@Jams: What other side of the argument are you referring to? Hell, what's the argument at all? This thread was made to praise TellTale for creating a black main character that didn't fall into the same tired stereotypes that we see constantly in video games. What is it that you'd like to debate here? That video games don't have a problem with racial (or gender) stereotypes? That Lee is not a good example here? What point are you actually trying to make? Because posting a picture of this one black character you know and calling the rest of the thread a "circle jerk" isn't very helpful.
Amen. But is this where we say "can't we all just get along?", and get back to shooting towelheads in Call of Duty? :-)
@LikeaSsur: Saying that Lee is a great character because he is not a stereotype makes perfect sense. You're reiterating the exact point that everyone has been making.
But to go so far as call Lee a great character because he's not a stereotype is beyond ludicrous. His well rounded personality and depth have absolutely nothing to do with his skin color, but everybody else seems to disagree.
@LikeaSsur: See, that is the kind of blather I'm sick of. If I'm white and want to discuss race in stories, I'm either racist for even noticing it or trying to absolve myself of white guilt. I want white people to be able to discuss black people in stories. I want black people to discuss the depiction of white people. I want white writers to write about black people, I want black writers to write about white people. And men about women and vice verca. And old about young and vice verca. I want interesting stories that can see past stereotypes.
Here is a thought: If you're the one trying to tell people what they can or can't do, you're probably not the one being open-minded.
But well done for digging up a bunch of quotes that show how this has been a reasonable and eloquent discussion.
I've noticed that when I write about the game I refer to Lee as myself in the first person. Instead of saying, "I had Lee tell Clementine..." I would write "I told Clementine..." so he really became an avatar for my actions. I never really thought of him in terms of "that black guy" or anything really. The only thoughts of race came up when someone else made a thread about Lee being black or people thinking Clem was white.
I take your point that it was good to not even be conscious of the race factor, and here I come flashing my big thread-making spotlight on it.
I had much the same experience playing the game, that it didn't really enter into my thoughts much. It was only afterwards I thought about it.
But I think that we should be able to talk about this stuff in a sensible manner. Like I said, I think it's obvious that the writers have thought about it too but have found ways to turn it into a narrative strength.
@Rasmoss: Just read a couple of the posts and see how several users are somehow relating the fact that the protagonist is black with the fact that he is a criminal. This sort of stigma is the type of ridiculous belief that makes it just "easier" for the developer to craft a buzz-cut white dude. If a game had a female protagonist that was simply a flirtatious individual, it would be seen as sexist. If the protagonist happened to be Asian and intelligent - someone out there would make the ridiculous connection which would harass the industry and developers.
It's the same thing with Gays as it is Blacks (when it comes to diversity in the gaming industry). It has nothing to do with racism/sexism, but simply the lack of cultural exposure which will remedy itself as time goes on. Once the inherent stigma is released from the common mind, you will see more blacks, gays, women, and other diverse individuals as protagonists. Until then, we just have to understand that the outspoken majority of gamers tend to get their panties in a know which will always put a thorn in the side of progression.
Well, I see a lot of users who recognise and can relate to what we are talking about regarding Lee, and I think this topic has given us a great discussion. I think most of the viewpoints here have been interesting to read. And I do think that Telltale succeed in making Lee a sympathetic and realistic character, despite being black and having committed a crime. I think, barring a few exceptions, that that has been the general feeling.
It's interesting this is mentioned. In the original Night of the living dead the main guy that is focused on is a black guy. This seemingly (I don't know if it was intentional but it really seems to be) was a statement about racism (see the end of Night of the living dead when they assume he's also a zombie and shoot him and drag him out on a fish hook). I kind of assumed it had similar aspirations of underpinnings in the same way in this game. If you read into it. I don't know if that's intentional. It is certainly interesting, but I don't think the focus should be on someones skin color. I have always figured the reason for mostly white guys is because when you write it's easiest to write what you know. Video games have only started to get better writing. For me it makes sense guys are usually white as the guy writing it is white. His immediate attention is not that the character is white if he has any lick of sense. His thought should be on what will do well to round out the character. Often though, when writing, when you get into a good flow, you no longer dictate what happens. You just let it happen. That's how I write anyway- with mixed results. Interestingly the fans often find more in the writing then the author realizes because of this. It's pretty common. That's why when sometimes you ask a question about what something means, the Director of a film or the writer simply may say he doesn't know, or has thought about it and thinks it may be something but doesn't really have the answer. Particularly in the case of good writing, you don't necessarily write things for a reason. You may come up with a situation and let everything else flow from there. That is how I have always written, anyway. Knowing video game attention to detail I am sure there was probably a reason he's black, but I don't think it was ultimately a big deal in the creation process but more of an aesthetic choice as well as possibly an homage.
I appreciate your point, but to put what I said above a bit more bluntly, let's not kid ourselves about the reasons why there aren't more diverse protagonists in games. Money play into this, and the perception that certain characters just won't "sell":
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