ENDING: Who do you prefer? *MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS*

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#1 Edited by EgoCheck616 (782 posts) -

Well, I just wrapped up the game. I won't go into the plot because then this thread will never end.   

I'm just curious, though. Which character do you prefer to play as? Jack (Son) or John (Dad)? I know it pretty much all comes down to voice acting being the main difference, but does anyone out there prefer Jack's more "young, outgoing" voice or John's "wise, dude has seen some mess" voice?

#2 Posted by one_2nd (2359 posts) -
@EgoCheck616: I prefer Jack because his character just seems cooler. John was too cliche. Jack's a beast. 
#3 Posted by Jackel2072 (2236 posts) -

John's Death hit me hard. plus i loved his wit. so John.

#4 Posted by Vash10 (35 posts) -
@Jackel2072: 
 I ended up replaying the last mission three times trying to avoid John's death.
 
For whatever reason I find myself reloading the save before the final mission and using that to do my messing around, I'm not a huge fan of Jack. I think it may have to do with the fact that I didn't spend all game will him, just the last two hours or so.
#5 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3555 posts) -

I would think a good guy character should like and appreciate his horse, so Jack saying crap like "work you damn nag!" in that awful voice of his killed any enjoyment I got from him, outside of playing the mission leading up to the credits.  If he said the same things John said while on a horse, I'd be fine with Jack.

#6 Posted by Capum15 (4811 posts) -
@Jackel2072 said:
" John's Death hit me hard. plus i loved his wit. so John. "
This.
@Vash10 said:
" @Jackel2072:   I ended up replaying the last mission three times trying to avoid John's death.  For whatever reason I find myself reloading the save before the final mission and using that to do my messing around, I'm not a huge fan of Jack. I think it may have to do with the fact that I didn't spend all game will him, just the last two hours or so. "

And this. I played as John for some 30+ hours, and to suddenly be forced to play as Jack? Yeah, not happening. Probably going to restart the game or something. Also, something about Jack just puts me off.
#7 Posted by Dustpan (1690 posts) -

I like both characters.

#8 Posted by yyZiggurat (1012 posts) -

I didn't really like John's voice when I saw the first trailer but I grew to love it.  I'm sure it will be the same with Jack.  I and did the facial hair.

#9 Edited by NickLott (792 posts) -

I really like John. I thought Jack's voice acting was a bit annoying where i mostly hear it on the horse to the point where after credits rolled, I reloaded a save from when John was still alive and I'm using that to do all my side stuff. His voice actually reminds of Joseph from King of the Hill when he starts going through puberty.
 
Also, Jack's facial hair sucks.

#10 Edited by EgoCheck616 (782 posts) -
@nicklott:  @Capum15 said:

" @Jackel2072 said:

" John's Death hit me hard. plus i loved his wit. so John. "
This.
@Vash10 said:
" @Jackel2072:   I ended up replaying the last mission three times trying to avoid John's death.  For whatever reason I find myself reloading the save before the final mission and using that to do my messing around, I'm not a huge fan of Jack. I think it may have to do with the fact that I didn't spend all game will him, just the last two hours or so. "
And this. I played as John for some 30+ hours, and to suddenly be forced to play as Jack? Yeah, not happening. Probably going to restart the game or something. Also, something about Jack just puts me off. "
What puts me off about Jack is the guy acts like a complete douche through most of your experiences with him and then you're suddenly expected to BE him? It kinda bothers me that for John being as epic as a role as he was they just kind of pushed him aside at the end. It felt like such a last minute decision. 
 
I mean, you witness John go through complete hell in order to protect his family. Entering Mexico is one of THE BEST moments in that game. It made you feel like you were on this epic journey and it was never going to end. Then what happens? - Hes shot. - Grave. - Play as kid. - Stuck as kid after credits. When you're playing as John at his ranch and it forces you to do all of those chores I definitely got the impression that the wife / son would have been killed and he would live on with the thought of vengeance running through his blood. After what we got? I kinda wish that had actually happened.
#11 Posted by Cornman89 (1579 posts) -

John.
 
Jack has insufficient facial hair.

