reduced cost as people will buy a game at a lower price even if they are only slightly interested as it's a sale that they may never have had before.

On the console side of things however, we've seen that MS and Sony are too restricting and too in-control. To get good deals on either, you need to have a subscription of sorts. If you want the really good deals on PS3, you need PS+ and MS lock out most discounts to non-gold members. I don't really look at deals on my PS3 very often but in the 360 camp, MS only offer very few games on a weekly basis and fairly often they'll be repeat sales. Steam does this too (DE:HR was on sale twice over a few weeks) but it seems more infrequent and the savings are much higher whereas on 360 you're only saving between 25% - 33% on a game that only costs $15 to start with. Of the retail games on offer, many of them are full price even months after release in store which can be bought for half the price. I know I sound cheap but games in-store depreciate in value and that's how many games see continued sales. Very few people are going to play a game that's full price after a year so why should we pay full price for a digital copy in the same time frame?I know certain publishers would love a digital only future but there needs to be a balance that works out for the devs, publishers and the consumer.

Edited by tourgen

@SlasherMan said:

@Jay444111 said:

Steam No DRM is the only good DRM.

Seriously, Valve have yet to manage getting the offline mode in Steam to work properly (as in, have it actually work when I unexpectedly lose my internet connection and not have them expect me to have some psychic ability where I can tell in advance that I'm going to have an internet outage, and manage to switch it to offline mode when I still have a connection!).

Just today my internet was out for a few hours and I was trying to play some Steam games. I launch Steam, it tells me there's no connection, I tell it to go into offline mode, and then it tells me it couldn't connect to the Steam servers... Seriously? I mean really?

How is it that they still haven't managed to sort this out after all these years?!

Honestly, I realized today that this isn't all that better than Ubi's always-on DRM. I couldn't play a single game until my connection came back.

I've got bad news for you. Offline mode will never "get sorted out". Your experience is exactly how it was intended to work. You see Valve's issue is that they cannot allow someone to go into offline mode without getting authorization from their servers first. Otherwise people would just clone game libraries and play them all in offline mode.

anyway,

There is a lot of crazy going on in this thread, and misinformation

Like people who believe that a single-source distribution channel, wholly controlled by one company, will EVER drop prices. Wow. Econ 101.

Comparing Steam/Valve to a digital-only DRM-locked box is a false analogy. Steam has to exist and be attractive to consumers who have many other options - other online sources, rental disks, retail disks, free-to-play models. A DRM-box does not have to have offer a fair deal. That's the whole idea. That's what has MS and Sony wetting their pants in excitement. You get to take their deal or you get to fuck off. They will never lower DLC prices. They will never lower download-only prices. Just go look for yourself on Xboxlive Marketplace.

The question is are their exclusive services and games going to be enough to get you to buy into the DRM-box again? How important is Halo and Uncharted to you? Maybe not this time. We might see a massive wave of consumers turning away from the console deal this time around.

Posted by Jay444111

@tourgen said:

@SlasherMan said:

@Jay444111 said:

Steam No DRM is the only good DRM.

Seriously, Valve have yet to manage getting the offline mode in Steam to work properly (as in, have it actually work when I unexpectedly lose my internet connection and not have them expect me to have some psychic ability where I can tell in advance that I'm going to have an internet outage, and manage to switch it to offline mode when I still have a connection!).

Just today my internet was out for a few hours and I was trying to play some Steam games. I launch Steam, it tells me there's no connection, I tell it to go into offline mode, and then it tells me it couldn't connect to the Steam servers... Seriously? I mean really?

How is it that they still haven't managed to sort this out after all these years?!

Honestly, I realized today that this isn't all that better than Ubi's always-on DRM. I couldn't play a single game until my connection came back.

I've got bad news for you. Offline mode will never "get sorted out". Your experience is exactly how it was intended to work. You see Valve's issue is that they cannot allow someone to go into offline mode without getting authorization from their servers first. Otherwise people would just clone game libraries and play them all in offline mode.

anyway,

There is a lot of crazy going on in this thread, and misinformation

Like people who believe that a single-source distribution channel, wholly controlled by one company, will EVER drop prices. Wow. Econ 101.

