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Yummylee

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Buyer's Remorse - She Burns!

I was relatively optimistic towards Amalur for a while after hearing about how it's meant to be an Elder Scrolls-ish RPG with ''God of War'' like combat. The trailers enticed me all the more, and even the demo left me feeling cautiously positive. But then... I dunno... after around 5 hours of playing (on Friday... mostly been playing Gears 3 instead) my stomach gradually began to sink as I couldn't help but notice how damn dated this thing is across its entirety.

I mean, I understand they weren't aiming to actually make a new Elder Scrolls, but the world is so terribly static (the taverns in particular are so depressingly inanimate and empty), the character models are so poorly detailed--often paired with equally terrifying and hilarious facial and mid-dialogue animations--you'll often encounter people who look just like your own character (thanks in no small part to the relative simplicity of the character creator and the shallow selection of races--basically two human races and 2 elves), and the ''world'' from what I can tell is basically made up of a lot of pretty corridors with towns in the middle. And some instanced off dungeons.

And your character.. now I don't hold any grudges against silent protagonists (even if they are becoming tougher to tolerate as the years go by), but it's the fact that they don't allow you to birth some sort of personality via the dialogue options you can choose your character to say that I vehemently dislike, which leaves the protagonist as the emptiest of slates with but an occasional blink just to prove that your character is in fact alive during conversations. At least Link actually animates, and games like Dragon Age: Origins had some brilliantly clever/humorous dialogue options for you choose from to build an identity. Your own race doesn't even factor into things either far as I can tell; having some bartender telling me not to worry about the upstairs healer because she's some... dark elf, or whatever stupid name they needlessly conjured up to make their world appear more unique, when I myself am also a dark elf just ripped me out of believing my character was actually somebody rather than just a player avatar.

Oh, and the combat isn't even all that good! It can be pretty satisfying to swing my massive flaming hammer around, but the combat is nowhere near as deep as I was hoping. You can't even bloody jump! Playing on hard mode, the game is also pretty frustrating... because of how easy it is! For a lot of battles, all I quite literally do is smash the square button over and over. Sure, there'll be sub boss battles that provide some opposition, but otherwise against all the random mobs, and even some of the humanoid boss battles who'll flinch after every attack, I can just rest and mash the square button and I'm sorted. Then there's nagging issues like why can I only do special stealth kills with daggers? Or why must my bow take up my second weapon spot when I'm naturally going to want to have a bow equipped anyway. If they really wanted to allow a little more combat puzzazz, they should of given you a third spot solely for a ranged weapon; that way you could have two melee weapon spots to mix up your attacks and not have to sacrifice a ranged weapon--or be forced to continually change your secondary weapon. Oh, and the way your shield just appears is silly, and it specifically irks me because I often like to see my character with his shield equipped too. For a game that's all about making your character look awesome, it's surprising that they passed over the tick box about allowing my character to strut around with a sword 'n' shield like a baws.

The cartoony style I do like, though, as I do the Destiny system - which is probably the only shining beacon of creativity the game showcases. And to be fair, I've only played a small amount thus far... but after looking over the ''moves'' list, there's really not that much else to look forward to as regards to expanding my attack patterns. If the game stays as easy as it has thus far as well then I won't even need to use any ''tactics'' besides ole faithful.

The world is just so bloody boring and it leaves me with little desire to learn more; and these days it also takes just a little more than some ''loot lust'' to push me further--especially when the game's this easy, when a green weapon is already all I need to do the job swiftly.. Frankly, the entire game feels like its sole purpose was to act as the precursor for the MMO; it'll set up the lore and the races and what have you, and then they begin with the real game. I mean seriously, how can a game with this many huge names tagged to the development evidently suffer from what looks have been a fairly low budget?

Maybe the game does hold some surprises down the line, though; maybe it'll eventually rise to be a game I'll at least finish. But as of now, it's left me with a soul crushingly bad first-impression and the mere thought of heading back in doesn't exactly have me tearing with excitement. It's overall shallow, derivative to a frightening degree and something I really wish I hadn't put £38 towards. On the bright side, Gears 3 is pretty fucking awesome. Really dislike the submarine and end boss segments, though. But otherwise, its 5 stars is well deserved.

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TL;DR

God Dammit

123 Comments

123 Comments

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NaDannMaGoGo

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Edited By NaDannMaGoGo

@Tennmuerti said:

@Seppli said:

Main difference. The Witcher 2 is a beautiful game and it's character-driven with a strong 'chose your own story' element. Both of which KoA:R is not. Many of the Witcher 2's other aspects are found in KoA:R though. Infinitely more of it and so much richer. More combat. More loot. More dungeons. More enemies. Simply more.