#12 Posted by HistoryInRust (6274 posts) -

The impulse to kill John is a bold one, but a good one, I think. That's sort of the way the whole narrative had been moving up until that point, and there was no reason for the homestead stuff to continue if some cataclysmic event wasn't impending.  
 
I'm resistant to playing as Jack, though, kind of like most of the posters are. We get Jack's conflict--he wants to mature and he's struggling to reckon with the idea of being like his father, whose masculinity he wants to emulate in some fashion--but we don't see Jack fully confront or move past that conflict to embrace him as a serious character before we're thrust into his boots. In fact, a lot of his mannerisms seem to show he's still struggling with this age-maturity issue. Which, considering Jack is only 19 when the game ends, makes a good deal of sense, but it's hard to relate to that sort of character on that basis alone, especially at the terminus of some sweeping, epic narrative arc like the one in this game.  
 
I like that John dies. It's heartbreaking, because his character is so good. But I didn't care a lot about Jack, outside of John's desire for his well-being. Certainly not enough to really empathize with him as a character through which I engage in this world. 

#13 Posted by EgoCheck616 (782 posts) -
@Sir_Ragnarok said:
" The impulse to kill John is a bold one, but a good one, I think. That's sort of the way the whole narrative had been moving up until that point, and there was no reason for the homestead stuff to continue if some cataclysmic event wasn't impending.  
 
I'm resistant to playing as Jack, though, kind of like most of the posters are. We get Jack's conflict--he wants to mature and he's struggling to reckon with the idea of being like his father, whose masculinity he wants to emulate in some fashion--but we don't see Jack fully confront or move past that conflict to embrace him as a serious character before we're thrust into his boots. In fact, a lot of his mannerisms seem to show he's still struggling with this age-maturity issue. Which, considering Jack is only 19 when the game ends, makes a good deal of sense, but it's hard to relate to that sort of character on that basis alone, especially at the terminus of some sweeping, epic narrative arc like the one in this game.  
 
I like that John dies. It's heartbreaking, because his character is so good. But I didn't care a lot about Jack, outside of John's desire for his well-being. Certainly not enough to really empathize with him as a character through which I engage in this world.  "
I know it would be very tedious to have to relearn all of those mechanics, but I can't help but be a little put off by the fact that you play Jack in a form where he has all of the same abilities and skills as his father. I liked how they transitioned you into Jack, it was a total "wtf?" moment, but it would have been interesting to see how he trained himself over those past 10 years. 
 
They could have done something like God of War has done in every single game. Or maybe even a montage like the ol' Rocky days?
#14 Posted by HistoryInRust (6274 posts) -
@EgoCheck616 said:
 I liked how they transitioned you into Jack, it was a total "wtf?" moment
Is there a concept page on Giant Bomb for stuff like this? Disembodied Point-of-View or something? Been a lot of it going on in mainstream games as of late. 
#15 Posted by Cold_Wolven (2211 posts) -

John, I just grew too attached to him. He was rough and took no shit and after watching a few cutscenes involving strangers and Jack, I just don't get the same vibe from him. I'm not much of a fan for the voice acting for Jack, doesn't sound man enough. It seems like this is a bit of a controversial ending as not a lot of people care for playing as Jack and I swear if I hear "WORK YA DAMN NAG!" one more time when riding a horse I'll throw an imaginary fit!
Online
#16 Posted by Gooddoggy (409 posts) -

I'm willing to accept having to play as Jack for the sake of the story.  The government coming after John was pretty heavily foreshadowed, and I think having him die at the end was a bold choice, and the right one.  Very "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid."  If they had killed John and then let you keep playing as him after the story ended, it would have been totally lame.

#17 Posted by CandleJakk (766 posts) -

I preferred playing as John by far, and thought Jack was nothing but an arrogant little shit when I was doing his missions.
 
However, it makes more sense from a design point of view, from the story arc, to play as Jack. Personally, I thought they could have ended it happily at the 'first ending', and left you in peace to roam around and finish everything up, but by forcing you to complete those last few missions on the homestead, and ultimately John's death, it would be a bit of a fucking pisser if you had to restart the game to get that 100% achievement.
 
By keeping John alive, just to do that, after that final standoff, ultimately detracts from the point the game makes. It's refreshing to see the continuation, frankly.

