Gran Turismo 5 should serve as a cautionary tale

Seeing the general consensus of the finally arrived GT5 has given me a bit of chance to say "I told you so" to a lot of the people I've discussed this game with.  Multiple delays, overwhelming scope of the content and a strong competitor that has appeared, equaled, and arguably even surpassed this series in the time since its last release has done this game no favors.  In my humble peon opinion, crap like this does no favors for any game, no matter how well established its franchise may be.  

When anticipation begins to wan into unrealistic expectations, nothing but disappointment is sure to follow.  I'm sure the main problem was probably overwhelming scope and possibly a lack of direction from the project leads, but it’s a shame to see a once great franchise fall so short of expectations. When you screw around and delay things that should have been out years ago, you have only yourselves to blame when it fails.

30 Comments
31 Comments
Posted by OldManLight

Seeing the general consensus of the finally arrived GT5 has given me a bit of chance to say "I told you so" to a lot of the people I've discussed this game with.  Multiple delays, overwhelming scope of the content and a strong competitor that has appeared, equaled, and arguably even surpassed this series in the time since its last release has done this game no favors.  In my humble peon opinion, crap like this does no favors for any game, no matter how well established its franchise may be.  

When anticipation begins to wan into unrealistic expectations, nothing but disappointment is sure to follow.  I'm sure the main problem was probably overwhelming scope and possibly a lack of direction from the project leads, but it’s a shame to see a once great franchise fall so short of expectations. When you screw around and delay things that should have been out years ago, you have only yourselves to blame when it fails.

Posted by KaosAngel

The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.   
 
To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.   
 
It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim.

Posted by yakov456

I couldn't wait for it, and am thoroughly enjoying it. Blame the idiots who expected the world from this game, and then turned into whining pussies when they learned that the raindrops looked different from the preview.

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Posted by Three0neFive
@KaosAngel said:
" The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
To add to this, I've never played a Gran Turismo game in my life save for a half hour of Prologue when it came out, never really cared about cars, and I'm currently enjoying the everloving shit out of GT5.
Edited by teh_pwnzorer

The game is fine.  It's the platform that is showing its age.  A lot of the ugliness (wolfenstein 3d sprites) would've been fixed with a single line of code on a PC (gt5 does have 3d spectators but they only appear in specific tracks).  It's all done to maximize framerate at 1080p.  BTW, not too many console games even support 1080p these days...

Posted by mordukai
@KaosAngel: $500? DAAAAAMN.  
 
@OldManLight: Have you played the game?
Posted by PrivateIronTFU

I can't stand people who say 'I told you so'. So smug and arrogant. I am, however, enjoying Gran Turismo 5. The driving is truly perfect.

Posted by ZimboDK

If you're willing to look past the many, many problems the game has, it's a very solid driving sim.
The only things I'm looking for in a driving sim is variety of events and as close to real life physics and handling as possible. GT5 is the only game that really delivers on all accounts. That said, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone without first telling them about the inconsistent presentation, the level grind and all the weird design decisions that went into the game.
The one thing I really care about is rally, and IMO this has this best rally events and handling since Richard Burns Rally.

Edited by Skald

I really like this game. Maybe not as much as Burnout Paradise, but more than any other racing game I can think of.  
 
Racing sims like GT5 should be more niche. Too many people went into this one expecting it to be gamey, and they were disappointed when it wasn't.

Posted by Aus_azn
@KaosAngel said:
"  It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
Posted by deadmoscow
@KaosAngel said:
" It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
This is absolutely correct.  I honestly cannot recommend this game to anyone who is not a car nerd, because they will come into it expecting some sort of videogame as opposed to a driving simulator with a bad menu system.   
 
I guess that's the major bummer of Gran Turismo though, you have to slog through so much shit to get to the most perfect videogame driving ever made.  The car delivery system is the worst offender.  And it's so sad, because I have never played a driving game as good as this one.   I honestly can't wait until all of the trolls and nay-sayers stop paying attention and the people who actually are about cars and racing remain.
Posted by OldManLight
@Aus_azn
@KaosAngel said:
"  It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
Pretty much how I feel about it but this blog post is less about criticizing the game and more about how polyphony dug themselves into such a large hole that its nearly impossible for them to succeed the way they did with gt3. I hope developers take note of this in the future.
Posted by WinterSnowblind
@KaosAngel said:
"The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "

While I am enjoying the game, I find these comments rather puzzling.  The AI, driving mechanics, damage and tuning are all much better or more indepth in Forza.  It's only disadvantage in terms of gameplay is the variety, obviously lacking things like the go karting or NASCAR as well as the fact the 360 has a really terrible wheel peripheral.  (Hopefully someone can come out with a better one, or one that could actually work with both systems, which would make the investment actually worth it).
 
