Why I hate Resident Evil 5.

Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -

Having played Resident Evil for over a decade now, or at least sat back and watched my uncle played the first game on the PSone, and finding that Resident Evil 4 was one of the best games on the GameCube, 5 looked like it was going to be amazing. After all, it had actually had Wesker which, considering the times when Wesker actually appears in the games and with Jill supposedly being dead, something big had to happen in this installment. Not to mention that it had to build off the successful gameplay changes of RE4.

How wrong I was.

First, i'd like to say that not everything is bad about RE5. Everything looks great, most notably the characters who i'd say are comparable to MGS4's fantastically emotive characters. Also, from the moment he first appears to the bit where he gets syringed in the final fight, Albert Wesker is one of the most perfect character in any video game universe ever. A hulking combination of super powers and smugness, Wesker is not only infinitely hateable but completely formidable. For anyone who hasn't played CVX, this is the same guy who had a ton of steel girders dropped on his head and shook it off like it was nothing more than a slap in the face. As baddies go, Wesker is one of the best out there. Or, was.

The thing which annoyed me the most about RE5 is that as a (potentially) closing chapter to this part of the Resident Evil franchise, it felt as if it was being written and controlled by someone who had no real idea about the characters or the storyline so far. The equivalent of Jonathan Mostow taking over from James Cameron in Terminator 3. The final scene demonstrates this complete lack of character development perfectly. You've got Wesker, the big bad since 1996, dying in a volcano and who is it who kills him? Chris Redfield and Sheva Alomar. Chris killing him makes sense, after all he was one of the intended victims of the Arklay Mountains outbreak but Sheva's involvement is insulting. She doesn't even know who Wesker is till halfway through the game. To make matters worse, Jill fucking Valentine, you know, the other main character from the first game as well as a main franchise player, is sitting right next to them in the helicopter willing to just let the man who she chased for years then was captured and experiment on by, be killed by someone else. Is there no desire for revenge in her heart? Not to bog this down too much with comparisons to other media, but it's the equivalent of Agent Smith being killed by some civilian at the end of Matrix Revolutions while Neo sits back and watches. And that complaint is without even going into detail on how pathetic that end is for Wesker. Getting hit by two rockets in the middle of a volcano seems incredibly impersonal considering the homoerotic rivalry between him and Chris.

I know after writing that, someone will bounce into the thread and give me the old 'It's just a video game. Have fun, dickhead' arguement, but coming right off MGS4 which tied up everyone's story so that every MGS game felt like it was part of one big, if messy, contrived and convoluted, story and actually rewarded me as a fan for sticking with it for years, I expected better from Resident Evil 5. Instead, what I got was a piss poor Resident Evil 4 remake made by people who loved MGS4 so much, that they couldn't tell the rhyme or reason behind the plot points, just that they needed to be copied:

  • A bleach blonde haired ninja in an advanced bodysuit which allows the user to do gravity defying kung-fu. I'm talking about Raiden, right? Nope: Jill Valentine.
  • Killing one of the bosses by sticking him with a needle full of a toxin that overpowers his system making him easily defeatable. I'm talking about Vamp, right? Nope: Albert Wesker.
  • Opening in a desert town with a monologue about how the world is currently in peril. I'm talking about MGS4's Middle Eastern battlefield opeing, right? Nope: RE5's African war torn village Kijuju opening.
  • Ending on a tanker in the middle of the sea full of the bad guy's troops before having a protracted fist fight with the bad guy himself. I'm talking about MGS4's final chapter, right? Nope: RE5's final chapter.

That may only be 4 plot points, but they're all so similar and so major that you can't help but note their point of origin. This is before you even consider the other multitude of other rip offs in there ranging from a complete recycling of some Resident Evil 4 set pieces and the Gears of War influenced reviving a downed player all the way to Ozwell E. Spencer being taken directly from Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi and Albert Wesker acting and looking like he belongs in The Matrix. Absolutely nothing in RE5 is original or even given its own original flavouring. It's just a mish-mash of other games and movies masquerading as a single cohesive unit. And, to be fair to it, it's not like the series has been particularly self-inspired so far so it just shows how unashamed RE5 is in its desire to plagiarise.

