Is this PSN hack as bad as the RROD?

Before I get too far in; if you haven't heard the PSN was hacked thanks to custom firmware and registered PSN users personal information (including maybe credit card numbers) was compromised. Thanks GeoHot. SO the question has been running around about whether this is or is not as bad as the RROD. Well Sony managed to handle this in surprisingly Microsoft-esque  fashion by not telling everyone right away. Just kind of hoping it wasn't as bad as it could be and then having to fess up. We won't know how bad this effects Sony's reputation for a few months really, once the problem is solved and hoopla dies down, if the issue still lingers then we will know. For right now I would say no not really but that is only because the RROD was a much larger problem then what the PSN Hack seems to be right now. Having said that if people's credit information is compromised and the worst comes to pass this could be a big black eye on the PlayStation brand.
Sony needs to do something big to make up for this some gesture beyond giving away free PSN downloads. If I were in charge of Sony PR I would make sure a vague mention of this came up in the E3 keynote (along the lines of "We've learned from our mistakes and we are better") and a position was created to both keep in contact with web security and the customers. But I'm not in charge of Sony PR so I'll sit back and watch, I feel they've done a sub-par job thus far with this crisis but they haven't handled it the worst. Already SOny seems to be strengthening the network to protect users, but that isn't enough. If anything I think this will push Sony to price the PS3 at $199 before Microsoft, it would be the kind of big news story you need to cover this stuff up.

On a personal note this is why I am against hacking and home brewing. It opens a platform (and its customers) up to abuse in a way that most hackers don't for see. Geohot may play nice and say he only jail breaked the PS3 to run his own code but this is what happened and he is responsible for it. He is as responsible as Sony for any breach if not more so. Geohot bypassed the security safe guards and this is what happened.

If your information is compromised; I'm sorry, hate GeoHot and the hackers because it happened and hate Sony because they took their time telling you about it.


Edit-
So consensus seems to be that if this is as bad as it could be then this is a worse PR blunder than the RROD. However, it is interesting that most people in the other camp are taking a more relaxed approach to the problem (waiting to see if it is as bad as it could be.) There is also a third group that thinks they are not comparable.
I actually have to agree with both sides here; I think this initial response is pretty bad on Sony's part since the problem may not be as bad as it could be Sony has caused a lot of media attention. Unless credit card info was taken; Sony's worst day (with this fiasco) is behind them, they bit the bullet and told everyone to be cautious. Was that the smart thing to do? If the PSN goes back up in a week and nothing else happens, no probably not. At the same time if everything is ok, people will always say that at least Sony told them. Once again I think it is too early to tell because Sony only warned us of potential damage, if that comes to pass then the situation changes. PR wise I feel like they handled this "not-bad" like a C-. Sure it will give a little more gas to the flame wars but really at the end of the day at least they told us they screwed the pooch.
155 Comments
157 Comments
  • 157 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Posted by Punk1984

Before I get too far in; if you haven't heard the PSN was hacked thanks to custom firmware and registered PSN users personal information (including maybe credit card numbers) was compromised. Thanks GeoHot. SO the question has been running around about whether this is or is not as bad as the RROD. Well Sony managed to handle this in surprisingly Microsoft-esque  fashion by not telling everyone right away. Just kind of hoping it wasn't as bad as it could be and then having to fess up. We won't know how bad this effects Sony's reputation for a few months really, once the problem is solved and hoopla dies down, if the issue still lingers then we will know. For right now I would say no not really but that is only because the RROD was a much larger problem then what the PSN Hack seems to be right now. Having said that if people's credit information is compromised and the worst comes to pass this could be a big black eye on the PlayStation brand.
Sony needs to do something big to make up for this some gesture beyond giving away free PSN downloads. If I were in charge of Sony PR I would make sure a vague mention of this came up in the E3 keynote (along the lines of "We've learned from our mistakes and we are better") and a position was created to both keep in contact with web security and the customers. But I'm not in charge of Sony PR so I'll sit back and watch, I feel they've done a sub-par job thus far with this crisis but they haven't handled it the worst. Already SOny seems to be strengthening the network to protect users, but that isn't enough. If anything I think this will push Sony to price the PS3 at $199 before Microsoft, it would be the kind of big news story you need to cover this stuff up.