And that's one of the core problems. More isn't better. Sometime even more is in fact worse. (Jeff perfectly brough it up as a main concern Amalur would have benefited from being more focused)
More dungeons but so what? They are all similar.
More combat? Sure but it boils down to doing the same thing over and over for a 100 hours.
More enemies? Just like dungeons you only actually have a few types and models. There are more only in overall number.
None of these more in numbers make up for the focused quality, story, choices of Witcher 2.

What it does best is being Diablo with a 3rd person action twist. All the rich content around that (which I like well enough and many seem to dislike) are the icing on it. At its core, KoA:R is about braving dungeons, kill the shit out of enemies, loot their riches and becoming a powerful hero. I do enjoy that a lot. Combat is fun. More so than most RPGs. It feels snappy and tight and just deep enough to allow me to dispose of my foes in style.

IF you are comparing it to Diablo. It's a very very shallow poor mans Diablo. (lets be clear we are talking at least Diablo2 here) Much less depth in character progression. Much less depth in loot. No balance. No real difficulty. No boss loot runs. No newgame+ for more and more challange. Those are the core tenents of a dungeon crawler like Diablo. People who play games like Diablo play them for those merits. Reckoning has these but again it comes up against the same barrier. It's simply not good enough in those areas. Again the jack of all trades problem. It apes Diablo but fails to achieve the same level of depth/complexity/difficulty.

KoA:R attempts to mix exactly the elements I like the most from Open World RPGs, MMORPGs and 3rd Person Action games. I totally agree that its far from perfect in execution, but it's successful enough at everything it attempts to be the game that's the most how I want modern action RPGs to be. For my taste, it has the perfect template. It's a perfect 10 in premise, a 7 in execution and my personal appreciation is a enthusiastic 9/10.

That's a problam for me. I play deep story focused RPGs like Witcher. I played MMOs like WoW. I play action games like GoW. I play dungeon crawlers like Diablo. They all scratch their specific itches and above all excel at what they are doing. In their context Amalur does all those things but falls short, making it kind of a stitched together zombie. It's like playing an inferior version of everything. None of the hooks work on the same level as those other games. In theory it's a grand idea. In practice it just doesn't work out. I can only kill the shit out of so many enemies before it becomes a boring repetative thing. (MMOs deal with this by having player interaction and shit to do/talk while you're in the grind, Dungeon crawlers deal with it by keeping the challange ramped up and loot lust always relevant, action games have more technical/difficult combat that doesn't go on for so long) In the end I guess Reckonings failing imo is not that it fails at perfect execution of all of these (that would be insane to excpect). It's that it fails at proper execution of at least one of these.

Man I love it when people argue like a boss and know their shit.

Replies like those restore my faith in (gaming) humanity! (That said I had restore faith in.. comments... *punch myself*)

Edit: Unfortunately it mostly isn't people like you who do reviews these days :/

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niamahai

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Edited By niamahai

After 30 hours I decided to fuck it and just finish the main quest. 

 
Playing Amalur made me realize despite how simple a conversation system is, its not one of the easiest thing to do well. 
38 Studio created a fantasy world where the statue quo is different enough to make it interesting, sadly there is nothing in the game that makes you want to explore more of the world's lore. (Lorestones for some reason don't exactly get the message across like the audio tapes in Bioshock)
 
But I am still interested to see a KOA2.

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honkyjesus

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Edited By honkyjesus

It seems like it wasn't something you wanted it to be, you played through the whole thing thinking at some point it would be TES?, wondered where the damn Dragon Shouts were... and then came here to talk about your feelings.

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Yummylee

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Edited By Yummylee

@honkyjesus said:

It seems like it wasn't something you wanted it to be, you played through the whole thing thinking at some point it would be TES?, wondered where the damn Dragon Shouts were... and then came here to talk about your feelings.

Yes, exactly, you've cracked the code.

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DrDarkStryfe

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Edited By DrDarkStryfe

Instead of trying to make an open world and bloated 60 hour adventure, they can make a really tight 30 hour adventure. That is what I took from my experience in the game, and have faith in the studio in their future releases.

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mandude

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Edited By mandude

Disappointing. Even with it's polarised reception, I want this so bad. I guess I'm just a whore for Irish mythology, though...

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Vash108

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Edited By Vash108

PC version here so was unable to return on Steam. I played for about 3 hours giving it a good try but I could not get hooked and never came back to it.

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TaliciaDragonsong

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Having finally played some of it I can agree with most of this.
 
They try, goddamnit they really try, but the world is so fucking cliche it just hurts.
 
It's satisfying my needs to mash buttons and pretend I'm some dagger wielding heroine right now though, since Fable seems to be MIA and not looking good.

