Perrin's forum posts

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#1 Posted by Perrin (44 posts) -

You might also notice that of the positive user reviews 4 of the 7 are that person's only review. Since they've got a bunch of games on their account my guess would be developers or friends of the developers.

#2 Posted by Perrin (44 posts) -

Hmm.... I think I might know why you lost so much progress. Thing is right the game actually saves constantly, whenever you solve anything or go into a new room. If it's thrown you back that far it must be to do with Steam's cloud saving. The quick shutdown must have meant Steam went down before it could synch the new save file. Then when you reloaded it went back to the last time the cloud save was synched. That's probably my fault for trusting the latest cloud save I find is always the latest. That's gonna be a tricky one to fix. Will need to do something to check if the game's internal save data is newer than the cloud data.

#3 Edited by Perrin (44 posts) -

Sorry, not sure there's much I can do about Windows Update shutting the game down. Pretty sure Windows Update can do that on any game if it wants to. However the game should autosave every time you walk through a door, so you should never lose much progress.

#4 Posted by Perrin (44 posts) -

@CosmicQueso said:

His failure to provide support for his product is "the business angle". All I've said is that it's bad business for him to not support the game fully and to blame Microsoft rather than take responsibility. He is choosing to not patch the game, thereby saving himself a few thousand bucks, and in turn hurting his customer and his own long-term business.

Well it's your opinion it's bad business not to fully patch out all the bugs. I'm not sure it's that black and white, there's tons of games with known bugs that never get patched out when it doesn't make financial sense. This one is just being held up as an outrage because it's a very public display of why that often happens.

@CosmicQueso said:

His selling his game for profit basically removes any "emotional angle" as well. Were he giving it away, or selling it for charity or some other thing then yes, it's different. Here, he is selling his game for profit and therefore the burden of responsibility of having a fully functional product is on him. It doesn't matter if it's two guys or two hundred people.

See I don't get this at all. Maybe I'm just more capable of connecting with other human beings. I don't particularly feel that as soon as someone tries to sell me something I am no longer capable of having any kind of emotional connection with them and their creative process. Sounds pretty cold hearted to me. If I'm buying a sandwich from some local Deli I feel a better connection with the guy behind the till who owns the shop than I do with some minimum wage kid at MacDonalds. In both cases I'm buying food from a for profit entity but there's a big difference in how I relate with the people involved. That you instantly disconnect from anyone selling you something seems pretty damn strange to me.

@CosmicQueso said:

And I haven't "whined" at all. Not sure why you're reading anything like that in what I've written.

Not sure you know what whining means. That's all you've done.

@CosmicQueso said:

It's the customer's personal choice what to do with his or her money. I'm just stating that if Fish wants to do this long-term, he's going to run out of people who will be willing to support him. No one likes working with an asshole.

Seems pretty unlikely that people are gonna boycott his next game because less than 1% of people who'd nearly finished Fez lost their save data. Fez was a wonderful game, can't wait to see what he does next. The whiners will have a new game they're hating on by next week and will forget all this.

#5 Edited by Perrin (44 posts) -

@CosmicQueso said:

@Perrin said:

Not sure it's hypocrisy to show more sympathy to a two man development team than to a huge multinational corporation. If anything that's being an understanding human being rather than a maths crunching robot...

Neither deserves sympathy. Both are businesses competing for customer dollars. The customer has the right to cut Fish slack if they choose, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to.

I never said he deserved it I just said that showing it would be a sign that you can see the difference between the work of a small group of people lacking the support and resources of a large corporation. I don't think there's anything unreasonable or hypocritical to cut someone some slack on a personal project they've worked on for five years. Sure the bigger games are made by people too but they're huge teams led by financial imperatives and I have a had time connecting with that form of game development. For me though as a person, someone says to me I've made this game, it's something meaningful to me I can connect with that. I can show them some sympathy when things are not going smoothly. Because it's like one or two dudes and I can relate with them. Shame you see it in such a cold relationship of customer and supplier. This is maths robot thing I was talking about.

@CosmicQueso said:

@Perrin said:

However if you want to play the business game and say he made certain business decisions and now he has to stick by them. Well that's exactly what he's doing here.

No, he's not. He's not saying "I take responsibility for this. I apologize to you, my customer, and promise it will never happen again. And to make good I will..." He's saying that Microsoft is the bad guy, that there's nothing he can do and that he's a victim, after he's collected all his money from people who bought Fez. Big difference.

Once again you've countered with something I didn't say. I wasn't talking about who takes responsibility, and let's just get our heads on straight here we're still talking about a bug you and most players will never see. Your maths robot opinion was that he made a business call moving to Micrososft and i'm just countering that he's equally made a business decision in not patching.

@CosmicQueso said:

@Perrin said:

Ultimately most of the people up in arms about this aren't affected by this. It only affects the people who played the shit out of it and love the game dearly. The people complaining are the usual internet outrage crowd. Who love to get a moral high horse over everything going on in the games industry. Chillax.

I am not on any kind of moral high horse, other than I think that any consumer deserves to be treated with transparency, honesty, and a willingness to make wrong right. If anything, I think it casts an unfortunate light on the whole indie scene, where most of the developers are doing everything they can to delight their customers and who are doing the right things. Passing the buck to your customer and basically saying "tough, I already have your money and will not be ponying up to support you" is nothing other than bad business on his part. His decision to go this route, his responsibility for the good and the bad results.

