I'm 2/5 on that one and it's more helpful than you think.

i don't find it helpful at all. when you have like 700g left and then enter the castle, you'll have 84g left. if you're far into the game, you'll get those 84g in the first room alone from chairs and stuff. but the second upgrade costs something like 5200g.

i used the 9th class (won't "spoil" it) for the third boss. was an absolute breeze!

best run so far was close to 20k gold i think, tank class. (paladin?)

you'll have to lock down the castle and get an heir who can get to the chest. mostly spell dependend. there's one where you have to have the fire wheel and one where you have to have the sickles.

This is the most addictive game of its type that I've ever played. It teases me with juuuust enough progress between deaths to keep me playing.

Sure, but it's an investment, same with the super expensive upgrade that increases the amount of gold you get per pickup. Even just one upgrade in you are making more money overall, the more you upgrade it, the more you benefit in the long run.

@mortal_sb: You're right, it's not worth the investment at all. Especially compared to how much more you get from the gold-finding one, not to mention that that little sliver you keep will most likely end up being part of your surplus next time around anyways. You're not really saving money each run, it's just this mini-bank you never really use.

If it was more of a substantial bonus at least it would have the functionality of allowing you to save up for more expensive upgrades, but the time window between struggling to make a few K to being able to buy multiple upgrades per run is so small it would only really be useful with a price-cut to boot.

I wasn't paying enough attention when I did it, but does the that Charon buyback skill open up a new branch of the tree?

its on the shinobi side so I thought it might be worth it to open up that stuff

ok, this game is too awesome. I just had a guy that was far-sighted and the item statue gave me "nerdy glasses" which removed the blur effect and gave me some rad specs =D

The game is very very good. I'm addicted to it myself...

I think ive played too much of this...

@gerrid: Charon's upgrade is worth buying for the tree expansion yes, it's not worth it for anything else.

Took about 35 hours to max out everything, of course game is still murderously difficult. Best run was 105k with a Barbarian that had already killed the final boss on the previous run (so really like 160k) and I managed to get two more bosses and almost fully explore the next zone after that. 3 consecutive "Legendary" ancestors. Of course when I started Legacy+5 it took me like 25 deaths to get to a second boss; game is still awesome. Spellsword with Savant is probably the most interesting build, though Axes/Fire shield do great work as well. I guess the real challenge is actually trying to beat the game in one run and then a much harder challenge after that is beating every enemy in every room since the rooms are ridiculously difficult but the bosses are relatively easy after the first run. Still super addictive even without gold doing anything, still have stat chests to hunt for and trying to beat some of these comically absurd rooms.

@thornblackstar said:

I think ive played too much of this...

Haha, no love for magic/mana. As it should be.

It's useful in a pinch, but seriously, even Spellswords and Archmagi can't rely on spells THAT much.

oh, you have no idea. I completely suck at this game, but when I can get my hands on a crow lich it's on. Just recently started NG+ and with any other class I can clear a few rooms in the castle, maybe get 10k gold. With lich however I clear the castle and forest easy.

Just got to NG++ and realized that yea ... this is no longer for me. Every enemy is basically a sub boss :/ A simple skeleton tossing bones becomes a shower of a dozen projectiles. I'm out!

@bisonhero: Once you get enough mana spells can carry almost any character including Barbarians; mana is useful for almost anyone even if you don't like the specific spell you have since character abilities use it. The most overpowered builds in the game are all spell related.

So I'm on my third run to the boss and I also stacked the runes that made the monsters harder. I can't even kill the first boss now with how many adds that spawn along with it

@tennmuerti: Every enemy is beatable, it's just when you get like 15 on the screen at once that it gets ridiculous; but you can still make progress due to how much gold drops. For example with McRibs the way to kill them easily is hit them and move forward after every hit, as long as you keep knocking them back their pattern won't hit you. Now if one spawns below you while other shit is attacking you head on that's when it's kind of impossible not to take damage. Either way it's still a great game for 20-30 hours if you don't want to bother with the highest difficulty ranges (and you could always delete your save and expand your tech tree differently the second time etc).

Whew. Honestly, I've barely done anything else since the game came out. Everything bought, all achievements. Took a little over 30 hours.

