@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

MMOs, the largest market yet.

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

 Why do we still pay to be able to play on Xbox live

 and why do people defend it so vigorously?

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

It's true, paying for it sucks ass; always has and always will. But it doesn't make me like Microsoft and the 360 alone any less 'cause with what I can do, it's fun enough. I just hate when it comes time to renew. The only argument that anyone can make is the fact that Microsoft wants money, and they need that money to do the things they're doing, even if you say "Why don't they just do what Sony does?", I'm sure Microsoft has a reason whether it be a good or bad reason. Maybe everyone should just stop using Live and then Microsoft will come to their senses huh? I don't know if you knew this, but as much as you'd like to think everyone's looking out for others needs more than their own, well you'd be wrong. These companies are greedy. This is a question to go on  Pach-Attack!.

The simple fact of the matter is that many a person who's used both services will tell you that Xbox Live is a higher quality service than PSN. The only logical explanation for this is that MS invests the money they get from subscriptions into the system.

And just to be clear here, I am talking about quality. Just like some people don't mind paying more for better quality shoes, there are those who don't mind paying for a better quality online service.

Also, it's an undeniable fact that Sony did get hacked, and Xbox Live has (as of yet) never been hacked. Saying that it could probably/maybe/possibly happen to MS too is a bad counter-argument. Now if someone actually manages to hack Xbox Live, and bring it to its knees like has been done to PSN, then that argument holds water. Until then it's as stupid as saying "well my ISP that goes down five times a week is just as good as the one that's never been down because.. hey.. the could, maybe, one day go down too!"

I can't say this due to the subscription fee on Xbox or not but my experiences with the service on PS3 and Xbox360 have been a lot different, some small and some large. Call me nit picking but the idea that we have to usually wait a good amount more time to download games off of PSN then once their downloaded then have to wait another few minutes to install them to the console once they've already been downloaded is annoying. With Xbox I find what I need hit download and the service does the rest, all i have to do after that is wait for it to tell me that it's done. On the PSN not every game has a demo, and even if they do have demo's are often located in completely different areas in the PSN store. On Xbox every game with the exception the Digital downloads (and those might have demos not too sure) has a demo associated with it and as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't think you can just unlock the ability to buy a game from within the demo with the PSN.
 
Cross game chat might not mean a lot to people but it makes it a lot easier to get games going with friends, to me it's the difference between meeting up at a friends house and going to the movies with friends and everyone just planning on arriving at the theater at the same time. One has a higher success rate of making sure everyone gets there on time and can get seats together. My online experience with Playstation 3 is very limited so some of this may be out of ignorance on my part but I find it insanely easier to get into a game with friends as well. I see a friend playing a game I highlight their name, go to join game and I'm in, something I'm not sure is available on the ps3. Even with Playstation Plus there are certain games that are offered for free on the service yet once you stop being a member you lose those rights. Hate on gold as much as you want but if I go from gold to silver all I lose is the ability to play online and although the game was free you still had to pay for the service so I don't find it to be terribly different. Simple things like loading your achievements/trophies take a lot longer on the PS3, Updates also seem to take longer as do loading of the game....I could literally have started a match and have got a few hits in on Marvel vs Capcom 3 on the xbox before the ps3 has finished loading the content into the game and gone through the startup sequence. Updates are mandatory across games where as they are technically optional on xbox although you give up your ability to go online while playing said games. PS3 updates are way too frequent and sometimes become a burden where you really only see maybe 2 a year on the xbox.
 
I enjoy both systems but for me Xbox live is well worth my money and until I feel i'm not getting my money's worth I doubt i'll stop being a gold subscriber it doesn't make me stupid for paying it just makes me a satisfied customer.

I don't really care. I usually get years of xbox live for less than $30 and have never, ever in the 6 or so years i've subscribed paid full price. I like the Xbox online experience enough to not want to switch, and I have no friends on PSN and no desire to use it. Steam is awesome too though.

It's just like anything, if you choose to pay full price you spend more. If you look for deals you can find them. I bet you're the kind of guy who goes and pre-orders his new releases for $60 at gamestop too, instead of looking for deals and spending $30-$40 like a smart person. Oh well.

