Renachan's forum posts

#1 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -
Interesting podcast overall, I very much enjoyed it thought I wish Michelle a whole lot more as we barely heard anything from her, and there was also parts where I felt you railroaded a bit Kessler. I really enjoyed hearing you talk about this overall, but at points it feels like you shouted the longest to end up on top of a debate. A few of you had this issue with that this podcast, yelling instead of actually debating to get your point across, and in general some disrespect for giving everyone a chance to talk. This is the first time I've listed to this podcast so I'm going to take y'all at your world it's normally more balanced. This is a very emotional topic, so I can understand how it would get people to react so much. I am looking forward to checking out other episodes. 
 
Now on to some of the good talk in the thread itself.  Bolding the part I'm dealing with of your post Kat, but not cutting as this was a bit upthread and I want to leave full context.
 
@KatyGaGa said:

@Matt: I have seen all the endings and videos pertaining to the outrage against the ending. At this point, I believe we have reached an impasse. I respectfully and completely disagree with what you're saying. In my past posts I've explained how this ending, abstract as it may be, still is as satisfying an ending for the trilogy as I could have hoped for, to a certain extent. It ends Shepard's story in a few different, interesting ways and it allowed me to say goodbye to all the characters I had come to care deeply about. For me, it respects the idea of The Reapers enough not to just piss away the mystery of what has been set up. If The Reapers were killed or controlled or not killed at all, all these particular avenues still allowed for a satisfying, moving and thought provoking ending. Yes, the series has been about choices but it has also been an amazing, arguably one of the best science-fiction narratives in a while and I'm happy to have made my own choices in this story but in the end it is still a story being told by someone else and I can respect that... and I have even come to agree with that. Art is not about the receiver, ultimately it is ALWAYS about the creator. There will always be a massive disconnect between the author and the reader, thats just the way subjective reality is constructed. You may have issues with that but that is ART and you may have legitimate issues by saying then art is hugely flawed and I would agree with that but it is still ART. Art is about the transmission of one's inner most essence to another. When you start caring about who is receiving it, it becomes a business... which isn't a bad thing... its just not as pure an art as it should be then. its still art, just not very good and rather spineless.

If any part of the ending disappointed me its that it wasn't weird enough. And, the fact that people are now using the whole "take the ending at face value" argument with the hopes of disproving the indoctrination theory is just silly. THAT'S exactly what people are doing with the indoctrination ending... we're taking the images that have been presented to us, the context and background at face value and the indoctrination theory is as simple and logical a conclusion that we can come up with. This isn't like seeing Jesus in a pile of hay. This is about certain things that are presented to us that logically lead to something resembling an indoctrination. Again, I am open to being proved wrong but what I analyze from the images and sounds that are presented to me "at face value" logically leads me to an indoctrination theory. I don't understand the weird outrage against this theory. The podcast got heated in a manner like as if Ron had just admitted to being a racist homophobe who kicks puppies in his spare time. Comparing it to the arguments of a "born again Christian" or whatever was said in the podcast is just ridiculous.

 
I take a huge amount of issue with this statement, I feel it misses a great deal of any message to just focus on the transmitter and also to make any absolute statement, especially when it comes to a topic like art, seems very narrow. Art is the creator trying to express a message, to share something with the receiver.  Artist intent is very important with art, but one cannot totally ignore viewer interpretation. To only focus on the sender's intent and ignore the message and the receiver's translation of the message is to look at a only a slice.  Once you have put art out there, once it is no longer inside your head but actually out there people will view it and they will come to it from their own personal place in the world. Where they are in their beliefs, and their past experiences, all the things that makes them them and different from the artist can come into play when they are interacting with the art. They can pull something the artist did not intend out of the art, but that is totally supported by the text. And this is a totally valid thing. The artist's voice is important, but it does not exist in a void. 
 
