Raven10's forum posts

#1 Posted by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

@jeust: I don't see why not. The cost of the disc itself is not that high anymore and as I said, the size of the game on the disc and the scale of the in game world are not proportional in any way so what would make it cost prohibitive? Like I said originally, Rage could easily release a 100 GB HD version if they wished. Many PC games include additional HD texture packs for those with the bandwidth and hard drive space to use them. Another aspect that could take up more space is audio. A lot of audio is super compressed in games, but more and more games are including HD audio for those with the hardware to make use of it. HD audio can take up massive amounts of space and it costs no more to include HD audio over compressed audio. The audio starts at the highest quality and is lowered down to fit onto the disc. If a game were to include 7.1 24 Bit FLAC audio then it could take up 100 GB's easily.

#2 Posted by Raven10 (1947 posts) -
@jeust said:

@brainling said:

@jeust said:

@raven10 said:

Forever is a long time. On current gen systems maybe not. But if you wanted a game made for 4K or 8K monitors then definitely. Almost all textures end up getting compressed before being pressed onto the disc. If you look at something like Rage, that game was over a terabyte uncompressed. At the time it wasn't feasible to release a version more than 25 GB, but they could have made a 100 GB version if they wanted. So long story short, yes, definitely. Maybe not anytime soon but eventually.

Well that is supposing that it will ever be proffitable that amount of work on a game... If at 40GB the game it is already bordering on financially unfeasable, then if they ever reach 100GB+ it probably is insanity as of now.

Forever is a long time, but will we and consoles live long enough reach those extremes? With every variable from digital distribution, to development costs it is hard to say if it will ever happen.

You can't compare size to cost quite that linearly. As texture sizes go up, the tools used to create them get better. At some point purely photo realistic super high res textures become the norm, which are no harder to create, they are just huge. Textures are by far the largest contributor to game size in the modern era.

This of course assumes we continue to use textured polygons for rendering, which as of right now seems likely for the foreseeable future, but who knows in ten or fifteen years.

Yeah, but haven't costs been rising with the high tech graphics? Tools can minimize the increased financial effort, but can't reverse it. Costs in AAA from sd to hdtv have rising quite significantly despite the increasingly better tools.

But in your argument you have forgotten that the textures are designed by people that have to be paid, and the resolution improves so does the work slow down, as well as as much more textures are employed as much more people and/or time are needed to design those said textures. Tools can slow down the financial climb, but that's that.

I can't see costs diminuishing, as someone has to design every facet of the increasingly complicated game.

@brainling is correct. Textures are currently scaled down from their original quality. Since many textures are based on photographs you can have incredibly high quality base images for your textures. The top cameras these days can take photos at like 16k resolutions. Making a texture have more detail costs a bit more but not in a linear manner at all, especially considering that most textures are made in much higher resolutions than will ever be displayed in the game. The cost of a game doesn't directly rise along with scale. Plus the scale of an in game world doesn't correlate at all to its total size on the disc. Skyrim takes up far less space on a disc than Uncharted 2 or 3 do for example. Most games use a process called instancing to create their levels. What that means is you have a single asset, say a table, and every time you need that table to appear in the game you tell the game to find that table on the disc and then put it in the game world. The table only has to be on the disc a single time even if it is used 100's of times throughout the game. Skyrim and other open world games tend to use this technique to an extreme degree. If you look in Skyrim the number of unique textures is actually probably not as great as some linear games as in those games each level may contain an entirely unique set of objects. There are dozens of dungeons in Skyrim but only a handful of different graphical styles among them. Meanwhile, again to use Uncharted as an example, virtually every level in an Uncharted game uses almost entirely unique assets. Plus, Naughty Dog uses an interesting technique in which they store the same assets multiple times on the disc so that they are always close by when needed. That's how they manage to avoid lengthy installations and manage to stream in new content like they do. GTA5 actually streams content from both the hard drive and the disc at the same time which let's them get the assets into the RAM as quickly as possible. This, again, means that content is sometimes repeated on the disc.