It's still a solid game, and again, but for the most part it does make me wish a lot of things in it were more similar to Forza.. which is now undisputedly the more realistic driving sim.
Edited by EdIsCool
@WinterSnowblind said:

" @KaosAngel said:

"The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "

While I am enjoying the game, I find these comments rather puzzling.  The AI, driving mechanics, damage and tuning are all much better or more indepth in Forza.  It's only disadvantage in terms of gameplay is the variety, obviously lacking things like the go karting or NASCAR as well as the fact the 360 has a really terrible wheel peripheral.  (Hopefully someone can come out with a better one, or one that could actually work with both systems, which would make the investment actually worth it). It's still a solid game, and again, but for the most part it does make me wish a lot of things in it were more similar to Forza.. which is now undisputedly the more realistic driving sim. "
Strange, I find Forza's driving incredibly anaemic, it just feels dead. Take a Lotus Elise out in GT, apply too much gas on the exit of a corner, spin horribly smash off the barriers on both sides..and PRAISE KAZU!! FOR THAT WAS AWESOME!! 
If you were buying a present for someone however, buy Forza. Also the "this is the most realistic simulation" stuff will have to die. All of that stuff is on the PC and always will be. Grand Prix Legends etc,because that stuff is niche as hell.
Posted by TheKramer89
@WinterSnowblind said:
"...but for the most part it does make me wish a lot of things in it were more similar to Forza.. which is now undisputedly the more realistic driving sim. "


you can't really say "undisputed." it's obviously disputed, very much.
Posted by zudthespud
@EdIsCool said:
" @WinterSnowblind said: Also the "this is the most realistic simulation" stuff will have to die. All of that stuff is on the PC and always will be. Grand Prix Legends etc,because that stuff is niche as hell. "
This. People should try rFactor of iRacing and find out what a real simulator is. I'm sure GT5 is realistic, but a tweaked version of rFactor is what is used by F1 teams like Red Bull, and iRacing is used by many racing drivers. GT5, as limited as the "Game" part of it is, will still be 10 times more than either of the aforementioned sims.
Posted by WinterSnowblind
@TheKramer89 said:
"@WinterSnowblind said:
"...but for the most part it does make me wish a lot of things in it were more similar to Forza.. which is now undisputedly the more realistic driving sim. "
you can't really say "undisputed." it's obviously disputed, very much. "


True, it was perhaps a poor choice of words.  I simply meant that I prefer Forza and in most areas it seems more indepth and realistic.

I don't think it's massively better but I certainly object to claims that GT5 is plainly the better racer.

Posted by ProfessorEss

I kinda fail to see what the moral of this cautionary tale would be.
 
I'm assuming that GT5 will destroy the sales of it's competitors and that the day they announce GT6 we'll all realize that the game's brand is no worse for wear.
 
If both of these turn out to be true what lesson was learned?

Posted by OldManLight
@ProfessorEss
I kinda fail to see what the moral of this cautionary tale would be.
 
I'm assuming that GT5 will destroy the sales of it's competitors and that the day they announce GT6 we'll all realize that the game's brand is no worse for wear.
 
If both of these turn out to be true what lesson was learned?
Which is I why I feel like it SHOULD be a cautionary tale. Does anyone really want to wait another 6 years for another game in a franchise they really like? What if the next uncharted came out 5 years from now and it does one thing really well but the rest of it kinda sucks. You can't tell me you wouldn't be super bummed they took that long to make it. I just think its a bad precendent to be set. Excuse the apples to oranges comparison but I feel its valid.
Posted by OldManLight
@WinterSnowblind agree there, I feel that forza overall is a more fun racing game. I personally am willing to sacrifice a little realism in the name of fun which is why this gran turismo is sort of a bummer because forza has been keeping me fed with their version of a "car porn" game the past 6 years. Not trying to say its a bad game but the criticism "what have you been doing the past 6 years?" Deserves acknowledgement because this doesn't seem like a game that took 6 years to make.
Edited by Jeust
@KaosAngel said:

" The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "

for 500$ i would be crying my eyes out despite how much quality the game has. ahaha 
Posted by crunchUK
@KaosAngel said:
" The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
This is so unbelievably wrong. Difficulty doesn't necessarily equate to accuracy or realism, and with GT5 in many cases it's completely off. Let's take braking, in a RWD car this is a ridiculously difficult task for some reason, but when exactly was the last time you saw a REAL car spin horribly under heavy braking? The answer is never, because pretty much every single road car has front brake bias, meaning of course that under braking the car STABILIZES itself. Look, and you'll see that the front disks on any road car are much bigger than the rears, it's pretty much inescapable and inherent (Especially since there is no way to upgrade the brakes in GT5). Hell, even F1 drivers use front brake bias 99.9% of the time, despite the rear tyres being much larger and benefiting from all that massive double diffusor and rear wing-induced downforce at the back.  
 
