scarycrayons's forum posts

#1 Posted by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

I hadn't heard of this dog incident before... is there a news article about it anywhere?

It's shocking if it's true, but at the same time, all I've seen so far is that 'anonymous comment on 4chan' screenshot, which... well, you know what 4chan humour tends to be like.

#2 Edited by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

Let people create what they want to create, and let people buy what they want to buy.

Saying that people shouldn't create something in fiction that they want to create is silly. Saying that people shouldn't buy something that they enjoy is doubly as pointless.

I play pretty much all games regardless, so it doesn't bother me too much, but I know that I definitely prefer games with more stylish and attractive characters. I'd definitely take a new Space Channel 5 over a new Rock Band, but that doesn't mean that Rock Band is sexist for not catering to my preferences as a woman.

This whole debate seems to revolve around people trying to get what they want by calling anything different as 'problematic.' As people have already said, if there's such a demand for unattractive plain characters, and you're aspiring to make games, then make a game for that audience! That's why games like Harvest Moon are still popular after all these years. Sitting around trying to force other people to match your own tastes doesn't help anybody.

#3 Edited by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

@brodehouse said:

@scrawnto: I didn't criticize Twitch or their right to do anything. I'm criticizing certain elements of the reaction.

I agree it is a brand issue, because it's certainly not like Twitch earns less money from sexual or flirtatious streamers as opposed to more conservatively dressed people. They just don't want it. Adult entertainment is a little far gone; they already had rules against nudity or pornographic content and I don't remember any controversy over it being applied.

For real, though, it's how this actually gets applied that's going to be controversial. Inevitably a time will come when they close some person's account because they deemed them to be too promiscuously dressed, and the line won't be as simple and easily drawn as habitual rulemakers might believe.

Yeah, I can definitely see some impending drama on, let's say, if a cosplayer started streaming.

There are already streams where the streamers dress up as the characters of the games they play (Video Games Awesome being the more recognised one) where they dress up as, say, Phoenix Wright and Maya for the Phoenix Wright games.

I did a quick search for Video Games Awesome outfits, and saw this one for their Saints Row streams. I can easily see people reporting for their outfits, even though they're not exactly revealing, and are clearly played for comedy value, because they fall under 'inappropriate / sexual clothing./ lingerie'. I don't really see it as something worth banning them from streaming for.

#4 Posted by scarycrayons (312 posts) -
@boboblaw said:

Also ran into one of these streams one time and the girl was getting up and wiggling/showing her ass of after every donation.

Hah, I saw that too, and now I'm wondering if it was the same streamer, or there are several people doing this in various ways.

The one I saw had a world map on the wall behind them, and every time someone donated, they'd put a pin on the world map to show where the donator was from. Nothing wrong there! Except the world map was waist high and the lady made sure to show off and wiggle her butt as much as possible while bending over to place the pin.

Needless to say, there were frequent donators, and not for the game content or quality of commentary that she was streaming.

#5 Posted by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

@scarycrayons said:

It's fairly common knowledge at this point that she openly identified as a misandrist, with an article written about just how much she hates males.

If a male game developer openly identified as a misogynist, and had written an article about just how much he hated females, would you still be saying the same thing about wishing people would stand up for them?

I really do mean this as a sincere question, I'm not trying to start an argument here. I'm just curious to whether you believe it would still be okay if that was the situation.

This is a lie about Samantha I want to put to bed - and I won't discuss it further. She does not hate men. I talked to her about this on freaking Monday. I would thank you to not repeat it. I'd also suggest, she deserves more than a little compassion - given the horrible way she was treated by a mob of gamers.

They went through everything she'd ever written and they found something to use against her. A person is more complex than a paragraph.

If you respect me at all, I'm asking you to trust that my friend Samantha is a better person than that.

I can't help but feel that trusting that somebody isn't sexist and hostile towards other genders after writing an article about how they're proud of their misandry, is like trusting that somebody doesn't want to kill somebody after sending a death threat with their address posted. In both cases, it should be taken seriously.

It's easy to say that people are deeper than the words they write, but they should still be accountable to those words.

It's fine that you won't discuss it further, but I don't think that it should be removed from scrutiny because she's your friend. This is what the whole debacle is partially about, people standing up for things that they otherwise wouldn't because they came from a friend in the industry.

I know you personally won't respond to the initial question, so I'll pose it for others here to contemplate. If any games writer or editor wrote an article tomorrow about how they are a misogynist and why they hate women, should it (and the author) be defended and respected because it came from a person you previously liked?

#6 Posted by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

It's fairly common knowledge at this point that she openly identified as a misandrist, with an article written about just how much she hates males.

If a male game developer openly identified as a misogynist, and had written an article about just how much he hated females, would you still be saying the same thing about wishing people would stand up for them?

I really do mean this as a sincere question, I'm not trying to start an argument here. I'm just curious to whether you believe it would still be okay if that was the situation.

#7 Posted by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

@annora said:
@scarycrayons said:

Girl here, normally I wouldn't mention such things, but there have been a lot of accusations banded around on how the Giant Bomb community consists of "all men trying to speak on behalf of women."

I think it's disrespectful to associate an awful minority inside a userbase as a whole. I can't get behind statements like 'Most death threats come from Giant Bomb users' because I have seen absolutely no evidence of this. I can't get behind passive-aggressive claims that 'men get erections from Lara being murdered in Tomb Raider' because that just seems absurd. I certainly can't get behind the idea that frequently being labelled as a 'white male misogynist who loves sending death threats' is somehow productive and a good step forward for the industry.

