ISP Usage Based Billing in Canada

 Most of you probably don't know, but a group in Canada (CRTC - Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunication Commission) is implementing ISP Usage Based Billing in Canada, starting March 1.  

 
Here is some background reading to inform you on the topic
 
Official Decision and Statement
Some consumer backlash
Group and Petition against the cap
 
What does this mean?
 
This means that if you go over your bandwidth cap (usually 25-50 gigs) in a month you have to pay the ridiculous amount of 1-2 dollars PER GIG that you go over.  
 
I don't think it will affect things like gaming (XBL, PSN, Wii, etc....) but it really will hurt when you buy something off STEAM and have a 20 Gig download sitting there and you get charged for downloading something you purchased.
Steam is going to get killed, OnLive is going to get smoked, as well as my new favorite toy - Netflix.  
I know that Canada is a big place and to set up the infrastructure across the country costs a bunch and we don't have the population density to pay for it.  But honestly, in this day and age where technology is so prevalent and I use the internet from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep, I am just really upset about how this turned out. 
Some of the only options now are to talk to the MP (gov't rep) and get a voice heard, but even that seems like a drop in the bucket.  
 
Anyways - just curious to see what people's thoughts were and if anyone else has experienced UBB and caps in their country.    
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Posted by Merzalof

 Most of you probably don't know, but a group in Canada (CRTC - Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunication Commission) is implementing ISP Usage Based Billing in Canada, starting March 1.  

 
Here is some background reading to inform you on the topic
 
Official Decision and Statement
Some consumer backlash
Group and Petition against the cap
 
What does this mean?
 
This means that if you go over your bandwidth cap (usually 25-50 gigs) in a month you have to pay the ridiculous amount of 1-2 dollars PER GIG that you go over.  
 
I don't think it will affect things like gaming (XBL, PSN, Wii, etc....) but it really will hurt when you buy something off STEAM and have a 20 Gig download sitting there and you get charged for downloading something you purchased.
Steam is going to get killed, OnLive is going to get smoked, as well as my new favorite toy - Netflix.  
I know that Canada is a big place and to set up the infrastructure across the country costs a bunch and we don't have the population density to pay for it.  But honestly, in this day and age where technology is so prevalent and I use the internet from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep, I am just really upset about how this turned out. 
Some of the only options now are to talk to the MP (gov't rep) and get a voice heard, but even that seems like a drop in the bucket.  
 
Anyways - just curious to see what people's thoughts were and if anyone else has experienced UBB and caps in their country.    
Posted by TheSeductiveMoose

I've never even heard of bandwitdth caps over here.

Posted by fwylo

I signed the petition. I think it's such garbage. 
 
We are paying for the service in the first place and it is already a ridiculous amount.  They are charging us to use the service that we are already paying to use.  Garbage.

Edited by xyzygy

If this goes through, say goodbye to Digital Distribution in Canada. 
 
Still that petition had 50,000 signs yesterday. Today it's over 61,000

Posted by fwylo

MY MOM EVEN SIGNED IT

Posted by BUCK3TM4N

well thats another way the u.s. gov could make us pay for stupid shit

Posted by Geno

The CRTC is a fucking joke, it's basically just a puppet of the Canadian telecom corporations. Hm, go backwards half a decade in network infrastructure and charge customers more than ever? GOOD IDEA HURR DURR.  
 
If we're lucky, maybe by 2020 we'll still have telegraphs left to use. 

Posted by keyhunter

These are the same cunts that make businesses pay royalties toward "artists" they play on their CD players in their shops.
Also, what the fuck is a bandwidth cap? I haven't heard anything about bandwidth caps since Napster was a thing that people used.

Posted by No0b0rAmA

SONOFABITCH. This is bullshit. Now I have to go raise my plan's bandwidth cap before this shit comes into effect.

Posted by Juvarial
@keyhunter: Uncle Harper probably gave them the fucking go ahead. 
Someone needs to take care of that guy. Fucking seriously.
Posted by crusader8463

There has been a lot of stink being worked up over it since it has been dated to happen. I believe it's a major point the NDP are planning to run on come next election time. Hope this crap works out soon. The Rogers/Bell monopoly of the internet in Canada is maddening. Not to mention about 95% of my games are on Steam, and the majority of them involve me using the internet to play them. Gotta remember to download them all and back them on on my external hard drive before this cap comes into effect.
 
