Please boycott this game

#151 Posted by louiedog (2335 posts) -
@Stephen_Von_Cloud: We'll see. It could be the lock on system is only about 30% reliable, it crashes every 20 minutes, save games corrupt easily, the missions are extremely repetitive, and there are several game breaking bugs that force you to start over. Obviously that's a bit over the top, but those are things that wouldn't show up in the extremely awesome video they released. I was stoked for the game after that, but as usual I'll wait for the impressions before I bite.
#152 Posted by Drebin_893 (2915 posts) -

Oh, dear.....

#153 Posted by JokerClown88 (1051 posts) -

Sadly its called crunch time.  That kind of crap happens twice a year here where I work.  Tax season and in October.  I work as the IT guy at an accounting firm, so its extra time.
#154 Posted by ProfessorEss (7376 posts) -

I've worked in enough similar situations to know that if it wasn't bad enough to quit - it obviously wasn't bad enough to quit.
 
The fact that this "news" is coming out says more to me about a product being developed by people who may not "love it", more than anything. I think you'd find a lot of games are made under these extreme circumstances the only difference is the employees love what they're doing so much that they are will to put that (eh-hem) blood. sweat and tears into it. That's why almost every game that's good enough for me to see the end credits has a "Thanks to the incredibly patient families of" section in them.
 
 If the game turns out bad I'll pass, because it's bad, but I'm not gonna boycott it over some alleged "poor working conditions". 
 
I could be way off base here, but I've (understandably) grown wary of internet news.

#155 Posted by ZmillA (2271 posts) -
@ProfessorEss said:
" I've worked in enough similar situations to know that if it wasn't bad enough to quit - it obviously wasn't bad enough to quit.   The fact that this "news" is coming out says more to me about a product being developed by people who may not "love it", more than anything. I think you'd find a lot of games are made under these extreme circumstances the only difference is the employees love what they're doing so much that they are will to put that (eh-hem) blood. sweat and tears into it. That's why almost every game that's good enough for me to see the end credits has a "Thanks to the incredibly patient families of" section in them.   If the game turns out bad I'll pass, because it's bad, but I'm not gonna boycott it over some alleged "poor working conditions".   I could be way off base here, but I've (understandably) grown wary of internet news. "
smart man
#156 Posted by chstupid (806 posts) -

If I worked for that many hours I would be pissed if nobody bought my game
#157 Posted by luce (4045 posts) -

"an organic disaster of the most epic proportions" 
 
oh no..this was my most anticipated game of '10..
 
does this mean the game will suck?

#158 Posted by louiedog (2335 posts) -
@luce: It doesn't mean it will suck. But, as your most anticipated game, you'll likely be disappointed because it won't be as good as you were hoping.
 
The good news is you still have plenty of time to get really bummed out about the game. That way, when it ships you'll be happy no matter what the quality.
#159 Posted by Stephen_Von_Cloud (1530 posts) -
@ProfessorEss said:
" I've worked in enough similar situations to know that if it wasn't bad enough to quit - it obviously wasn't bad enough to quit.   The fact that this "news" is coming out says more to me about a product being developed by people who may not "love it", more than anything. I think you'd find a lot of games are made under these extreme circumstances the only difference is the employees love what they're doing so much that they are will to put that (eh-hem) blood. sweat and tears into it. That's why almost every game that's good enough for me to see the end credits has a "Thanks to the incredibly patient families of" section in them.   If the game turns out bad I'll pass, because it's bad, but I'm not gonna boycott it over some alleged "poor working conditions".   I could be way off base here, but I've (understandably) grown wary of internet news. "
Yeah good point.  What is joystiq's source here?  I mean, one disgruntled employee could cause this whole thing with how blogs work.
#160 Posted by Djeffers03 (2545 posts) -

1 this is going to fail and 2 buying the game is the best way of making them feel like the work is worth it, if no-one buys it the work will have been for nothing

#161 Edited by CptBedlam (4451 posts) -

I think boycotting the game would actually make the situation worse for the employees.
 
btw: Did anyone who is considering a boycott of the game also think of working conditions in countries where most of your clothes are stitched together? I suggest you boycott those as well.

#162 Posted by Red (5995 posts) -

It's up to them to decide whether they want to boycott their treatment. Not up to us for not wanting a product they worked too hard on.

