@Tetsuo said:

Whole lotta hypocritical motherfuckers commenting up in this piece. We all know you "YOU SHOULD NEVER PIRATE IT IS THEFT" people have pirated games, and probably more than most. People who don't feel guilty about a thing don't get defensive about that thing's existence. Y'all are like all those "GAYS SHOULD BURN IN HELL" Republicans who then start fucking dudes in airport bathrooms.

And yeah, fucking this. I'm so tired of sanctimonious assholes everytime a conversation over piracy pops up. We all know every single one of you has streamed a video. Downloaded porn without paying for it. Has downloaded a torrent. Or emulated some obscure Ps1 or SNES game. Or any other vaguely piracy related activity you can think of.

Piracy isn't theft.
 
Piracy doesn't take away a potential sale, it puts a piece of content into someone's hands that they may have otherwise never experienced. it doesn't hurt the individual or individuals producing the content. It uses no resources other that those of the torrent seeder and the torrent leecher.
 
I'm not going to morally justify piracy, but if you think it's hurting anyone you're fucking retarded. What's hurting games is people paying for copies and the developers getting none of the cut.
 
And DRM isn't in place to keep pirates out, it's to keep ignorant people from pirating.
 
And it DOES work in that regard.

I pirate games that don't have demos, so I can make sure they even work before plopping down $50. I also pirate games that I have legally bought in order to circumvent shitty DRM.
 
If you think I'm a theif or unappreciative asshole because of this, you can eat my shit.

EA took note that Spore and Mass Effect had record setting swarm numbers for torrents, that changed their DRM policy. What this guy is saying works, legal or not.

@ZeForgotten said:

@Brendan said:

This is no different then when other people claim they only pirate shit because they find something they don't like with the game. Even if in this case the company is at fault, stealing is not justifiable.

an even funnier excuse is the people saying stuff like "I'm downloading it so I can try it before I buy it". That one cracks me up every damn time

Some of those people are telling the truth, alot of games don't have demos and (usually) the pirated version is inferior and they want to upgrade.

@ZeForgotten said:

@Brendan said:

This is no different then when other people claim they only pirate shit because they find something they don't like with the game. Even if in this case the company is at fault, stealing is not justifiable.

an even funnier excuse is the people saying stuff like "I'm downloading it so I can try it before I buy it". That one cracks me up every damn time

Some of those people are telling the truth, alot of games don't have demos and (usually) the pirated version is inferior and they want to upgrade.

@Tetsuo said:

Whole lotta hypocritical motherfuckers commenting up in this piece. We all know you "YOU SHOULD NEVER PIRATE IT IS THEFT" people have pirated games, and probably more than most. People who don't feel guilty about a thing don't get defensive about that thing's existence. Y'all are like all those "GAYS SHOULD BURN IN HELL" Republicans who then start fucking dudes in airport bathrooms.

And yeah, fucking this. I'm so tired of sanctimonious assholes everytime a conversation over piracy pops up. We all know every single one of you has streamed a video. Downloaded porn without paying for it. Has downloaded a torrent. Or emulated some obscure Ps1 or SNES game. Or any other vaguely piracy related activity you can think of.

The real assholes that should not be supported are the assholes that expanded the meaning and duration of copyright in the American system to become the towering behemoth it now is. Even our system of libraries would be outlawed under the current rules if they were not already so well established. And believe me, rights companies are doing everything they can to try to destroy them. And in terms of founding rationale and practice, there is scant little difference between Internet piracy and the library system. Both should be supported.

I've gotten a fuckload of obscure SNES games in my day. Usually fan translations of stuff that never hit the states. Sometimes you kinda don't have a choice but to pirate something.

I'll be the first to admit, I used to download pretty much anything... games, movies, music; as a teenager I justified it in my head as "well, if I had the money I'd buy this... but I don't" then as I got a little older my justification became "Honestly, I'd never listen to this, watch this, or play this if I had to pay money for it, so it's okay". When I truly grew up and really became an adult you realize how those justifications compromise and blur what's right and wrong, there is no adequate justification for taking something that has a price tag without paying for it, there's just not.
 
