It. Never. Ends.
ObiFett's forum posts
It also depends on the level of the turret. Lvl 1 turrets are horrible and useless. Lvl 2 turrets can actually hold their own and take a grenade before going down. Lvl 3 turrets are mean.
So the 5 post throttle is a little ridiculous. Here's to hoping I cross whatever invisible line I need to, and soon, in order to not be limited to 5 posts a day. So I am going to have to make this post longer than I would like. Not sure its going to matter, though, as this forum is as sheep as I hoped it wouldn’t be.
Let me answer some direct attacks on my post:
He's being an apologist
By the every definition of the term, every single one of you has been an apologist in this thread. In fact, every single person that posts in a forum is by definition being an apologist by defending an idea through writing. Yeah, I'm defending something in a forum. Who woulda thunk it?
The AI is horribleNope. Sorry. It isn't. The enemy AI, at higher levels and when you have more humans on your team, can be downright scary and brilliant. They hold points, put turrets in new and interesting locations, flank, revive each other, run in groups, use SMART like monkeys and know how to take objectives. They have murdered me and a party of my friends over and over. BECAUSE the enemy AI can do that, it can be deduced that friendly bots are capable of doing that as well. And they do. AI is AI after all. And friendly AI is downright awesome in multiplayer when you are against more human players than you have on your team. So why aren't they that way in single player? The next part explains it.
Horrible AI as a feature is just dumb
And this is where we get to the crux of my OP. If you followed this game at all before release you would have known that Brink's singleplayer was just what most gamers think as "multiplayer with bots". The innovative and interesting design decision was to try to blend the two concepts. What defines a singleplayer campaign and how do they work it into what is traditionally a considered multiplayer gametype?
1) The player has to be the hero
2) Have some semblance of story
They sought out to make a singleplayer campaign type experience out of what gamers see as a multiplayer game type. What this does is blur the line between multiplayer and singleplayer and, imo, is very cool. This is also why comparing the singleplayer to UT is wrong. UT was trying to train you to be the best arena player you could be. So the bots would push you to get better constantly and act like humans. This game is not trying to train you to be the best Brink multiplayer gamer. Its trying to give you a new type of singleplayer experience. I can see why some people wouldn't like it. If you don't like it, then go play real multiplayer and then you'll see how good the bots can be.
And apparently they've listened to people's complaints. The most recent Steam update did the following
AI Bots:
Removed bot intelligence inhibitors for Freeplay games
Adjusted bot behaviour in Campaign games to make teams more evenly matched
Changed bots’ objective priorities across all game modes
Fixed issue with bot difficulty continually dropping
And when you respond to this post in defense of thinking its stupid, realize you are an apologist (of Jeff's review, your own opinion, etc) as well. ;)
- They never said the game was going to have a proper single player campaign. They actually expressly said the campaign was going to be exactly what came on the disc." Not convinced. They sold this game as having a singleplayer campaign, which is such an exaggeration on what they provided that it is a borderline lie. Yet we should believe that the incredibly poor AI on offer is a 'feature' that improves with you? The bots could well get smarter and turn the pathetic excuse for a singleplayer mode into a great experience...but who the fuck cares? The bots in the QL were dumb, majorly dumb, and posed basically no challenge to Jeff, who was at a reasonable level. Furthermore, when do the bots get smarter? If you are a new player and they are pants on head retarded, ensuring you have no fun whatsofuckingever, how is that a 'feature'? I am a pretty good FPS player, how many hours should I grind before I'm allowed to have fun with smart bots, instead of watching my teammates get mowed down while enemy bots stare at me blankly without shooting? Why would I play against bots if I'm that invested on the game? "
- Saying the bots posed basically no challenge to Jeff in the QL is laughable. He was getting killed very regularly and was unable to plant the charge on that first map multiple times. His complaint was about the friendly AI. Had he simply buffed his allies and worked with the AI, he would have had more success. And he wasn't that high of level, for that matter.
-So you are saying the AI should be amazing against new players? That's bad game design. Every game starts off easy then gets harder. Its part of gaming. Increase of time played = increase in skill = increase of game difficulty.
And again, if the bots did more, the game would play itself. Who wants that in any single player FPS experience? I mean really? If when playing Halo the bots completed levels, or in COD the bots crossed the invisible checkpoint line, it wouldn't be a game. It wouldn't be a challenge. Bots don't complete objectives right away to give you a chance to do it yourself and/or to give you a challenge.
I am on a Brink forum. o.O" Those sound like excuses, and, yes, this game does look like every other game. You can back it up all you want, but I would advise that you celebrate the game on the Brink forums or with close friends and family, because you are not going to get the support you want here. "
Yep, Brink is just like every other shooter
with parkour
and gun selection not based on class
and no snipers
and no grenade spam
and extreme character customization
and no K:D tracking
and an actual focus on teamwork
Just like every other shooter.
@Chabbs0 said:
" Those points about friendly AI make it sound like they are trying to make features out of stupid AI. "
Name one FPS that has intelligent friendly AI in singleplayer.
COD has AI that just runs and gets killed over and over. You have to do everything. EVERYTHING.
BF:BC? Same.
Halo:Reach? They act like they are doing stuff and will get the occasional kill but you gotta kill nearly everything in that game too.
Brink is different only in that what the game calls 'singleplayer' we call 'multiplayer with bots'. If you look at it through singleplayer glasses, the bots shouldn't complete the objectives. They should be focused on supporting you (reviving, killing, resupplying, doing the boring objectives like command posts, etc). And they do that EXTREMELY well. Many times have I run out of ammo to have a bot run up a second later and give me more. They always buff me and always, when nearby, revive me. They do what they should do in singleplayer. If they did more, the game would basically play itself. Who wants that?
Before you complain about the bots there is one thing to realize: The bots get better as you get better AND as the need to help you increases.
About enemy AI:
Yes, when you are low level, the enemy AI is stupid. You will kill them without any problem and finish missions pretty easily. Then as you gain levels and unlock abilities you'll notice that you start failing missions and the enemy AI will murder you. OVER. AND OVER. And they will continue to do it without mercy and in new curbstomping ways each match. The enemy AI in this game, at higher levels, is out of control hard. And I love it. A 1v1 shootout against the AI at higher levels is scary and will always keep you on your toes. You're lucky if you come out with 1/2 health. 1v2 and you just better run or pray help comes soon. Its an awesome challenge and makes me keep coming back to this game.
About friendly AI:
-they hold back and wait for you to do the objective, even say for example a bot soldier is at the objective he will not complete it in the first few minutes.
-they get more intelligent and aggressive as the time ticks down and they realise your aren't going to get the object done
-they act more intelligent when there are more humans on the opposite team.
TLDR: People complaining about AI being stupid need to actually play the game. Its meant to hold your hand at the beginning, then as you get better, it assumes you can deal with harder, murder, psycho bots and gives you less help on your side to actually make the game challenging. Games haven't been a challenge in a long time. This is a breath of fresh air.
Completion only matters in games that don't have ridiculous achievements AND I enjoyed the actual game.
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