" @rafoXxX: Yeah, whatever. -Videogame narratives are pretty terrible. -WRPG are boring. -The amount of choice available in your average WRPG is silly and superficial. Pretty much the same choices you make in a SMT game,arguably less. - This thread is a thinly veiled backhanded insult I can see the above, quite clearly. "
You can backhand WRPGs all you want. I'm not gonna cry about it. That's your opinion, and that's fine. It won't change the fact that JRPGs have absolutely no RPG in them whatsoever. To go on a side discussion a bit: NGE was a damn good anime. I'm guessing it was too dense or "adult" for ya, or something. I mean, sure, it was like the Twin Peaks of animes, so convoluted it ended up stepping on it's own toes. But I personally like that. That said, you misunderstood. I cited NGE 'coz it's one of the most drama-heavy, angsty, and mainstream soap operaish animes I could think of, not necessarily 'coz of "good" anime (although to me it is). Other examples of good anime, in my opinion, are Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Serial Experiments Lain, and the original Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada. Side rant over.
@davidwitten22 said:
JRPGS have side quests too. Side quests aren't the same thing as "role playing". Freedom, open worlds, etc are not "role playing". They're freedom, and open world, and etc. Yeah Oblivion has tons of side quests, so what. Doesn't make it any more of a "role playing game". "
True, open worlds and etc aren't "role playing". There's a few other missing ingredients necessary. But they sure contribute to a game feeling like your playing a role, especially when you're given the choice of how to create your character, and how he/she/it'll behave withing the confines of a game's contrivances. None of this exists in JRPGs.
@buzz_clik said:
" I'm calling cats "squoggles" from now on, because I prefer that term and if I use it in conversation and you don't understand me, you can screw off. "
That's great! Good for you, dude. And don't let anyone ever tell you any different! Everything is relative. Well, except the fact that JRPGs have no RPGing in them. That's just a universal fact.
@DoctorWelch said:
" This is the stupidest argument ever time someone brings it up because RPG doesnt really mean Role Playing Game. It stands for Role Playing Game, but thats not what it means. RPG, and most other game genre terms, is all relative to the industry and what the industry calls an RPG. So if games like Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger are considered Japanese Role Playing Games, than thats what they are, JRPGs. The dumbest part of this whole argument is, if you really want to get picky about game genre names, than almost every game is an RPG because your playing a role in every game. "
U-huh. And I've already pointed the fact that genre "terms" are a social/financial need to categorize things. This is known. So what? That's not the point. You clearly didn't follow the conversations that led to mentioning that for the sake of this discussion, the RPG term comparison is how closely any actual roleplaying in video games resembles pen-n-paper roleplaying games specifically, therefore invalidating the damn statement that "all games are rpgs" (which, taken out of context of this particular discussion, I actually agree with).
Goddammit almost no one gets the point. Well, a few open minded folks did but all I see here is just near-blind fanboy resentment. Of course, I guess calling JRPGs soap operas was just asking for people to bring out the guns, but that's just how I personallly feel about 'em. Well, whatever. This shit's suddenly become hella entertaining anyway.
@davidwitten22: Ye know, I'm not trying to change the world, so I'm not trying to change your way of seeing things but after saying all I've said about RPGs in general and specifically JRPGs and even if WRPGs had no "freedom" at all, my point is still that JRPGs have absolutely no role-playing in them whatsoever therefore the term not making any sense. Hell, even if WRPGs had never existed ever in history, the "RPG" in JRPGs would still make no sense. There's no JRPG hater in that statement. It's just natural fact. Personally, any JRPG from the Playstation onwards has been absolutely unbearable, and they've seemed to just be getting worse and worse ever since. Just dense. But that's another story.
And of course I don't expect everyone to suddenly adapt to a new terminology. That's crazy (or is it?).
WRPGs (man I'm sick of the "W" and the "J" thing) have contrivances, sure. Some WRPGs are more contrived than others. KOTOR is practically JRPG-like in it's contrivances. But you can't say games like the Elder Scrolls series, Ultima VII, Ultima Underworld, the Fallouts or Baldur's Gate just to name a few don't have their fare share of freedom. You can practically choose to never do the main quest if you wanted. Sure, the main quest is always a straight line, but you can choose to ignore it. That's some degree of freedom, at least.
Also, to be clear: I call 'em soap operas 'coz goddammit they are! Excessive anime'ish drama dense on angst. Fantasy soaps, but soaps nevertheless. And that's ok! It's not a bad thing. I've loved a few animes in my life, not the least of which was Neon Genesis Evangelion, an angst-a-thon if ever there was one. But when considering the good JRPGs like Chrono Trigger/ Cross, Final Fantasy 4/ 6, Earthbound or even the 2 Golden Suns, all those had great, original, captivating truly epic stories. But when JRPGs went polygonal, well... That's all she frikkin' wrote. They went full-on Days of our Lives from then on.
Just as an example to be clear on my "soap opera" thing: I consider Star Trek TNG to have had 70% of it's episodes be like a soap opera in space, yet still I dug 'em. Imagine that.
@mutha3: Well, you know, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. You think WRPGs have bad writing, that probably means you never played the original Fallout, or Baldur's Gate, or Morrowind, but whatever. More power to ya. You enjoy watching cutscenes, hey, you know, why not? You enjoy grinding for hours so you can take on the enemies needed to advance to the next cutscene, good on yer! The point, and you have said nothing to deny it, is that all that has nothing even remotely related to role-playing.
@Juno500: But he did make a valid argument! He said the creator of this thread is a genius!
I must add, I personally loved Morrowind at the time waaay more than how I loved Oblivion. Nevertheless, having played Oblivion, I wouldn't be able to go back to Morrowind. I've tried, and just couldn't.
It's a great, classic, legendary even, game though. Worthy to own, at least as a collection piece. Why not try it and see for yourself?
@Juno500: It really isn't a big deal. But the thing is everyone keeps misinterpreting the point, which is that, specifically in JRPGs, any minimal spec of actually playing a character's role is in fact absent. The rest is the cream topping and the cherry on top.
Why is expressing one's own opinion on things "being a dick"? But then, I admit I am being a teeeeensy bit of a dick in my unrelentingness.
@MattyFTM: I totally agree about the "J" part. Didn't mention it 'coz that's not exactly what my point was, but yea, that too. That said, my point wasn't really to gripe about RPGs as a genre as much as how japanese RPGs haven't even the slightest glimmer of role-playing in them to be labeled thusly.
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