#18 Posted by Dustpan (1690 posts) -

All these retarded complaints about Jack are starting to annoy the hell out of me.

#19 Posted by Jackel2072 (2236 posts) -
@EgoCheck616 said:

" @nicklott:  @Capum15 said:

" @Jackel2072 said:

" John's Death hit me hard. plus i loved his wit. so John. "
This.
@Vash10 said:
" @Jackel2072:   I ended up replaying the last mission three times trying to avoid John's death.  For whatever reason I find myself reloading the save before the final mission and using that to do my messing around, I'm not a huge fan of Jack. I think it may have to do with the fact that I didn't spend all game will him, just the last two hours or so. "
And this. I played as John for some 30+ hours, and to suddenly be forced to play as Jack? Yeah, not happening. Probably going to restart the game or something. Also, something about Jack just puts me off. "
What puts me off about Jack is the guy acts like a complete douche through most of your experiences with him and then you're suddenly expected to BE him? It kinda bothers me that for John being as epic as a role as he was they just kind of pushed him aside at the end. It felt like such a last minute decision.  I mean, you witness John go through complete hell in order to protect his family. Entering Mexico is one of THE BEST moments in that game. It made you feel like you were on this epic journey and it was never going to end. Then what happens? - Hes shot. - Grave. - Play as kid. - Stuck as kid after credits. When you're playing as John at his ranch and it forces you to do all of those chores I definitely got the impression that the wife / son would have been killed and he would live on with the thought of vengeance running through his blood. After what we got? I kinda wish that had actually happened. "
 

here is the thing. yes i would much rather play as john. and when i go back to get 100% im going to load up john and do as much as i can before he dies. However. In terms of a story twist, FUCKING A! it was just great. Rockstar really showed off the power of video game story telling with red dead. You fall in love with john over the course of 30 + hours and then he is brutally and unfairly gunned down. so when you go to get your revenge with Jack it's so bitter sweet. it turned an already great story into an amazing one for me. and that connection and remorse i felt when John was killed is only something a video game can deliver. Rockstar and the Houser brothers continue to set the bar high. 
 
P.S.
 
little side note here. Jack would have been a tad bit better to play with, if they just gave him a different voice actor in his adult version. The whiny 15 year voice actor did not fit the mood as well as it could have been. Also he kinda looks like Johnny Depp from pirates IMO...
 

#20 Edited by Death_Burnout (3792 posts) -

The thing that really bothers me about it all is that the person who spoiled the game for me on another forum was actually right, but i convinced myself it wasn't true because the concept of playing as his son was so crazy to me. When it happened i was so so so shocked, yeah his death hit me hard too...after all i had been through as John, so heartbreaking.
 
I gotta give em credit for doing it, it is very bold, and it was extremely well done and extremely powerful. But it comes at a price because, i also really hate Jack of what i have played of him so far, that voice is so annoying to me, i suppose i could Fallout 3 or Saints Row it and just load it up and not die, but it don't feel right to me

#21 Edited by MiniPato (2721 posts) -

I wouldn't mind playing as Jack if he wasn't such a jerk to my horse. "Let's GO! LEEEEEET'S GO!" "WORK WORK!" 
 
I figure I'll ask here since I don't want to start another ending thread. 
 
Do you guys think John deserved to die? I mean, yeah, he did do what the government asked and did some good deeds along the way. But he still killed, robbed, and held people ransom. There might have been some Robin Hood philosophy, but he was still an outlaw. Even Bonnie said that there's nothing more pathetic than a man who found a way to justify doing terrible things. He robbed other people of their family and might have even destroyed some by killing fathers and such. I'm not saying that Ross was right in what he did, but John was destined to die by Ross' hand or not. It's very easy to think of John as an innocent victim, but, from what other characters had said, John killed, robbed and kidnapped hundreds of people.

#22 Posted by Sin4profit (2907 posts) -

I prefure John but now, with Jack, i've gone full-on outlaw going for the "Friends in high places" achievement...lemme tell you, you get use to him real quick when he becomes a murderous scoundrel soiled by what the world did to his family...at least that's what i'm injecting into the character...really i'm just after that achievement.