On a personal note this is why I am against hacking and home brewing. It opens a platform (and its customers) up to abuse in a way that most hackers don't for see. Geohot may play nice and say he only jail breaked the PS3 to run his own code but this is what happened and he is responsible for it. He is as responsible as Sony for any breach if not more so. Geohot bypassed the security safe guards and this is what happened.

If your information is compromised; I'm sorry, hate GeoHot and the hackers because it happened and hate Sony because they took their time telling you about it.


Edit-
So consensus seems to be that if this is as bad as it could be then this is a worse PR blunder than the RROD. However, it is interesting that most people in the other camp are taking a more relaxed approach to the problem (waiting to see if it is as bad as it could be.) There is also a third group that thinks they are not comparable.
I actually have to agree with both sides here; I think this initial response is pretty bad on Sony's part since the problem may not be as bad as it could be Sony has caused a lot of media attention. Unless credit card info was taken; Sony's worst day (with this fiasco) is behind them, they bit the bullet and told everyone to be cautious. Was that the smart thing to do? If the PSN goes back up in a week and nothing else happens, no probably not. At the same time if everything is ok, people will always say that at least Sony told them. Once again I think it is too early to tell because Sony only warned us of potential damage, if that comes to pass then the situation changes. PR wise I feel like they handled this "not-bad" like a C-. Sure it will give a little more gas to the flame wars but really at the end of the day at least they told us they screwed the pooch.
Posted by PenguinDust

No.  I believe the RROD cost Microsoft sales.  The PSN debacle isn't something that will creep into the lexicon like "red ring of death" has.  It's all about image and right now Sony is suffering but the RROD was a persistent problem that lasted years.  The Sony PSN fiasco will be gone and forgotten before summer begins...providing wide spread credit card fraud doesn't occur.  If that happens then it will reignite the conversation over how safe is any e-purchase and that could impact lots of online retailers, not just Sony. 

Online
Posted by wickedsc3

Its worse, I would rather have my machine break and the company fix it for free than have my life savings being at risk.

Posted by canucks23

I don't think it's really comparable. They both suck.

Posted by Napalm

As bad? Dude, your personal information, including passwords and accounts are out in the open. It's fuckin' far worse than the RRoD debacle.

Posted by blueduck
@wickedsc3 said:
" Its worse, I would rather have my machine break and the company fix it for free than have my life savings being at risk. "
This. Just as the PS3 was hitting its stride too.
Posted by TheBlindChessman

If I could choose between my name, date of birth, address, passwords and credit cards details being stolen, or my console breaking, I'd choose console breaking every time.

If credit card info has really gone (we don't know yet if it has) then this is much, much worse that RRoD.

Posted by Napalm

Also, the RRoD still lingers, there is no way in hell that Sony will ever live this down.

Posted by damswedon

The RROD is annoying, Identity Theft is miles worse.

Posted by Punk1984
@wickedsc3: @Napalm: Since I couldn't have said it better myself...

@PenguinDust said:
" No.  I believe the RROD cost Microsoft sales.  The PSN debacle isn't something that will creep into the lexicon like "red ring of death" has.  It's all about image and right now Sony is suffering but the RROD was a persistent problem that lasted years.  The Sony PSN fiasco will be gone and forgotten before summer begins...providing wide spread credit card fraud doesn't occur.  If that happens then it will reignite the conversation over how safe is any e-purchase and that could impact lots of online retailers, not just Sony.  "
What he said. ^

Anyone who thinks this is a worse PR Crisis then the RRoD is; too young, too stupid or too myopic to understand that people still don't buy Xbox 360s because they think they might break. Sony hopes this storm will be long passed by E3; as a customer and for their customers I hope they are right.
Posted by AlexW00d
@Napalm said:
" As bad? Dude, your personal information, including passwords and accounts are out in the open. It's fuckin' far worse than the RRoD debacle. "
Possibly. They are only saying that it is a possibility remember. It could turn out no-one at all was affected. Obviously it could turn out the other way, but still.