Last point is that in the previous generation (meaning 360 and PS3) quite often the most space on the disc was actually reserved for cutscenes. Bink videos used in a large number of games take up a huge amount of space on the disc but are used because they allow you to stream in the next level in the background. In the last Castlevania game which took up two DVD's the entire game outside of the cutscenes fit easily onto a single DVD. But the cutscenes actually doubled the size of the game. With required installs and massive amounts of RAM this generation we won't have the same sort of bandwidth issues so I would hope Bink videos are used less.

#3 Posted by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

Forever is a long time. On current gen systems maybe not. But if you wanted a game made for 4K or 8K monitors then definitely. Almost all textures end up getting compressed before being pressed onto the disc. If you look at something like Rage, that game was over a terabyte uncompressed. At the time it wasn't feasible to release a version more than 25 GB, but they could have made a 100 GB version if they wanted. So long story short, yes, definitely. Maybe not anytime soon but eventually.

#4 Posted by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

I thought the same thing, but there are a couple things to keep in mind. First off Telltale has always worked on multiple games at once. In the past they've released as many as five games in a single year. Secondly Telltale has stated that they need to sell only 100,000 copies or so of their games to make a profit and The Walking Dead sold something like 8 million. Since they started that series they've come close to doubling their staff. So I don't think they have spread themselves to thin. I think the question is more about the quality of their new teams. Telltale is just a company and there are obviously at least three different teams working there. So is the Fables team as good as The Walking Dead team? And how are the teams of the two newly announced games? While I'm sure there is crossover among the teams, the designers and writers probably are only working on a single game at a time so the quality could vary from team to team.

The other factor is that Telltale has made well over a dozen games and while many of their earlier games were good, just as many were mediocre, and a couple were pretty bad. They are under a lot of pressure after The Walking Dead, but that game was far and away the best game they have ever made. Only time will tell if that was just a one time fluke or if it was a sign of things to come.

#5 Posted by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

I mean Angry Birds is pretty essential if you haven't played it elsewhere. Outside of that the Infinity Blade games are surprisingly deep and fun. I have spent more time with Tiny Wings than should be allowed. It's a great game to play on a bus or while waiting for a doctor or something. Super simple but super addictive. Kingdom Rush is great. Brad did a quick look of both of them if you want to check them out. Fruit Ninja and Jetpack Joyride from Halfbrick Studios are both fun. And there are a handful of good racing games out there as well if you don't mind dealing with tilt controls or are willing to shell out for an actual controller add-on.

#6 Edited by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

I think people have said everything I would mention. On the more unknown (and underrated) side:

  • Folklore
  • Singularity
  • Binary Domain
  • Enslaved

On the known but underrated side:

  • Resistance 3
  • Red Faction: Guerrilla
  • The Darkness 2
  • Bulletstorm
  • Prince of Persia 08

Just listing major console games. I'm sure people could list NIS/Atlus games for hours that deserved more attention than they got and there are a ton of indie games that deserve to be played by many more people.

#7 Posted by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

Do more side quests. Those trolls are nasty early on. Level yourself up through side quests before taking on the main quests. A couple tips -