#163 Posted by superfoot (50 posts) -
@slacker4life said:
"if they've been working on it for 4 years and now need to crunch this hard maybe they should have done better to begin with. "

Without more information about what's happened during the 4 years you mentioned it's hard to say who's at fault. 
From my own experience sometime's it's the team messing up and other times management change's their mind every six months what they want the game to be.
#164 Posted by Mrnitropb (2090 posts) -
@buzz_killington said:
" @ADTR_ZERO: So you're happy people being forced to work 16 hours a day and 6 days a week with no extra pay to make a damned game? "
Fuck you, I work like that for no extra pay to make fucking Margaritas. My job doesn't even give me a chair. 
The reason I put up with this, is that it beats the alternative, like my spouse who has been unemployed since June, can't get unemployment benefits, and has nearly $175K in student loans. Eat my asshole.
#165 Posted by Barrock (3533 posts) -

I'll definitely be boycotting it. If it sucks.

#166 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -

I'm starting to get the feeling that a few disgruntled people at Rockstar are trying to take down the entire operation.  The latest crazy stuff has some fool at Rockstar ranting about how some people fucked up so badly on Midnight Club LA, it was a fine game overall, it just didn't get good reviews because of the challenge level and the sales were very poor.  Basically all these latest complaints are from business people who want more profits.  It's truly strange, I think some jackass must be trying to make a power play.
 
As long as the game turns out nearly as good as it seems to be so far, I'll be picking it up.

#167 Posted by clarke0 (1077 posts) -

Asking gamers to take a stand and boycott anything is hopeless. Gamers have to be some of the most willing people to blindly let corporations rail them in the ass. Look at the continued success of GameStop.

#168 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Diamond said:
" I'm starting to get the feeling that a few disgruntled people at Rockstar are trying to take down the entire operation.  The latest crazy stuff has some fool at Rockstar ranting about how some people fucked up so badly on Midnight Club LA, it was a fine game overall, it just didn't get good reviews because of the challenge level and the sales were very poor.  Basically all these latest complaints are from business people who want more profits.  It's truly strange, I think some jackass must be trying to make a power play. As long as the game turns out nearly as good as it seems to be so far, I'll be picking it up. "
That doesn't make much sense, people don't act as jackasses to make power plays.  I think it's sad that someones personal risk in sharing the inner workings of a business few actually get to see or know is being discounted so quickly.  Similar stories are told throughout the games industry on a reasonably regular basis.
 
The fact of the matter is that we have seen many gaming brands hire and then fire whole teams once a project is over.  They then pass on the fully developed IP to be handled by outsourced development teams who will work for less and never ask for profit share deals.  LucasArts has done this at least 4 times in a completely visible and callous fashion with the most recent round of firings happening post Force Unleashed's release as has EA many times, most recently when they acquired Playfish for webgame centric developmentLucasArts spun these firings as proof that they were fiscally sound and that it was to do with product life cycles.   Rockstar are certainly not EA or LucasArts in size or scope but I frankly wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be true.  
 
I don't think boycotting the game will serve anyone in the long term but there definitely does need to be some oversight in the games industry.  It is a very large business sector and has almost outpaced Hollywood in budget spend and earnings over the last two decades.  This hiring and firing practice must not continue unabated and this will only happen with some regulation put into action.
#169 Posted by Cheapoz (1064 posts) -

This boycott is easy to support.

#170 Posted by itsVASH (172 posts) -

What you need to understand is that this is the nature of the industry, the workers know this, in order for developers to receive money to develop their games they need to meet deadlines which may not be achievable without these type of hours.  Now since their investors are probably demanding for certain deadlines could be the reason why they are working such harsh hours, but if they don't meet the deadlines they will not be given any more money to develop the game, which is probably why their working such harsh hours, or basicly its "crunch time" for these developers. Now your saying boycott the game, if you want to help these people you want people to buy the game, the more well known these developers become and the success of their product will allow them to have more lenient deadlines that dont demand such harsh working conditions. I understand that your coming from a position that you want to help these guys out, but what your suggesting would only hurt them even more. 

#171 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
That doesn't make much sense, people don't act as jackasses to make power plays.  I think it's sad that someones personal risk in sharing the inner workings of a business few actually get to see or know is being discounted so quickly.  Similar stories are told throughout the games industry on a reasonably regular basis.
 
