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nyv's forum posts
Hi, guys! It took me a while to respond, sorry for the wait. Anyway.. let's get down to it:
@MikeGosot: Thanks for chiming in to the discussion. Would you mind expanding your post, by adding what art is to you personally? Does it have to do with experience, with aesthetics.. or magic perhaps? Do you think there is a difference between design (be it game/graphic or other) and art? Lastly it would be great if you could tell me if you have any history with arts. Thank you upfront!
@believer258: I appreciate that you made a strong and especially clear point, really do. Would you mind answering one last question - do you have any history in arts (hobby/university)? Thanks
@Rafaelfc: Sorry for keeping you waiting as you seem to be quite interested in the discussion. Don't be sorry for the long post, as the information it contains could easily take three times the space if you weren't quite eloquent. Just as well I apologize that I cannot really discuss the topic as I might influence the potential new opinions. I definitely want to, trust me and when the paper is done I will. Thanks for sharing your experience in art/design. To leave you with a question, would you mind showing/mentioning any really good examples of game interface? And then the same for game interfaces that are in your opinion very close to art. Thank you!
@Sin4profit: As you are one of the few who take the negative stance, would you mind expanding your opinion, please? Why is it not art? - is it because it is design and you don't see design as art? Is it because a different reason? It would be great if you could tell me, please, what is art to you personally. Thank you if you'll share all that
@tourgen: Your remark about academics made me laugh as of course I see quite a bit of truth in it myself. But you could say the same thing about a lot of things, because people are just weird and need shit to do. Thanks for the opinion on craftsmanship, it is quite unique. As you quite clearly express what is art to you, would you mind telling me if you have any history in arts? Have you studied art, do you do creative writing, sing, dance or whatever? Thank you!
@Jack268: Thanks for sharing your quite strict usability driven opinion. Do you mind sharing what do you consider art then? Also if you have any history in arts? Lastly as your view is very usability based, do you mind saying if you are a developer/programmer? It would simply help me to triangulate data when I get everything together. Thanks!
@Brodehouse: Thanks for trying to develop the discussion in here, appreciate it. You speak quite highly of art. I asked you enough questions already and I'd need to ask more of everyone then, so no questions for you, just a thank you!.. kidding, Do you have any history in arts? I am interested, because you have made excellent points in all of your posts. Here, once again you are using examples that are exceptional. Your opinion is definitely one of the sound ones, which I will use more profoundly.
@StarvingGamer: Great that you came back with answer, thanks. I see what you are saying - if the experience has to be experienced in its entirety, do you think that the experience is then not there, or it simply completely changes? Asking just to make sure, I think I can tell the answer already. I find that, you are a vocalist very interesting. Especially your opinion, as you write springs from that. Ultimately experience is something games are about. How much of an integral part of a game do you think user interface is? It would probably be best to put in example, if you don't mind. Thanks!
@gladspooky: Okay. Why not? What is art to you personally? Do you see any difference between design and art? Do you have any history in arts? That is more than one, but it should be fine! Thanks for joining the discussion and helping me out.
@audioBusting: First off thanks for chiming in. Yes, basically that is what I am asking for. Once again I see that interface is seen as a suplemental part of the game. Is that what you are saying? Do you think it is possible that there just has not been any example of game interface that has been manufactured for no game and that is why you think in this way? I'll give you one example to think about. I have played a fair bit of the new XCOM lately and the user interface is very very heavy in this game. If you have played the game, take away all the HUD and leave just the lines that mark where each soldier can move. Do you think that might stand out as art on its own? The changing colours, created shapes and everything. Or would it be design, which you might not consider art then? Thanks if you take the time to respond.
@Gamer_152: Fancy, a moderator. That's all I wanted, now I can leave... just kidding of course :). Art can be hardly defined in a sensible and short way, I agree. I can imagine the only way would be for the scientists to find the part of the brain that is stimulated when thinking art and if it would be the same for each person, there you go. But, that's why I am asking for a personal opinion. Thank you for answering the self-expression question as not a lot of people do. You make yourself pretty clear (for what I am once again grateful) and therefore I can only ask if you were willing to share, if you have any history with arts (hobby/university...)?