And with interactive art, with anything that blurs the line between creator and passive receiver, I would say the viewer becomes more important. Because you are not a passive viewer at that point, you become an active participant even if it's in a limited function. This is no longer a movie you are watching, a picture you are viewing. Bioware is engaging you throughout the Mass Effect series to help it create how the fiction goes. My tale of the Shepard is not yours, nor should it be as this interaction is part of the heart of what makes video games different from other mediums. So for Bioware the storyteller to demote the player to a more passive audience position in those final moments, to either have Shepard act in a manner that is out of character in how passive Shepard is with accepting what the Star Child says, or to leave us with a unfinished ending with the Indoctrination theory where I feel I was still not given the end of Shepard's story. Even if Shepard is not directly involved in that killing blow of defeating the Reapers, to have the story go nowhere but Shepard taking a single breath after being indoctrination if the Indoctrination theory is true is for Bioware to leave off reading the final pages of Shepard's final chapter. They are cutting off not just before the epilogue, but in the middle of the falling action.
#2 Edited by Renachan (137 posts) -

I at least want to try a ManShep playthrough,  PS3  owner here so I only am starting from that point but I do have all DLC so far that I can. Currently doing a mini replay in that whoops forgot to enter my code for From Ashes, so starting over my main Shepard in 3 and about up to the first Citadel visit.

#3 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -
@LovesJapanManga said:

Quick question: I know that Red Ending represents Earth being destroyed, right? So, that means the Blue Ending represents organics and synthesis being controlled (Am I wrong on that one???) Lastly, also - Green Ending represents what? I just finished the game and I got "Green" Ending...

Not quite. Red has you destroy all synthetics, blue has you control the reapers, and green has you mix synthetic and organics on a dna level some how. nope, noooothing creepy about poking around people's DNA without their okay... 
 
Earth being destroyed or not ties more into how high your EMS is, regardless of which of the three endings you choose. Mind there is the question of if what we were told in the Arial still holds true, and the destruction of a mass relay obliterates the system it's in.
#4 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -

Your Effective Military Strength must have been too low, if it's below 1750 then destroy is the only choice you have. Make sure to look at your EMS, instead of your Total Military Strength as your TMS is half'd if you don't play multiplayer.

#5 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -
@JasonR86 said:

@Renachan:

I see you have 84 posts so you are fairly new to this community. Trust me, there has been bitching. I understand bitching, I bitch a lot about a number of topics. But I don't expect that my bitching will lead to any sort of real change.

You would be wrong in this assumption :) I don't post much on the forums, but I've been on Giant Bomb since a few months after their launch. Post counts are not the best guess when you don't have a join date to go with them, for me personally I've just been more active other places then these forums, and mostly enjoying Giant Bomb for the content the staff provide.
 
We might be having an issue here of what we refer to as bitching. I use bitching to refer to a purely negative thing, with no value to it. Ill thought words with no purpose to them and not much thought. And I think that criticism and discussion about the ending is not that. I do not think that Bioware will change the ending because of it, but it has value in both the discussion players can have between themselves, the lessons Bioware can learn in the future from the feedback they receive from places like the official forums, and overall what gaming can learn from this. 
 
I see bitching, it implies that the person bitching needs to shut up. But I think in looking at the forums it... gets used interchangeably with talking about a topic? Complaining about it, regardless of it's a good or bad complaint? Honestly a bit confused here so this may be language confusion going on.
#6 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -
@eroticfishcake:  See, I kept Kaidan because of Ash being space racist, but I got really really sick of him in 2 and most of 3. I was playing a FemShep and the total jerk he is on Horizon- apparently your history means nothing, even if you have someone like Garrus there backing you up? No he's going to be a jerk. And then his continued thinking of me being a Cerberus spy at the start of 3 made me wish there was an option to punch him so bad, and this FemShep is mostly a paragon :/ 
 
Also on one hand while at first I wish I had not romanced Liara in 1 and just stuck with Garrus throughout, I ended up actually liking how things went from the RP point of view. Liara was who knows where, then I start getting friendly with old bud Garrus, and whoops things a bit awkward when she pops back up. Then in 3 I break things off with her, but there's a lot of feelings of old history going on there. Also I liked playing a Shepard who made mistakes, thus why she left the Reaper base with TIM.
#7 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -
@JasonR86 said:

@Renachan:

I understand offering feedback. But 'most' people aren't offering feedback. They are bitching. Bitching does not equate to feedback. Bitching is not constructive criticism. Bitching is not helpful. Bitching is just worthless, meaningless noise.