Guess I won't be signing up for netflix as I planned.

Posted by keyhunter
@Juvarial said:
" @keyhunter: Uncle Harper probably gave them the fucking go ahead. Someone needs to take care of that guy. Fucking seriously. "
People are too lazy and aren't poor or desperate enough to do anything about leaders these days. I'm afraid we'll never see a government get overthrown by Canadian peasants ever again.
WE GOTTA GET AAAAANGGGRRYYYY
Edited by MikkaQ

I repeat what I said in the LAST thread that this was brought up in. My ISP (Rogers) already does this. What are we fighting again? 
  
This majorly sucks for me already. I pay like 200$ every month, I don't even torrent anything, and I download maybe one steam game a month. The charges were ALL from Netflix, since a movie stream in HD is about 2GB of bandwidth, it costs me 4$ technically to watch a movie. I'm glad I myself am not paying for this, it's being payed by a small business, but it's still total bullshit.  

Ugh just another reason why I'm moving to the states as soon as I get my degree. 

Posted by MegaGoat
@keyhunter said:
" These are the same cunts that make businesses pay royalties toward "artists" they play on their CD players in their shops."
It's called "non-personal use"
They should have to pay the royalties
Edited by endless_void

Fuck Tony Clement and both of the corrupt government parties (liberals and conservatives). We need some change and FAST. They will keep increasing the cost if we don't do anything about it. 
 
Whether you live in Canada or not...LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD
WRITE TO THE MPs 
PROTEST
SPREAD THE NEWS
SIGN THE PETITIONS
TELL THE GOVERNMENT TO STOP.
 
I'm sick of this country's politicians. -_-

Posted by RollingZeppelin

The ISP situation here in Canada makes my fucking blood boil. We need to put a stop to this bullshit!

Posted by Pinworm45
@Juvarial said:
" @keyhunter: Uncle Harper probably gave them the fucking go ahead. Someone needs to take care of that guy. Fucking seriously. "
What the fuck does harper have to do with anything? 
 
This is why shit like this happens. You people have absolutely no idea what's going on.
Edited by endless_void
@Pinworm45 said:

" @Juvarial said:

" @keyhunter: Uncle Harper probably gave them the fucking go ahead. Someone needs to take care of that guy. Fucking seriously. "
What the fuck does harper have to do with anything?  This is why shit like this happens. You people have absolutely no idea what's going on. "
''You People have no idea''? You are so damn ironic it's depressing.
 
I can't believe how unmotivated people are these days. I guess you'd rather let the government tax you up the the ass?
Posted by Pinworm45
@endless_void said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @Juvarial said:
" @keyhunter: Uncle Harper probably gave them the fucking go ahead. Someone needs to take care of that guy. Fucking seriously. "
What the fuck does harper have to do with anything?  This is why shit like this happens. You people have absolutely no idea what's going on. "
''You People have no idea''? You are so damn ironic it's depressing. "
Then educate me. 
 
Or just come up with an excuse not too, since like I said, you people have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and thus you can't.
Edited by Vinnylegs
@Merzalof: I don't get it?  I already have to pay $2.00 per GB if I go over my cap with Rogers. This doesn't make sense. You must have made an error in your first post? 
 
Edit: Nevermind. Ok so what this is doing is allowing smaller independent ISP providers who lease from Rogers and Bell to do the same thing as them and charge if you go over your cap. Well whoopdee shit. Wherever I go the only ISPs I can get internet from is Bell and Rogers anyways. The consumer backlash thing is a joke. Why didn't it happen years ago when Rogers and Bell started charging you if you go over your cap. Like seriously, I know it sucks to be charged when you go over your cap but why complain now? I think it's a little late... 
Edited by endless_void
@Pinworm45: You're right the PM has very little to do with the CRTC. I'm not questioning that. I found it ironic how you assume such things are the way they are because ''shit like this happens''. Stop being so unmotivated and show that you CARE about the internet. If you don't then so be it.
 
