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    Red Dead Redemption

    Game » consists of 23 releases. Released May 18, 2010

    Red Dead Redemption is the spiritual successor to 2004's Red Dead Revolver, featuring a vibrant, open world set in the decline of the American Wild West. Players take on the role of former outlaw John Marston, who is forced to hunt down his former gang to regain his family.

    A Controversial Opinion? (Spoilers)

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    GunslingerPanda

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    Edited By GunslingerPanda

    So, I see all the love the last 1/4 or 1/5 of the game that Red Dead Redemption gets... it was dull. DULL.
     
    "Hey, you know thirty hours ago when we made you do all this mundane shit like herding cattle to get you to grips with the controls? Well, you're gonna spend the next 3ish hours doing that again!"
     
    No thank you, Rockstar. It was boring the first time around, I do not want to do it again. So why does this part of the game get so much love? I find it abysmal game design, to be completely honest. Is it because some people get a feeling of connection to John's wife and kid? I felt no connection as I was just so pissed off at having to do these boring jobs again. Or maybe (and this is total guesswork) they like seeing John the family man, working to support the family he's about to be seperated from? I didn't get a sense of that either. All I got a sense of was repetitive tedium.
     
    The very last half hour was kind of cool, though; protecting the farm as John before getting shot up, then getting revenge with Jack. But even that made ZERO sense. If the government just planned on killing Jack anyway, why send him back to his farm at all? Should have just shot him when he'd done his job. Probably would have been a more emotional moment, in fact; he'd worked tirelessly to be reunited with his family, only to never see them again. Still could have run with the whole revenge thing with Jack, too.
     
    It just shocks me that people are using this as an example of good storytelling in videogames when it's anything but. I get the impression that all those people know is videogames and have never watched a truly great movie or read a novel since school.
     
    The phrase "All the subtlety of a sledgehammer" comes to mind.
     
    P.S. This totally isn't a troll: If you love it, great. Fuck my opinion. Just wanted to open up some discussion on it.

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    GunslingerPanda

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    #1  Edited By GunslingerPanda

    So, I see all the love the last 1/4 or 1/5 of the game that Red Dead Redemption gets... it was dull. DULL.
     
    "Hey, you know thirty hours ago when we made you do all this mundane shit like herding cattle to get you to grips with the controls? Well, you're gonna spend the next 3ish hours doing that again!"
     
    No thank you, Rockstar. It was boring the first time around, I do not want to do it again. So why does this part of the game get so much love? I find it abysmal game design, to be completely honest. Is it because some people get a feeling of connection to John's wife and kid? I felt no connection as I was just so pissed off at having to do these boring jobs again. Or maybe (and this is total guesswork) they like seeing John the family man, working to support the family he's about to be seperated from? I didn't get a sense of that either. All I got a sense of was repetitive tedium.
     
    The very last half hour was kind of cool, though; protecting the farm as John before getting shot up, then getting revenge with Jack. But even that made ZERO sense. If the government just planned on killing Jack anyway, why send him back to his farm at all? Should have just shot him when he'd done his job. Probably would have been a more emotional moment, in fact; he'd worked tirelessly to be reunited with his family, only to never see them again. Still could have run with the whole revenge thing with Jack, too.
     
    It just shocks me that people are using this as an example of good storytelling in videogames when it's anything but. I get the impression that all those people know is videogames and have never watched a truly great movie or read a novel since school.
     
    The phrase "All the subtlety of a sledgehammer" comes to mind.
     
    P.S. This totally isn't a troll: If you love it, great. Fuck my opinion. Just wanted to open up some discussion on it.

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    deactivated-5fb7c57ae2335

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    @GunslingerPanda:  
    Going back to the farm was his Redemption.  He teaches his kid the skills he has learned throughout the entire game, sees his wife, only to be killed after just a few days (or whatever).  It is more emotionally impacting that you spend time with your family and get to see that they are human, rather than some invisible "carrot" dangled in front of John throughout the whole game, which you have absoloutely no emotional connection to.  Besides, everyone who has played a Rockstar game expected to never see the family, for them to be dead.  Nobody expected John to die. 
     
    John is an icon of the West, a dying animal.  A theme that is at sometimes not so subtly shoved in your face (yes, I'm looking at you, opening train ride) is that "civilization" is taking over the West.  It is a time now for suits, and sirs, and ma'ams, and government ruling over what was once wild, free, and beautiful.  WW1 is about to happen.  John dying is a symbol of the West being struck down in the end, the last shot, dying in the dust that it symbolizes. 
     