@shaunage: Oh cool, so I had no reason to buy the steam version; if there was a really hard achievement I might be slightly perturbed. Huzzah for gog. I have to say a level 1 run intrigues me immensely as at NG+8 the enemies have just a shitload of HP in addition to about half of the rooms being exceedingly difficult to not take damage on; you're basically just grinding for stats at that point and I'd rather grind for stats when each stat upgrade sort of meant something as it would in just a normal game. Only 3 crappy classes is going to be tough but at least I'll get better at minibosses (previously brute-forced except for Amon and Barbatos) and the actual bosses will pose something of a challenge again; especially the last one who would just plain buttfuck me with 100 hp and no damage. Of course the Blob is going to be nigh impossible without P.A.D. but oh well.

Via architect I killed every boss in one run plus a sixth boss on the next run (cookie if you can guess what my character's setup was); title was still just plain old "Legendary."

At least on NG, the blob boss was trivial with a Spellsword, fire shield, and stacked +mana runes. Get him locked in the corner and you kill the adds as they spawn, get more mana, and just wait for his health bar to deplete.

EDIT: Turns out it's even easier with Time Stop. I beat him on NG+ in six seconds.

@ravenlight: Oh I know, talking about doing it with a level 0 character, no spellsword available or even just basic upgrades and equipment. Found stats are the only thing that I can get pretty much. Timestop plus enough mana > everything; though the last boss has invincibility frames if you're not careful. NG+3 and beyond is basically just blitz the boss rooms since they're way easier than actually fighting stuff; basically the game becomes nigh impossible to play normally and while this is still pretty fun for a while I find it more interesting to run around on a fresh NG run with a level 0 character; you don't have dashes or jumps or movement speed but the enemies aren't total bullshit so it's more on you when you fail.

Deleted my 40 hour save to accomplish this and the game is still addictive; took around 4 hours to beat the first boss ("Sir Hero IV"), pretty much requires a fair amount of luck since one of the attack patterns is impossible to dodge without ADHD or dwarfism. Aside from that I did make it to Ponce and Alexander once each, they're not as luck based as Khidr but you do have to fight them for 10-15 minutes and make maybe only one or two mistakes.

The silver chests have like a 5% chance to hold a stat upgrade, so aside from Khidr I've found a grand total of 1 armor+2. Unfortunately equip load is one of the passives that drop so those'll be wasted, but I have found like 15 or 16 fairy chests, only need 37 more and each one of those will become stat upgrades as well. Yet to kill a miniboss though I've taken several of them down to 20% hp or so.

Still no clue how I'll eventually beat Herodotus other than grinding a shitload of stats but I'll definitely still be interested up to that point; and I have a fair idea of what builds are good against the final boss so that shouldn't be too horrible.

Good to see someone using the Spellsword to good effect!

I have mixed opinions on this game.

Yay!

-The progression system is a great addition to the random dungeon modern rogue-inspired games. I normally dislike this genre with only a couple notable exceptions. Or one. I like Binding of Isaac.

-some of the effects added to your characters are hilarious

Nay!

-pretty much every part of the action mechanics feels wrong, for my taste in action mechanics anyway. The hit boxes on a lot of things don't make sense. The way dive attack does significantly less damage than normal standing attack, and how you must be in the air before initiating it. How dash can't be interrupted. Seems like very few invincibility frames (none?) on just about everything. Some attacks that aren't supposed to go through walls (fireball mages) randomly do sometimes anyway.

I enjoy the whole design framework of Rogue Legacy. Everything in support of the jumpy/slashy is great. But man... I hate the jumpy/stabby.

I've had fun playing for a few hours today but I don't want to play anymore.

Damn, I've been seeing lots of people playing this. I don't know whether I should get this or Rise of the Triads. Decisions, decisions.

@nikoran: Well.. They're completely different games but Rogue Legacy is out now, Rise of the Triad comes out on the 31st. Were you looking to play something new in the next 30 days?

I wish I could start. This game will run for about 10 to 15 minutes before the framerate completely drops out. Are any of you guys dealing with this?