 Keep in mind also that the giantbomb servers are within Canada, which would cost the GB crew even more cash to upkeep. So even if you're outside of Canada, you should still care.
Edited by Pinworm45
@endless_void said: 

@Pinworm45: You're right the PM has very little to do with the CRTC. I'm not questioning that. I found it ironic how you assume such things are the way they are because ''shit like this happens''. Stop being so unmotivated and show that you CARE about the internet. If you don't then so be it. Keep in mind also that the giantbomb servers are within Canada, which would cost the GB crew even more cash to upkeep. "

I think you misunderstand me. I care very, very deeply about this situation. I've spent a significant amount of my time to trying to stop it. 
 

My issue is with people who have no idea what's going on blaming the wrong people. As if harper or even the conservatives have anything to do with this, as if putting liberals or green party or communists in office would change this, etc. It won't, it's a waste of time, and it's anger and time devoted to something that won't change anything to do with this.

 
 
@Vinnylegs said:

" @Merzalof: I don't get it?  I already have to pay $5.00 per GB if I go over my my cap with Rogers. This doesn't make sense. You must have made an error in your first post? "

The CRTC decision is related to bell, not rogers. If you want to be ignorant and say "WELL I AINT EFFECTED, SO EFFF ALL YALL" That's your business I guess, but as someone who's on the internet on a forum that's generally inhabited by people who care about the internet, you should probably understand just what this change means. 
 
This change, also, is in effect on the GAS system. Which means that wholesalers and independant ISPs can not charge their own prices, making the current duopoly even more powerful. Indies are now required to charge more to customers else they give their product at cost.  (hint: this also means they have to charge more than bell/rogers which means no one will use them. Why pay more for the same thing?)
 
The change is also a lovely slipperly slope. Expect rogers to follow suit, expect the caps to get more absurd, and basically expect our internet to head back into the stone age (not a huge change I guess, we're barely in the bronze right now). It's not fear mongering or expecting the worst; it's what these companies have said they want to do and the CRTC has shown absolutely no sign that they care about protecting consumer interest here.
Edited by MonetaryDread

Just signed the petition right now.

As for the infrastructure costs are concerned, my Dad works for Telus, and the infrastructure has already been built. The government gave out a shit tonne of money to the major telecoms in the late 90's for installing fiber optic lines. Right now those lines are barely being used and most of them are just lying there dormant as, what is called, "dark wire." Any potential congestion problems can be fixed with minimal effort and money. This decision is really just about major telecoms trying to drive independent ISP's out of buisiness.
 
Damnit. I was starting to enjoy Netflix and Steam as well.

Posted by RVonE

50GB? Really? 
Posted by Pinworm45
@RVonE said:
" 50GB? Really?  "
Where'd you get that from? they're aiming for 25.
Posted by RVonE
@Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" 50GB? Really?  "
Where'd you get that from? they're aiming for 25. "

The OP says you Canadians have caps of 25-50GB. I'm just expressing my disbelief of such a low figure like 50GB being the download limit.
Posted by Pinworm45
@RVonE said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" 50GB? Really?  "
Where'd you get that from? they're aiming for 25. "
The OP says you Canadians have caps of 25-50GB. I'm just expressing my disbelief of such a low figure like 50GB being the download limit. "
Rogers has a current cap of 40gigs. 
 
This change is going to put bell (And all resellers) at a cap of 25. Rogers will probably follow suit. 
 
It's going to be 25.
Posted by RVonE
@Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" 50GB? Really?  "
Where'd you get that from? they're aiming for 25. "
The OP says you Canadians have caps of 25-50GB. I'm just expressing my disbelief of such a low figure like 50GB being the download limit. "
Rogers has a current cap of 40gigs.  This change is going to put bell (And all resellers) at a cap of 25. Rogers will probably follow suit.  It's going to be 25. "

That sounds ridiculous and unbelievable to me. I mean, Over here there are no data limits and I never really think about how much I'm using. We had data limits 10 years ago. I can't even fathom going back to that situation.
Posted by Animasta
@Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" 50GB? Really?  "
Where'd you get that from? they're aiming for 25. "
The OP says you Canadians have caps of 25-50GB. I'm just expressing my disbelief of such a low figure like 50GB being the download limit. "
Rogers has a current cap of 40gigs.  This change is going to put bell (And all resellers) at a cap of 25. Rogers will probably follow suit.  It's going to be 25. "
That's like the worst thing I've ever heard about canada D: that's silly, we pay 30 or 46 per month and we have like a 200 gb cap, and even the lowest price one you can get gives you 30.
Posted by CL60

I'm in Canada and I have no cap.