Comparing Steam/Valve to a digital-only DRM-locked box is a false analogy. Steam has to exist and be attractive to consumers who have many other options - other online sources, rental disks, retail disks, free-to-play models. A DRM-box does not have to have offer a fair deal. That's the whole idea. That's what has MS and Sony wetting their pants in excitement. You get to take their deal or you get to fuck off. They will never lower DLC prices. They will never lower download-only prices. Just go look for yourself on Xboxlive Marketplace.

The question is our their exclusive services and games going to be enough to get you to buy into the DRM-box again? How important is Halo and Uncharted to you? Maybe not this time. We might see a massive wave of consumers turning away from the console deal this time around.

THANK YOU! Finally someone gets it!

Posted by xxizzypop

@Jay444111 said:

@MariachiMacabre: With how MS and Sony have been approaching Digital stuff online lately. There is literally no chance for a good digital only console to come out of either of them. None at all.

There will never be any drop downs in prices of 5 year old games, as soon as a server is down for a game to buy, it is gone, forever and can never return. You actually don't own most games, even on Steam, you just own the liceanse to let you play it which in itself is going to cause such massive lawsuits sooner or later that staying away from anything to do with digital only consoles would be for the best. Sony is not smart at all. MS is greedy as fuck when it comes to online anything. Windows Live ID is JOKE and even my toilet has better services than them and I am one day going to have to lose all my games because of MS's fucking fault with it's own shit.

Basically, I can see digital only in 10 to 20 years being good. But now? It is a suicidal attempt and people will call them out and sue them when they realize they are unable to play online to a certain game because of liceanse/account/availability no one will buy ANY digital only game system.

Trust me. I know from PERSONAL expierence.

I think it's fairly understood that in 10 or 20 years it could happen, but as was stated earlier in the thread, there are still a lot of consumers that don't have broadband internet, making it a physical impossibility at the present. It's frustrating in my area where you can be just a mile in the wrong direction and screwed out of even mediocre DSL connections.

On an unrelated note, I have a mental tick go off every time you go, "...hell, <statement>."

Posted by VelourMustache

@tourgen said:

Like people who believe that a single-source distribution channel, wholly controlled by one company, will EVER drop prices. Wow. Econ 101.

Also in Econ 101 you're introduced to concepts like "price fixing". That is illegal.

Anyway, you're assuming Microsoft or Sony would have singular control over pricing which is crazy talk. Publishers have expectations for the profits they make off a particular project in different stages of release and they would want to adjust prices accordingly. If the controlling company of either distribution network says, "nope. Games stay $60 forever," then the publishers and developers would lose tons of money and be forced to scale back operations, close up shop, or else find alternate distribution methods. All of those would be very, very bad for Microsoft and Sony. Hardware producers are equally dependent on software producers and act as a single, massive point of failure for the whole industry. All parties involved certainly don't want those billions of dollars to dry up overnight.

It's moot anyway; at least this generation. There are 20 million Xbox 360s that are not connected to the internet. I'm sure some of those are by choice, but there's not a great way to ascertain which are optional and which just don't have broadband access. Either way, that's 20 million wallets Microsoft potentially loses access to if they make a console sans disc drive.

Will we see some sort of restrictions that make resale more difficult if not impossible? That is a safe bet, yes. It will not, however, have anything to do with requiring an always-on, broadband internet connection.

Posted by HelpImUpsideDown

Calm down, everyone learned there lesson with the PSP Go. It will be at least two more generations before we go all digital.

Posted by BormahAl

I look forward to a digital future.

Posted by Zaxex

I expect those services could end up like Steam. Their sales are genius, you check the store more often, buy more games and feeling more invested in the service makes it easier to justify buying games for it.

I don't know about Sony, but if Microsoft keep the Xbox Live Gold thing going (I don't see why they wouldn't) then they offer more incentive to have a Gold account and to keep it running, especially if the sales, or features of games that're on sale require it.

I think it'll probably happen eventually, downloading games is about the most practical method for me already. Even at equal to retail price it'd be the best option for me, and it must save the companies themselves huge amounts.