Getting back to stealing from Gears of War, it's no secret that since that game got popular, everything has featured cover mechanics and co-op so picking on Resident Evil 5 for taking them might seem like a cheap shot but at the same time, I can't think of another game which does them so badly and needlessly. Up to this point, Resident Evil has also been a solo affair working on the obvious human instincts of loneliness and isolation being two major factors in being scared. The implementation of Sheva in the game completely unbalances the tone that the series has used for years and feels completely unecessary. Granted, there was a second person with Leon in RE4 when you saved Ashley Graham but she had no idea how to use a gun and couldn't help you in anyway so it was down to you to keep her alive.

This is where I feel a lot of designers forget the disconnect between what's happening on screen and how i'm supposed to feel about it. The idea that having two people increases tension only works under the assumption that both people are completely overwhelmed by the enemy and that at least one of them is going to be scared. If you have two people taking everything on without breaking a sweat, then you've always got a confidence boost to keep you going. Just because Sheva keeps getting into trouble, it doesn't mean i'm afraid because all I have to do is fire a shot in her direction and she'll break out from the enemy's grab and then thank me for it, making me, as a player, feel like a badass. This does the complete opposite of making me feel scared and belongs more in a game like Gears, BotS or Army of Two where the ethos is that you're a team of motherfuckers laying the smackdown rather than two ill equipped BSAA agents surviving a zombie horde in a foreign country.

I think the worst part of that, however, is that I might be wrong in what I expected from RE5. Like, MGS4 before it which shirked the stealth in favour of more action, RE5 seems to just forget it's part of a horror franchise and do its best to give you a more action packed ride though again, while MGS4 knew its lineage and still gave you plenty of options to slink through the enemy lines, RE5 never gives you any scares thus losing its one definable trait in the middle of an over saturated action game market. The whole thing just feels dull, plays like a relic and most tragically of all, is regarded as a AAA game. The idea that a game as middling as this can be put out as a cornerstone of a franchise is tragic and really goes a long way to explain why videogames are still treated like a joke and the people who play them get little respect because as an industry, we have incredibly low standards.
#1 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -

Having played Resident Evil for over a decade now, or at least sat back and watched my uncle played the first game on the PSone, and finding that Resident Evil 4 was one of the best games on the GameCube, 5 looked like it was going to be amazing. After all, it had actually had Wesker which, considering the times when Wesker actually appears in the games and with Jill supposedly being dead, something big had to happen in this installment. Not to mention that it had to build off the successful gameplay changes of RE4.

How wrong I was.

First, i'd like to say that not everything is bad about RE5. Everything looks great, most notably the characters who i'd say are comparable to MGS4's fantastically emotive characters. Also, from the moment he first appears to the bit where he gets syringed in the final fight, Albert Wesker is one of the most perfect character in any video game universe ever. A hulking combination of super powers and smugness, Wesker is not only infinitely hateable but completely formidable. For anyone who hasn't played CVX, this is the same guy who had a ton of steel girders dropped on his head and shook it off like it was nothing more than a slap in the face. As baddies go, Wesker is one of the best out there. Or, was.

The thing which annoyed me the most about RE5 is that as a (potentially) closing chapter to this part of the Resident Evil franchise, it felt as if it was being written and controlled by someone who had no real idea about the characters or the storyline so far. The equivalent of Jonathan Mostow taking over from James Cameron in Terminator 3. The final scene demonstrates this complete lack of character development perfectly. You've got Wesker, the big bad since 1996, dying in a volcano and who is it who kills him? Chris Redfield and Sheva Alomar. Chris killing him makes sense, after all he was one of the intended victims of the Arklay Mountains outbreak but Sheva's involvement is insulting. She doesn't even know who Wesker is till halfway through the game. To make matters worse, Jill fucking Valentine, you know, the other main character from the first game as well as a main franchise player, is sitting right next to them in the helicopter willing to just let the man who she chased for years then was captured and experiment on by, be killed by someone else. Is there no desire for revenge in her heart? Not to bog this down too much with comparisons to other media, but it's the equivalent of Agent Smith being killed by some civilian at the end of Matrix Revolutions while Neo sits back and watches. And that complaint is without even going into detail on how pathetic that end is for Wesker. Getting hit by two rockets in the middle of a volcano seems incredibly impersonal considering the homoerotic rivalry between him and Chris.