You are totally on the highest of horses. If you were a customer who felt you'd been ripped off I could understand your position. However you're arguing a theoretical slight that only affects some of the people who love the game the most and I would suspect those who, unlike you, are willing to excuse the inconvenience due to the quality of the game. You're talking like he's conned people out of their money, when if anything this new patch ensures that 99%+ players will have a much better experience with the game.

In tl;dr terms my problem with your position is that you're unwilling to accept the emotional angle that is just two guys so cut them slack, you're unwilling to accept the business angle that it doesn't make sense for them to patch it, and mostly you're just whining about something that doesn't affect you but are acting like you've been personally wronged.

#6 Edited by Perrin (44 posts) -

@CosmicQueso said:

As a paying customer, it shouldn't matter how much money a developer has or doesn't have. My $15 to Fish is no less valuable than my $15 to someone like EA. The burden is on Fish to earn my money. The idea that he's getting a free pass from so many here for producing a game that has a major flaw that he knows can impact hundreds if not thousands of players is disgusting. Consumers should demand the same value from Fish as they do from any content provider. And to not do so is pure hypocrisy.

EDIT - And yes, by agreeing to come out on this platform with its terms and conditions (which have not changed since he signed the agreement) he has no right to claim poverty and to point the finger at third parties. He made these agreements, he created the product and ultimately he has the responsibility to do right by his customers. Had he gone with other services he'd be able to patch no problem. But he didn't. He wanted the benefit of going exclusive with MS without also taking on the additional burdens that go along with it. His choice, his responsibility. It is not ours to suffer with the negative impacts of his business choices.

Not sure it's hypocrisy to show more sympathy to a two man development team than to a huge multinational corporation. If anything that's being an understanding human being rather than a maths crunching robot. It seems a lot of people love to support the indies through the good times, when a great game comes out from one or two guys and they sell it cheap everyone is loving how they made it against the odds. However the flip side is not every developer is gonna have such a smooth ride and maybe it's worth remembering it's people at the other end.

However if you want to play the business game and say he made certain business decisions and now he has to stick by them. Well that's exactly what he's doing here. He chose Microsoft because 5 years ago that seemed like the smart business decision for indies. Now 5 years later, he's looking at the costs associated with patching on Microsoft's console and deciding that not fixing it is the smart business decision. You think any big company will patch you up because they OWE you a bug free game, hell no it will always be looked at based on if it's a sensible use of money.

Ultimately most of the people up in arms about this aren't affected by this. It only affects the people who played the shit out of it and love the game dearly. The people complaining are the usual internet outrage crowd. Who love to get a moral high horse over everything going on in the games industry. Chillax.

#7 Posted by Perrin (44 posts) -

There's been a ton of indie devs trying and failing to kickstart fund their passion projects for some time now. It's taken Tim Schaefer to really show the masses what was already going on there. It's obviously quite depressing for some developers who don't get the money they need but it's also understandable in many cases.

There's a lot of first time devs trying to convince people they'll make an epic game if only someone pays their salary for a year or so. I kind of feel like these projects should fail to get funding because these are people full of ambition, lacking in experience asking to someone else to pay for them to probably fail.

I think Double Fine and Wasteland showed the more positive potential for Kickstarter, that established developers with small to medium size projects that would appeal to the public but not to publishers can get their audience to pay up front and make it happen. It's just still gonna be an uphill slog for the lesser known or more inexperienced devs, who are going to need to ask for more modest amounts or do some amazing marketing.

#8 Posted by Perrin (44 posts) -

I really wanted a portable retro system last year and after looking GP2X and Pandora's and such I realised the cheapest option was to get a PSP Go (since they're basically giving them away on eBay) and hack it. I've not got any PSP games on it at all it's just a lovely little hand held retro machine now. Great screen, great buttons. Thanks Sony.

#9 Posted by Perrin (44 posts) -

Until I saw this thread on the front page I hadn't even realised there were people who didn't like what Patrick has brought to the site up until now. Before Patrick arrived Giant Bomb had already become my favourite site just because it seems one of the few left that actually enjoy playing games and are always looking for new ways to have fun with the subject. Patrick to me has just stepped the site up an extra level. Apart from Rock Paper Shotgun it's hard to find any other outlets that talk about games without just being a PR mouthpiece. I've really welcomed his attempts to find interesting stories and dig deeper into topics than the face value of press releases. I just hope if the attempts at investigate journalism are getting lower hits and a storm of dismissive comments it doesn't deter the site from pushing in that direction.

#10 Posted by Perrin (44 posts) -

@Dr_Ventum said:

@Perrin: If you like doing these I'd suggest checking out the MS Paint Adventures forums if you haven't already. They've got a whole section for fan made adventures and the community is pretty fun.

Ah cool. I read their site but don't check their forums so will have a look into that.

Sorry for those of you who don't like this as advertising. It's one of those tricky things where I have no idea how to find people to play along. So thought I'd just take a punt here.

I do indie game dev as well and with that's there's a ton of places to just legitimately tell people what you're working on without resorting to forum spam. Something a bit weird like this, I'm kinda stumped.

If people aren't interested though we'll just let it die but right now it's still fun. Just lacking in players.

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