Erica Anderson, Tomboy? :) (SPOILERS!)

I was going to add some more information to the Erica Anderson page on the site. This was because I beat Catherine again last night and got the True Lover Katherine ending. I watched all the new scenes and when the reveal about Erica came. I totally misapprehended it.

I didn't realize that until today when I went to add information about her being a notorious tomboy in high school. So notorious that Vincent and his friends used to call her "Eric". When I looked at the entry, my misapprehension became readily apparent. Erica actually used to be a man. Eric used to hang around with Vincent, Jonny, and Orlando in high school. One day he disappeared for a few days and then Erica came back. I think that Vincent and his friends rapport and acceptance of Erica is really great. She and Toby have probably the best moment in the final seconds of the True Lover Katherine ending cinematic, at the wedding.

Anyway, I think it's really cool how they handled the "trans-ness" of Erica. It makes me love and respect this game even more.

It's the first time I think I've ever encountered this in a game. Maybe, Birdo... but Birdo just cross-dresses, right? I mean, it's similar and still cool, but a little different, right?

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Posted by shodan2020

I was going to add some more information to the Erica Anderson page on the site. This was because I beat Catherine again last night and got the True Lover Katherine ending. I watched all the new scenes and when the reveal about Erica came. I totally misapprehended it.

I didn't realize that until today when I went to add information about her being a notorious tomboy in high school. So notorious that Vincent and his friends used to call her "Eric". When I looked at the entry, my misapprehension became readily apparent. Erica actually used to be a man. Eric used to hang around with Vincent, Jonny, and Orlando in high school. One day he disappeared for a few days and then Erica came back. I think that Vincent and his friends rapport and acceptance of Erica is really great. She and Toby have probably the best moment in the final seconds of the True Lover Katherine ending cinematic, at the wedding.

Anyway, I think it's really cool how they handled the "trans-ness" of Erica. It makes me love and respect this game even more.

It's the first time I think I've ever encountered this in a game. Maybe, Birdo... but Birdo just cross-dresses, right? I mean, it's similar and still cool, but a little different, right?

Edited by Brodehouse

Between Erica, Kanji and Naoto, Persona Team is really doing some great work at taking LGBT characterization that could be clumsy and cliche and making the characters human. They treat it with a level of maturity that you really don't get from games writing, which is sad.

Edited by FluxWaveZ

Yes.

And Kainé (although that isn't quite the same since she's a hermaphrodite, not transsexual).

@Brodehouse: Yeah, but the next social "thing" I'd like to see them tackle is race. In Catherine, every single character is white and the same goes for Persona 3 and Persona 4 (with the exception of maybe a couple of characters). Perhaps Persona 5 could have the first black dude in a JRPG who isn't stereotyped or something.

Edited by FancySoapsMan

I thought that part of the story was actually kind of disappointing :(
 
Erica is still a great character and I don't have any problems with transsexuals, it was just a dumb plot twist.

Edited by Marokai
@FluxWaveZ: It is actually kind of amusing that Japanese game development (or even game development in general) has treated LGBT characters very maturely but almost every black character is comic relief. Interesting that they've progressed far enough for the former but not for the latter.
Posted by Rolyatkcinmai

@FluxWaveZ said:

Yes.

And Kainé (although that isn't quite the same since she's a hermaphrodite, not transsexual).

@Brodehouse: Yeah, but the next social "thing" I'd like to see them tackle is race. In Catherine, every single character is white and the same goes for Persona 3 and Persona 4 (with the exception of maybe a couple of characters). Perhaps Persona 5 could have the first black dude in a JRPG who isn't stereotyped or something.

Are you claiming the black dude with an afro with a chocobo in it in FFXIII was stereotypical?

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

Are you claiming the black dude with an afro with a chocobo in it in FFXIII was stereotypical?

Dude has an afro, battles using guns and acts like an idiot. So, as far as video games go, yes.