I know after writing that, someone will bounce into the thread and give me the old 'It's just a video game. Have fun, dickhead' arguement, but coming right off MGS4 which tied up everyone's story so that every MGS game felt like it was part of one big, if messy, contrived and convoluted, story and actually rewarded me as a fan for sticking with it for years, I expected better from Resident Evil 5. Instead, what I got was a piss poor Resident Evil 4 remake made by people who loved MGS4 so much, that they couldn't tell the rhyme or reason behind the plot points, just that they needed to be copied:

  • A bleach blonde haired ninja in an advanced bodysuit which allows the user to do gravity defying kung-fu. I'm talking about Raiden, right? Nope: Jill Valentine.
  • Killing one of the bosses by sticking him with a needle full of a toxin that overpowers his system making him easily defeatable. I'm talking about Vamp, right? Nope: Albert Wesker.
  • Opening in a desert town with a monologue about how the world is currently in peril. I'm talking about MGS4's Middle Eastern battlefield opeing, right? Nope: RE5's African war torn village Kijuju opening.
  • Ending on a tanker in the middle of the sea full of the bad guy's troops before having a protracted fist fight with the bad guy himself. I'm talking about MGS4's final chapter, right? Nope: RE5's final chapter.

That may only be 4 plot points, but they're all so similar and so major that you can't help but note their point of origin. This is before you even consider the other multitude of other rip offs in there ranging from a complete recycling of some Resident Evil 4 set pieces and the Gears of War influenced reviving a downed player all the way to Ozwell E. Spencer being taken directly from Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi and Albert Wesker acting and looking like he belongs in The Matrix. Absolutely nothing in RE5 is original or even given its own original flavouring. It's just a mish-mash of other games and movies masquerading as a single cohesive unit. And, to be fair to it, it's not like the series has been particularly self-inspired so far so it just shows how unashamed RE5 is in its desire to plagiarise.

Getting back to stealing from Gears of War, it's no secret that since that game got popular, everything has featured cover mechanics and co-op so picking on Resident Evil 5 for taking them might seem like a cheap shot but at the same time, I can't think of another game which does them so badly and needlessly. Up to this point, Resident Evil has also been a solo affair working on the obvious human instincts of loneliness and isolation being two major factors in being scared. The implementation of Sheva in the game completely unbalances the tone that the series has used for years and feels completely unecessary. Granted, there was a second person with Leon in RE4 when you saved Ashley Graham but she had no idea how to use a gun and couldn't help you in anyway so it was down to you to keep her alive.

This is where I feel a lot of designers forget the disconnect between what's happening on screen and how i'm supposed to feel about it. The idea that having two people increases tension only works under the assumption that both people are completely overwhelmed by the enemy and that at least one of them is going to be scared. If you have two people taking everything on without breaking a sweat, then you've always got a confidence boost to keep you going. Just because Sheva keeps getting into trouble, it doesn't mean i'm afraid because all I have to do is fire a shot in her direction and she'll break out from the enemy's grab and then thank me for it, making me, as a player, feel like a badass. This does the complete opposite of making me feel scared and belongs more in a game like Gears, BotS or Army of Two where the ethos is that you're a team of motherfuckers laying the smackdown rather than two ill equipped BSAA agents surviving a zombie horde in a foreign country.

I think the worst part of that, however, is that I might be wrong in what I expected from RE5. Like, MGS4 before it which shirked the stealth in favour of more action, RE5 seems to just forget it's part of a horror franchise and do its best to give you a more action packed ride though again, while MGS4 knew its lineage and still gave you plenty of options to slink through the enemy lines, RE5 never gives you any scares thus losing its one definable trait in the middle of an over saturated action game market. The whole thing just feels dull, plays like a relic and most tragically of all, is regarded as a AAA game. The idea that a game as middling as this can be put out as a cornerstone of a franchise is tragic and really goes a long way to explain why videogames are still treated like a joke and the people who play them get little respect because as an industry, we have incredibly low standards.
#2 Posted by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -

I agree with the principal behind a lot of the things you are saying, but honestly, Resident Evils plot became a joke after all those different contradictory epilogues in Resi 3: Nemesis. Imo the story ends at Resi 2 and everything else is just for fun.

Besides, I personally feel that Jill concentrating on flying the helicopter out of the volcano so they don't all die is probably a little more important to her in that scene than unstrapping herself, having an argument with Sheva and then grabbing the launcher. Especially after she made it clear she accepts she is no longer Chris' partner in an earlier scene. I personally was much more insulted by Weskers devolution into some cheap clone of Agent Smith.

I totally agree that any and all story the Resi series had has been irrevocably fucked beyond repair, but I disagree with the specific examples you use, as for Sheva herself, I feel from a gameplay perspective it was a good move, from a story perspective I didn't particularly like her either, but you can't blame her for simply appearing out of thin air. After all, that's part of what made the original Resi games so appealing, not only you, but also the characters had no idea what they were getting into. Maybe they were hoping to re-capture some of that with a new character.