    Best explanation off the top of my head, without writing an essay.
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    deactivated-5fb7c57ae2335

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    I also wanted to add that I do see where you are coming from.  Yes, I fucking HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE rounding cattle up, they won't fucking stay in the GODDAMNED HERD.  But, again, it's passing the skills he's learned onto his son. 
     
    I just saw your edit note saying you're not a troll.  I'm sure you're not, we all have our own opinions. I hope my explanation at least helps you see the purpose of all of last 1/5 or so, if not like it. 
     
    I think that most games would end after John killed Dutch, or have John go on a revenge mission against the Bureau men because they tell him his family is dead.  Not so; Rockstar creates an emotional connection to the goal that you have been working towards for so long, instead of it being intangible, before taking it away from you.  It's making all your efforts futile not only after you have worked so hard for them, but after you have come to care about them (presumably).  Then John gets killed, which is pretty fucking emotionally devestating.

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    GunslingerPanda

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    #4  Edited By GunslingerPanda
    @InfamousBIG: See, I got all of that, I just wasn't into it in the slightest. I just couldn't get connected to it.
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    borodin

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    #5  Edited By borodin

     I dunno, whenever people take about this there's the background issue of whether you're comparing the games story to other games stories, or to stories in books/tv/film/interpretive dance/mime etc. If you're comparing Red Dead's story to other games I think it does pretty well, and I was totally one of the people who really liked the down-shift in gears the last part of the game was. After many many many hours of running around killing stuff I didn't get bored of 2 or 3 hours of not doing that so much - I also really liked how much they managed to do with the characters in such a little amount of time.  
     
    I'd spent  a fair number of braincells hating on the fact they didn't let you fool around with anyone (whilst dangling whores around you, almost goading you) because Marston was a married man, well, what do I care? You don't even let me meet his wife so why would I care about 'cheating' on her? But then they *did* show me his wife and suddenly it clicked for me and made sense. I think without that last segment you would lose a lot of the context it gives you for the things you're doing before that. 
     
    But to get back to the games vs. every other story telling medium, if you're just saying it compares poorly to these other mediums, then yeah but I think that's pretty much taken for granted by a lot of people and it's still a young medium compared to it's rivals in that regard. But if you're saying it has a bad story compared to other games then I can only say it was a lot better than I expected and way better than many I've played?    

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    lilbigsupermario

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    #6  Edited By lilbigsupermario

    It's not the best story told in a video game, but it's one of the good ones out there. :)
     
    John getting his redemption or going back to his family has several reasons.  One, as a game, it definitely is required for players to get attached to the situation and feel for John as being happy for getting his family back and at the same time, get that sense of sympathy for being happy at first, then losing it in the end.  It is a somewhat typical movie-scenario.  Second, as for the story, it's the government's way of saying "we did our part of the deal"; however, since the deal is done, they can now hunt Marston down for one simple reason, he's still an outlaw, it cleans up the government's name.  It's treacherous, but it made sense to clear things up for the government.  If they killed John right after he killed Dutch, then it just made them look like a prick for not doing their side of the deal and of course, people would blame the government.  And I think it would be sucky to have an ending where John doesn't even get to meet his family in the end.  I mean, everyone wants at least a little bit of happiness first right?  And it makes sense for the epilogue to happen because during that the time John gets his family back, he regains Jack's respect for him as a father.
     
    I didn't find the game dull, I found every activity fun actually even when travelling from one town to the other by horse.  But it is your opinion if you found it dull.  I guess it's just a preference, maybe sandbox games aren't really your type?  It received a lot of praise from a lot of people because for a sandbox game, it is a good game that somewhat made sense for almost the whole plot :)

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    HandsomeDead

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    #7  Edited By HandsomeDead

    The problem wasn't in what it was asking you to do or even how it did it but that the game mechanics meant it was a complete repetition of the start of the game. You go, you shoot and come back. If anything, that was the game's key problem: It'd give you something interesting to do or introduce you to some cool characters and then you just had to shoot your way to the end of the level.

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    Yummylee

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    #8  Edited By Yummylee

    It wasn't my favourite segment of the game but I still enjoyed its symbolic nature to the story. It was more about pushing forward the RDR tale than giving you rewarding gameplay during John back on his ranch.