It might come as a shock, but cars are actually designed to be easy to drive. Could you imagine how impossible driving in the real world would be if they handled anything like they did in GT5? It's easy to have a learning curve for braking in a video game, but in real life the trees are very 3 dimensional and solid upon impact. And yes, I drive in real life, I also go karting. And yes, I have played GT5. 
Posted by HitmanAgent47

I blame the cell processor because it's heavily used and creating premium cars is too unefficient on it. If they done developement and port it from the pc, they will be done in half the time. Also the problem is that polyphony doesn't really research their competitiors at all, they only done it once during E3 or something. This game is now 85% on gamerankings and that's totally not up to standard.

Posted by sharkeh
@EdIsCool said:
" @WinterSnowblind said:

" @KaosAngel said:

"The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "

While I am enjoying the game, I find these comments rather puzzling.  The AI, driving mechanics, damage and tuning are all much better or more indepth in Forza.  It's only disadvantage in terms of gameplay is the variety, obviously lacking things like the go karting or NASCAR as well as the fact the 360 has a really terrible wheel peripheral.  (Hopefully someone can come out with a better one, or one that could actually work with both systems, which would make the investment actually worth it). It's still a solid game, and again, but for the most part it does make me wish a lot of things in it were more similar to Forza.. which is now undisputedly the more realistic driving sim. "
Strange, I find Forza's driving incredibly anaemic, it just feels dead. Take a Lotus Elise out in GT, apply too much gas on the exit of a corner, spin horribly smash off the barriers on both sides..and PRAISE KAZU!! FOR THAT WAS AWESOME!! If you were buying a present for someone however, buy Forza. Also the "this is the most realistic simulation" stuff will have to die. All of that stuff is on the PC and always will be. Grand Prix Legends etc,because that stuff is niche as hell. "
 