As for making you feel like a badass instead of being scared, I think they made their intentions clear when they made Resident Evil 4. There is no horror to be had here anymore, it is purely action. I disagree that that should have happened, but nonetheless it has, so given that was what they were aiming for, you cannot fault them for placing the emphasis on action.

Also, I really wish people would stop talking about 'AAA' games in a way that implies it's some sort of award, or badge of honor. It's not, it's just a buzz term used by publishers to convey how much money they've put into the project. It means absolutely nothing to consumers, nor should it, and nor do they get to decide what is and is not 'AAA' or 'worthy of being AAA' it's a decision made by the publisher as part of their marketing process that is all. I really wish people would pay it less mind, but no, like any good marketing ploy or buzz term, it's doing it's job because uneducated people misunderstand it's true meaning. All it refers to is how big a games budget was, it's not subjective, it's not some kind of badge of honor, and it's not decided by the consumer or the journalism industry.

#3 Posted by keyhunter (3207 posts) -

So you're saying that in the last half year or so of development, Capcom completely changed the game's story and levels to match that of MGS 4? That's nonsense.

#4 Posted by jakob187 (21735 posts) -

You can't fault a game for taking elements from other games (look at Dead Space), but you CAN fault it when they take those elements and poorly implement them.  A lot of people found Resident Evil 5 to be an incredible game, especially when you look at the critical praise behind it, but you and me are part of a minority.  I think you wrote a pretty decent write-up here.


Personally, I just felt that the controls were a bit clunky in some areas.  When you're fighting a bunch of slow-moving infected fools, the shooting mechanics are pretty easy on you...but then there are times when you just get super frustrated.  The laser sight from RE4 doesn't feel right in RE5 for some reason, and I just can't put my finger on it.  Here's the thing, though:  I feel like my complaints are almost null and void about the controls because I would MUCH rather play with the controls on the Wii for RE4.  Those were great controls that felt dead-on with what I needed, and it made the RE experience so much more incredible for me.

I think you hit a couple of good points about the implementation of co-op in the game, which is something that I wasn't a fan of as well.  Survival-horror games are supposed to put you in a frightfully bad situation ALONE.  That's what helps build the tension.  Having Sheva by my side gave me too much of a sense of security, kind of like when I watched the crazy highway scene in Final Destination 2 and was able to realize that it was only a movie.  Then again, they didn't seem to really be going for the "scary" factor this time around, but rather going for the "let's try to reel in the Gears and Halo players that wouldn't usually touch this game".  Unfortunately, having Dead Space release during the holidays last year, EA showed how to properly implement a GREAT shooting scheme while still holding onto those survival-horror elements.  Facing Necromorphs alone on the Ishimura was a far greater experience to me than going through Africa with a steroid-pumped version of a classic character that hasn't seen the light of day in a while and a minor role character being introduced and pushed to have some level of significance only to be washed out by the revelation in the story that LO AND BEHOLD someone familiar happens to not be what we thought.

There are a lot of problems that I can point out having with the game, but in the end, we're still part of the minority.  Nonetheless, I think you wrote a pretty decent setup that goes into details about why you didn't like the game...rather than how most people will just say "RE5 SUCKED I HATEZ IT ZOMG" and give NO reason whatsoever for it.

My sole reason?  Dead Space was better.
#5 Posted by Akeldama (4255 posts) -

one word for you. Westernized. Resident Evil died with 4. Welcome to the mourner's club. 

#6 Posted by jakob187 (21735 posts) -
@Akeldama said:
" one word for you. Westernized. Resident Evil died with 4. Welcome to the mourner's club.  "
I think the argument, debate, and discussion here is less about RE5 being Westernized and more about why RE5 just isn't that great of a game.  I mean, the core franchise always had some solid gameplay...even if it was a bit iffy at times (RE3 being a good example IMO, and the failings of RE Zero as well).
#7 Posted by Akeldama (4255 posts) -
@jakob187 said:
" @Akeldama said:
" one word for you. Westernized. Resident Evil died with 4. Welcome to the mourner's club.  "
I think the argument, debate, and discussion here is less about RE5 being Westernized and more about why RE5 just isn't that great of a game.  I mean, the core franchise always had some solid gameplay...even if it was a bit iffy at times (RE3 being a good example IMO, and the failings of RE Zero as well).
"
his whole issue with Weker dying the way he does is quite valid but what do you expect? This franchise has been mutilated beyond any recognition to what made it so great. If it were the way it should have been, Wesker would have gotten the dramatic death Handsome was looking for (Liquid in MGS4) but that would have been completely out of place. Whats more action packed than two rockets hitting a guy in a volcano?