#23 Posted by Sin4profit (2907 posts) -
@MiniPato:  Deserved it or not he was destin to die. I've said it on another thread, Ross's job was to kill the ENTIRE gang, John was just the only member with the heart string (his family) that Ross could pull to get help with his wet work. I beleive John killed himself in the end, he chose death in that moment...he knew that was the only way that his family would be safe.
#24 Posted by yyZiggurat (1012 posts) -

Has anyone tried the Gentleman's Attire with Jack?  hahaha, that ponytail.

#25 Posted by EgoCheck616 (782 posts) -
@JustTheDoctor said:
" All these retarded complaints about Jack are starting to annoy the hell out of me. "
Notice how I started the thread without an opinion. Just a question of what other people thought about each character. 
This is something you've failed to do. 
#26 Edited by DoctorTran (1544 posts) -

I'm actually starting to enjoy Jack. Some of the stuff he says amuses me... like when he's skinning an animal "Just like Dad showed me." or "I really must be a Marston" when he's in a shoot out.  Or the random "I'M JOHN MARSTONS SON!"

#27 Posted by Dustpan (1690 posts) -
@doublezeroduck: Facial hair? give me a break.
#28 Posted by Dustpan (1690 posts) -
@EgoCheck616:  What exactly gave you the idea that I was singling you out? I'm just talking in general about these complaints. I've seen them brought up on multiple threads.    
#29 Posted by NinjaHunter (972 posts) -

I prefer John's voice and face more than I do Jack's. I pretty much went through the entire game without putting on the bandanna and now I always have it on.  I can deal with Jack's voice but something is just off about his face.

#30 Posted by Kahoona (223 posts) -

I think they should have made the story carry on longer when you play as Jack allowing you to actually latch on to him more.

#31 Edited by Death_Burnout (3792 posts) -
@Kahoona said:

" I think they should have made the story carry on longer when you play as Jack allowing you to actually latch on to him more. "

Definitely, perhaps they will do a DLC episode doing that...the remember my family mission was slowly doing that i thought, but it was over quick.
 
Edit: on second thought probably not...i dont think you could show that publicly without spoiling it for people.
#32 Posted by Piglet (128 posts) -
@doublezeroduck: I really thought the grizzly incident was going to give Jack some facial scars......but alas.
#33 Posted by DaemonicGrim (184 posts) -

I like both characters but differently. 
 
I think narrative wise the ending and the transition between characters was wonderful. It makes the story almost beautiful, keeping John alive after everything he had been through (in game and previously in the story) would almost have been too simple. I really got to like John as I played the game but towards the end his lack of sympathy for the uncle character really started to grate on me and I found myself disliking him for it a bit. I didn't like Jack as a child but I can understand why he was portrayed the way he was: because that's what teenagers are bloody like! I was, other people certainly still are, it's nature, something to prove but not the ability nor means to do so and always resenting your parents for being overprotective. Grown up jack is a much better character than young jack, he looks pretty cool and the gameplay is unchanged. The only sincere complaint that I would acknowledge is him shouting at his horse every couple of seconds, that does make me wish the horse would drop him and trample him to death. I think the thing about John that people loved was the old grizzled and experienced look whereas Jack is still young and fresh. Lets face it, fast forward another 20 years and he'll be his fathers son down to the half shredded face and grit in his throat.

#34 Posted by Kahoona (223 posts) -
@Death_Burnout said:
" @Kahoona said:

" I think they should have made the story carry on longer when you play as Jack allowing you to actually latch on to him more. "

Definitely, perhaps they will do a DLC episode doing that...the remember my family mission was slowly doing that i thought, but it was over quick.  Edit: on second thought probably not...i dont think you could show that publicly without spoiling it for people. "
That, and Jack's main motivation has already been used up.  As it is, it seems like the Jack part of the ending was a rushed idea that they didn't have much time to put in to it.
#35 Posted by yyZiggurat (1012 posts) -
@Kahoona said:
" That, and Jack's main motivation has already been used up.  As it is, it seems like the Jack part of the ending was a rushed idea that they didn't have much time to put in to it. "
I disagree.  I think that killing Ross gave the audience a sense of closure.  How fucked up would it be if he just got away after killing John?
#36 Posted by Connelo (130 posts) -

John. Without a doubt. I got really annoyed at the game when I had to play as his kinda irritating son.