In that case I would say you need to be exploring more then, because there are a great number of people who are giving smart feedback- on the Bioware forums, there is now a Suggested Changes Feedback thread. Which I personally don't have much faith in them changing things at this time, but people are at least overall being coherent, logical, and thought out with their feedback on those forums. Here I have seen those who have expressed displeasure mostly verbalize why they don't like it. 
 
While I have seen poorly worded criticism, I haven't seen bitching. I am sure it is out there but right now it is a mythical creature to me. I have seen people trying to word their points, despite the amount of press and the fellow gaming community who calls what is going on bitching or whining or them being entitled.
#8 Edited by Renachan (137 posts) -
@CaptainCharisma said:

@JasonR86 said:

YOU CALM DOWN!!!

I was mostly over-reacting out of...well, I don't know. My reaction wasn't too serious though. However, what I said I still believe. This doesn't just refer to the Bioware forums. You could say the same things for the 20-30 threads on here that have focused on the apparent shitty ending. These people don't know what they want. They were hoping that the ending would make them feel a certain way that the ME 3 ending could never deliver.

As for Bioware fans, I can't speak to personal experience because I'm not a part of their forums. But, from what I've heard and by the shit Bioware has received since...well, in part since the first Mass Effect, Bioware fans appear fucking crazy. I'm not just talking about the Bioware forums when I say this. I'm mostly referring to the fans that continue to buy Bioware games despite the fact that apparently they hate those games. They are fucking crazy.

Sorry you feel that way. But everything in the world has its super fans and I just don't lump every fan of a franchise all together. Not my place to tell you otherwise though. So carry on :)

That would be fine if those who were the people who were complaining, but most- ignoring this person who went to the ftc- are fans who honestly want to give feedback, and feel they were lied to with the ending. Most loved the rest of the game, but the issues they have with the ending throw the rest of the series off for them. 
 
And regardless of if you think the ending was bad or not (And to be clear I'm not talking to you really Captan, but the thread in general) it makes me... nervous that the knee jerk reaction to people complaining is we call them entitled idiots? There is being an entitled idiots, but I think what most people commenting on the ending to bioware are trying to be is responsible consumers. And the day we try to chase people out of video games for being smart with their money will be a very sad day, as it let's company's continue bad business practices. 
 
The ending had plotholes and character inconsistencies , which I'll get to in a moment, and while I'm not expecting Bioware to change things they did hurt their good will for me for that, but more their reaction to fans. Bethesda has severally hurt their goodwill for me with how they are allowed to ship broken games, how things like the save issues on the PS3 were allowed to happen when they will knew that was going to be an issue, and we give them a free pass with that as well as many of the game breaking bugs they ship with. 
 
No, I am not saying boycott companies. That helps very little in the long run. I am saying we should be responsible consumers and give feedback in a rational matter when issues come up, not just idly sit by. And most of all we shouldn't ridicule people for giving that feedback, even if you disagree. Respond when someone is being irrational but don't resort to name calling and stereotyping to all criticism. 
 
  @The_Laughing_Man said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@SefaRed said:

I think bascially this whole thing is saying to developers: "Don't take risks with your stories. We want them nice and predictable. We want Shepherd to get married to Liara, have lots of little blue babies and live happily ever after. Anything other than that scares us".

"Taking a risk"? Dude, you need to actually see the ending for yourself before assuming what it consists of.

Ive seen it and thinks it is fine. Not super. But fine. The "True" Ending was my fav one but they all do seem to be very generic and take no account into your past dealings.   Can someone who was outraged by the ending tell me why it made them mad? Was it because you invested so much into the game and it was more or less "One of these three endings" And was not unique in any way at all? 
Not personally outraged, but I can point out the main points being brought up by the majority of people who comment on the ending. 
 