Although his point about Jill not getting in on the action is really quite astounding. 
#8 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" I agree with the principal behind a lot of the things you are saying, but honestly, Resident Evils plot became a joke after all those different contradictory epilogues in Resi 3: Nemesis. Imo the story ends at Resi 2 and everything else is just for fun.

Besides, I personally feel that Jill concentrating on flying the helicopter out of the volcano so they don't all die is probably a little more important to her in that scene than unstrapping herself, having an argument with Sheva and then grabbing the launcher. Especially after she made it clear she accepts she is no longer Chris' partner in an earlier scene. I personally was much more insulted by Weskers devolution into some cheap clone of Agent Smith.

I totally agree that any and all story the Resi series had has been irrevocably fucked beyond repair, but I disagree with the specific examples you use, as for Sheva herself, I feel from a gameplay perspective it was a good move, from a story perspective I didn't particularly like her either, but you can't blame her for simply appearing out of thin air. After all, that's part of what made the original Resi games so appealing, not only you, but also the characters had no idea what they were getting into. Maybe they were hoping to re-capture some of that with a new character.

As for making you feel like a badass instead of being scared, I think they made their intentions clear when they made Resident Evil 4. There is no horror to be had here anymore, it is purely action. I disagree that that should have happened, but nonetheless it has, so given that was what they were aiming for, you cannot fault them for placing the emphasis on action.

Also, I really wish people would stop talking about 'AAA' games in a way that implies it's some sort of award, or badge of honor. It's not, it's just a buzz term used by publishers to convey how much money they've put into the project. It means absolutely nothing to consumers, nor should it, and nor do they get to decide what is and is not 'AAA' or 'worthy of being AAA' it's a decision made by the publisher as part of their marketing process that is all. I really wish people would pay it less mind, but no, like any good marketing ploy or buzz term, it's doing it's job because uneducated people misunderstand it's true meaning. All it refers to is how big a games budget was, it's not subjective, it's not some kind of badge of honor, and it's not decided by the consumer or the journalism industry. "
The original ending to Resident Evil had plenty of branches on it too. After all, if you completed it the way that was deemed canon for many years, Chris spent most of the first game locked in a prison cell while Jill was the main hero.

She doesn't help the helicopter though. Josh Stone was flying, she's just sitting next to Sheva and Chris meaning she could just have easily grabbed one of the launchers and tossed the other to Chris. Either way, her being directly involved in the demise of Wesker would have made more sense and been far more poignant. Even if they did go out of their way to make Jill completely useless in RE5. And with Wesker, he's had Matrix powers since CVX so it only makes sense that he still has them now.

I see what you mean by bringing her in fresh like the S.T.A.R.S. in the first game, but she did seem to know what she was getting in to, At no point was she less than on par with Chris in terms of knowing what to expect. Fomr the way it was protrayed, it seemed like she'd seen a fair bit of action rather than being a complete rookie.

RE4 was very action orientated, I agree, but there was still horror there. It was like the shift from Alien to Aliens. There are still scares in Aliens, it's just there alongside the action. This had none of that. Also, one thing I probably should have mentioned in the OP is how tame the game feels, particularly after Dead Space. There's little in the way of blood and guts meaning that even compared to most standard FPS' games, it feels lacking.

I know it shouldn't mean anything to the consumers but it should matter to the publishers that something they've invested so much time in is OK at best. It shold have turned out like Terminator Salvation or Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen where it's obviously big budget but comes out to a critical panning.

@keyhunter said:
" So you're saying that in the last half year or so of development, Capcom completely changed the game's story and levels to match that of MGS 4? That's nonsense. "
Not really. Look at how similar a lot of the stuff is in the game, like I mentioned. The idea that there could be two main bad guys defeated in an incredibly similar fashion, there could be two characters that act as similar as Raiden and Jill do as well as the settings could be so alike and that's all coincidence? I highly doubt it.