Posted by Vinnylegs
@Pinworm45:  Just because I like the internet doesn't mean I should know everything that's going on about the internet. I AINT EFFECTED!  SO EFF ALL YALL! Hahahaha!  
Posted by CoverlessTech
Posted by RVonE
Posted by CL60
Edited by Hourai

Well, there goes Steam I guess. Netflix too. I use 25GB a month just downloading TV episodes and game demos and such. I'm also sharing my Internet with four other people.

Posted by RVonE
@CL60 said:
" @RVonE said:
" @CoverlessTech said:
" @RVonE:  The highest cap at Rogers is 175GB for $100 a month. Lowest is a measly 2GB per month. Check it for yourself http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal?_nfpb=true&_windowLabel=HiSpeedBrowse_1_2&HiSpeedBrowse_1_2_actionOverride=/portlets/consumer/internet/browse/hiSpeedCableBrowse/compare&HiSpeedBrowse_1_2productID=WAVE&_pageLabel=INTER_HISPEED "
Wow. Ridiculous. "
I'm in Canada and my internet is 40 dollars a month, and has no bandwidth cap. :D "

That sounds more natural to me.
Posted by endless_void
@Pinworm45:  I had the idea that you were just carelessly lurking the forums, commenting on anything at random (like most people here do) but I'm definitely wrong. nice to see someone else cares about the internet :.)
 
I'm noticing a trend among people which is their lack of motivation to protect what they love. ''But no one will do anything about it and the government will do it anyway'' is utter ignorance and it sickens me that people think this way :( Even if it is true in many cases, there should always be something done to stop a situation like this. 
 
Such a shame that we're getting treated this way even as some of the top payers for internet around the world. Hell we should be getting 1 GB/s for the amount of cash people pay to ISPs in Canada.....
Edited by endless_void
@CL60: Where in the hell do you live? Even if you have an ISP that's not rogers/bell, this new law will still affect you, so expect your internet bill to rise in fees....
Posted by CoverlessTech
@CL60:  Yeah we pay $55 for our 7Mb connection with no cap here as well. Not every company has caps but the big boys do. 
Edited by PixelPrinny

This thread was posted yesterday, and again -- Shaw and Rogers have already been doing this so what is the big difference -- that smaller ISPs that lease from them can do it too? We've got caps of between 30-175 gigs based on payment plays and they charge $1-$2 per gig over those caps (again based on payment plan). 
 
Now if they were to change our plans with little warning to much smaller caps, I'd be pretty ticked, but checking out Shaw's site and looking at my bill, I haven't seen any changes or word of a change so..... yeah..... People are getting up in arms a bit late over this, no? Where were ya when the big companies decided to do this? D:  
 
To the time machine!