I think it's fair to say that everyone that I've personally seen who are into games, both on the developer and consumer side of things, is absolutely against the angry and awful people online. It's easy to see why people become defensive when so many websites and a few vocally prominent game developers paint its readers/fans as something they are completely against.

You're over-simplfying Brianna's arguments in this thread and putting words in the mouths of critics that they never said. I have never seen anyone claim that men get erections from Lara Croft being murdered. You're being facetious here and presenting arguments no one has made.

"The death scenes in Tomb Raider give me an erection, but that doesn’t make me a misogynist. #gamergate" is a direct quote from a certain developer pretending to be a gamergate supporter in order to discredit what they were trying to support.

https://twitter.com/BROLOLZ
https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/512690892012924929

#8 Posted by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

Girl here, normally I wouldn't mention such things, but there have been a lot of accusations banded around on how the Giant Bomb community consists of "all men trying to speak on behalf of women."

I think it's disrespectful to associate an awful minority inside a userbase as a whole. I can't get behind statements like 'Most death threats come from Giant Bomb users' because I have seen absolutely no evidence of this. I can't get behind passive-aggressive claims that 'men get erections from Lara being murdered in Tomb Raider' because that just seems absurd. I certainly can't get behind the idea that frequently being labelled as a 'white male misogynist who loves sending death threats' is somehow productive and a good step forward for the industry.

I think it's fair to say that everyone that I've personally seen who are into games, both on the developer and consumer side of things, is absolutely against the angry and awful people online. It's easy to see why people become defensive when so many websites and a few vocally prominent game developers paint its readers/fans as something they are completely against.

#9 Posted by scarycrayons (312 posts) -

@scarycrayons said:
@adamwd said:

I don't support any of this GamerGate crap, but I'm just curious, where did Anita Sarkeesian come from? I never heard of her contributing to the industry in any form prior to all this internet drama. I can't find anything stating that she has any kind of background in the industry. It seems like she just showed up out of nowhere and started complaining about everything imaginable. Am I missing something here? Seems like the attitude towards women in games has gotten worse since she arrived.

She started out with a series of YouTube videos where she criticised everything in media as being sexist or misogynistic. As a quick example, she claimed the song 'All I Want For Christmas is You' contributed to rape culture and the patriarchy because in her eyes, a woman showing happiness and affection for her partner is not about love, it's about a woman portrayed as only needing a man, hence patriarchy/rape culture. It's a viewpoint that I personally disagree with.

Pretty much all of her videos before her gaming ones had this pattern, finding something that people consider normal, and then declaring it as contributing to misogyny for reasons that, to me, are odd. One of those videos was about the original Bayonetta, judging the entire game purely from a trailer, and stated "Everything about Bayonetta is offensive, except that she's a mom."

That one got a lot of backlash and criticism from people who played games because it seemed to blur the line between lack of research, and intentionally baiting people. The conversation typically went "But she isn't a mom?" "Well, I guess Bayonetta is even more disgusting of a product than I thought! Yuck!"

After getting a huge response from people who played games (compared to her previous videos about Christmas songs and the such), that's when she started a kickstarter requesting money to make more videos like the Bayonetta one.

That's when a lot of people who had seen her Bayonetta and earlier videos became angry about her wanting money to make even more videos like it (especially given her idea of 'negative' tropes, where visually strong women are just 'Mrs. Males' and non-visually strong women are 'Fighting Fuck Toys'), and that's when a lot of gaming websites first started reporting on how 'the gamers are attacking and trying to silence feminists.'

I wonder how much of this is hyperbole.

None of it, unfortunately. If it helps, searching YouTube for her earlier videos should provide some context.

#10 Edited by scarycrayons (312 posts) -
@adamwd said:

I don't support any of this GamerGate crap, but I'm just curious, where did Anita Sarkeesian come from? I never heard of her contributing to the industry in any form prior to all this internet drama. I can't find anything stating that she has any kind of background in the industry. It seems like she just showed up out of nowhere and started complaining about everything imaginable. Am I missing something here? Seems like the attitude towards women in games has gotten worse since she arrived.

She started out with a series of YouTube videos where she criticised everything in media as being sexist or misogynistic. As a quick example, she claimed the song 'All I Want For Christmas is You' contributed to rape culture and the patriarchy because in her eyes, a woman showing happiness and affection for her partner is not about love, it's about a woman portrayed as only needing a man, hence patriarchy/rape culture. It's a viewpoint that I personally disagree with.

Pretty much all of her videos before her gaming ones had this pattern, finding something that people consider normal, and then declaring it as contributing to misogyny for reasons that, to me, are odd. One of those videos was about the original Bayonetta, judging the entire game purely from a trailer, and stated "Everything about Bayonetta is offensive, except that she's a mom."

That one got a lot of backlash and criticism from people who played games because it seemed to blur the line between lack of research, and intentionally baiting people. The conversation typically went "But she isn't a mom?" "Well, I guess Bayonetta is even more disgusting of a product than I thought! Yuck!"

After getting a huge response from people who played games (compared to her previous videos about Christmas songs and the such), that's when she started a kickstarter requesting money to make more videos like the Bayonetta one.

That's when a lot of people who had seen her Bayonetta and earlier videos became angry about her wanting money to make even more videos like it (especially given her idea of 'negative' tropes, where visually strong women are just 'Mrs. Males' and non-visually strong women are 'Fighting Fuck Toys'), and that's when a lot of gaming websites first started reporting on how 'the gamers are attacking and trying to silence feminists.'