And overall, I have to say i'm glad people have actually read this and aren't just acting fanboyishly against it. It took a good while to write and edit so it wasn't just stream of conciousness rambling. Cheers.
#9 Posted by keyhunter (3207 posts) -
@HandsomeDead: I thought she was more of a shameless ripoff of Zero Suit Samus really. When you look at all of Capcom's past works, and compare them to things that came before you'll notice that all the things you said about RE 5 are true about all their games. Capcom gets most of its inspiration from other games, stories, movies, and characters and then makes them into something much more interesting. Not the most imaginitive bunch though.
#10 Posted by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -

I'm gonna be short and blunt on this one to be honest, i've had a lengthy and draining discussion on this already recently.

Basicly, I agree with a lot of the points you are making fundamentally, about the state of storytelling in modern games. But I feel the specifics you are drawing issue from are, well, complete bollocks. I honestly don't see any problem with things like Jill not pulling the trigger, or Sheva's addition to the cast. There are plenty of other targets which actually make sense to attack such as the ridiculous plotline they put Jill through to put her in that position in the first place, the stupidly obvious Wesker double cross, the whole meeting between Spencer, Wesker and Chris/Jill thing, all of those things imo are more worthy targets than some bullshit about it being more 'poignant'  to have had Jill pull the trigger (I personally feel that her accepting Sheva was now your partner instead of her was a much more touching thing to do)

Also, Jills hair colour and face, all I can say if wtf.

Sure, Wesker had Matrix powers in CVX, but they didn't waste the potential of their new technology by ripping scenes from the matrix almost play-by-play, that's my issue with Wesker in this game.

In terms of sheer storytelling however, taken out of context of the rest of the series I honestly believe that despite continuation errors, Resident Evil 5 is one of the few shining examples of storytelling in modern videogames, especially with it's focus on design and it's significant advances in digital cinematography, as well as animation and facial/voice syncing. New technology such as the virtual camera allow such high degrees of flexibility and using real actors for the roles gives the characters such a convincing performance. I think I said in another thread that this is the only game i've ever seen where i've been totally convinced of all the characters eye movements, they look almost real and no other game has managed that yet. I feel that tech is wasted with bullshit scenes that might as well be pulled directly out of the matrix.

I also disagree yet again with your feelings on the term 'AAA' so what (you feel that) the game is mediocre, that doesn't affect the amount of money they spent at all. The end result is not what's being judged it's completely irrelevant how good the game is, or how the publisher feels about the end result. It's a term that shouldn't even ever need to be discussed or mentioned anywhere ever, it's just got another buzzword to get people talking smack, it literally means nothing in any context.

I feel for you, and agree with the fundamentals of what you are saying, I just hate to see your well thought out points go to waste complaining about bullshit specifics in a few scenes here or there, and to follow that up by misguidedly smack-talking about the game. Sure it feels dated when put next to Dead Space, but I think you're going overboard with the bashing in regards to sheer gameplay. It holds up pretty well as an action game even without certain upgrades. And what it lacks, it makes up for with those advances in cinematography and digital animation.

#11 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@The_A_Drain: I already said I hated absolutely everything they did with the Jill character in RE5 and yeah, the stuff with Wesker turning on Excella is bullshit but compared to the rest of that game, that's hardly major. Everyone could see it coming but there's a difference between predictability in one scene involving a minor character and a complete waste of 10 years worth of plot. Also, the stuff with Spencer's estate is all backstory that has no real bearing on the game itself besides for showing Ozwell is dead and setting up Jill's kidnapping, stuff which I already mentioned when saying it seems like it written by someone who had no idea who the characters were. Those scenes could have meant a lot and the way you got them fragmented could have maybe held some kind of Memento style final twist, but all they were was an excuse for well choreographed action scenes.

I don't know how him dodging bullets is more of a rip off of than the Trinity wall run he did against Alexia in CVX. At least his dodging in and out of the bullets weren't him running from the fight. Not to mention, maybe unintentionally, they made him look more cocky than ever because the way he vanished, it made him look like he was slowing down to show he could swerve the bullets easily.

I think this is where we're getting crossed wire because I completely agree with what you say there. The way the cutscenes were modelled and acted were great. The problem was, they had no relevance at all. Story wise, there was no character progression besides with Chris and Jill though, that again, was terrible written. There was no reason for her to accept they weren't partners anymore. They'd been working together for years to fight Wesker and now they have him, her just backing out seemed stupid. Especially considering how she now had a more personal reason to finish him off unlike Sheva.

Don't you really think though with all the money that these companies are putting into the big games that they should be aiming for something more than what they're getting? People will be talking about big moments from games like MGS4, GTA IV, BioShock for a long while when RE5 is pretty much already forgotten. Considering this is the closing of one of video games first major mainstream titles, it should have done a lot better.