Posted by Rolyatkcinmai

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

Are you claiming the black dude with an afro with a chocobo in it in FFXIII was stereotypical?

Dude has an afro, battles using guns and acts like an idiot. So, as far as video games go, yes.

I was being sarcastic. That's why I chose the most stereotypical character around.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

I was being sarcastic. That's why I chose the most stereotypical character around.

Oh, sorry. Didn't catch on. But I'm glad that we agree that there's room for improvement concerning this subject. It'd be amazing to see Atlus pull it off first.

Edited by Turambar

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

Are you claiming the black dude with an afro with a chocobo in it in FFXIII was stereotypical?

Dude has an afro, battles using guns and acts like an idiot. So, as far as video games go, yes.

Is also world weary, responsible, and a dedicated father. Still probably my favorite character in the game.

Also, since I haven't had any time to do a second play through yet (only got True Lovers), is there any part of the game that actually states clearly that Erica is transexual, and actually discusses that as an actual plot point? So far, my thoughts on the matter is like my thoughts on Dumbledore being gay: a passing statement of fact that makes no difference on the character and is largely a meaningless trait in the context of the plot.

Posted by MooseyMcMan

That moment was probably my favorite part of the game. So funny!

Edited by FluxWaveZ

@Turambar said:

Is also world weary, responsible, and a dedicated father. Still probably my favorite character in the game.

Sure, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the characteristics that I'd like to see omitted from a character of his skin color in a JRPG.

@Turambar said:

is there any part of the game that actually states clearly that Erica is transexual, and actually discusses that as an actual plot point?

No, but her being a transsexual is extremely obvious once it is implied in the True Lovers ending. There are several hints throughout the game as proof. Examples:

  • Vincent saying that they wouldn't allow her to be part of a woman's wrestling league,
  • Orlando's uneasiness when Toby talks about his sexual encounter with Erica
  • The fact that she was known as 'Eric' in their childhood
  • Erica saying something like "I know how a woman's heart works" and Vincent replying jokingly "I would trust that if it were coming from a woman", which angeres Erica.

There are a few more as well.

Posted by ShadowConqueror

I went to high school with a girl named Erica Anderson. What a bitch.
Edited by Turambar

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar said:

is there any part of the game that actually states clearly that Erica is transexual, and actually discusses that as an actual plot point?

No, but her being a transsexual is extremely obvious once it is implied in the True Lovers ending. There are several hints throughout the game as proof. Examples:

  • Vincent saying that they wouldn't allow her to be part of a woman's wrestling league,
  • Orlando's uneasiness when Toby talks about his sexual encounter with Erica
  • The fact that she was known as 'Eric' in their childhood
  • Erica saying something like "I know how a woman's heart works" and Vincent replying jokingly "I would trust that if it were coming from a woman", which angeres Erica.

There are a few more as well.

Hmmm, that's disappointing. Pretty much enforces my previously stated feelings on the matter.

Also honestly, the game gave me the impression that Johnny's unease when Toby was talking about her was caused by Johnny and Erica sleeping with each other despite his awareness of Toby and Erica's relationship. It helps explain his mumblings of betraying his best friend when you meet his sheep form.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Turambar said:

Also honestly, the game gave me the impression that Johnny's unease when Toby was talking about her was caused by Johnny and Erica sleeping with each other despite his awareness of Toby and Erica's relationship. It helps explain his mumblings of betraying his best friend when you meet his sheep form.

I think you're either missing a lot of the plot or misinterpreting it. Johnny's in love with Katherine.

Posted by Turambar

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar said:

Also honestly, the game gave me the impression that Johnny's unease when Toby was talking about her was caused by Johnny and Erica sleeping with each other despite his awareness of Toby and Erica's relationship. It helps explain his mumblings of betraying his best friend when you meet his sheep form.

I think you're either missing a lot of the plot or misinterpreting it. Johnny's in love with Katherine.