And I think the RRoD bullshit was much worse, at the moment. If it turns out that people's debit card details got out then yeah, that would be pretty bad, but at the moment, we don't honestly know what has gotten into the hands of these hacking sorts. Only time will tell.
Edited by smitty86

Eh. They are both bad . But I think that the RRoD had more of a direct effect of people just saying "fuck this" while this with PSN will be more determined by how it results. Yeah, information may or may not be out there and people may or may not use it but so far there is not really anything to base an opinion on. Just some scattered (and seemingly sketchy reports) of people getting $300 taken out of their account. This may just be like the Gawker hack thing. People get all worked up about it when it happens but by next week, nobody cares anymore as nothing has really developed from it. Now if reports start coming out that vast amounts of money are flying out of PSN users accounts, then there will be a lasting black eye on Sony. This as it looks at the moment comes off more like a pants wetting.

Posted by Quacktastic

Time will tell.  RRoD had a 1 billion dollar price tag though, so that is pretty hard to beat.

Posted by Napalm
@AlexW00d: My main concern were accounts, passwords and card details. You can literally find out so much stuff just from public domain on people. Name? Address? That's all findable on the internet through legit means. Credit cards and passwords? Those... not so much.
Posted by Jimbo

I don't give a shit about PSN being down, but I'd rather have my 360 break than have my personal information stolen because Sony failed to protect it properly.  If I got burned, I'd certainly think twice about trusting them with it again in future.

Posted by benjaebe

Stop making it a console war thing. This has broad implications in more than just 'what was worse, RROD or Sony being hacked' because those two things aren't even comparable. It's basically a warning of any kind of e-shopping - it could've been anyone, it just happened to be Sony and their complete fuckwittery with some aspects of their security.

Posted by rybrad
@wickedsc3 said:
" Its worse, I would rather have my machine break and the company fix it for free than have my life savings being at risk. "
This. Losing a console is nothing compared to potential identity theft and fraud.
Posted by Napalm
@Jimbo said:
" I don't give a shit about PSN being down, but I'd rather have my 360 break than have my personal information stolen because Sony failed to protect it properly.  If I got burned, I'd certainly think twice about trusting them with it again in future. "
They should definitely invest a large sum into user security protocols, and sometime soon, state their plans to ensure something like this doesn't happen again.
Posted by Rockdalf

Let's look at it this way.  Sony's crisis is "Someone may have your personal information and may do something with it".  Microsoft basically took money from your fucking wallet themselves when you bought a console (at one point in time) that would in all likelihood just stop working.

Posted by Vinny_Says

Not really comparable, but on a scale of better or worse, putting personal information at risk is worse than having your console overheat and break.

Posted by Niall_Sg1

Worse, in the RROD you just went without a console for a while, then they sent you a new one. In this your details and possibly bank details are the hands of god knows who.

Posted by BonOrbitz

No comparison- this is a lot worse because there's a big difference between a mass hardware failure and mass identity theft that affects personal lives. Will this hit Sony harder than RROD hit Microsoft? I hope so because I'm very upset about this (right now). I understand it's a risk I take dealing with a net presence and commerce, but it's something I need to learn from regarding passwords, log-in names, etc....

 If I was a betting man, Sony's stance on the current credit card question tells me that information was compromised as well.

Posted by wickedsc3
@Punk1984 said:
" @wickedsc3: @Napalm: Since I couldn't have said it better myself...

@PenguinDust said:
" No.  I believe the RROD cost Microsoft sales.  The PSN debacle isn't something that will creep into the lexicon like "red ring of death" has.  It's all about image and right now Sony is suffering but the RROD was a persistent problem that lasted years.  The Sony PSN fiasco will be gone and forgotten before summer begins...providing wide spread credit card fraud doesn't occur.  If that happens then it will reignite the conversation over how safe is any e-purchase and that could impact lots of online retailers, not just Sony.  "
What he said. ^

Anyone who thinks this is a worse PR Crisis then the RRoD is; too young, too stupid or too myopic to understand that people still don't buy Xbox 360s because they think they might break. Sony hopes this storm will be long passed by E3; as a customer and for their customers I hope they are right.
"
Well first off tonight CNN just ran the Playstation article gaining world wide coverage and informing thousands of moms and dads that their credit card could be at risk.  And I believe your too young, too stupid comment more applies to people who think that a RROD is worse than people's debit and credit card information being taken.  Anyone who has a good chunk of change in their back account would agree.  A new xbox cost $300 (easily one weeks work) compared to losing 10k in savings, the two don't even compare.
Posted by Mowgers