  1. It seems very out of character for Shepard, any Shepard, to blindly accept the words of the Catalyst. This character tells us it controls the reapers, has routinely been wiping out advance civilizations every 50,000 years- inciting wars in those civilizations too, with the Reaper control of both the Rachni and the Geth - and we are to take this AI as trusted source? This seems baffling with how Shepards in general are questioners. They don't blindly accept choices from others, thus it feels like you are no longer playing Shepard at this point
  2. The Catalyst's argument  that synthetic life is destined to always destroy organic rings false for many players, those who united the Geth and Quarians have that example to point to and the Prothean empire had already dealt with most if not all synthetics by the time they were attacked by the Reapers. Even those who do not reunite the two species at least learn the history of the Geht-Quarian war from Legion and in see that it was the Quarians who started the war, the Geth were mainly interested in defending themselves. That Shepard can not bring up these points feels very bizarre.
  3. Joker and The Normandy leaving is handled very poorly. Squad mates somehow make it back to the Normandy, and Joker apparently flees the battle as he was already in a jump when the destruction of the relays happened- in other words, before anything was happening to the relays. It is extremely out of character for the Normandy to abandon you, as t hese are mostly people who went on a suicide mission with you, so it leaves the player very confused why they left. 
  4. If the Citadel is part of the AI that is controlling the Reapers, then this calls the plot of Mass Effect 1 into question. Why is any external input needed to activate the Citadel Relay, when the Citadel is where the Reapers are being controlled from?
  5. From the Arival DLC, which they do make point to reference in game, we now know destroying a Mass Relay destroys the system it's in. Either most of the species lost their home world, including the gigantic loss of life with the Sol system destroyed and all those troops you gathered, or they are handwaving this away. One answer is potentially the most depressing part about the ending to me, the other is a rather noticeable plothole.
  6. The laziness of the ending, with the three choices being just a color swap and a few very minor scene differences. Thus why some of us call it ending and not endings.
  7. The War Assets tying to your ending after a certain point, with how abstract a concept they feel in the story. How does having a great deal of assets unlock the Synthesis ending? With the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2, the shop upgrades made sense and you could see why they affected the final mission. This is not the case here.
 
There are other reasons brought up by various people, some wanting more hints of how things went with your choices like helping the Geth or the Rachni, protests of number of deus ex machinas used in the game, some other things I'm sure I'm leaving out. But this covers some of the big points at least brought up. 
 
For me, the biggest thing is the interaction with the Catalyst AI. I would even be willing to accept these three choices offered, if I honestly thought they were the only choice. However I didn't as I was very distrustful of the AI, and it felt as though player agency was stolen from me with how I'm not really allowed to interact with the AI, but instead I must blindly accept what it tells me. I think that is a big reason people are saying the ending ruins what came before it, in combination with the mass relays being destroyed. For those last five minutes I am playing another Shepard. Add to that that any choice I made before seems of little matter, such as the galactic peace I brokered has little point now, as there will be little or no inter-cluster relations for a long while with the relays destroyed. Curing the genophage has no point with Tuchanka destroyed. Regardless of the choice I end up making, I kill a great deal of the galaxy with that choice thanks to the destruction of the relays. 
 
If I felt I am making a sacrifice that is fine, that is what I came into this game expecting. If I'm being an idiot committing mass xenocide without thinking things through, then honestly I prefer the ending where I sat there shooting at the Catalyst AI until I got a game over from the Citadel being destroyed.  Still love most of the game, am actually replaying now and plan on doing several replays in the future. I just also plan to either ignore the ending exist, or pretend the AI did convince me these were my choices.
#9 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -

I went through a period where I wasn't sure I'd ever want to touch any Mass Effect game after that ending :/ But thankfully over that now, and replaying 3 so I can actually do From Ashes DLC- forgot to pop it in the first time, and now I guess I have a save for the future if I want where I choose control. Because at that point I was saying f you to the choices :) 
 
Also wanting to replay from 2 (on ps3 so my starting point) and try both other classes and some options. I ended up with a mostly paragon FemShep that went more renegade in 3 but still ended up like 70% paragon. Want one with a different mix, and who knows maybe I'll get myself to try ManShep. Just very hard with how very much Shepard has Jennifer Hale's voice for me, but I really do want to try him out so that might be my next series playthrough.

#10 Posted by Renachan (137 posts) -

Rena-chan, and I think I just used it for game lists- which I do now with GB. Looking at the icon I'm gonna guess the last time I was on was around when Ace Attorney 4 came out. I was not 100% sure I had one until I logged in just now XD 
 
Hmmm, planning to poke around now. If nothing else all of this has got me to check out other gaming sites for somethings besides news.