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theacidskull

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Edited By theacidskull

Finally built up the balls to finish the game, just so I could say that I beat the story. Look I'm a bit new to RPG's, but are side quests supposed to be this boring? I mean, I honesty turned off the sound and just walk around doing random quests while watching something else on my lap top. It's THAT boring.

Hope Witcher III finally wins me over because character building and looting is fucking fun as hell.

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Fredchuckdave

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That double post at the beginning of the thread is mesmerizing. Amalur is alright, just kinda loses steam halfway through.

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thomasnash

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Edited By thomasnash

@theacidskull said:

Finally built up the balls to finish the game, just so I could say that I beat the story. Look I'm a bit new to RPG's, but are side quests supposed to be this boring? I mean, I honesty turned off the sound and just walk around doing random quests while watching something else on my lap top. It's THAT boring.

Hope Witcher III finally wins me over because character building and looting is fucking fun as hell.

There's not a simple answer to this. The side quests in Amalur are exceptionally boring though.

I think all RPGs walk a line between how interesting the side quests are, the resources available to make them, and the volume of optional content that consumers expect out of these experiences. I think a lot of projects end up being stuffed with meaningless or boring side content where the resources are an issue, because the expectation with these games is that there will be a lot of it. Amalur is a really prime example of this kind of shovelling because the amount of content severely unbalances the game.

When I think back to some of my favourite RPG games, I think what really makes the quality of a games side content stand out is when the majority of it is built around thematic and geographical centres - preferably both. Fallout 3 has the issue of the volume of quests unbalancing the game (or would, if there as no level cap) but avoids the problem of it feeling meaningless because a lot of the time you discover a location, learn about a set of issues affecting that place, and then complete a sequence of quests (generally) revolving around that quest. This is a formula that holds with the old Infinity Engine games, with Dragon Age and with Mass Effect (slightly more guided by the main storyline). By contrast, Amalur has you roaming so far afield from the very start, and although quest lines are often linked to a storyline, they aren't often linked to a place in any meaningful way. It doesn't help that the design of each individual quest is often boring, boiling down in a very obvious way to "go here, kill dudes, kill bigger dude." Weirdly, the DLCs manage this much better, as they take you to smaller, more thematically consistent locations.

I would expect that the Witcher will be a much better experience for you. The Witcher 2 was absolutely one of the best games I've played for tying everything together in a way that makes it feel meaningful. Even the ones that are essentially the kill 5 rats quests, are rendered meaningful because of the lore of the universe and your character, and the fact that each one involved a "non-combat" portion (research, tracking) that enhanced those story elements.

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theacidskull

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@theacidskull said:

Finally built up the balls to finish the game, just so I could say that I beat the story. Look I'm a bit new to RPG's, but are side quests supposed to be this boring? I mean, I honesty turned off the sound and just walk around doing random quests while watching something else on my lap top. It's THAT boring.

Hope Witcher III finally wins me over because character building and looting is fucking fun as hell.

There's not a simple answer to this. The side quests in Amalur are exceptionally boring though.

I think all RPGs walk a line between how interesting the side quests are, the resources available to make them, and the volume of optional content that consumers expect out of these experiences. I think a lot of projects end up being stuffed with meaningless or boring side content where the resources are an issue, because the expectation with these games is that there will be a lot of it. Amalur is a really prime example of this kind of shovelling because the amount of content severely unbalances the game.

When I think back to some of my favourite RPG games, I think what really makes the quality of a games side content stand out is when the majority of it is built around thematic and geographical centres - preferably both. Fallout 3 has the issue of the volume of quests unbalancing the game (or would, if there as no level cap) but avoids the problem of it feeling meaningless because a lot of the time you discover a location, learn about a set of issues affecting that place, and then complete a sequence of quests (generally) revolving around that quest. This is a formula that holds with the old Infinity Engine games, with Dragon Age and with Mass Effect (slightly more guided by the main storyline). By contrast, Amalur has you roaming so far afield from the very start, and although quest lines are often linked to a storyline, they aren't often linked to a place in any meaningful way. It doesn't help that the design of each individual quest is often boring, boiling down in a very obvious way to "go here, kill dudes, kill bigger dude." Weirdly, the DLCs manage this much better, as they take you to smaller, more thematically consistent locations.

I would expect that the Witcher will be a much better experience for you. The Witcher 2 was absolutely one of the best games I've played for tying everything together in a way that makes it feel meaningful. Even the ones that are essentially the kill 5 rats quests, are rendered meaningful because of the lore of the universe and your character, and the fact that each one involved a "non-combat" portion (research, tracking) that enhanced those story elements.