I agree with EpicSteve its infrastructure is the best.

The reason they don't and can't charge for multiplayer on PC is not because of multiplayer, it's because the PC already does all of the other non-multiplayer related gold features like netflix, hulu, ESPN, friends lists, video/voice chat, etc. And because they simply don't have the means to control modding/cheating that they do on their own console. That's just the nature of the device.

Or it's LOLZ GREEDY MICRO$OFT LOLZ

I rarely play online that often, but I find that paying something like $5 a month more than makes up for itself with the constant deals on dlc and XBLA games that are available for gold members only. To me, Xbox Live is used the same as Playstation + is: which is to get deals on content.

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

MMOs, the largest market yet.

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

MMOs, the largest market yet.

Yeah, and they take ridiculous amounts of time and effort. I will give WoW props for keeping it simple so everyone's computer can run it nowadays though.

WoW is a fucking drop in the ocean compared all of the K-MMOs in the wild.

Why wouldn't I pay for it when clearly that money goes into the service, and it shows because anyone who has used both can tell that Live is the better quality service.

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

MMOs, the largest market yet.

Yeah, and they take ridiculous amounts of time and effort. I will give WoW props for keeping it simple so everyone's computer can run it nowadays though.

WoW is a fucking drop in the ocean compared all of the K-MMOs in the wild.

@rebgav said:

To date, Xbox Live has provided me with consistent high-quality services while continuing to roll out new features. I have no problem with paying for that. Given the success of Xbox Live subs the real question is why other platforms don't charge for their services.

This.

@rebgav said:

@ZeForgotten said:

@rebgav said:

@c0l0nelp0c0rn1 said:

Why do you think they haven't released Halo 3-Reach on PC yet? Because they haven't figured out how to charge for P2P multiplayer on the PC yet.

Sure they have, It's called Windows Live.

That doesn't charge for online at all though.

And they shouldn't because it's awful. But they could, if they wanted to make Gears or Halo X for the pc.

They tried it at first and it did actually have the Silver and Gold bullshit then they got a ton of complaints about how pathetic it was on the PC and they removed it. Then again, it's Microsoft so they would probably do it again and go "What are you talking about? We never heard any complaints, we just wanted to make it better!" or some bullshit like that

@ZeForgotten said:

@rebgav said:

@c0l0nelp0c0rn1 said:

Why do you think they haven't released Halo 3-Reach on PC yet? Because they haven't figured out how to charge for P2P multiplayer on the PC yet.

Sure they have, It's called Windows Live.

That doesn't charge for online at all though.

And they shouldn't because it's awful. But they could, if they wanted to make Gears or Halo X for the pc.

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

MMOs, the largest market yet.

Yeah, and they take ridiculous amounts of time and effort. I will give WoW props for keeping it simple so everyone's computer can run it nowadays though.

WoW is a fucking drop in the ocean compared all of the K-MMOs in the wild.

@MysteriousBob: Fighting games exist on PC and many people would argue with you in that regards. We were playing Street Fighter Third Strike and other games with GGPO years before a console even got just a fighter online...

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

MMOs, the largest market yet.

Yeah, and they take ridiculous amounts of time and effort. I will give WoW props for keeping it simple so everyone's computer can run it nowadays though.

WoW is a fucking drop in the ocean compared all of the K-MMOs in the wild.

I'd rather take sandpaper to my eyeballs than play any MMOs. The PC can have its crappy exclusive genres, I've got fighting games to play.

Paying sucks and they raise the price because they can (and don't think for a moment that other wouldn't do the same) but people pay that because Xbox Live does what it's needs to do and it does it well unlike the other consoles.

@MysteriousBob: Fighting games exist on PC and many people would argue with you in that regards. We were playing Street Fighter Third Strike and other games with GGPO years before a console even got just a fighter online...

@MideonNViscera: What do we care, we were playing it. Even then we still had lag free times compared to some of the stuff on any console. Better than the new SF3S HD coming out? Don't know, but I'll take a ROM of an arcade game that plays online exceptionally well to a fighting game on a console that has spotty online.