Spent the last half hour/ hour changing passwords, need to cancel/ replace card. I've had two E74 errors that seem like fucking peanuts compared to this. If PSN security isn't made tighter than a cat's arsehole after all this then Sony can go fuck themselves right up their own. If they'd been forthcoming right off the bat I wouldn't be so concerned/ angry. 

Posted by zombie2011
@Punk1984 said:
" @wickedsc3:  @Napalm: Since I couldn't have said it better myself...

@PenguinDust said:
" No.  I believe the RROD cost Microsoft sales.  The PSN debacle isn't something that will creep into the lexicon like "red ring of death" has.  It's all about image and right now Sony is suffering but the RROD was a persistent problem that lasted years.  The Sony PSN fiasco will be gone and forgotten before summer begins...providing wide spread credit card fraud doesn't occur.  If that happens then it will reignite the conversation over how safe is any e-purchase and that could impact lots of online retailers, not just Sony.  "
What he said. ^

Anyone who thinks this is a worse PR Crisis then the RRoD is; too young, too stupid or too myopic to understand that people still don't buy Xbox 360s because they think they might break. Sony hopes this storm will be long passed by E3; as a customer and for their customers I hope they are right.
"
Uh, 360 has outsold Wii and PS3 every month for half a year now.
Posted by Punk1984
@benjaebe: This post was a reply to Ryan's tweet earlier. I agree with you this has more implications for e-commerce than it does in the console war.

@Jimbo: @rybrad: @blacklabeldomm:
I hate to keep doing this but;
@Rockdalf said:
" Let's look at it this way.  Sony's crisis is "Someone may have your personal information and may do something with it".  Microsoft basically took money from your fucking wallet themselves when you bought a console (at one point in time) that would in all likelihood just stop working. "
What he said. Also remember we are dealing with the possibility of a hack and not a definite one. Sony could be causing all this hoopla by being overly cautious, maybe all they took was name, address, date of birth (public record stuff) 
Posted by Khann
@Punk1984 said:
" @benjaebe: This post was a reply to Ryan's tweet earlier. I agree with you this has more implications for e-commerce than it does in the console war.

@Jimbo: @rybrad: @blacklabeldomm:
I hate to keep doing this but;
@Rockdalf said:
" Let's look at it this way.  Sony's crisis is "Someone may have your personal information and may do something with it".  Microsoft basically took money from your fucking wallet themselves when you bought a console (at one point in time) that would in all likelihood just stop working. "
What he said. Also remember we are dealing with the possibility of a hack and not a definite one. Sony could be causing all this hoopla by being overly cautious, maybe all they took was name, address, date of birth (public record stuff) 
"
They also replaced them for free, costing them billions in the process.
Posted by Punk1984
@zombie2011: Yeah but they could have sold more.
@bonorbitz: You're upset right now but will this have a lasting effect? Do you think so?
@wickedsc3: I work at a local news station (well below CNN) and we ran 4 major stories on people's Xbox 360's breaking. I would wait to see the media hysteria before you judge. As far as people's savings being liquidated when that happens, it will be an issue. Until it does sit back have a drink and think more about the PR image we are dealing with now. I'm not saying you're wrong of that that couldn't happen just wait until you're local news covers it.
Posted by Dany

I have this orange and an apple...

Posted by Punk1984
 @Khann said:
They also replaced them for free, costing them billions in the process. "
Yeah it is a pretty big monetary hole to fill.
Posted by Jimbo
@Punk1984 said:
" @benjaebe: This post was a reply to Ryan's tweet earlier. I agree with you this has more implications for e-commerce than it does in the console war.