Probably misinterpretation, unless there are plot points in other endings I'm missing out on.

Posted by Cloudenvy

@Turambar:

Actually, the mumblings are because he asks Katherine out on a date after she breaks up with Vincent, I believe this is revealed in one of the endings.

Edited by FluxWaveZ

@Cloudenvy said:

@Turambar: Actually, the mumblings are because he asks Katherine out on a date after she breaks up with Vincent, I believe this is revealed in one of the endings.

That's wrong. He mumbles in Nightmare Land because he's in love with Katherine but doesn't want to betray Vincent (that's before Vincent breaks up with Katherine). In the Normal Freedom ending, however, it is revealed that after Vincent breaks up with Katherine, Johnny asks Katherine out on a date, like you said (which she refuses because she still has feelings for Vincent).

Unless we're referring to two different mumblings.

Posted by DonChipotle

I was not a huge fan of Catherine, but Erica was one of the things I did enjoy about it. Maybe it was the voice acting or maybe it was the way that there were so many subtle hints that really became blatant after you knew the truth.

Or maybe I just really like red haired females. Gonna go with that.

Posted by Cloudenvy

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Cloudenvy said:

@Turambar: Actually, the mumblings are because he asks Katherine out on a date after she breaks up with Vincent, I believe this is revealed in one of the endings.

That's wrong. He mumbles in Nightmare Land because he's in love with Katherine but doesn't want to betray Vincent (that's before Vincent breaks up with Katherine). In the Normal Freedom ending, however, it is revealed that after Vincent breaks up with Katherine, Johnny asks Katherine out on a date, like you said (which she refuses because she still has feelings for Vincent).

Unless we're referring to two different mumblings.

We're not, thanks for correcting me.

Posted by Catolf
@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar said:

Is also world weary, responsible, and a dedicated father. Still probably my favorite character in the game.

Sure, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the characteristics that I'd like to see omitted from a character of his skin color in a JRPG.

I found him in no way offensive and in no way stereotypical in all honesty. I thought he was handled fantasicly. Seems like everyone is reading way to much into that. He was the best character in FF13.
Posted by Animasta

as far as T characters in video games though... there isn't a lot, and what there is more often than not a disgusting "OHO YOU THOUGHT SHE WAS A FEMALE BUT SHE HAS A DICK" jokes, which is the worst thing ever. Erica's great though

Edited by uniform

Unless there's something I'm missing, I'm not quite convinced. All the points made in this thread, save for one, can be explained as ways to tease a Tomboy. What would be the first thing cruel kids would call a Tomboy named Erica? I don't recall the wrestling comment. Is Vincent saying the school wouldn't let Erica join the women's team as a factual statement, or is it Erica's such a Tomboy the school wouldn't let her join the women's team, har har? The fourth point falls in the same category.

I figure they all have that relationship where they can comfortably rib each other. Whoever Erica is, you'd think they'd be more sensitive either way, but as was stated in the game, Vincent and his friends are grown kids. I've only seen one ending, so if I'm missing something, feel free to enlighten me.

Edited by Mrsignerman44

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

I was being sarcastic. That's why I chose the most stereotypical character around.

Oh, sorry. Didn't catch on. But I'm glad that we agree that there's room for improvement concerning this subject. It'd be amazing to see Atlus pull it off first.

I would like to see more of this also. The only character that I've seen be a badass or a real character while also being latino or black in anything japanese-produced was Michiko from Michiko to Hatchin.

Posted by shodan2020

@FluxWaveZ: I almost brought up Kaine, cause I beat Nier all 4 ways earlier this spring. I had forgotten that she was a hermaphrodite. That was super cool too, but different. :)

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@uniform: You didn't talk to Erica enough. During a night, Erica talks about how she admires strong women and how she's considering joining the women's wrestling league. Vincent discusses that with her a bit and he ends the discussion with "They wouldn't let you join anyways". And it wasn't cruel kids who called her "Eric", but her circle of friends who referred to her by that name.