#37 Edited by Kyreo (4600 posts) -
@EgoCheck616 said:

" Well, I just wrapped up the game. I won't go into the plot because then this thread will never end.   I'm just curious, though. Which character do you prefer to play as? Jack (Son) or John (Dad)? I know it pretty much all comes down to voice acting being the main difference, but does anyone out there prefer Jack's more "young, outgoing" voice or John's "wise, dude has seen some mess" voice? "

John.  The voice acting is LEAGUES better.  Jacks dialogue is not as witty or engaging either... 
 
@JustTheDoctor: Though I do like Jack a lot.  Just not as much as John...
#38 Edited by Death_Burnout (3792 posts) -

Gotta say, Jack is growing on me, but nothing can replace the hole in my heart with John.

#39 Edited by EgoCheck616 (782 posts) -

I feel really strange going through the rest of the game for trophies while having to hear Jack's voice screeching at the horse to "go faster". Now I just turn on my music and drown it out. Everything I enjoyed about RDR pretty much disappears at that point. All I've got left is some whiney little kid and a bunch of cougars to knife. 
 
Well, at least the multiplayer holds up.

#40 Posted by Kahoona (223 posts) -
@HomemadeZiggurat said:
" @Kahoona said:
" That, and Jack's main motivation has already been used up.  As it is, it seems like the Jack part of the ending was a rushed idea that they didn't have much time to put in to it. "
I disagree.  I think that killing Ross gave the audience a sense of closure.  How fucked up would it be if he just got away after killing John? "
I just wish there was more to it than go from point A to B to C.  They could have expanded on him tracking Ross down and Ross running scared because of it.
#41 Posted by yyZiggurat (1012 posts) -
@Kahoona:   Maybe we'll get DLC where Jack has to track down and kill Ross' partner, who is now the head of the FBI at D.C.
#42 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10473 posts) -

I knew within a minute of playing as Jack that I liked John better. I hate playing games as young people, like Raiden in MGS2. Young people annoy me. ;)

#43 Posted by EgoCheck616 (782 posts) -
@HomemadeZiggurat said:
" @Kahoona:   Maybe we'll get DLC where Jack has to track down and kill Ross' partner, who is now the head of the FBI at D.C. "
Wouldn't that mean Jack would have to go to D.C.? Seems a little much for DLC.
#44 Posted by Redbullet685 (6025 posts) -

John is awesome. Jack should have gotten mauled by that bear.

#45 Posted by yyZiggurat (1012 posts) -
@EgoCheck616: I was half joking.
#46 Posted by warxsnake (2635 posts) -

John 
 
the other one yells too much

#47 Posted by s7evn (1072 posts) -

John's death was really surprising but I like Jack, he's a cool guy to play as.

#48 Posted by Donos (1193 posts) -

I prefer John, because Jack's stock outfit causes significant clipping issues. Yeah.
 
On the other hand, I get a weird Jack Sparrow vibe from Jack, which isn't a bad thing. Or entirely explicible.

#49 Posted by J0n3s1 (295 posts) -

John.

#50 Edited by EgoCheck616 (782 posts) -
@HomemadeZiggurat said:

" @Kahoona said:

" That, and Jack's main motivation has already been used up.  As it is, it seems like the Jack part of the ending was a rushed idea that they didn't have much time to put in to it. "

I disagree.  I think that killing Ross gave the audience a sense of closure.  How fucked up would it be if he just got away after killing John? "
Jack killing Ross left me with VERY little closure. I still feel a little bummed out by the events when I'm playing through the open world stuff for trophies. It just seems so.. stale. Everyone I enjoyed having in the game is now gone, even the protagonist himself. I mean, It took a newspaper article for us to find out that Landon Ricketts was dead.
 
I feel like they were planning on having the wife / son die shortly after John got them back, leaving him with the urge to kill everyone involved. Even those who were in Washington. However they felt it was too much of a cliché and decided to swap the idea out for this "dude's son kills guy. credits roll" conclusion. 
 
The big giveaway is the fact that the final mission before the credits isn't even technically a story mission. It is presented to the player as a "?" stranger mission.

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