The sense of touch is a god damn important thing to a whole lot of people. The Wii controllers at the very least let you feel things through rumble, and the basic sensation of holding a physical object. What this kind of utter bullshit does is take Sony's fuckup removal of the rumble from their SixAxis and multiply that by dozens. Even if it works as advertised, they have effectively removed the ability to feel what you are doing. You have a system where the user makes a larger physical investment and receives even less feedback than before. There is literally no tactile feedback to this system.

Relaxation is out the window, you require a larger space for gameplay (not to mention multiplayer), and game designs are forced to rely on a technology that, unless this is SCI-FI HAPPY FUN LET'S-PRETEND-HOUR, is nowhere near as precise as even the cheapest mocap rig you'll find out there. A simple depth-aware camera (looks stereo to me) simply will not be enough. Kudo's hilarious attempts at demoing the mocap (even though this was an early version) and watching the thing freak the fuck out speaks volumes. I don't even want to get into the lighting conditions this thing probably requires.

This shit is Playstation Eye all over again. Look forward to waving your hands popping balloons, and not feeling a god damn thing when you do. Technology trumping the user experience, what a fucking hoot.

I'm actually kind of *angry* with people who think the next evolutionary step in controllers is removing buttons altogether. Say what you want about the Wii, pairing triangulation with accelerometers is a very solid first step towards a motion sensitive controller that is precise enough for gameplay and still capable of providing physical response. Maybe it's time someone stepped up and looked at gloves again? Jesus christ, let me FEEL something!

Guess it needs saying that i'm a 360 owner and i love the system.

Edit: The "dicks" thing is sort of tongue in cheek :P It's just my gut feeling. People wanting to take my toys away. Grr.

EyeToy was awesome for about 3 hours. I'm not giving an opinion on the subject, i'm just fondly remembering the EyeToy for the few hours of entertainment it gave me.

I can totally see your point, but I have to admit watching it live I was totally blown away by it. I thought the idea of not feeling anything would be a bit of a let down however, but I guess, like with most things we will just have to wait and see.

Good point. This is very comparable to the PS eye in a lot of ways. Maybe they figured out a better way to translate movement to input. We shall see. But without the right software, this technology, as sony has demonstrated is just a gimick. There is a reason why people aren't saying the PSeye did it first, because it didn't create enough impact on gaming for people to really notice. Again software is the key. If a a bunch of Sony devs came out and said more games would have exclusive interactive cutscenes using the PS eye It might be more popular.

Fully agree.

Yes, I totally agree. And as for Milo. Well that was absolutely scripted bullshit edited in a way to grab headlines but is totally not feasible by current day AI or technology. Physically impossible in this year, on this day on XBOX 360.

OMG!!! BRAVO kid. you just made my day. this was so funny.

I don't think you've fully seen through what the implications are. I think you're right in that the Natal alone is worthless, but I think that any game dev worth their salt will use this tech in far better ways than Molineux.

I imagine it starting simple and slowly integrating into our gameplay. Say you're shooting dudes in an FPS with a controller and decide to lob a grenade with your real life hand. Natal picks up your hand's arc and the strength of your throw is calculated instantly. Sounds better than holding a grenade button for three seconds to 'charge' it, or looking toward the sky to throw a hail mary nade. In this case, I'd say Natal improves our control and gameplay.

Hell, when I saw the demo all I kept thinking was, "If you thought Mass Effect had good character interactions. Imagine Mass Effect with this tech." I bet Molineux plans to put a bunch of Milos in a third Fable (if he wants to make one, that is.

I think sitting down in front of my TV, it seeing its me and logging me into my profile is pretty hot.

Playing actual games on it will probably not be great, but the touch free menus and voice recognition while selecting movies, as well as the family friendly game show, look to be good and fun.

Also, this will take the place of the old camera for the 360, so that means there was a damn good reason that You're in the Movies was being sold for so cheap!

Uh yeah not really to excited about this either. Its ok i guess but as long as they dont force it onto games ill be fine.

I think it looks really really cool. If it works great, it it doesn't it'll be a shame

I just think they're making a mistake in making it seem so seamless. USB is far too low in quality for what this making it seem to be. Although it seems like a great idea now for the minigames they showed off, no one will want to ask Milo if he wants to play Halo with this.

They weren't talking about the Natal as a traditional controller, their not talking about replacing the standard Xbox 360 controller or even integrating the Natal into existing games.  Their talking about this as a completely seperate product aimed at a more casual audience than I suspect frequents this site.

Congratulations.  You've proven that you don't like exercising or movement in general.

My name is End Boss and I support this thread's original message.

What disturbed me more was them basically saying this technology is enough to keep them from making the next XBOX.

Unlike what the eye toy and Wii did, this is actually a step forward in controlling shit in an interesting way technology.

I'm all kinds of pro new technology. The dicks are the people who are removing tactile feedback. That's my main beef. I'm all for new motion control methods, but i basically DEMAND that i can actually feel some sort of response. I don't think it's crazy to imagine people holding random household objects when playing a tennis game using the Natal just to get a sense of weight in there, or that there will be a peripheral market for "junk to hold", such as gun peripherals that the Natal will pick up etc.

This has sort of become derailed. I don't really mind a new EyeToy style addon, as much as i'm not going to buy it there's certainly a market segment for that kind of thing. The notion put on by MS and their partners however is that this is some sort of brilliant new advance in controller technology that will change how people play games, and to that i say people have flailed around in front of cameras for quite a while, and that this sort of tech actually REMOVES integral parts of the game playing experience that are, for me at least a big part of why i keep coming back to it.

It feels good to press a button and see a system respond.
It feels good to drive off the track and hit the gravel and have the controller rumble in your hands.
It feels good to grab a controller tightly when you're playing a scary game and it's a tense moment.
It feels good to physically hand the controls over to a friend.
It feels good to pull a trigger, hear the bang, feel the rumble, see the enemy fall.
It feels good to gently nudge a stick forward to move closer to an edge without overstepping.

These are positive vibes i personally feel when playing games, and things that i connect emotionally to the controller. This is why users argue over which controller feels the best, which sticks are the best, button layouts, yadayada. They connect physically with the way they play the game, where the goal is effectively to eliminate guesswork between the player and the way the system responds. This is the absolute ESSENCE of control scheme designs.

I simply don't want to guess wether a gesture will be picked up or not. So give me a super sensitive, super analog motion sensing controller that actually responds to me physically. Give me a sense of touch in games. That is what we are missing for the circle to be complete. Not REMOVING it. Two steps forward, 3 steps back. Damn you, dick scientists.

It's not a big deal. Of course Microsoft is going to do something to compete with Wii. I think it looks fun, but I'm also an open-minded person who doesn't mind moving.

I kind of agree with the original post. No amount of half-assed camera motion stuff is ever going to be precise as a regular controller (or hell, even a wii remote)

If you don't like it, don't buy it!

It's not for you apparently.

yah 1 kn0w. m1cr0$0ft iz being way lamesauc3 about this 'Project natalie" shit. Its a disgrais to hardquore gamers everyhwere!!1!!

Hell yeah i take games seriously. 24th year of playing them and counting, 8th year of working with them. There is an art here that i love, and removing tactile response is like translating your favorite novel into SMS language.

I think that the technology is intriguing, but i have to put my hands on it before i give a judgement. After all, we remember what the difference between the wii controllers potential and its capabilities were, which is why the Motion plus is coming out now. I really, really like the idea of going through menus with the wave of my hand, but i dont think it'll be precise enough to use with gaming