LtSquigs's comments

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Posted by LtSquigs

@sgtsphynx: I've played it a bit, but I don't think its for me. I tend to not enjoy the dungeon crawly type of games as much as I used to, but it seems well made and pretty intricate.

Posted by LtSquigs

@chrisbob: Thats where I stole the term hacklike, admittedly. I just think it can be repurposed to apply to modern roguelikes, as we move away from specific RPG mechanics being the separator.

Posted by LtSquigs

@synaptic: I'm not sure those are roguelikes, those seem to be their own genre (and somewhat a sub-genre of the minecraft genre)

Posted by LtSquigs

@internal_dialogue: I was going to make Dark Souls an honorable mention in that Category. Obviously its not a roguelike (not random, no perma death), but it has a lot of the same elements that make hacklikes what they are (puzzle like, a lot of the game is figuring out the crazy complex systems in it).

@prestige @christaran: Ah I meant to add a section on what I mean by meta-game but forgot, maybe ill edit it in. It's hard to come up with a quick description of what it is, but I think I can try an explain by example?

An example of a regular game would be something like the shooting mechanics in BoI, the platforming aspects in Spelunky/Rogue Legacy, or in nethack the turn based movement/attack interactions. It's all stuff that's self contained in the game, the main way you interact with a game.

The meta-game would be the next step up, information about how the game works and interacts so that you can come up with strategies to beat it, also known as theorycrafting in MMO circles. All games have some level of meta-game (Rogue Legacy it would be things like knowing what all the possible spells do and strategizing based off that).

Some games though take it to a level of absurdity, those would be the hacklikes. Examples of things that typically count as meta-game in nethack: Knowing reading cursed scrolls do different things than reading uncursed scrolls, knowing that reading scrolls while confused do different things, abusing monster properties for yourself, etc. Theres honestly too much to quickly describe with nethack.

Obviously every game has some level of this meta-information (that can sometimes be learned through playing the game), but how much this meta-game is incorporated into the game itself and how much it effects how the game is played is varied. That variation is what separates hacklikes from other roguelikes. With hacklikes a large and complex meta-game is desirable, and is in fact the main meat of the game experience. With other roguelikes the meta-game is incidental to the game, and often does not have as large of an impact.

Posted by LtSquigs

@fisk0: So far yes, but there hasnt been much evolution in that area. The progression stuff is sort of a more recent development even in Rogue-Lites.

Theoretically BoI has progression mechanics, and Im not sure if thats a hack-like or not.

I think progression mechanics can work in a hacklike, sort of like an extended tutorial (like LoL where you have to reach level 30 before you unlock everything), but I think for it to work right you would want to reach that point where you unlock everything, have all the tools, and then need to solve the puzzle.

Posted by LtSquigs

@mijati: I havent played enough BoI to really know where to classify it.

I should note, meta-game can greatly affect any one of these games, it affects every game really. The existence of a meta-game or that the meta-game makes a game easier is itself not what defines a hacklike.

What defines a hacklike is that the entire game is designed around the meta-game. That mechanics in the game exist to either help you learn or force you learn that meta-game (think the shortcuts in spelunky). That the meta-game is the main and core focus of the game.

Edited by LtSquigs

Aw man, was hoping to get more N7 armor like what was in XIII-2. Oh well.

Edited by LtSquigs

@billyhoush: Yeah unfortunately his levels were off for this first one, and we didnt notice till too late.

Posted by LtSquigs

@sil3n7: @rorie: Haha yeah that kind of stuff dont bother me, its all in good fun. What your not seeing is me giving them shit off camera on a constant basis.

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