@thatdutchguy: I am not here to answer your questions! You are! ...but yes of course. Who wouldn't. He is the one unique piece of work. What would you say? Is Jeff "The Original Homeboy" Gerstmann art? Mind joining the discussion afterwards? Thanks for visiting in any case.
@egg: Oh, wow. I am actually quite suprised by your opinion. Not that I have not heard it before, but it is not so common. Would you mind explaining why do you consider a game an interface? Would you say if the whole game is an interface, that the questions I am asking might possibly apply? Lastly do you mind if I ask what is your background? Thanks for sharing.
@Scrawnto: Thanks for joining the discussion and reading through a bit. As you consider design to be somewhat art, could you expand on that? I might be OK if you told me, whether the intersection between engineering and creative expression is to you personally called "craftsmanship."
@Fattony12000: Well they do, but of course it depends on what tutor you get and how well you manage to hide the gaming thirst in it. Let's say it was not the easiest to come up with such thesis. Thanks for the sources (although I'll be a horrible person and tell you I have read them all, but the interview with Dino, so thank you really just for that :D). I am trying to work it out, but I can hardly write what I think and make a paper out of that (I wish it worked around those lines). I need you and your opinion. Have you ever tried designing user interface for a game(as you have all those sources ready)? Do you have any background in arts? Lastly do you think that the visual/aesthetic quality is what makes art (at least in games)? Cheers for the response, duder!
@Immortal_Guy: I am glad that you find the discussion interesting and enlightening in some way. I do so as well. You are right about looking solely at the aesthetic qualities of the game interface is probably not a good approach. The art should be approached in its entirety, otherwise it seizes to be the original experience (as one of the smart guys posted above). I think contemporary art is a place rather to avoid as it speaks only to a few in a way it was intended. As you mention, the interface seem to be very tightly bound with the game. How much do you think is a game interface an integral part of a game? And do you mind me asking, what is your background in arts? Thanks again
@TekZero: Thanks for joining the discussion. Would you mind saying what is art to you personally then? Is it the magic essence someone puts in it, or is it any form of design?
@The_Ruiner: Hi, thank you for chiming in to the talk. Do you think you could explain in some way, what does artistic design mean to you personally? Thank you
Duders, I must say I am once again eternally grateful for all your opinions and help. The discussion is flowing and giving me some great results, which I will share together with my paper once it's all written up. Also you might find it interesting that from several boards I have posted the problem, this one has confirmed its community as the best - everyone politely and frequently discussing. You are all giving me gold (just as the Bombcrew)!
Once again, thanks a lot to all of you. I really appreciate all the comments. They are great, as much of a common talk as to some of you it might seem, all counts and helps me quite a bit to formulate what I need for my paper.
@believer258: Dead Space is an often brought example. Do you think you would personally consider it art, because there is actually no real interface and everything is right inside the game. Or in other words: everything you see is game art, therefore do you consider game art an art? If yes, do you think you generally consider game art an art (in all games, or just some specific cases)? Lastly would you consider a design an art (i.e. an iPhone, logo of a company, movie poster)?
@Kerned: It is completely fine to be a bit biased since you have studied arts. The justification is a very valid point and I think a relevant one. Artist's statement is something I am going to look into more (academically speaking). Thanks.
@Franstone: Good point and by industry standards definitely true. The conflict here might be in the fact, whether you personally consider graphic design art? If yes, do you think you might explain yourself why? It would really help me out if you added also if you have studied (university or self-taught) art or design at some point. Thank you
@Immortal_Guy: Really appreciate your answer. Great insight and a first one to actually say "no". The questions are surely all a bit different and that might have to something with the fact, that I have to talk around the topic of art, without talking art, as that alone is hardly defined. The parallel between typesetting and editorial design is I think very accurate and I might actually use that at some point in my paper. At the same time I think a template is really quite different in comparison to a functional game interface. Template is not necesarilly aesthetic, while interface is usually created from game art or very strongly themed, which might make it (seem or to be) an art.
@StarvingGamer: Loved the expression "dissonance of experiences". What you are saying is excellent. I think nowadays it might be not so hard to get Van Gogh's work next to roaring Al Pacino, definitelly in a more progressive (contemporary) gallery. Although you changed the subject to "game as art" I like how that might easily signify how well connected (how much of an integral part) the user interface in a game is. What you are saying basically is, that for you art is about experience? And not just that, but also an integral part is that it was thought of how the art is to be experienced? And if you don't mind me asking, do you have any past in art (hobby, school...)? Thank you
@mosespippy: Thanks for sharing. Good to have what you wrote in context.