In the end, it's all about justifications- someone finding whatever reason, to take something without having to pay for it, and if they're looking for a justification it means that deep down they know they are doing something wrong. Pirating wont change DRM, but rather influence new, stricter kinds of DRM. If everyone who spent the time waiting for a torrent to download took that time to write a letter to Ubisoft (in TC's case) and say "Because of your decision to use DRM X I have decided not to purchase a game I otherwise would have paid money for, nor will I pirate this game and give your company the chance to win a consumer (even if I got the original item for free). " If that happens then maybe something will change, but in the end people will keep doing what they wanted to. 
 
Here's a novel idea for an internet pirate, and I challenge one to take it up. If your justification is 'I downloaded it for free because of reason ____, otherwise I would have paid for it" then keep downloading for free, but every time you do take the MSRP and donate it to a charity. In the case of 'From Dust' take the $15 and give it to the needy. If someone can't do this, then they need to check their justifications.

@warxsnake said:

This is the fucking dumbest argument ever. You are still not entitled to the game whether or not you think the DRM is harsh. Nothing will change the fact that you are a thief, plain and simple, as you put it. You sound like one of those birdbrains who try to legitimize the london/england riots and looting.

You want to make a difference? Don't buy the fucking game.

I do kind of disagree with pirating. As long as you pay for it I say go ahead and download a DRM free version if you really want to. I bought Deus Ex 1 and 2 but they won't play on a mac, so I'm looking for a way to work around that. Also I feel like Piracy is justifiable if it is something that was never released in your area. Earthbound is probably my favorite game ever, If Mother 3 was coming to the US I'd get it day 1. But that never happened so the only options I have are to not play it, buy a $100 game in a laguage that I can't read, or download a ROM and a patch that magically makes things readable.  
Now downloading FFVII, FFIX, RE1, RE2 and RE3 is not justifiable, I just didn't own a ps3 at the time and I really wanted to play these games people called classics. It wasn't something I did with a clear conscience and I haven't downloaded anything since.  But If i did happen to buy those in a store, they would be used copies, the people that worked real hard on them wouldn't have seen a dime from me. Maybe I'm hypocritical in saying you shouldn't download stuff, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. 
 
I always hate it when someone just says something like, "man they fucked up with the sequel. Now I'm just gonna pirate it."

@Auswin said:

Here's a novel idea for an internet pirate, and I challenge one to take it up. If your justification is 'I downloaded it for free because of reason ____, otherwise I would have paid for it" then keep downloading for free, but every time you do take the MSRP and donate it to a charity. In the case of 'From Dust' take the $15 and give it to the needy. If someone can't do this, then they need to check their justifications.

That is a great idea. The only problem with that is the teenagers and kids who literally do not have the money. They can't even give to charity, in which case I would say wait until you have the money.

@ZeForgotten said:

@Brendan said:

@ZeForgotten said:

@Brendan said:

This is no different then when other people claim they only pirate shit because they find something they don't like with the game. Even if in this case the company is at fault, stealing is not justifiable.

an even funnier excuse is the people saying stuff like "I'm downloading it so I can try it before I buy it". That one cracks me up every damn time

"Ok, well, I finished the game, but it's got no replay value, so fuck 'em! If it's some shitty game I only want to play once then why should I pay for it?"

Amazing, that's exactly how it plays out in my head too every time I hear someone say it. And then of course a year or something later they download it again and why? to see if it had gotten better and somehow now is worth a purchase?

yeah i thought i was able to do that. turns out i cant and i end up not buying it.

Brought The Witcher 2 cause i felt terrible, havent opened it yet lol

You want to make a difference? Don't buy the fucking game.

 
 
Summed up in the very first response. If want to steal the game then just steal the game. Don't try to make some noble rationalization about it. There is no better way to honestly make a statement than with your wallet. Not with theft.

...

So, I'm no moral purist. I think it's silly to judge all issues as black and white. In my mind, there are certain conditions were, while still illegal, it is not unethical to pirate a game. Given that, you'd naturally think I could be convinced to accept additional conditions if the proper argument is presented.
 
