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Senno

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Senno

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I'm assuming that the poster is part of a larger campaign that will make more sense after their press conference.

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Senno

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I'd be very interested in seeing something new - a new franchise, something different. Although Fallout 4 or Beyond Good and Evil 2 would be pretty sweet.

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Senno

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Senno

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#4  Edited By Senno

Hail,

Not sure where to post this. Person who first sends me a message will get a steam unlock key for Bioshock. Once given I will lock thread.

Cheers,

Senno.

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Senno

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#5  Edited By Senno

@Feanor: I replied to someone else earlier a comment that makes it clear that video games aren't the only medium upon which you will find immature titles. Jackass, Scary Movie and One Direction are clearly low brow, market researched and often carbon copies with little thought to the strengths of their media or their audience. I don't suggest that the industry needs to change that image - it's actually doing exceptionally well over the last few years, and I even mentioned some fantastic titles which bode well for our industries future. My actual purpose was to suggest that the originality of games like Portal, Saints Row and the like should be more embraced, rather than the next Call of Duty or Fifa. We should all be playing more original titles.

@JasonR86: Read through what I typed. I'm seeing a lot of games coming out that are very "me too", or have clearly spent an age in market research. This has diluted some franchises like Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon, made Call of Duty a sales phenomenon while playing cookie cutter action sequences, and even hurt long running franchises like Need for Speed and SSX. Look at the difference between Dead Space and Dead Space 3. Between Warcraft 2 and 3, and WoW. Between Guitar Hero and Guitar Hero 5 (which ended up killing itself). It's even killed critical darlings like Oddworld and Freespace. I am suggesting that gamers should enjoy what they want, but there are games out there that are trying something different and they're worth a look.

@MordeaniisChaos: Perhaps your right. I guess with THQ, I'm sad to see such a daring publisher go. I felt the same with Acclaim, about Gamecock, and I'm sure I'll feel the same about the next mid level publisher that takes a chance. In the end, will we only be left with EA and Activision? Will there be a place for the Codemasters and Segas of this world? Or are they destined to the same fate?

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#6  Edited By Senno

Fables and The Walking Dead seem to be what you're looking for, and might I suggest Bloodshot for a pretty good mob/military story. Comixology seems to be the best comics app to grab, and they have great deals most days too. But the individual publishers (Marvel, DC, Image, Dark Horse) all have their own apps and you might want to check them out too.

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#7  Edited By Senno

@LaserLambert: Indeed. In every entertainment medium you will find a percentage of people who just don't "get" a certain product or image. Saints Row the Third is one game that fits this mold.

@Yadilie: I can name numerous points when gamers have given a voice and developers have responded. Lets look at Dragon Age 2 - Bioware responded after it's release and are working towards making DA3 better for it. Mass Effect 3 ending bothered enough people that they extended it for players for free. Command and Conquer wasn't going to have a campaign - until gamers found out. Ubisoft decided to remove it's DRM.

These are just off the top of my head. Gamers have a voice, and in many cases the developers are listening. I'm not suggesting that ultimate change can happen, as there are limits and we are talking about their livelihoods here, but look at Oblivion's Horse Armor DLC. After the backlash, the following DLC was larger and more bang for your buck.

I've already linked to Anita before, so I won't need to again, but what I typed wasn't so much about her, but as an example of just the power that the internet has. This is someone who only wanted to explore this issue, and asked for a very minor stipend to do so. The dicks of the internet harassed her on a massive scale, and it wasn't in any way warranted. Now I can understand with someone like Jack Thompson (who really is a dick), but there is the example.

And I agree, there is a place for Saints Row. The gaming industry has a place for Saints Row as much as Journey and Heavy Rain. TV has Jackass, cinema has Scary Movie (and it's ilk), music has One Direction. They all are a part of the industry, and while we may not highlight them, they should be available for suitable audiences.

@RollingZeppelin: No I did mean masochistic, but misogynistic works very well in the context. Thanks.

@Jams: As games develop they generally get easier, not harder. Remember that after 8 years, gamers are more familiar with a game's systems then ever. Therefore the initial challenge isn't there and the developer must come up with new ways to play and new challenges. Blizzard is open about listening to their community and taking on board feedback, but this shouldn't come at the expense of all the games systems. They need to have faith in their own work to.

@Ghost_Cat: I am playing games, and enjoying them. My currently played list includes Far Cry 3, Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch and Plants vs Zombies. However to suggest that we ignore gaming trends and patterns and just play the games is in effect asking me to put my head in the sand. Which is something that I won't do. This is an industry I've grown up with and played for 3 decades. I love the fact that digital distribution and mobile gives developers a chance to try out new ideas, and some fantastic games have resulted. I loved Bastion, Fez and Portal, and Peggle is one of the best games ever. And the Walking Dead was better than I could have imagined, and is a perfect example of allowing the audience to help propel the way a developer can create. Keeping an open dialogue with your audience is crucial to a games success with smaller developers, and shouldn't be ignored for even the big releases. An educated community can only make the games we play better.

@believer258: Exactly. I said there was a place for that type of game as long as it keeps it's identity. With THQ folded I'm glad to see that Koch Media has paid a high price to keep the game's originality in place. I wouldn't hold it on the same pedestal as games like Heavy Rain and Journey, as it's not the best representation for our industry, but it deserves a place at the table because it's trying something different and it's an equal opportunity offender. And as for Heavy Rain, you haven't played it, and so you don't know how deep and enjoyable the experience it is. Heavy Rain is critically acclaimed for it's entire experience, not just it's gameplay (which I admit is a little light, but it isn't only QTE). Its something the developer Quantic Dream have received backlash for in their previous game Indigo Prohecy/Fahrenheit, but for someone who can create atmosphere, they are among the best. Check out their tech demo "Kara" or their upcoming Beyond: Two Souls and tell me that such a high profile developer taking on such an unusual premise and property isn't someone to hold to high esteem.