@Rafaelfc: Do you see design as art? I can assume your answer will be no, based on what you have written. Could you then, please, explain why you don't consider design art? Do you by any chance have any background in arts? What about web/app development?
@SamDrugbringer: Thank you. Are you suggesting that you see multiple types of art? As in, there is commercial art, which might the aforementioned iPhone case. Then there are some other kinds of art? In that case, where does design sit then? Could you elaborate on it for me a little bit, please?
@Brodehouse: The expression "contributing arts" and your second sentence are super relevant to what I am writing about. Really brilliant opinion, thank you for that.
Sorry it always takes me a while to respond, but you guys are helping me quite a bit with your opinions. Hope you will give me a minute once again and answer my questions or just respond in some way. Again, if some of you who have not written your opinion yet would like to chime in into the discussion, please do. Lastly I might be a bit hazy at some points, but it simply is to get yours opinion not affected by my research or talk.
First of all thanks for the comments. I don't necessarily want to spread out my opinion, as I am researching the issue and I am looking for other opinions and insights.
@StarvingGamer: Yes, art is surely one of those magical words, which everyone understands a bit differently. That is why I have not defined the word, so everyone has his own mind about it. I think exactly for that I have asked the question: "Can you imagine a sole game interface hanging/running as a video in a gallery at some point in the future?" Would you consider the few buttons and lines informing you and allowing you to control Angry Birds to be hanging next to a famous fine artist painting? What about the Scarf from the Journey, which tells you how many jumps you have left? Do you even think about such things as an interface?
@Demoskinos: Nice interface and a way of communicating the information to the player is definitely always a pleasure to look at and makes me want to play the game more. Splinter Cell's Convinction is a great example of great Graphic Design, which I really enjoyed (and actually bought the game just for that). Do you consider that a piece of art or a piece of design? Do you see a difference in the two?
@NyxFe: I find the word "artistic" really great. It hints toward the fact, that there is an aesthetic quality but the work itself is not art. Is that what you meant? Thanks for the example with Geometry Wars, its a good one. Although I have all the achievements I totally forgot about this game. Shame on me.
@ck1nd: I take it, that you consider games to be art? All of them, or are there a few which are bright examples? Also you have written design twice. Once in a sense of game design and one in user interface context. Do you personally consider the two designs to be art? If you'd be so kind, what does art mean to you? (what is art to you, is what I am asking)
@mosespippy: Thank you for some of the examples. I especially like the one with Metal Gear Solid, where it requires the player to mess around with a real object. I love it for the fact, that it is not a visual representation of art, but rather a happening/experience. Also thanks for making clear, that you don't consider conveying information in Dead Space especially artsy (although you might find it appealing). Motion controls is definitely something I wish there was more written about, but I guess I'll have to wait for another decade to make any point in that area. Although some good examples you point out. Last of all, ThatGameCompany's stuff is always interesting and overall closer to some definitions of art. Do you yourself study User Interface, Game Design or have you been interested in the area? I am asking to properly differentiate between people who are just gamers and who are actively studying the craft.
Thanks again, feel free not to answer, but I'd be glad if you would. Also if more people reading this would chime in, it'd be simply great.
I'm in my last year of BA studies and as such I have to be all academical and such. I have to write the very important paper, all the university kids has to write. Being mostly interested in Game Design and User Interfaces and since I am studying graphic design I thought it might be a good idea to search for a topic somewhere in between.
So, here's (and also in the title of course) the question:
Would you consider a game interface an art?
If you don't want to go into the word art, think about these two:
Does game interface allow for self-expression?
Can you imagine a sole game interface hanging/running as a video in a gallery at some point in the future?
I'm asking here since I know you guys are tense about anything game related and your opinion will matter. Feel free to discuss the relevance of the question, how come I have not read THAT article (in which case, please post that article), that explains everything or that I am missing the obvious basic book about the topic.
Now discuss! Your help will help Jeff to score on more artsy anime girls!