@Jimbo: @rybrad: @blacklabeldomm:
I hate to keep doing this but;
@Rockdalf said:
" Let's look at it this way.  Sony's crisis is "Someone may have your personal information and may do something with it".  Microsoft basically took money from your fucking wallet themselves when you bought a console (at one point in time) that would in all likelihood just stop working. "
What he said. Also remember we are dealing with the possibility of a hack and not a definite one. Sony could be causing all this hoopla by being overly cautious, maybe all they took was name, address, date of birth (public record stuff) 
"
I value the security of my personal info a sight higher than the cost of a 360.
Posted by SuperfluousMoniker

I really don't think the personal info thing is as big a deal as people are making it out to be. Even if they got the credit card info the chances of me personally being hurt by this are practically zero. Maybe they'll send out a bunch of phishing emails, big whoop. If it turns out they got the CC info, I'll call my bank and get a new debit card. Problem solved. I'm not too concerned about my name and address being there among a sea of hundreds of thousands of other ones.

Posted by WinterSnowblind

Depends how we're looking at things.  I agree that the two issues shouldn't really be compared..


I had an Xbox that RRoD, they replaced it for free within a week and I've never had any more issues.  Here, all my personal information (including potentially my credit card) have been stolen and shared between god only knows who, which could lead to much bigger problems.  There shouldn't even need to be a question of which is worse.
Posted by Captain_Felafel

It's worse cause my personal information is worth more than the 2 broken 360's I've replaced. But they're also kind of different things. They both suck ass, this one just so happens to suck ass for more people.

Posted by Punk1984
@Dany said:
" I have this orange and an apple... "
Thanks I just shot CocaCola out of my nose.
Posted by natetodamax

That's not a very intelligent comparison to make.

Posted by JBG4

Worse. Not even close. Sony's incompetence has placed millions of gamers finances at risk.
Posted by Rockdalf
@JBG4 said:
" Worse. Not even close. Sony's incompetence has placed millions of gamers finances at risk. "
I agree, just  noticed the comparison people were making and wanted to point out that getting an early Xbox pretty much guaranteed a RROD.  We don't know the severity of this issue yet, and although I've taken every precaution available to minimize the impact of this in case it takes a turn for the worst, I have doubts much will become of it.

I'd also like to say I don't really have a preference one over the other as far as consoles go, I own both, just wanted to even the playing field as I'm sure a lot of people who are Pro- Xbox are reveling in this right now.
Posted by FancySoapsMan

Too soon to tell I think.

Posted by Doctorchimp
@Punk1984:

I've had one RRoD, which microsoft fixed for free and it took two weeks. Then later on I bought a brand new one to replace the refurbished one.

The PSN is down so I couldn't play with friends, locked me out of my Portal 2 steam copy and co-op either on my PS3 or PC...and I can't play Mortal Kombat...which isn't terrible I guess...

I also spent the day changing passwords and what not around. Oh and Sony is late telling me my personal info is compromised. I'm also debating what to do about my bank card and just say it was stolen and be without a card for a few days...My playstation 3 is primarily a movie machine on top of everything else, so it's sort of a big hassle for something I use once every couple of days....

This PSN breach is worse than the RROD, speaking as someone who experienced both. You can do your fanboy rallying "SONY STILL HAS YOUR BACK!!"  But I'm not feeling it.

I could hate the hackers...or I could hate how Sony's security wasn't that great to begin with and they hit the beehive with their stick.
Posted by Mike76x
@Punk1984 said:

@wickedsc3: I work at a local news station (well below CNN) and we ran 4 major stories on people's Xbox 360's breaking. I would wait to see the media hysteria before you judge. As far as people's savings being liquidated when that happens, it will be an issue. Until it does sit back have a drink and think more about the PR image we are dealing with now. I'm not saying you're wrong of that that couldn't happen just wait until you're local news covers it.
"
Sony owns and is partnered with  several media outlets as well as Comcast and Direct TV.
I wouldn't be surprised if this never get covered no matter how bad it gets.
Posted by xyzygy

I don't think it really matters if anything "comes out of" this or not - it's still really embarassing. A multi-billion dollar corporation has NO IDEA who has your personal banking info and addresses?! And you're seriously trying to say that that's worse than a hardware defect?    