Try turning all the driving assists off in forza and the same will happen. I have both games and prefer forza, not because I'm a "biased Xbotzor fanboi" but because that's just my opinion after having played both. It's all a problem of the dev time, if GT5 had come out 3 or 4 years earlier it would of been fine but the driving genre has moved on and they missed the boat.
Posted by Binman88
@crunchUK said:
" @KaosAngel said:
" The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
This is so unbelievably wrong. Difficulty doesn't necessarily equate to accuracy or realism, and with GT5 in many cases it's completely off. Let's take braking, in a RWD car this is a ridiculously difficult task for some reason, but when exactly was the last time you saw a REAL car spin horribly under heavy braking? The answer is never, because pretty much every single road car has front brake bias, meaning of course that under braking the car STABILIZES itself. Look, and you'll see that the front disks on any road car are much bigger than the rears, it's pretty much inescapable and inherent (Especially since there is no way to upgrade the brakes in GT5). Hell, even F1 drivers use front brake bias 99.9% of the time, despite the rear tyres being much larger and benefiting from all that massive double diffusor and rear wing-induced downforce at the back.   It might come as a shock, but cars are actually designed to be easy to drive. Could you imagine how impossible driving in the real world would be if they handled anything like they did in GT5? It's easy to have a learning curve for braking in a video game, but in real life the trees are very 3 dimensional and solid upon impact. And yes, I drive in real life, I also go karting. And yes, I have played GT5.  "
Actually nearly all RWD cars in the game control differently. A fully upgraded/tuned  '89 Fairlady Z (FR) will stick to the road like glue around corners at high speeds, and is very easy to control exiting corners - you'll actually have a hard time trying to spin it. As for saying cars in the real world don't spin out, well, you don't usually employ harsh acceleration or drive around town at anywhere near the speeds you drive in game. Drive between 50 and 120 km/h in game and you'll find nearly any car is simple to control. You also don't see racing drivers spin out that often because they're professionals, and know a little bit more about racing cars than you do. I have no idea what position you feel you're in to comment on how cars handle just because you drive a car to the shops and go karting! Lol! Cars are designed to be easy enough to drive, not necessarily easy to race.
Posted by crunchUK
@Binman88 said:
" @crunchUK said:
" @KaosAngel said:
" The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
This is so unbelievably wrong. Difficulty doesn't necessarily equate to accuracy or realism, and with GT5 in many cases it's completely off. Let's take braking, in a RWD car this is a ridiculously difficult task for some reason, but when exactly was the last time you saw a REAL car spin horribly under heavy braking? The answer is never, because pretty much every single road car has front brake bias, meaning of course that under braking the car STABILIZES itself. Look, and you'll see that the front disks on any road car are much bigger than the rears, it's pretty much inescapable and inherent (Especially since there is no way to upgrade the brakes in GT5). Hell, even F1 drivers use front brake bias 99.9% of the time, despite the rear tyres being much larger and benefiting from all that massive double diffusor and rear wing-induced downforce at the back.   It might come as a shock, but cars are actually designed to be easy to drive. Could you imagine how impossible driving in the real world would be if they handled anything like they did in GT5? It's easy to have a learning curve for braking in a video game, but in real life the trees are very 3 dimensional and solid upon impact. And yes, I drive in real life, I also go karting. And yes, I have played GT5.  "
Actually nearly all RWD cars in the game control differently. A fully upgraded/tuned  '89 Fairlady Z (FR) will stick to the road like glue around corners at high speeds, and is very easy to control exiting corners - you'll actually have a hard time trying to spin it. As for saying cars in the real world don't spin out, well, you don't usually employ harsh acceleration or drive around town at anywhere near the speeds you drive in game. Drive between 50 and 120 km/h in game and you'll find nearly any car is simple to control. You also don't see racing drivers spin out that often because they're professionals, and know a little bit more about racing cars than you do. I have no idea what position you feel you're in to comment on how cars handle just because you drive a car to the shops and go karting! Lol! Cars are designed to be easy enough to drive, not necessarily easy to race. "
Interesting. Care to respond to my example now? You seem to have mentioned everything that isn't relevant to it, which makes me think you don't even understand it let alone able to find fault with it. And I think you'll find BMW engineers its M3 from the ground up so that a clueless but wealthy businessman can drive it very fast round the nuburgring without dying. 
 
It's easy to make up credentials on the internet, isn't it? I think this conversation is at an end, there's a woeful smell of fanboyism coming from the drains, and a strange superiority complex that originates from thinking you're pr0 at a game that is unnecessarily difficult (See: example) yet not particularly realistic and behind by many years.
Posted by Binman88
@crunchUK: Whoa! I seem to have hit a nerve there! Credentials? I didn't claim anything about myself. Fanboyism? I was merely pointing out the obvious fact that a car's handling at high speeds is very different to that when you're driving down the road to the supermarket!  
 