@herbiebug: I've had absolutely no problems with the hitboxes, which is exceedingly rare for a platformer. Worth noting is the size of your character varies tremendously and there seem to be somewhere over 10 different potential sizes depending on traits/gender and with each size comes a different hitbox/attack range. It's hard to play a small character unless you're just running away from things as a result and an extremely large character (Endomorph + Gigantism) can take up 1/4th the screen while attacking; which results in some interesting gameplay variance.

Just cleared NG+. The Barbarian's shout sort of trivializes the final boss. 20 hours in and I'm still not sick of this game.

You know i wasnt too thrilled with it at first but after about three hours i finally get it, it takes time to learn the pace and get a good grasp on how it controls (at least for me) but now that i got everything down this is a fucking blast.

I've been enjoying this game a lot, but the one thing that's been bugging me is the number of chests only available to characters with dwarfism, or at least so it seems. Is there a way to shrink down to that size for a period of time?

@beforet said:

Nope. If you really want them, once you die, you can choose to play as a dwarfism character next time, then you can pay The Architect to keep the map the same, allowing you to go and get that specific chest. I'm fairly certain those dwarfism chests are mostly money chests.

Similarly, some fairy chests all but require Assassin's mist ability or Hokage's replacement ability, or the ability to fly or double/triple/quadruple jumps. The Architect basically exists to allow you to get those chests by using different classes or different runes. But again, it's not that important, as if you just start a new map, that map will also have tons of chests and fairy chests.

yeah, that's why I never figured it was worth it to pay the architect just for those chest; you'll end up making more just going in with a new map.

@beforet said:

Yeah, the game kinda doesn't justify using The Architect very well.

If you really feel ready for a boss, you can just forgo earning more gold, pay The Architect, and keep warping to whatever boss you want to keep fighting, but that's kinda the best use for it.

Technically, there are different rarities of chests, so you may want to reload a map for those. For instance, minibosses yield those sort of bluish-gray chests, which I think have a higher rate of giving blueprints, and if not, tend to yield a lot of gold, and not every random map has a miniboss on it. Outside of minibosses, there are the chests where the edges are made of metal, which yield slightly more gold than the regular all wood chests, but I'm not really sure those are worth paying The Architect for.

This game is great. A pleasant surprise.

Managed to get to Herodotus with my level 0 character and it also seems totally in the realm of possibility; ridiculously difficult mind but still possible, ADHD is a near necessity as with the other bosses and PAD wouldn't hurt either. Found another 20 or so runes today as I edge ever closer to actually getting stat upgrades with some regularity. The painting miniboss can be hit 3 times with a well placed axe so an archmage with axe/dwarfism can beat it at any level pretty much.

NG+2 Darkness boss defeated by spamming Conflux. The difficulty of the various bosses is real inconsistent. Rushing to the bosses after NG+ seems to be the way to go.

Some amusing patch notes:

Balance Changes:

- Shinobi can no longer gain the timestop spell.

- Dragon firebell spam re-enabled.

- Knight Special drain rate tic raised from 3 to 6.

- Assassin Class spell initialization cost lowered from 10 to 5.

- Assassin Class spell tic rate raised from 5 to 7.

- Asassin mana pool lowered from 0.75 to 0.65.

- Barbarian Special raised from 15 to 20.

- Mage Int bonus lowered from 1.3 to 1.25

@thornblackstar said:

I think ive played too much of this...

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@fredchuckdave said:

So nerf everything, for basically no reason? "Oh no, our single player game is becoming too not impossible when you reach higher levels, so let's give the Assassin even less mana to work with, and give the Mage even less of an Int boost, even though he's a fucking mage".

@bisonhero: I'm playing the gog version so no worries for me, might eventually patch when they put in new rooms etc. It does seem a bit silly but obviously timestop definitely needed some sort of balancing.

For Botis you can toss a Chakram at him as he charges and it will stop the charges and get multiple hits so also reliably doable at level 0. For Amon and Barbatos you have to be aggressive to keep them in the middle of the two alcoves (have to use the alcoves to dodge fire), and it is possible to dodge two enormous earth spires given the correct jump timing.