I'm not smacktalking the game especially, but I don't see how you can defend the stop and shoot gameplay. When RE4 arrived, it was used well and felt incredibly tense. Now it just seems out of date. Especially when you consider what it's obviously trying to emulate while still using the 5+ year old tactic of having enemies run at you, then stop so you have enough time to shoot them.
#12 Posted by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -
@HandsomeDead:

I don't think any wires are being crossed at all, I just flat out disagree with you on those specific points. Sorry I guess.

Whether I agree with that view or not, is irrelevant to the use or any vies on the use of the term 'AAA'. I may agree that that yes, the series deserved more than it got, but I still vehemently oppose the use of the term 'AAA' in any sort of discussion, or in any sort os subjective manner. It's like saying "This iPod cost over a certain amount" it's ridiculously vague, means absolutely nothing whatsoever, and cannot be argued subjectively, it's totally pointless to ever even use the term unless you are a publisher trying to get the buzz out. Even then the only thing people should take from it, is that the game had/is going to have, a high budget.

Regardless of how much I loved RE4 as an action game, it in combination with Resi 3 absolutely demolished any faith I had in the ability of the series producers to carry the story in any meaningfull way. So I guess maybe the fact that I thought RE5 almost (almost) redeemed itself in that respect probably stems from the fact I experienced all the problems you are experiencing now with RE5, but years prior. So I was more than pleasently surprised with Resi 5 and it's plot.

I still vehemently disagree with the Jill thing though, I just thing it's an utterly petty point to argue. Who fucking cares who killed him? He's dead. That's all that matters. Honestly, if Jill had endangered the lives of everybody aboard that chopper to even take the fraction of a moment to switch weapons with Sheva and make some quip remark about being back together with Chris, i'd have thrown my controller through the television in anger. In much the same way you appear to be reacting to what actually happened in that scene. So I guess we will never agree about that point.

Regardless of personal opinions on the plot though, I think we can both agree that the tech presented and used in Resi 5 will hopefully become standard from now on, at least parts of it, in my opinion it's absolutely boosted the game high above any level of cinematography any game before it has ever accomplished and should be emulated by everybody. It just brings everything to life, especially the eye movements. At times, I could have sworn I was watching a real movie. Only to be brought swiftly back to reality by screen tearing, the dialogue, or when the camera moved away from the high polygon faces.
#13 Posted by TheMustacheHero (6655 posts) -

BUT GUYS! IT'S CO-OP!

#14 Posted by RYNO9881 (625 posts) -

I knida agree with TC

#15 Posted by Emilio (3380 posts) -

To make things short, RE5 is a good game, but it is also a very horrible piece of shit game.

#16 Posted by AzureSupernova (191 posts) -

I have to say I can agree with numerous things, but after RE4 I think anyone could have figured out how RE5 would have turned out. Leon turned badass in RE4 and half the fanbase threw a fit, now the same happens to Chris and more people are complaining about the lack of fear factor? Well what did you expect, honestly? Fair enough that in RE and RE2 that Chris and Leon were both pretty clueless rookies, didn't know what they were going up against. But hell, it's been a while since then and it's fair to say that after what happened in the Arklay Facility and Raccoon City, that not much is going to cath either of them off guard. 
 
As for the story, well Capcom have never been one for continuety. RE and RE2 tied up nicely, but every game after that seemed to slowly come undone towards the end, leaving so many loose ends! Look at RE3 and RE0; Nicholai and Billy, did they survive? Because we haven't seen or heard anything about them since then. Again, remember back to CV where Wesker made a point of informing Claire that he had Steve's corpse, for what purpose exactly? Where was all of this going, the culmination of him gathering up samples of every virus?
#17 Posted by super_machine (1931 posts) -

My biggest issue with the game is the lack of suspense. There was nothing scary, or mysterious about it. I was waiting for a horde of zombies to be revealed at some point, but never happened. It reminded me of reading the epilogue of a good book. You already know what is going to happen, this just gives you more information to fill in the blanks.

#18 Posted by gordoa (50 posts) -

If you like RE 4 & 5 more than the previous RE games, you are stupid.

#19 Posted by Icemael (6356 posts) -
@gordoa said:
" If you like RE 4 & 5 more than the previous RE games, you are stupid. "
I'd say that the opposite is true. RE5 isn't a very good game, but RE4(at least the Wii version) is FAR better than all the previous RE games combined.
#20 Posted by SUBL1ME (116 posts) -
@gordoa said:
"

If you like RE 4 & 5 more than the previous RE games, you are stupid.