This is not that argument. The correct response in this case would be to simply not buy the game. Pirating it accomplishes nothing. You seem to have the sense that you are entitled to these games for no reason. You are not. If you're going to do that, at least own up to it and not act like you're doing it with noble intent.

The bad DRM that comes with the game is a part of the game... and if you don't want the game, you shouldn't purchase it. Or steal it. There is no moral justification for stealing. Go ahead and do it if you want, but don't think for a second you have any sort of moral grounds for doing so. You are stealing because you can, not because you have the right to.

 I always hate it when someone just says something like, "man they fucked up with the sequel. Now I'm just gonna pirate it."

Summed up in the very first response. If want to steal the game then just steal the game. Don't try to make some noble rationalization about it. There is no better way to honestly make a statement than with your wallet. Not with theft.

The bad DRM that comes with the game is a part of the game... and if you don't want the game, you shouldn't purchase it. Or steal it. There is no moral justification for stealing. Go ahead and do it if you want, but don't think for a second you have any sort of moral grounds for doing so.

Fuck stores that charge .99 per bagel, and then have the nerve to charge you for butter. Just steal that shit up, motherfucker.

Copy right infringement is not theft. The closest analogy is trespassing.

@warxsnake said:

You are still not entitled to the game whether or not you think the DRM is harsh.

Absolutely right. Pirating the game does not help at all.

Although Ubisoft should think that DRM might be hurting their sales more than it is helping anti-piracy.

@Marokai said:

Not buying the game is retarded and doesn't accomplish anything. They will blame pirates for low sales anyway and then just stop making PC games. "Vote with your wallet" is a lofty ideal but seldom actually makes a difference. Some sort of action potentially can. (Whether this is piracy, or not.)

Maybe they stop making PC games, but how is pirating the game helping? All it does is tell them exactly what they thought before, which is that if you put a game onto PC, it will be pirated. You are trying to help them fulfill their ideology. Now, if the game didn't sell AND torrent downloads were way down, that would send a different message altogether.

Once again, pirating does not HELP the situation, only complicates it. It's still not a defensible action.

@CallofSpartansofWar1337 said:

i feel bad for da guy that spent months makin da textures who didn get to choose the drm and den doesnt get money cause you took a sale from him cuz ur makin a stand or somethn. poor guy :(

TROLLOLOLOLOL  Sure, pirate the game and then Ubisoft has even more excuse to implement even more pervasive DRM.  Or man up and not play it at all.

@YukoAsho: Piracy doesn't solve the DRM dilema. DRM is the result of the piracy dilema. It just adds fuel to the fire. It gives companies like Ubisoft more reason to continue creating even more ridiculous DRM, and far less reason to even bother with the PC market to begin with. Also, the problem is not with PC developers so much as large, multi-platform developers. There's plenty of PC exclusive developers (many of them small independent studios, granted) that actually get it. There's a better solution out there.

While I agree that it is terrible that pirates often get a better experience than paying customers that still is no reason to pirate a game. If there is something (may it be DRM or a bad port) that keeps you from buying the game: Contact the publisher, tell them you won't buy the game because of reason xy (and actually don't buy it) and leave it with that. Pirating the game does nothing but harm to PC gaming no matter the reason you pirated it.

lol at this neverending cycle. Better DRM --> Better crackers on the Scene--> pirates continue surfing the digital seas

No need for justification when you can steal something and almost consistently not get caught. Morality might make some sleep better at night but the fact is there are enough people out there who either don't wanna pay or enjoy breaking security that this thing will keep happening. No need to get all troll like or preachy. The internet is everyone's accessible, wild frontier and we should all be painfully aware that once something touches it, there's no ownership of it anymore. You might be an author, but you certainly can't control where it goes from there. Governments do it in secret, and lulzsec does it out in the open. Picking on individuals won't stop the global pandemic, and thus the MPAA, RIAA, and other entities are doomed to fail, just like the war on drugs, or any other war on figurative language. Short of mass extinction dude, Piracy will be around as long as Free Speech is.

@Dread612 said:

@iDarktread said:

Fuck stores that charge .99 per bagel, and then have the nerve to charge you for butter. Just steal that shit up, motherfucker.