@MordeaniisChaos: I agree that Saints Row the Third is uneven. It's lengthy and repetitive, but there are definitely sequences which are great fun. The game is designed for playing with buddies together, and while it is cheap thrills, at least it has the backbone to have it's own identity. In an industry which is beleaguered by developers and an audience which wants more of the same, Saints Row is forging its own path. I wouldn't put it on a pedestal, but the gaming industry shouldn't have to apologise for allowing itself to be immature and poke fun at itself. I've enjoyed beating up strangers in the game with the giant purple dildo bat for brief moments, and thats the beauty of open world games - that there are so many opportunities and ways to play. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but then it doesn't have any pretensions about being so. I see it as a fun, brief gameplay filler between meatier games and the industry should allow games that have an identity a place.

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#8  Edited By Senno

@BlastProcessing: Of course, all praise to where the franchise began, but even so, a sequel doesn't have to be beheld to it's forebear.

Take for instance, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. A sequel, and yet it embraces it's past while making drastic changes to it's gameplay. Far Cry 2 did the same. So did GTA 3. And so on. Saints Row the Third is being mentioned because Cliff Bleszinski is the one who mentioned it - and I took it from there to the post's natural conclusion. We're in agreement that there is more to the game than what it is well known for. If anything, the high price paid by Koch Media shows that there is something of value beyond its absurd sense of humour.

@Yadilie: Why can't we? Well, we are on a forum to discuss games. And why not question the industry? We are it's gamers - we are it's most devoted supporters. We are the ones who spend our dollars and our time and who should be asking the questions. It's why forums like this exist and thrive. Should game developers not have their judgement consulted? Or are they above the petty concerns of the gamer?

Don't forget that the voice of the gamer is strong and powerful, and can be used for both the powers of good and evil. Anita didn't deserve the massive backlash she got. And Cliff Bleszinski should be asked what their motives are to stifle creative freedom.

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#9  Edited By Senno

@Brodehouse said:

@Senno said:

Absolutely brilliant Eurogamer article. Yet one thing bothers me about it. Call of Duty is routinely suggested that it is sold to children. I hope that is not the case. The horror and the horrible act of bringing to death someone at the end of a gun is nothing compared to the carnage and delightful glee that can be seen on a childs face as they play that title. As a name brand, it has a responsiblity to ensure that children aren't playing their product. Something as simple as monitoring it's online multiplayer (which I've heard is full of screaming adolescents anyway) and banning them.

*pounds head* No it does not!

Call of Duty has no more responsibility to make sure that children aren't playing it as Captain Crunch has a responsibility to make sure kids are eating healthy. This is a free society, one in which you unfortunately have personal responsibility. And if you have children, they are not the responsibility of people you don't even know. The television is not supposed to make decisions about what your kids should be watching, YOU ARE. And remember that an M rating doesn't mean it's illegal to watch or play, it's illegal to sell to a minor. Do you suggest Gamestop employees look at every adult buying an M rated game suspiciously, question them whether or not their kid or their little brother is going to play this copy?

It makes me crazy to see people who believe they're being progressive and free-thinking advocate the removal of civil liberties they're not directly using at the moment.

To absolve themselves of responsibility isn't fair to the children. At the very least, they should take complaints about that kind of activity very seriously. I'm not absolving the parents or even the childs responsibility in this - nor in the retailers. Note that I stated that I hoped it wasn't being sold to children. Children shouldn't be playing that game, let alone buying it. And if they are playing it, the developer should have in place a system that can weed them out. And the parents should be admonished for their ignorance.

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Senno

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#10  Edited By Senno

@hughesman: Thank you for understanding that an immature game can have a place at the table. As long as it's trying something different than I'm more willing to forgive a game's flaws. Saint's Row The Third isn't perfect (what game is), but it is fully invested in it's world. There's something to be said for a game so outrageous that one of gamings biggest champions is trying to take it down a notch just as most of the industry agree that Saint's Row was the prime item on THQ's default. Obviously it's not for everyone, and even all of the content isn't for everyone (never got into those sewerage truck missions), but it does have it's place, and thankfully Koch Media seems to agree.

@TaliciaDragonsong: Indeed. I was hard pressed to find a topic title that summed up the post in a short and attention-grabbing manner while still being true to it's content. I know I've seen some forumers post a topic that has nothing to do with it's content. Generic as it may be - it grabbed your attention, didn't it?

We each have an opinion. I for one enjoy the Legend of Zelda and Pokemon games, but not to the extent that others do. I love the Oddworld series and Pac-man, two franchises whose themes are completely at odds. I'm sure I'll enjoy GTA 5 and yet playing as a cop in Sleeping Dogs was a great deal of fun too. You can have an appreciable view on games who's ideologies are pathologically different, or even the same.

But I wont stick my head in the sand over a developers thoughts. The industry needs to be accountable by the gamers alone, and they should be demanding that designers try new things - always. It's why I respect Double Fine - for allowing their creative team to take risks. The same reason why Kojima Productions is so well respected - because the team loves the game and believes in it - bringing what they know and their ideas to the table.

If a developer wants to believe that a game series that they don't develop needs to change in order to be more appealing in the face of outside scrutiny, than by all means - say it. But I say don't be afraid when people start to question your motives.

@BlastProcessing: Please don't misconstrue my thoughts. Saints Row The Third isn't a game that should be paraded as representative of gaming any more than Pac-man should be. But the idea behind it - the original premise and the fun gameplay, have a place in the industry as much as critical darlings like Heavy Rain and Journey.