"
I 100% agree with this, I despised RE4 for what it did to the story arc of Resident Evil and RE5 was was already written off as an atrocity before I played it. RE1 through CVX were perfect, even 3 which truthfully I never understood why people hated it. Though RE2 is arguably the best in the franchise. Because people were sick of the controls Capcom took it upon themselves to write the T-Virus and Umbrella completely out of the picture and place characters in organizations and places that were absurd. Leon Kennedy a secret service agent?! BSAA.....WTF!?
#21 Posted by JJWeatherman (14564 posts) -

I think you are digging a little too deep into this. But overall, some good points.

#22 Posted by Grim_Fandango (258 posts) -

Does it really matter? It sold well, end of story, but for those of the hardcore, then yes I agree with the post. 
 
I liked it because I am very unfamiliar with the source material, I have no idea where it all started, never followed the story, so when RE5 came out, I liked it alot, but stopped playing after I got all the achievements I could salvage.

#23 Edited by Opie (1 posts) -

I actually really don't care for the controls in the game.  I am going to give it another try but I got frustrated right away because I hate that you can't cusomize them beyond four default configurations.  I can't run and use the right stick at the same time because i have to take my finger off the A button to put it on the right stick.  (XBOX).  Then you can't move while shooting and the laser sight is just way too difficult for hordes of enemies.  I keep getting killed by the huge guy with the hammer so I just keep running away.  What fun is that to just run away from enemies?   I also dislike you can't move while shooting. 
 
Ok-that said, its probably just my personal gaming tastes but I found Left for Dead way more fun even though it lacked any story. 

#24 Posted by Belonpopo (1822 posts) -

Skipped reading your post. I guess you hate because you can't move and shoot? 

#25 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Belonpopo said:
" Skipped reading your post. I guess you hate because you can't move and shoot?  "
Why should I give you an answer? You bumped it, you read it.
#26 Posted by Baillie (4279 posts) -
@Belonpopo said:
" Skipped reading your post. I guess you hate because you can't move and shoot?  "
TL;DR 
 
Anyway, I think more people would enjoy RE5 more if they played the whole game on co-op over live/psn/pc. It was a fantastic experience playing with my friend for a good few days getting 100% completion was never so fun, not even RE4 matched up to it.
#27 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Baillie: I played it through once on my own, then went through for the achievements in co-op.
#28 Posted by Alphiehyr (1083 posts) -
#29 Posted by MrSnow (1213 posts) -

The game did suck

#30 Edited by the_dead_rejected (4 posts) -

(maybe some spoiler ) well first off they said the game wasnt gonna be horror more of a action kinda game saddly lets move on  when i was playing it i was getting more so irritated not so afraid to get hit by one of those biohaz mishap's. i have a xbox 360 and my friend had a ps3 and we switch off feeling the difference in the game and well yes it felt like MGS in ps3 as in XBOX it felt like you were playing GoW i miss the puzzels the camra angles  and Zombies i felt as if they just brought back the lickers for sum fan based shit just like in silent hill 5 with pyramid head (despise that game) wesker dying in a volcano was sadly funny cuz it was so dramatic. and all we can do is hope for a better game just like in silent hill five we have 
silent hill shattered memories to look forward to. plus you wonder why people arent still talking about RE5 BUWHAHA it got boycotted bad where i live

#31 Posted by clubsandwich (3795 posts) -

I agree completely with you OP, RE5 sucked massive balls, however, I think the new dlc will kinda improve the game, I hope we get to see some zombies and puzzles. :D

#32 Posted by the_dead_rejected (4 posts) -

the funny thing is i pre-order my game and funny thing is my friend broke the figure by sitting on it Lol and the lil bag you get with it and the case is metal if im not correct i sold my copy since i was so upset with it.

#33 Posted by nnilley (42 posts) -

Great post!

#34 Posted by carlthenimrod (1597 posts) -

I enjoyed it. But I wasn't one of those people hyping it up. I went in looking to just have some fun and that I did.
 
I'm already on-board for the DLC.

#35 Posted by the_dead_rejected (4 posts) -
@carlthenimrod:  Well i geuss its a good thing to go in looking for less and getting more but, RE5 just doesnt feel like a resident evil game its trying to be something that its not basically
#36 Posted by Gargantuan (1887 posts) -

I enjoyed the game very much, but I've never played any other RE game. Great co-op game.

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