No, because that would be called theft. If you stole a bagel, you are physically removing that bagel so they can no longer sell. In your example, pirating a bagel would be magically making a copy of one without depriving them of the original bagel.

Piracy does not equal theft. Just as theft does not equal robbery (use or threat of violence). Just as robbery does not equal 1st degree murder. Just as 1st degree murder does not equal involuntary manslaughter.

Piracy does equal copy right infringement. Having said that, most copy right laws tend to bend the customers over the barrel to protect the corporate interests. See ( DMCA)

that is the same BS (sorry) sort of resoning that people say UBI used with the DRM on From Dust ... while you may technically be right, pirating the game still is stealing and morally wrong.

@HonoredSamurai said:

Governments do it in secret, and lulzsec does it out in the open.

Please don't try defending those cowards.

@Napalm said:

@Brodehouse said:

The bad DRM that comes with the game is a part of the game... and if you don't want the game, you shouldn't purchase it. Or steal it. There is no moral justification for stealing. Go ahead and do it if you want, but don't think for a second you have any sort of moral grounds for doing so.

Because you totally have morals if you support bait and switch tactics and invasive DRM. Yeah, you're some saint, broski.

And once again, I wish I could double follow someone.

Still piracy, dude. Don't buy it if you wanna make a stand.

@Ragdrazi: Either way, it's not a solution. The bigger problem than DRM is that many multi-platform developers are shying away from the PC due to a number of factors, including piracy, and then when we do see multi-platform games on PC, they're often nothing more than console ports. You can certainly argue the validity of piracy as an excuse for the current wave of DRM, but I think it's more than fair to say that any major publisher looking at the PC market is bound to see the multitude of posts like this, and ask themselves "why bother"?

I'm fine with some developers or publishers avoiding the PC market. That's totally fine. If it means I'll have fewer opportunities to get burned on a broken, non-optimized, console port, awesome. What I really don't like is when publishers like Ubisoft, who apparently have no love whatsoever for the PC, continue to mislead customers, and put out inferior products. If they're not willing to spend the time to come up with something that works properly, then they probably shouldn't bother in the first place. There are still plenty of great games every year on the PC that get the care and attention they deserve, and hopefully more publishers will realize that the added effort will go a long way.

The way I see it, you have 2 choices:

1. Buy the game.
2. Don't buy the game.
3. Pirate the game.

Vote with your dollars, kids.

Anyone trying to justify piracy here is wrong. Anyone saying they are entitled to an illegal copy of the game is wrong. Anyone who downloaded this illegally on some misguided principle is wrong. If you already gave them your money, you are entitled to be annoyed. Ubisoft fucked up, I agree; But all that entitles you to is an apology and a refund, not illegal filesharing.

Believe it or not I don't actually have too much of an issue with piracy in general. I mean I know it's bad, but I'm not losing sleep over it. However the arrogance and warped entitlement issues surrounding the Ubisoft DRM thing really touched a nerve.

Oh and, being a mod, I have to mention that any comments where a user admits to pirating a game, encouraging piracy, or posting links to filesharing sites will be deleted. Anyone who repeatedly does so will be banned.

"turning a purchase into an extended rental" and you point at Skyrim?!?! Did I miss something here? Last time I checked, you could still buy/preorder Skyrim as a physical thing.
Oh and it supports steamworks- that is a GOOD thing. And no, Steam is not at all evil- as some of the "hardcore-oldschool" pc crowd would lead you to believe. I´m actually inclined to say that steam (and blizzard/social games) is the only reason there still is support for the pc platform from any publisher.
 
Whatever. This is about UbiSoft. They fucked up when they announced lies and the world should be mad at them. They should let them know. The PR-guys responsible for something like this (I would call it misinformation) should be fired.
BUT you can´t justify pirating games (or even A game) with this. This is the same fucked up logic that pirates use all the time ("Oh company X is evil/big/has money/does DRM, so we can steal their stuff")
 
NO!
 