And she's officially listed as "Eric Anderson" in the game's credits.

Posted by shodan2020

@Brodehouse: Yeah, totally. I can't believe I forgot about those characters from Persona 3 and 4! I played through both of them about a year or so ago. Great stuff. :)

Posted by shodan2020

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar said:

Also honestly, the game gave me the impression that Johnny's unease when Toby was talking about her was caused by Johnny and Erica sleeping with each other despite his awareness of Toby and Erica's relationship. It helps explain his mumblings of betraying his best friend when you meet his sheep form.

I think you're either missing a lot of the plot or misinterpreting it. Johnny's in love with Katherine.

Yeah, that's why he's also in the later landing levels in the nightmares. He's the Smoking Sheep. Orlando is also there later on.

Posted by OllyOxenFree

It's a man, baby! YEAH!

Posted by uniform

@FluxWaveZ:

Thank you for clarification.

Posted by Brodehouse

@FluxWaveZ: I found Sazh way more appealing than most of the other characters in that game. Maybe you didn't actually play it, but I definitely don't think he acted 'like an idiot' considering he was the old guy voice of reason for most of that game.

Posted by Brodehouse

@Turambar said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

Are you claiming the black dude with an afro with a chocobo in it in FFXIII was stereotypical?

Dude has an afro, battles using guns and acts like an idiot. So, as far as video games go, yes.

Is also world weary, responsible, and a dedicated father. Still probably my favorite character in the game.

Also, since I haven't had any time to do a second play through yet (only got True Lovers), is there any part of the game that actually states clearly that Erica is transexual, and actually discusses that as an actual plot point? So far, my thoughts on the matter is like my thoughts on Dumbledore being gay: a passing statement of fact that makes no difference on the character and is largely a meaningless trait in the context of the plot.

SPOILERS FOLKS

So the nightmares are given to men whose behavior is preventing children from being born (holding women in pointless relationships, usually). Toby is energetic and appears to want a relationship and kids, whereas Erica is obviously not capable of getting pregnant. Erica begins having the nightmares, as she falls under the umbrella of men whose behavior is preventing a 'fruitful' relationship.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Brodehouse said:

@FluxWaveZ: I found Sazh way more appealing than most of the other characters in that game. Maybe you didn't actually play it, but I definitely don't think he acted 'like an idiot' considering he was the old guy voice of reason for most of that game.

No, I definitely didn't play FFXIII yet (so I've avoided commenting on Sazh too much), but from what I had seen, Sazh just seemed clumsy and there for comic relief more than the other characters. He kind of dances while fighting and he's got an afro. At least, I'd like to see a character like that that I could take seriously from a first glance, without needing to play the game to understand how serious he's supposed to be.

Edited by Brodehouse

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Brodehouse said:

@FluxWaveZ: I found Sazh way more appealing than most of the other characters in that game. Maybe you didn't actually play it, but I definitely don't think he acted 'like an idiot' considering he was the old guy voice of reason for most of that game.

No, I definitely didn't play FFXIII yet (so I've avoided commenting on Sazh too much), but from what I had seen, Sazh just seemed clumsy and there for comic relief more than the other characters. He kind of dances while fighting and he's got an afro. At least, I'd like to see a character like that that I could take seriously from a first glance, without needing to play the game to understand how serious he's supposed to be.

You have to consider him in comparison to other characters within that game (who do flips and twirls to do throw a punch). He is kind of clumsy, but that's more to show his age in comparison to the preternatural feats Lightning performs. And the comic relief is intentional, but he's intended to come off as the guy you laugh with rather than laugh at.

And as for afro, I don't know how many black dudes you hang out with, but that's kind of how black dudes' hair grows out unless they style it.

If anything, Sazh comes off like a formal apology to black people for Barret.