@MysteriousBob said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MideonNViscera said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Yes, but most of us don't wanna play on PC.

MMOs, the largest market yet.

Yeah, and they take ridiculous amounts of time and effort. I will give WoW props for keeping it simple so everyone's computer can run it nowadays though.

WoW is a fucking drop in the ocean compared all of the K-MMOs in the wild.

I'd rather take sandpaper to my eyeballs than play any MMOs. The PC can have its crappy exclusive genres, I've got fighting games to play.

Ya know, I got to 48 in Everquest when 50 was the cap, I got to 60 in WoW when that was the cap, and I played DAoC and EQ2 both a fair bit. They were all exactly the same, for all intents and purposes. I absolutely cannot imagine an MMO that would persuade me to not only buy it, but buy a computer to run it, and then pay monthly to play it. If there's a genre in existence that truly needs a redefinition, it is the MMO. Until then, I'll stick to fighting games with you haha

Why wouldn't I pay for it when clearly that money goes into the service, and it shows because anyone who has used both can tell that Live is the better quality service.

Microsoft has the best online infrastructure. PSN is clunky, doesn't work as well as it should, and is impossible to navigate.

@CL60 said:

Why wouldn't I pay for it when clearly that money goes into the service, and it shows because anyone who has used both can tell that Live is the better quality service.

So basically you choose to ignore reality and have an opinion based what you choose not to see which everyone else, including the media (HALO KID/CHOCOLATE MILK) recognises as reality. Saying something is your own experience is fine and dandy but arguing against reality because you choose to ignore reality and calling that your own experience as if it's some evidence that your point of view holds any merit really isn't ok. It's not even crazy. It's just plain old blinkered bullshit. Bullshit yourself all you want but don't expect other people to agree with you.

People are young and stupid. That's the crowd you are generally talking to. Yeah there are probably old stupid people too but nowhere near as many, they have bills to pay and often make informed choices when paying for entertainment and gaming services.

They are happy to conform because 'they can understand why companies are charging the subscription rate'. Companies only get away with hiking up the prices and charging for use-to-be free services because people do not stand up to them. The biggest example of this is the MW2 'boycott': Tonnes of people said they wouldn't buy it but as soon as it's released they pay full prices for it and maybe even another subscription to live. The majority of people are like a extremely obese fat guy. He might die if he eats another piece of cake and decides to diet and get healthy but as soon as a new, delicious™ cake is revealed to the public he is first in line at the store ready to buy it no matter the risk.

it costs barely anything and i like the service, i use it to watch sky player on my tv, for me thats great because otherwise i would have to watch it on a laptop screen and it doesnt always work well because my processor is slow.  how come i gotta pay rates even though i own my house?

@MideonNViscera said:

Keep in mind also that a PS3 has always cost more than an X-Box with a year (at first 2 or 3 years) of XBL.

Yeah, but then for most of this gen the Xbox was kind of incomplete out of the box. The PS3 has always come with an HDD, Wifi (except the launch 20 GB), Rechargeable wireless controllers, free online and Blu-Ray. You don't NEED any of those things (except the HDD), but for most people the PS3 was a better deal on a feature-level.

We've been having this same, stupid discussion since Xbox Live was released on the orignal Xbox. Why do you pay for it? Because a public company wants to keep their shareholders happy and that $60 goes towards the maintenance and R&D of the service. There's alternatives to Xbox Live + the media/entertainment services, you're not stuck paying for it.

Oh hey...Look, its this argument....Again....

This thread is the worst.

Most of the points I wanted to talk about have already been addressed, but I do want to say something about the word "charity" being used to describe how users are justifying Xbox Live Gold. Charity is the use of your own resources to help others. I am subscribed to Xbox Live because I want the benefits of the service. Just because we don't always know what exact maintenance or new feature Microsoft is planning doesn't make your subscription a "cash donation."