The fact of the matter is that we have seen many gaming brands hire and then fire whole teams once a project is over.  They then pass on the fully developed IP to be handled by outsourced development teams who will work for less and never ask for profit share deals.  LucasArts has done this at least 4 times in a completely visible and callous fashion with the most recent round of firings happening post Force Unleashed's release as has EA many times, most recently when they acquired Playfish for webgame centric developmentLucasArts spun these firings as proof that they were fiscally sound and that it was to do with product life cycles.   Rockstar are certainly not EA or LucasArts in size or scope but I frankly wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be true.    I don't think boycotting the game will serve anyone in the long term but there definitely does need to be some oversight in the games industry.  It is a very large business sector and has almost outpaced Hollywood in budget spend and earnings over the last two decades.  This hiring and firing practice must not continue unabated and this will only happen with some regulation put into action.
Of course people do act like jackasses when making power plays, don't act naive just to contradict me.  I do know for a fact that Rockstar is a harsh company to work for, but I also know that Midnight Club LA wasn't a shitty game like the most recent claimant stated.  I don't think there's any hope of outside regulation, and frankly most of the job market reflects this sort of unempowered worker today.  The powers that be within the Western world have all but equated labor unions to socialism and unfortunately there's a lot of really stupid people who support this sort of big business philosophy, but that's another discussion altogether.
 
My whole point is the latest complaints from Rockstar are about the people that made the commercially-unsuccessful Midnight Club LA are now in a position of power and how much money Red Dead Redemption cost to make and how they cannot hope to make that money back.  To that I say, "boo hoo fatcat investor, all the better for the gamer!"
#172 Posted by Natemio (11 posts) -

Im getting this game because it looks fucking sick!  

#173 Posted by buzz_killington (3532 posts) -
#174 Posted by Kibblez (702 posts) -

I see where you're coming from morally and I think it's cool you believe what you do, but.....no

#175 Posted by Daryl (1781 posts) -

Better than being out of a job.

#176 Posted by InTheEnd (268 posts) -

What are ya, some kinda pinko?! If you don't like it, you can move to China!

#177 Posted by super_machine (1930 posts) -

LOL, that sounds like my job.

#178 Posted by jakob187 (21671 posts) -

ZOMG!  There were delays on a game?  And issues with the development?!  WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?! 
 
Seriously...EA does this same shit on so many games.  Sega does it.  Activision DEFINITELY does it.  It's not like this is anything new.  Why is it that, all of a sudden, Rockstar San Diego is so special? 
 
And FUCK ANYONE who wants to talk shit about Midnight Club: L.A.  That game is GREAT!!!

#179 Posted by George_Hukas (1317 posts) -

That is such a joke.. 
 
There is no doubt the devs got paid well for the hard work and overtime they put in. Surely the rumors of mismanagement are accurate by how long the game has been in development.. but the claims from the pissed off housewife you gotta admit are pretty laughable.

#180 Posted by sprocketbot (33 posts) -

I suggest a buy-cott instead!

#181 Posted by damswedon (3191 posts) -

boycott and the studio makes a loss, leading to those people being sacked. that seems the less ethical thing to do.

#182 Edited by Kohe321 (3529 posts) -

I'm not boycotting it... Enough with the damn boycotting already. 
 
@Toxic said:

" What is the use of boycotting their game that they have been working so hard on only to make it sell worse and make them look worse. "

Haha yeah. Why kick them while they are down? The thread should be named "please buy this game" instead...
#183 Posted by Myrmidon (547 posts) -

lol, boycott.
 
People thinking they can rally up a posse and change the world always makes me laugh.

#184 Posted by Bhouse563 (159 posts) -

Not buying this game isn't going to hurt Rockstar, they can take the hit and still operate. What will happen is boycotting this game will cause all of these people that you care so much about to lose their jobs. This issue needs to be settled by the employees, not by consumers.

#185 Posted by MikkaQ (10288 posts) -

Shit, in my industry those hours are normal. Geeky game devs: drink some coffee and shut the fuck up. I lift heavy ass film equipment 12-16 hours a day.  
 
Also I'm totally not boycotting what looks like the best western themed game ever. God if they got that juicy-ass Rockstar dialogue it'll be great. They got some good writers on the team, this could look like some Deadwood style stuff right here.