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    lilbigsupermario

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    #9  Edited By lilbigsupermario
    @HandsomeDead said:
    " The problem wasn't in what it was asking you to do or even how it did it but that the game mechanics meant it was a complete repetition of the start of the game. You go, you shoot and come back. If anything, that was the game's key problem: It'd give you something interesting to do or introduce you to some cool characters and then you just had to shoot your way to the end of the level. "
    Doesn't every action game have that formula?  You start the game, you meet cool characters then you shoot your way through to the end of the game?  hehe!
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    SpiralStairs

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    #10  Edited By SpiralStairs

    Actually, I think the parts leading up to the end are rather dull. The game never really makes you care for John. He's an emotionless killer who won't stop rambling about his family. I wish they had made him into a more interesting character. He's cool at first, but after 20 hours of seeing him act "tough" and "angry" it gets kind of annoying.
     
    The ending is a good idea, and the story's not bad, but it didn't do enough to keep hooked.

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    Jedted

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    #11  Edited By Jedted

    I actually enjoyed herding cattle during those two missions.  But then again i also enjoyed doing the chores in Bully so to each his own i geuss. 
     
    When i played the game for the first time i was surprised to hear John say that he had a family, at that point i never expected to actually meet his wife and son but i'm glad you did because i think it really added to the story.  Although during all the Ranching missions i could help but think "this has gotta be leading up to some tragic ending".  Personnally i thought it would be the other way around where his entire family is killed and John sets of to avenge them but letting Jack be the one to avenge his father's death was even better. 
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    ThePhantomnaut

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    #13  Edited By ThePhantomnaut
    @GunslingerPanda said:
    "The very last half hour was kind of cool, though; protecting the farm as John before getting shot up, then getting revenge with Jack. But even that made ZERO sense. If the government just planned on killing Jack anyway, why send him back to his farm at all? Should have just shot him when he'd done his job. Probably would have been a more emotional moment, in fact; he'd worked tirelessly to be reunited with his family, only to never see them again. Still could have run with the whole revenge thing with Jack, too."
    Because the government doesn't feel satisfied and think John can be a threat despite being an aid. They don't want to take chances despite their delay.

    I always think of the last part represents old age leading to death imo. Old people might have to relearn things like a kid would when young. The game goes back to basics but does it in different contexts. It serves as an important part of helping Jack survive as well as foreshadow the inevitable.
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    AhmadMetallic

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    #14  Edited By AhmadMetallic
    @InfamousBIG said:
    " Going back to the farm was his Redemption.  He teaches his kid the skills he has learned throughout the entire game, sees his wife, only to be killed after just a few days (or whatever).  It is more emotionally impacting that you spend time with your family and get to see that they are human, rather than some invisible "carrot" dangled in front of John throughout the whole game, which you have absoloutely no emotional connection to.  Besides, everyone who has played a Rockstar game expected to never see the family, for them to be dead.  Nobody expected John to die. 
     
    John is an icon of the West, a dying animal.  A theme that is at sometimes not so subtly shoved in your face (yes, I'm looking at you, opening train ride) is that "civilization" is taking over the West.  It is a time now for suits, and sirs, and ma'ams, and government ruling over what was once wild, free, and beautiful.  WW1 is about to happen.  John dying is a symbol of the West being struck down in the end, the last shot, dying in the dust that it symbolizes.  "
    that was beautiful ..
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    ryno9881

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    #15  Edited By ryno9881
    @Ahmad_Metallic said:
    " @InfamousBIG said:
    " Going back to the farm was his Redemption.  He teaches his kid the skills he has learned throughout the entire game, sees his wife, only to be killed after just a few days (or whatever).  It is more emotionally impacting that you spend time with your family and get to see that they are human, rather than some invisible "carrot" dangled in front of John throughout the whole game, which you have absoloutely no emotional connection to.  Besides, everyone who has played a Rockstar game expected to never see the family, for them to be dead.  Nobody expected John to die. 
     
    John is an icon of the West, a dying animal.  A theme that is at sometimes not so subtly shoved in your face (yes, I'm looking at you, opening train ride) is that "civilization" is taking over the West.  It is a time now for suits, and sirs, and ma'ams, and government ruling over what was once wild, free, and beautiful.  WW1 is about to happen.  John dying is a symbol of the West being struck down in the end, the last shot, dying in the dust that it symbolizes.  "
    that was beautiful .. "
    yeah, you just said everything that I couldn't put to words. nailed it.

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