Well, you make a lot of valid points, but thing is, the side quests wouldn't be a problem if the main story of the game was interesting, but Kingdoms of amalur didn't have an engaging story, hell it took me 2 years to beat the game, not because it was tough, but because for the first time in years, I was so bored with a game that I didn't want to really finish it. When a game feels atmospheric and engaging you tend to ignore the sometimes boring side quests because at least the main story-line was good or or at least the game created it's own identity in terms of fantasy worlds ,but amalur never gave me that feeling, I wasn't excited to explore new caves and areas because a lot of them looked the same(and empty) which is probably why I'd rate it as mediocre, and that's only thanks to it's fun combat system.

And I am very glad that you praise the Witcher so much, makes me even more eager and excited for it's release, It looks really meaningful and quite frankly cool, and I've heard that despite the fact that the main protagonist is an established one, you still basically write your own story by making many different choices. Plus, I've only seen Demo footage and it's already more interesting than the stale environments in amalur.

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thomasnash

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@theacidskull: yeah you're totally right! I did think about saying something to that effect but I was (honestly!) trying to keep from rambling too much.

I'm trying to sort of consider the way side quests are constructed in a vacuum, but the main narrative is really important to that, of course! There's a structural issue - if good side quests are (or can be) borne out of creating interesting locations with solid, coherent design, then part of the job of the main story is to guide you to those places and make you interested in going to there.

However, the more important thing that this kind of points to, is that as much as the side quests in a location need to have strong links to that location, each location needs to feed into the main story. I guess what I mean by that is that if your game has a story of monumental, cataclysmic events, the struggle being caused by those events needs to be visible. Obviously this means that the main story is kind of the base stone of an inverted pyramid of interesting quest design!

(Then again, this also doesn't always have to be true. While you can see this sort of design in Skyrim and Baldur's Gate 1, Baldur's Gate 2 is nothing like as cohesive as this and I still really like that. Then again you could say that Baldur's Gate is a bit closer to tabletop D&D - each location functions as a small module with one major quest line).

PS I agree that Amalur's main storyline was deeply uninspiring!

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theacidskull

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@thomasnash: Yeah, exactly! Not like each side quest has ALWAYS to add something to the main narrative, I mean, I'd be fine with it if it was just interesting and diverse, because that way it gives you a good look at the lore and the universe you are playing in! The quests in amalur are dull and they have you traveling to distance and different yet similar looking locations, and sometimes quests only involve talking lol, which not only kills the whole flow of the game but it makes the whole experience feel...disjoined.

Plus the lack of atmosphere and dull main story really don't help improve anything. I've only seen videos on the quests in skyrim and even watching that feels more exciting than running around like an idiot lol.

Funny thing is, this talk is oddly making me more excited for Witcher III :D

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thomasnash

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@theacidskull: I'm glad it's getting you pumped! If you have the wherewithal to do so, I'd really recommend playing the Witcher 2. Some people find the actual gameplay a bit sluggish - I don't know what you're used to - but it's a really involving game!

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theacidskull

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@theacidskull: I'm glad it's getting you pumped! If you have the wherewithal to do so, I'd really recommend playing the Witcher 2. Some people find the actual gameplay a bit sluggish - I don't know what you're used to - but it's a really involving game!

I ordered it a while back....it was region locked -_-

so glad Xbox One has gotten rid of that.

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thomasnash

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Oh bummer! Just out of interest where do you live that it didn't come out?

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Seppli

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Edited By Seppli

Amalur is a fine game, that could have been great if it had been tighter balanced. Action combat is kinda pointless when it's lacking in challenge. I still think the melding of character action game and sprawling exploration based RPG is a great idea, it just needs to be balanced more tightly, so it remains challenging throughout, and it certainly could have been more dense mechanically - i.e. I'd have enjoyed it more, if there was less talking, and a lot more fighting - less Elder Scrolls, more Diablo in 3rd person.

Also - here's a Dubstep montage somebody made of its Arena quest...

Loading Video...

P.S. I spent like 100 hours with the game, 60+ of those hours were spent listening to every line of dialog in the game. Yeah - I probably shouldn't have done that.

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theacidskull

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Edited By theacidskull

@thomasnash said:

Oh bummer! Just out of interest where do you live that it didn't come out?

Georgia(tbilisi), and bought my 360 In turkey.

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Yummylee

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Edited By Yummylee

Wuuh...

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theacidskull

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Yummylee

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@theacidskull: The blog is over 2 years old, so I was perplexed at finding myself receiving a bevy of notifications related to it.

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theacidskull

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@yummylee said:

@theacidskull: The blog is over 2 years old, so I was perplexed at finding myself receiving a bevy of notifications related to it.

Oh, that's kinda on me, it took me 2 years to beat the game lol :P