Posted by Chop

Sazh was cool, one of the few things I liked about FF13. An adult character in a jrpg that isn't treated as if he's two seconds away from collapsing from old age just because he's over 30.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Brodehouse said:

And as for afro, I don't know how many black dudes you hang out with, but that's kind of how black dudes' hair grows out unless they style it.

No, that's not how black dudes' hair grow naturally. It'll only look like that if you style it, not the other way around.

And from what I've seen, Sazh is definitely better than Barret. I guess I'd need to play FFXIII to better judge Sazh, but I still think they could just make a character like that "normal" instead of having some kind of twist on them so that they're taken less seriously.

Edited by Chop

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Brodehouse said:

And as for afro, I don't know how many black dudes you hang out with, but that's kind of how black dudes' hair grows out unless they style it.

No, that's not how black dudes' hair grow naturally. It'll only look like that if you style it, not the other way around.

And from what I've seen, Sazh is definitely better than Barret. I guess I'd need to play FFXIII to better judge Sazh, but I still think they could just make a character like that "normal" instead of having some kind of twist on them so that they're taken less seriously.

Uhh, so a hair style is a "twist" now? Come on, harping on an otherwise ground breaking character for Final Fantasy just because of his hair style seems incredibly petty and ignorant. The trailers might have sold him as a goofy idiot but he ended up nothing like that, so maybe you should shut up now because with every post you're looking like a bigger idiot yourself...just a tip brah.

Edited by FluxWaveZ

@Chop: The second paragraph isn't related to the first. I wasn't talking about his hairstyle.

And how is anything I'm saying making me look like an idiot? I'm basing my opinions based on what I saw from the media surrounding FFXIII and, like I said, I didn't play it. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Posted by Catolf
@FluxWaveZ said:

@Brodehouse said:

And as for afro, I don't know how many black dudes you hang out with, but that's kind of how black dudes' hair grows out unless they style it.

No, that's not how black dudes' hair grow naturally. It'll only look like that if you style it, not the other way around.

And from what I've seen, Sazh is definitely better than Barret. I guess I'd need to play FFXIII to better judge Sazh, but I still think they could just make a character like that "normal" instead of having some kind of twist on them so that they're taken less seriously.

Actually.. it does grow that way, you just have to comb it to make sure it's not everywhere like you would do your own hair. it's not a style. Thats just keeping it from being everywhere, and being an older classy guy (pretty cool one to boot) he picks his hair and makes it look nice. But it is unstyled. If it was styled it would have corn rolls or be braided, which it is not.
 
Not trying to come off as argumentative but defiantly play ff13 at least for Sahz because you have defiantly the wrong impression of him..
Posted by SoldierG654342

@Catolf said:

Not trying to come off as argumentative but defiantly play ff13 at least for Sahz because you have defiantly the wrong impression of him..

Eeeehhh...just look him up on YouTube. Sazh is the the one character in that game that doesn't come off as being written by a two-by-four.

Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Catolf said:

Actually.. it does grow that way, you just have to comb it to make sure it's not everywhere like you would do your own hair. it's not a style. Thats just keeping it from being everywhere, and being an older classy guy (pretty cool one to boot) he picks his hair and makes it look nice. But it is unstyled. If it was styled it would have corn rolls or be braided, which it is not. Not trying to come off as argumentative but defiantly play ff13 at least for Sahz because you have defiantly the wrong impression of him..

...It's weird how we're talking about his hair, but I think I would know if hair grows that way or doesn't. If a black guy lets his hair grow, more often than not it won't transform into an afro. Not sure how you know that I'm wrong here.

Oh, and I definitely plan on playing FFXIII. I want to finish it before FFXIII-2 comes out.

Posted by Chop

@FluxWaveZ: Yeah, sorry for the random insults. I'm in a bad mood and was trying to start a fight, just ignore that post.

Anyways, the most ridiculous thing about Sazh are those stupid cheese guns he gets. Fuck you and your weapon design square...so stupid and ugly.