With a fast enough internet connection and enough storage space it seems the way to go. Otherwise we're buying data on a disc, in a store, then taking that and probably installing it. Seems archaic, especially for PC games.

And I don't think games would be $60, or the equivalent forever. For starters not all games retail at that price, and excluding the absolute biggest franchises people have expectations that the prices lower over time. On Xbox 360 Games on Demand, the games aren't new and aren't full price, which is how I would expect things to pan out. Even from the developers viewpoint I'd think they'd want to bring more people on board down the line with sales and the like.

I'd welcome the option as soon as possible, I could choose the download when a game's released and those without the means could buy the game at retail. That probably wouldn't help retail much, but I don't think they're doing exceptionally well as it is (Game for example).

And whoever's talking about Online Passes, those are to deal with used game purchases, why would they exist for digital purchases, that makes no sense. My only concern is the always-online rumour, even with a wired connection, by far the most reliable (and fastest) connection I've ever had I don't trust it to never lapse. If anyone's going down this road they need to make sure their anti-piracy schemes don't fuck over their actual customers.

Posted by Zaxex

@Jay444111 said:

@MariachiMacabre: Stuff

There will never be any drop downs in prices of 5 year old games...

Stuff

Just to respond to one of your points there are already downloadable Xbox 360 games on the Marketplace and they aren't retail price. Also, you don't own the games you buy on disc either, those are licenses your buying there too, not just digital games.

If you're going to be all crazy and hyperbolic you should check that half of your "facts" aren't literally falsehoods.

Edited by Sooty

@VelourMustache said:

First, and most importantly: Microsoft and Sony would not be the sole arbiter of pricing in a digital-only environment. That is insane. No publisher would even think of putting out an Xbox or Playstation game if it meant that they had no control over how much their product costs.

Second: it wouldn't eliminate bargains and sales. You'd still see "buy one, get one" offers and stuff like that. In fact, it might even create the free weekend promotions for console games.

Third: Price drops would still happen at a similar pace. Some people don't want to pay $60 for games, and publishers are well aware of that. The whole point of dropping price is to convince the late-comers to buy.

Lastly (this is probably the most important, I guess): It's not gonna happen. There are still way too many consumers who don't have broadband access. A digital-only console could totally happen, but it certainly wouldn't be one of the main competitors and would probably resemble something closer to a purpose-built gaming PC.

Well for:

1) They kind of would be be, unless they allowed for competition on their own console, which won't happen.

2) It would eliminate them, the only competition Microsoft and Sony will have is each other on multi-platform games. You'll get some sales, but it won't be anything like what Steam has.

3) 2 pretty much applies to that. Look at all the rip-off pricing for the current retail games on PSN/XBLM. Mortal Kombat is £45/$70 on XBLM. The fuck are they thinking? Hardly any of the games on there have came down in price.

All this digital shit only works on PC because the pricing is often competitive, and you usually have the option of buying the game retail and just using the CD key on Origin/Steam/whatever. So you not only have digital vendor competition but online/retail stores selling boxed copies can also provide price competition.

Posted by VelourMustache

@Sooty: Let's look at it like this. I used to live in a small town with one movie theater. Now, obviously, if you want to watch a movie on the big screen in this town, you HAVE to go to this theater because they have no competition. Yet, before 6pm every weekday they have lowered prices. Why? Because people are less likely to go to the movies at noon on a Tuesday.

Replace the theater with Microsoft, for example. Imagine, somehow, every publisher stupidly said, "sure, Microsoft. Charge whatever you want for our IP!" Now, Microsoft could totally keep these games at $60 in perpetuity. However, they won't for the same reason. Replace the Tuesday at noon show time with a game that came out two years ago. Replace the matinee pricing with the reduced cost of the game. They do it because they want you to buy stuff. At some point, you're not going to want to spend $60 on a game that probably doesn't have a multiplayer community anymore and isn't going to receive any new updates or DLC, so they drop the price to appeal to the inner cheapskate in you.

Also, Mortal Kombat is $50 on the XBL Marketplace. That is $10 below original retail price.

And double again: it doesn't matter because we will absolutely not have digital-only consoles this time around.