#186 Posted by BigDo6 (166 posts) -

It might be a more judicious use of time for these aggrieved workers to find an attorney. If the Rockstar's business practices violate labor laws, they will win. That's what the previously mentioned EA workers did, and "working conditions at Rockstar San Diego are considerably worse" from what  hear...
 

"EA Spouse is the name commonly used to refer to a blog post originally made on November 11, 2004 to LiveJournal. It sharply criticized the labor practices of Electronic Arts. The term may also refer to the author of the blog, who was initially anonymous. In 2006, Erin Hoffman — then fiancee of Leander Hasty, employed at the time by EA — was revealed to be behind the blog. Leander Hasty was the main plaintiff in the successful class action suit on behalf of software engineers at EA, which awarded the plaintiffs USD $14.9 million for unpaid overtime. -- Link to cite.

 
I'm sure the employees at Rockstar would be willing to boycott the use of any item derived from unethical/tortuous business practices, but I'm not.
#187 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Nobody is forced to do shit.
 
Unless they whip 'em with a whip and hold their families hostage - that's what they want to do.
 
And no - I don't care if childlabor built my sneakers. I don't care if Red Dead : Redemption has ben built under the worst conditions.
 
I've worked as a cook in a 5 star hotel under a 2 star chef - I've seen worse for much less.
 
Unless you want to go to war over something like this and topple the global capitalistic society, you're shit of luck.

#188 Posted by tallTuck94 (553 posts) -

if we boycott the games (which wont happen it too awesome) the guys at rockstar will just lose their jobs and then they probaly will commit suicide
#189 Posted by Slax (921 posts) -
#190 Posted by SoothsayerGB (1468 posts) -

SO you want to boycott them and get them fired?  Nice Logic there kid.  BTW, I think there is a protest down the street you can go to and get that teenage angst out or you can just go easy on yourself and buy a Sex Pistols album. 
#191 Posted by c1337us (5751 posts) -

That game is going to be fucking sweet. Red Dead Revolver was one of my fav PS2 games. There is no way I am boycotting it.

#192 Posted by noma01 (1 posts) -

Wasn't interested in this game till I read what you wrote, now I'm getting it day one. Seems like the opposite of an half-assed, rushed game, so I can't miss this.

#193 Posted by The_Tolman (433 posts) -

u used the word "legit" so anything you say or have said to me doesnt matter anymore.
#194 Edited by toorima (200 posts) -

Yes everyone let´s not not get this game so all those peoples hard work is wasted. It sucks that this happened but wouldn´t you feel bad if you worked 15 hour days on a game and no one bought it? The word is out there, and boycot the game will also hurt the developers.

#195 Posted by wwfundertaker (1403 posts) -

Never played a red dead game before, thats why im not buying it.

#196 Posted by Godlovesugly (276 posts) -

How anyone could think boycotting this game would make things better for these guys is madness.
Dev: "Phew glad that's over"
Boss: "No one is buying the game, so not only was it stressful and a strain on your family you don't get any more money all thanks to a guy at Giantbomb"
Dev: "Thanks guy at Giantbomb"

#197 Posted by Natemio (11 posts) -

How about instead of boycotting we adverstise the game to friends/websites so more people can se how awesome this game is?

#198 Posted by Jackel2072 (2261 posts) -

nope!

#199 Posted by Little_Socrates (5677 posts) -
@SoothsayerGB: You know there's only one actual Sex Pistols album, right? A bunch of live stuff too, sure, but only one in the studio. What he's looking for is Green Day. 
 
Anyways, everyone's making a pretty valid point about the "they'll just fire all the devs who made a game that didn't sell". See, for example, Pandemic Studios, which is, well, gone. Because The Saboteur didn't sell. While a boycott may seem like the right course of action initially, the consequences overall lower the quality of life of the employees. I'll treat Red Dead Redemption exactly as I would've before I'd heard the news; if it's good, I'll get it. I still won't buy a bad game, though. 
 
As for the employees, please, PLEASE sue Rockstar if those working conditions go against the terms agreed upon in your contracts. And I'm not just saying that because I'd love to see Rockstar get knocked down a peg.
#200 Posted by Gump (565 posts) -
@buzz_killington: I believe a boycott of the game (Red Dead Redemption, which is being developed by Rockstar San Diego) will not help to improve the situation, rather it may make things worse. 
I believe that many of the people at Rockstar Games are putting a massive amount of love into the game so, they all are hoping to build a successful product that will sell well in the stores.

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