Posted by Punk1984
@Mike76x: As much as you would like to think Sony/Microsoft whomever has that type of power, they don't. You have to really cross someone who actively owns the station in question or be owned by Newscorp. (who has stringent coverage guidelines)
@xyzygy: Maybe I should clarify; Which is a worse PR blunder? The PSN hack or the RROD?
@Doctorchimp: Since you poked my beehive. :) So you've had two Xbox 360s RROD on you, and spent the day switching online passwords? One of them cost you a day and one of them cost you $300? Which is worse?

Granted the PSN has the potential to cost you more but come on, is Sony really out there actively handing out your credit card info. Before you start throwing out the "fanboy" tag maybe tone down the drama a bit.
Posted by JBG4

@Rockdalf:

Getting an early 360 after the reports of the RROD situation came out was just playing with fire because you didn't know if it was, or wasn't, going to happen to your XBOX. However, as consumers and gamers we trusted Sony with our personal information, and had no control over the situation. If you bought an early 360 you made a conscious decision, knowing the risks. This PSN fiasco is something that just crept up on all of us and has millions (and millions, I actually did The Rock pose when I typed that)  worried about their information.

 

So I would say as someone who has no preference in the console wars, and actually have played more PS3 over the last year or so than XBOX, that this may not be the same type of bad situation but for someone who has entrusted essentially their livelihood to Sony. This is a disaster of epic proportions... at least the RROD didn't potentially lower my credit score.

Posted by TehFlan

Not yet, but we don't know how bad the damage is yet, either.

Posted by Enigma777
@Rockdalf said:
" Let's look at it this way.  Sony's crisis is "Someone may have your personal information and may do something with it".  Microsoft basically took money from your fucking wallet themselves when you bought a console (at one point in time) that would in all likelihood just stop working. "
This. You can't compare a "what if" to a well-documented fact. 
Posted by Punk1984
@Enigma777: I will always -always- giggle at your pikachu pic
Posted by Andorski

Possibly?  Yes.  Currently? No.


I'm hoping that Sony is erring on the side of caution and saying that all personal information was likely stolen.  Best case scenario is that their earlier investigation was wrong and no information was taken.  The more likely scenario that can still be good is that while personal information was taken, there will be only a few instances where stolen money or fraud occurs.  I don't remember hearing a whole lot of identity theft being reported after the whole Gawker fiasco, although they surely have far less members than PSN (not to mention that PSN stores CC information as well).

Meanwhile, does anyone have their original fat Xbox 360?  MS did the best thing they could do though and extended the warranty.  So I guess its a question of which is better: Buying a system that will break (but you can get it fixed for free) or having the lingering worry that your information is out there for anyone to use.
Posted by MadaRenrut
@Punk1984: Is your post supposed to be a joke?!  really are you that stupid to compare 360's failing, to identity theft, credit card information out in the open...i am not even going to bother responding to your moronic post.  hardware failure, compared to having personal information and credit card information stolen.  you sir are a moron
Posted by phish09
@Punk1984: @Punk1984 said:
" @wickedsc3: @Napalm: Since I couldn't have said it better myself...

@PenguinDust said:
" No.  I believe the RROD cost Microsoft sales.  The PSN debacle isn't something that will creep into the lexicon like "red ring of death" has.  It's all about image and right now Sony is suffering but the RROD was a persistent problem that lasted years.  The Sony PSN fiasco will be gone and forgotten before summer begins...providing wide spread credit card fraud doesn't occur.  If that happens then it will reignite the conversation over how safe is any e-purchase and that could impact lots of online retailers, not just Sony.  "
What he said. ^

Anyone who thinks this is a worse PR Crisis then the RRoD is; too young, too stupid or too myopic to understand that people still don't buy Xbox 360s because they think they might break. Sony hopes this storm will be long passed by E3; as a customer and for their customers I hope they are right.
"
You don't know what this situation is going to do to potential PS3 buyers yet because the news that Sony may have compromised the personal information of every PS3 owner was just released today.  You don't think way more people will be turned off of the PS3 because of that  then there are people turned off the 360 solely because of the RROD?  If you don't understand how serious identity theft can really be then obviously you have no position calling anyone young or stupid. 

Plus don't neglect the fact that a lof of first gen PS3's have been bricking up lately and the YLOD is almost as widely publicized as the RROD was a few years back.
  • 157 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4