I'm pretty sure any form of damage will stop Botiseseses but the Chakram and Knife are the easiest/most reliable ways to do it mid-charge. And if you're careful, you can aggro Amon/Barbatos one at a time and deal with them individually as long as you don't go too far into the middle of the room. The worst part about those giant earth spires is that they persist even after the casting animation finishes and the corresponding mage can begin casting again before the stupid spike goes away. Muy malo if they both then decide to do fire attacks.

I accidentally found an almost safe zone in for the plant minibosses, hard to describe exactly (3 stops to the left of the door roughly) but 95% of the shots don't land there so you can just jump up and attack and repeat as necessary. Giant skeletons are luck based after the first one but doable even without ADHD.

Also finally got the megaman spike drop rune chest (with a normal speed character), it's basically 1 2 3 and then hold in the direction of the fall; you'll probably run into spikes at the bottom but you'll reach the chest before that and that counts as a success and allows you to open it.

Any tips for Booyan's games? I got <10 targets remaining on the axe one but I always fuck up the knife game.

@ravenlight: I do it adjusting by the target's location, first one I jump slightly ahead of it, second 1/3rd of the screen, third right after it bounces off the bottom, after that it varies a bit, sometimes you want to throw as it is passing your character since it moves quickly enough to move back to that point, adjust for speed and proximity; I still only get it about half the time even doing this though since it requires jump precision in addition to throwing precision.

Fire shield also murders the shit out of Botis as long as he doesn't one shot you with a wave hit; I guess that's why he has the ability to shoot downwards.

I think Endomorph/Gigantism is my favorite character roll just for comedy purposes, so much attack range it's silly.

So what's a good level to beat the final boss at for the first time? I just did it at level 111 (with most of my points in armor, health, and attack damage) by trying it repeatedly as soon as it unlocked, but now I feel very underpowered for NG+ and kind of ripped off. I could have been easily getting over 20k per full run of the castle if I'd chosen to farm more before fighting the final boss, but now I can barely make it past a handful of rooms and am lucky to earn more than 3000 or so.

Did I make a mistake by ending the game rather than farming my level up for a long time? Or am I just not good enough at dodging the NG+ high-level enemies and their attack patterns?

@moonwalksa: Best way to play when you're underpowered is just blitz the chests with a spelunker and run past as many enemies as possible, eventually the entire game becomes that in NG+2/3 and beyond; though NG+ I found to be somewhat manageable.

You probably bought the wrong stats. Shinobi can beat the final boss at 60 if they go full damage and the player dodges pretty well. Meanwhile, if you dumped your money into junk stats (like the 1.5% chance to survive a fatal blow, that's a huge waste of gold), not only do you lose the gold you spend but the price of everything you buy from then on goes up 10g, which adds up very fast if you buy even 5 or so stats that aren't crucial to your build.

This is why a lot of people don't spend a single gold in mana or spell power.

A lot of weird assertions in this post; to be clear you can try to min max in this game but the best way to do that is to stack mana and attack and play exclusively arch mages with timestop; it's much more a game to explore and figure out what to do for yourself. The Barbarian is the best class against the last boss because of the shout (though the Paladin is good too), but more importantly things like the size of your character are actually more useful than which class you choose since you need to have more melee attack range than the boss does. The 1.5-15% chance to survive a fatal blow is extremely good in NG+2/3 etc. Only incredibly boring people play exclusively Shinobis and avoid exploring the upgrade tree, and of course they're almost entirely useless after NG+1

Well, now that I've played a bit more into NG+ I'm having a much easier time of it. The biggest problem had nothing to do with my leveled stats, it was just a matter finding enough NG+ quality equipment. Now that I've got a better sword and some other new gear, I'm one-shotting or two-shotting everything with a Hokage or Spellsword, just like I was in the normal game.

But man, getting over that hump before finding NG+ blueprints was painful. Starting out with such low offensive power meant that most of the classes without high strength or empowered spells were basically useless, since they'd just get swarmed by flying enemies and die near the start of every room.

So what level did you beat the final boss at?

NG+3 cleared. Am I just getting better at the bosses, or are they getting easier? The random levels are far, far more deadly.

The last achievement I have to get requires me to find all the swords and armor. Sort of wishing I did that on NG or NG+1. Probably should roll a Spelunker to get a general feel for the layout of the castle and rush the chests with an Assassin. Anyone have any better ideas?