If you don´t like what they´re doing, DON´T buy their stuff. If you were there on day one and bought From Dust (buying PC games on day 1 is always pretty dumb- Magicka says "hello") then bitch about it to Ubi Soft or Valve or whatever.
But don´t pirate games for stupid made up moralistic reasons.

DRM can be handled correctly, or rather, it can be integrated into a service that is superior to piracy.  Steam is the best example: cloud saves, unlimited licenses tied to an account, automatic updates, cross-game text and voice chat, and achievements, all in exchange for purchasing a game on a closed platform.  For millions of consumers, the trade-off is well worth it. 
 
What publishers like Ubisoft cannot understand is that pirates may not have been all to interested in buying their games to begin with.  I'd wager most are: A. looking to try the game before buying it, or B. cannot afford it at any rate.  In either circumstance, neither can be viewed as a lost sale. 
 
That said, pirating out of protest isn't helping anyone.  In fact, it's likely validating the need for more robust, intrusive anti-piracy measures.  Bottom line, if you want to contest DRM, don't buy the game.  Period.

Copy right infringement is not theft. The closest analogy is trespassing.

I would not steal simply because I didn't want to support an asshole publisher. I would simply not support them, and the studio is the one who suffers.

I have been guilty of stealing a few.  Purely because of practicality.  It's sadly far easier to download a game for free than it is to browse through a store, await delivery of physical copy etc.  However, with such digital distribution applications as steam, I have managed to stave off the desire to steal for a couple of years. 
 
IMO the OP is advocating a total "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality, which is pretty ignorant.
 
The publishers are money grabbers, they always have been and they always will be money grabbers.  However, trying to argue that their actions of trying to protect their business against piracy is destroying PC gaming is utter gobbledygook.  It's like saying that children are to blame for provoking perverts into committing illegal acts.  I'm not aware of any situation where any publisher has refused to support the customer, you can even get additional 'limited' activations if you contact them individually and provide your key or other confirmation.  This is not preposterous considering that you're not likely to require an infinite number of activations.
 
Online-checking is the only semi-useful method of securing your digital product from piracy.  Therefore in small instances the paying customer will suffer because of the hacking/theiving minority.  Frustrating if you want to play somewhere with a poor or unobtainable internet connection, I've experienced this myself when moving house, but this should only motivate you to work harder to ensure that you have your internet setup in place.
 
If you ask me, consoles are the most costly form of 'DRM'.  A totally worse experience than PC across the board.  Plus you'll almost certainly need to buy PC anyway for the day to day (almost essential) functions for work, social or pleasure activities.
  

I'm happy for publishers/developers to do whatever they can to inhibit piracy - as long as they don't increase the price (i.e. go console).

@Brodehouse said:

The bad DRM that comes with the game is a part of the game... and if you don't want the game, you shouldn't purchase it. Or steal it. There is no moral justification for stealing. Go ahead and do it if you want, but don't think for a second you have any sort of moral grounds for doing so.

Because you totally have morals if you support bait and switch tactics and invasive DRM. Yeah, you're some saint, broski.

Yoko, you don't need to justify your actions.  You want to play games, but feel like the restrictions are bullshit.  You are not willing to give up the hobby you love just on the off-chance that you not buying a game will make a "difference!!".  So you pirate.  Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks?  You don't need the approval of anyone but yourself. 
 
These game developers know how prevalent pirating is.  They know people will do it if they keep adding bullshit into their games, and they've made the conscious decision to continue doing so.  Fair enough.  They made their decision and you've made yours.   
 
It's all good.

all i know is that pirating an ubisoft game means the guy who writes Assassin's creed gets less money, so i don't do it.

I've never understood why people who lament the DRM of modern PC games but have a problem with piracy don't just buy the game through Steam or whatever their preferred method and then pirate it as well. That way you've paid for the game to satisfy your moral quandary, but you still get a game that is actually playable in the fashion you want.

This is why I say entitlement in the video games world has gone way too far.

There is only one way a video game can be sure of making money: Sales. Pirating takes away the only source of income for many games, as few Pirates will embark on multiple micro-transactions (if the game even has them).

Therefore there is no way to justify piracy, end of.