Edited by Catolf
@FluxWaveZ: it's lightly shaved in the back and picked, if you lay on it it would flatten, thus you would pick it back out, fro's are kinda the natural thing for the hair to do when you gently pick it. I've picked hair, it's really easy thing for the hair to do when it has no relaxer in it, but I won't argue any further about hair.
 
I'm not sure why it's a big thing that he has a fro, its a small one. It dosen't suddenly make the guy a talking/walking sterotype because his head isn't shaved is the point I'm trying to make.
Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Catolf: Well, I never said it was a big thing that he had an afro. But somewhere, the discussion started revolving around his hair.

And I'm not familiar with "hair picking"(?) but that makes more sense than saying it just grows into an afro itself.

Posted by Catolf
@FluxWaveZ said:

@Catolf: Well, I never said it was a big thing that he had an afro. But somewhere, the discussion started revolving around his hair.

And I'm not familiar with "hair picking"(?) but that makes more sense than saying it just grows into an afro itself.

Ah.
 
Well you can't just comb black hair unless it has relaxer, (more or less it's rather harder to do so unless the hair is short and it's not very attractive on a man, it's more of what girls can do, even then you need certain gels to hold it down.) you need to pick it which is how you get afro.
Edited by FluxWaveZ

@Catolf said:

Ah. Well you can't just comb black hair unless it has relaxer, (more or less it's rather harder to do so unless the hair is short and it's not very attractive on a man, it's more of what girls can do, even then you need certain gels to hold it down.) you need to pick it which is how you get afro.

I wasn't familiar with the process of obtaining an afro, but I'm all too familiar with most of the rest of what you said. But are you saying that combing short hair = unattractive for a man?

Funny discussion.

Posted by FancySoapsMan
@FluxWaveZ said:

@uniform: You didn't talk to Erica enough. During a night, Erica talks about how she admires strong women and how she's considering joining the women's wrestling league. Vincent discusses that with her a bit and he ends the discussion with "They wouldn't let you join anyways". And it wasn't cruel kids who called her "Eric", but her circle of friends who referred to her by that name.

And she's officially listed as "Eric Anderson" in the game's credits.

She also claims to be having dreams like the rest of the guys at one point.
 
That gave it away for me.
Posted by Catolf
@FluxWaveZ said:

@Catolf said:

Ah. Well you can't just comb black hair unless it has relaxer, (more or less it's rather harder to do so unless the hair is short and it's not very attractive on a man, it's more of what girls can do, even then you need certain gels to hold it down.) you need to pick it which is how you get afro.

I wasn't familiar with the process of obtaining an afro, but I'm all too familiar with most of the rest of what you said. But are you saying that combing short hair = unattractive for a man?

Funny discussion.

Yeah, for me without relaxer just combing the short hair down or back without fro just isn't for me, very unattractive for me. If your gunna do it, do the relaxer, (think andre 3000 from outcast with his long hair, now that is nice.)
Posted by FluxWaveZ

@Catolf said:

Yeah, for me without relaxer just combing the short hair down or back without fro just isn't for me, very unattractive for me. If your gunna do it, do the relaxer, (think andre 3000 from outcast with his long hair, now that is nice.)

Heh, that's kinda mean. Still, doing all that relaxer crap or whatever sounds like a pain and I don't really care enough about my looks to bother with it. It's fun to know a bit more about hair now, though.

Posted by Catolf
@FluxWaveZ said:

@Catolf said:

Yeah, for me without relaxer just combing the short hair down or back without fro just isn't for me, very unattractive for me. If your gunna do it, do the relaxer, (think andre 3000 from outcast with his long hair, now that is nice.)

Heh, that's kinda mean. Still, doing all that relaxer crap or whatever sounds like a pain and I don't really care enough about my looks to bother with it. It's fun to know a bit more about hair now, though.

XD I don't mean to be, it's just a personal preference.
 
Back OT: I kinda hope to see more Erica's in the future in gaming.
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