Posted by SeriouslyNow
@RVonE said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" 50GB? Really?  "
Where'd you get that from? they're aiming for 25. "
The OP says you Canadians have caps of 25-50GB. I'm just expressing my disbelief of such a low figure like 50GB being the download limit. "
Rogers has a current cap of 40gigs.  This change is going to put bell (And all resellers) at a cap of 25. Rogers will probably follow suit.  It's going to be 25. "
That sounds ridiculous and unbelievable to me. I mean, Over here there are no data limits and I never really think about how much I'm using. We had data limits 10 years ago. I can't even fathom going back to that situation. "
There are data limits in the US.  The peak data limit is 250GB/month, which most ISPs over there follow.  In the future ISPs may well set lower limits.  You need to be more informed about what's been going since the Net Neutrality FCC case.
Posted by RVonE
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @RVonE said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" @Pinworm45 said:
" @RVonE said:
" 50GB? Really?  "
Where'd you get that from? they're aiming for 25. "
The OP says you Canadians have caps of 25-50GB. I'm just expressing my disbelief of such a low figure like 50GB being the download limit. "
Rogers has a current cap of 40gigs.  This change is going to put bell (And all resellers) at a cap of 25. Rogers will probably follow suit.  It's going to be 25. "
That sounds ridiculous and unbelievable to me. I mean, Over here there are no data limits and I never really think about how much I'm using. We had data limits 10 years ago. I can't even fathom going back to that situation. "
There are data limits in the US.  The peak data limit is 250GB/month, which most ISPs over there follow.  In the future ISPs may well set lower limits.  You need to be more informed about what's been going since the Net Neutrality FCC case. "

Yeah, I'm not in the US either so I don't know about that.
Posted by ahriman22

I got a letter from Bell today, apparently my limit is 300GB, not 75GB and the most I've used in he past 6 months is 268GB. If I go over my limit I'll have to pay them A WHOLE FUCKING DOLLAR FUCK per GB.\ 
 
I don't see the problem here.

Edited by Pinworm45
@PixelPrinny said:

" This thread was posted yesterday, and again -- Shaw and Rogers have already been doing this so what is the big difference -- that smaller ISPs that lease from them can do it too? We've got caps of between 30-175 gigs based on payment plays and they charge $1-$2 per gig over those caps (again based on payment plan).  Now if they were to change our plans with little warning to much smaller caps, I'd be pretty ticked, but checking out Shaw's site and looking at my bill, I haven't seen any changes or word of a change so..... yeah..... People are getting up in arms a bit late over this, no? Where were ya when the big companies decided to do this? D:   To the time machine! "

FUCK IT, I GIVE UP. 
 
You initial impression was right, Endless
Posted by DJ_Lae

My limit with Shaw is currently 100GB, up from the 60GB limit I had with Telus. 
 
I have yet to exceed my 100GB to verify the overcharge amounts, but even at $1/GB that's insane as my first 100GB only cost $30 (and that's assuming my actual internet service is entirely free other than bandwidth). I went over 200GB several times with Telus and while they bitched and moaned at me they didn't charge me anything - that was before the ISPs started implementing overcharges, though. 
 
I have a feeling by the end of the year my anus is going to look like a deflated inner tube.
Posted by CL60
@endless_void said:
" @CL60: Where in the hell do you live? Even if you have an ISP that's not rogers/bell, this new law will still affect you, so expect your internet bill to rise in fees.... "
I live in Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted by nick_verissimo

If Rogers hadn't already been charging an extra 2 dollars per GB over my cap, I may be a little pissed off with this, but it really doesn't matter at this point.  It's a little too late to complain about all of this.

Posted by nick_verissimo
@CL60:  Dude, who is your ISP?! My roommates and I spend 47 bucks for 60 GB's and desperately want your plan!
Posted by CoverlessTech
@nick_verissimo said:
" @CL60:  Dude, who is your ISP?! My roommates and I spend 47 bucks for 60 GB's and desperately want your plan! "
Probably Alient. Thats who I use, they are only on the east cost though.
Posted by strangone
@PixelPrinny said:
" This thread was posted yesterday, and again -- Shaw and Rogers have already been doing this so what is the big difference -- that smaller ISPs that lease from them can do it too? We've got caps of between 30-175 gigs based on payment plays and they charge $1-$2 per gig over those caps (again based on payment plan).  Now if they were to change our plans with little warning to much smaller caps, I'd be pretty ticked, but checking out Shaw's site and looking at my bill, I haven't seen any changes or word of a change so..... yeah..... People are getting up in arms a bit late over this, no? Where were ya when the big companies decided to do this? D:   To the time machine! "
The problem isn't that smaller ISPs can do it, which they always could. The problem is that this ruling allows Bell, who the smaller ISPs lease the network from, can now force the independent guys to have caps and overages. Meaning Rogers and Bell now have more room to lower their caps, which is exactly what's happening.
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