  • Enemies in this game do not scale to your level. Some areas are just a lot harder than others. You will likely encounter enemies in this game that are too difficult for you to beat. Often your best bet is just to run and come back later. Enemies in dungeons don't respawn, so once you kill those ogres they are dead for good.
  • Speaking of dungeons, don't be afraid to do them in parts. Keep a portcrystal handy and lay it down outside of every dungeon you go in. Then when you have exhausted your resources in the dungeon teleport back to town, level up, restock, hire new pawns and teleport back. It sometimes took me two or three journeys to clear out a dungeon. Be patient.
  • There are I believe a half dozen notice boards in the game. Make sure to pick up every quest on every one other than the escort quests which you find on the boards at the inns in Gran Soren and your home town. The vast majority of these quests simply involve killing X number of enemies. Outside of the one for killing rabbits you are going to be killing these enemies anyways so just pick up the quests and you'll finish all of them as you go on. And with each success you get money and experience.
  • Pawns are key in this game. Using the right pawns in the right situations makes all the difference. In addition to their core abilities, make sure to choose a pawn familiar with the quest you are on. They'll have some symbol by their name I don't remember right now to let you know that. A pawn isn't going to know out of the gate how to defeat a troll. But if the pawn has completed the quest already then he or she will know that fact.
  • Another thing which isn't made super clear is that you have separate vocation levels in addition to your overall level. Each vocation has unique perks that you can buy when you hit a certain level in that vocation. Once you buy these perks you can use them even if you switch your vocation later. So I would suggest doing various side quests with different vocations to unlock their individual perks. For example, some of the stanima perks related to archery are super valuable for every class in the game, as is their perk for taking less damage when falling from high heights. Warrior perks often increase your health or lower the damage you take, while many mage perks will lower the damage you take from spells or certain elements. Mix and mach these abilities to improve the class you want. If you are playing a tank getting increased stanima and magic defense can mean the difference between life and death. You may have to play a class you don't enjoy as much but it is worth it.
  • Finally, let me mention that the specific quest you are on is the most difficult quest in the game I have yet faced. The trolls are nothing compared to the ridiculous battle ahead. If a troll can take you out in one hit you are not ready for this quest. You need to go do side quests for another 5 to 10 levels and you should spend many of those levels as other classes.
#8 Edited by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

@grillbar: doubt they had many more than 1 million consoles ready for launch in each territory. I know some stores in the US had a very limited number of PS4's in on Black Friday but the thing was sold out nation wide by the time the sun rose. These are pretty great launch numbers and it's even more important to note that there are well over 1 million people worldwide on the wait list to get a system.

#9 Posted by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

I'm going to third Uncharted 2 and 3. Really the key is a super linear game with a heavy emphasis on a well told story. So Uncharted is one of the best examples of that.

I guess the other question is how into games are the people watching? Like I enjoy watching people play games regardless of the game in question. A lot of more casual gamers might want to watch someone play a Puzzle game that they can help solve. Portal is pretty great for this since it has a lot of humorous elements as well. Then you have people who have no interest in being directly involved in playing the game at all. For those people things like Uncharted are key because they are similar to watching a movie. If you are trying to entertain I'd suggest having played the game through to completion first and then playing it on the easiest setting when non-gamers are watching. Getting stuck on either a puzzle or difficult battle means these people are going to have to watch you doing the same thing over and over. For men modern military shooters sometimes work well. My Dad really enjoyed watching me play the newest Medal of Honor. And I would assume the Black Ops games would go over well.

I also have a good friend who really enjoyed watching her boyfriend play games. Her favorites to watch were Assassin's Creed (those starring Ezio), Bioshock, and Red Dead Redemption. I don't know if I'd recommend open world games if you are a completionist because walking around a world collecting feathers or flowers or what have you can be even more boring to watch than it is to play.

Lastly I want to reiterate how important it is to play on the easiest setting. The people who are watching you aren't getting any enjoyment out of the challenge or the gameplay so watching you overcome some extremely difficult challenge is not going to be nearly as fun for them as it might be for you. And, again, if these people don't want to participate in solving puzzles then make sure you know the solutions going in. It's all a matter of knowing your audience and how involved they want to be. And of course personal tastes matter as well. A lot of teenage girls, for example, are going to have no interest in a modern military shooter. Some will, but knowing if your audience is into a certain subject is another key consideration. Think of movies they like and pick games with similar stories.

#10 Edited by Raven10 (1947 posts) -

@e30bmw: Glad to be of help. Always try to remind people that there are more places than Steam to buy games for PC and some of them have just as good if not better sales.