It's almost as if you came into this thread to antagonise and argue, because all I did was respond to your post pretty calmly, yet you've flown off the handle like an upset infant!
Posted by mordukai
@crunchUK said:
" @Binman88 said:
" @crunchUK said:
" @KaosAngel said:
" The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
This is so unbelievably wrong. Difficulty doesn't necessarily equate to accuracy or realism, and with GT5 in many cases it's completely off. Let's take braking, in a RWD car this is a ridiculously difficult task for some reason, but when exactly was the last time you saw a REAL car spin horribly under heavy braking? The answer is never, because pretty much every single road car has front brake bias, meaning of course that under braking the car STABILIZES itself. Look, and you'll see that the front disks on any road car are much bigger than the rears, it's pretty much inescapable and inherent (Especially since there is no way to upgrade the brakes in GT5). Hell, even F1 drivers use front brake bias 99.9% of the time, despite the rear tyres being much larger and benefiting from all that massive double diffusor and rear wing-induced downforce at the back.   It might come as a shock, but cars are actually designed to be easy to drive. Could you imagine how impossible driving in the real world would be if they handled anything like they did in GT5? It's easy to have a learning curve for braking in a video game, but in real life the trees are very 3 dimensional and solid upon impact. And yes, I drive in real life, I also go karting. And yes, I have played GT5.  "
Actually nearly all RWD cars in the game control differently. A fully upgraded/tuned  '89 Fairlady Z (FR) will stick to the road like glue around corners at high speeds, and is very easy to control exiting corners - you'll actually have a hard time trying to spin it. As for saying cars in the real world don't spin out, well, you don't usually employ harsh acceleration or drive around town at anywhere near the speeds you drive in game. Drive between 50 and 120 km/h in game and you'll find nearly any car is simple to control. You also don't see racing drivers spin out that often because they're professionals, and know a little bit more about racing cars than you do. I have no idea what position you feel you're in to comment on how cars handle just because you drive a car to the shops and go karting! Lol! Cars are designed to be easy enough to drive, not necessarily easy to race. "
Interesting. Care to respond to my example now? You seem to have mentioned everything that isn't relevant to it, which makes me think you don't even understand it let alone able to find fault with it. And I think you'll find BMW engineers its M3 from the ground up so that a clueless but wealthy businessman can drive it very fast round the nuburgring without dying.  It's easy to make up credentials on the internet, isn't it? I think this conversation is at an end, there's a woeful smell of fanboyism coming from the drains, and a strange superiority complex that originates from thinking you're pr0 at a game that is unnecessarily difficult (See: example) yet not particularly realistic and behind by many years. "  
How ironic of you to call him a fanboy since everyone here knows you are the biggest Forza fanboy on these boards. 
Posted by gamb1t
@crunchUK said:
" @KaosAngel said:
" The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "
This is so unbelievably wrong. Difficulty doesn't necessarily equate to accuracy or realism, and with GT5 in many cases it's completely off. Let's take braking, in a RWD car this is a ridiculously difficult task for some reason, but when exactly was the last time you saw a REAL car spin horribly under heavy braking? The answer is never, because pretty much every single road car has front brake bias, meaning of course that under braking the car STABILIZES itself. Look, and you'll see that the front disks on any road car are much bigger than the rears, it's pretty much inescapable and inherent (Especially since there is no way to upgrade the brakes in GT5). Hell, even F1 drivers use front brake bias 99.9% of the time, despite the rear tyres being much larger and benefiting from all that massive double diffusor and rear wing-induced downforce at the back.   It might come as a shock, but cars are actually designed to be easy to drive. Could you imagine how impossible driving in the real world would be if they handled anything like they did in GT5? It's easy to have a learning curve for braking in a video game, but in real life the trees are very 3 dimensional and solid upon impact. And yes, I drive in real life, I also go karting. And yes, I have played GT5.  "
This guy is a fu*#$ng idiot. No shock there is UK in his alias. You sound just like michael bisping.
Posted by crunchUK

I can't be bothered to deal with troll posts, so I'll just leave this here again. 
 
  Let's take braking, in a RWD car this is a ridiculously difficult task for some reason, but when exactly was the last time you saw a REAL car spin horribly under heavy braking? The answer is never, because pretty much every single road car has front brake bias, meaning of course that under braking the car STABILIZES itself. Look, and you'll see that the front disks on any road car are much bigger than the rears, it's pretty much inescapable and inherent (Especially since there is no way to upgrade the brakes in GT5). Hell, even F1 drivers use front brake bias 99.9% of the time, despite the rear tyres being much larger and benefiting from all that massive double diffusor and rear wing-induced downforce at the back.     
 
I'm not a forza fanboy, I couldn't care less about what I'm playing is called but forza is just as good as it gets without splashing out on a gaming PC/decent PC wheel/iRacing subscription. Imagine if a racing fan like me had bought a ps3 instead of an xbox in 2007... yeah...

Posted by Reizarvg
@EdIsCool said:
" @WinterSnowblind said:

" @KaosAngel said:

"The problems people have with the game aren't that important to the hardcore GT fans who just want the extreme difficulty and simulation.    To me, it's the best driving sim...and totally worth the $500+ I paid for the game, wheel, stand, etc.    It's a shitty ass game, but a perfect driving sim. "

While I am enjoying the game, I find these comments rather puzzling.  The AI, driving mechanics, damage and tuning are all much better or more indepth in Forza.  It's only disadvantage in terms of gameplay is the variety, obviously lacking things like the go karting or NASCAR as well as the fact the 360 has a really terrible wheel peripheral.  (Hopefully someone can come out with a better one, or one that could actually work with both systems, which would make the investment actually worth it). It's still a solid game, and again, but for the most part it does make me wish a lot of things in it were more similar to Forza.. which is now undisputedly the more realistic driving sim. "
Strange, I find Forza's driving incredibly anaemic, it just feels dead. Take a Lotus Elise out in GT, apply too much gas on the exit of a corner, spin horribly smash off the barriers on both sides..and PRAISE KAZU!! FOR THAT WAS AWESOME!!
I've lost count of the amount of times I've done that to my Elise in Forza 3.