I'm so sick of the selective whining about big corporate bullies stomping down on the blue collar gamers and how we shouldn't take it anymore. Rockstar can charge for an online pass giving discounts to DLC of which we have no idea what the quality will be, and nobody complains (in fact I'll probably get on that before the deal runs out this week). Then Activision charges for a subscription that isn't even needed to play the game online, and that's the straw that breaks the camel's back? I'm personally not interested in Elite but I'm not bashing it, because if people find value in that sort of thing, it really isn't my business. Stop crying about slippery slopes or how people spend their money.

Yo you guys should play on the PC, dawg. Steam is awesome.

@blacklabeldomm: When did I ever say anything about wanting cloud saving? I don't take my profile to other people's house anyway so that doesn't matter to me. The only reason that I ever used it on PS3 was when I got a Ps3 Slim for the living room and even then I could have used a usb stick for that...well not all saves (certain games are locked from copying just like on 360) so cloud saves will be nice for everyone because of that stuff.

To date, Xbox Live has provided me with consistent high-quality services while continuing to roll out new features. I have no problem with paying for that. Given the success of Xbox Live subs the real question is why other platforms don't charge for their services.

You're paying because they can get you to pay.  That's it. That's all. AND IT FUCKING WORKED. How many millions of XBL members are there? Anyone know? 
 
If a corporation can get you to pay for something, why wouldn't they? Personally, I don't mind paying for a service I like. If you don't like that service, then stop paying. It truly is that simple. You don't have to "defend" the company. I'm not. If someone is asking why you pay for it, they're idiots. I'm not a fucking fanboy... I pay to play the games I want to play. Also, the argument about having Netflix and Hulu or whatever on other devices is stupid. The Xbox/PS3 is hooked up to the TV, where I want to watch the majority of my movies/shows. And you need PS+ to play Hulu+ through PSN, so where's your gripe?  I own both a PS3 and an XBOX, I pay for both XBL and PS+. I feel that I get what I pay for. Well, less so on PSN, but that's a whole other post.  
 
TL;DR version: If you don't like it, stop paying.

@haggis said:

@nintendoeats said:

@MideonNViscera said:

Keep in mind also that a PS3 has always cost more than an X-Box with a year (at first 2 or 3 years) of XBL.

Yeah, but then for most of this gen the Xbox was kind of incomplete out of the box. The PS3 has always come with an HDD, Wifi (except the launch 20 GB), Rechargeable wireless controllers, free online and Blu-Ray. You don't NEED any of those things (except the HDD), but for most people the PS3 was a better deal on a feature-level.

If that were true, it would have sold better than the 360, right? I think the relative parity of sales vindicates the choices both companies made. I don't think there is a consensus regarding paying for online services, nor was there much of a consensus on Blu-ray during the early days of the PS3. People will make (and did make) a variety of decisions about the consoles after weighing what features mattered most to them. Whether one or the other was a better deal came down to preferences: launch titles; exclusives; online services; storage; media playback. Depending on needs, people chose one or the other. It still strikes me as a bit crazy that we're still debating over which console is better five years after they're out.

Hey, we are just talking about features here, nothing else. All I'm saying is that if you wanted a 360 with all of the features of a stock PS3 in 2007, you were going to be paying more than if you had just gotten a PS3. There was other stuff that made the 360 more successful (earlier launch, better games, and lower barrier-to-entry for developers just to name a few).

I will happily pay for a better online experience than what I get on PSN, ads won't change that

@VinceNotVance said:

Yo you guys should play on the PC, dawg. Steam is awesome.

Damn right. This is why they have no leg to stand on when agreeing that the cost is worth it. Steam does the exact same thing for free. They have hosted servers, community, everything.

Saying what I said in the other post. In comparison to Sony, Microsoft is much better (or it at least looks like that, they might get hacked. who knows.) in terms of security. You could say that I'm paying for security but then you are just fooling yourself because there are thousands of companies that offer good security of their websites and services for free.

@SirPsychoSexy Then you are an idiot. Having ads on a service you pay for is absurd, It is backwards! Advertisements are meant for customers that do not pay as an incentive to upgrade your account, advertisements bring in so much money for Microsoft and then on top of that you are paying for it! Haha! Pretty much every website in existence uses this as a way to get people to pay for a premium service: take giant bomb for example. They offer a lot of things in their premium/supporting user subscription and the removal of ads is one of them.