Saints Row 4 Equality

#1 Posted by MikeLemmer (442 posts) -

So I just finished Saints Row 4 and I'm thinking to myself, "This may be the most progressive game I've played all year." Here's my arguments for:

  • As in Saints Row 3rd, plenty of customization options for your character.
  • Kinzie is your second-in-command and the most important homie in the game. Almost nothing is made of her gender.
  • Everyone (except Keith Davis) is willing to romance the Boss, regardless of gender. There's as much (or as little) romance as you want; no one is the canon "love interest".
  • There's only 1 "ho mission": stopping a virus that turns people into gimps & hos, which ends with you getting some side effect and doing a "sexy dance" regardless of gender.

Thoughts?

#2 Posted by Drebin_893 (2872 posts) -

No thoughts whatsoever, to be completely honest with you.

#3 Posted by DeeGee (2096 posts) -

My thoughts are that ending a question or a topic with "thoughts?" is a terrible way to start a discussion.

#4 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1278 posts) -

I have no opinions about this topic. It is unsafe to have an opinion about gender in games on the internet.

#5 Edited by Brodehouse (9370 posts) -

When everyone was ready to romance your character regardless of gender in Dragon Age 2 it made people upset.

#6 Posted by believer258 (11034 posts) -

Everyone (except Keith Davis) is willing to romance the Boss, regardless of gender. There's as much (or as little) romance as you want; no one is the canon "love interest".

No orgies with everyone?

#7 Edited by CheapPoison (708 posts) -

progressive cause there is only one ho mission. Oh my games have gone of the deep end.

#8 Edited by Noblenerf (253 posts) -

Keep in mind that the first Saint's Row IV DLC is "Enter the Dominatrix," so there's still plenty of chances for SR4 to bog itself down as far as progressiveness is concerned.

When everyone was ready to romance your character regardless of gender in Dragon Age 2 it made people upset.

Saint's Row IV has perfect the Biowareian Romance System (or BRS) - boiling it down to the essentials - which is why there's no brouhaha surrounding its implementation.

#9 Edited by EpicSteve (6433 posts) -

Videogames are so weird. It's the only place where people go, "A WOMAN as a character, that's so crazy!" Something about even noticing that is kinda creepy.

I actually interviewed the founder of GaymerX, the first major LGBT convention, and he even said the lack of homosexuality in story is likely because it's an extreme minority group and if you're a creative writer you're most likely just going to draw from experiences that are immediately in front of you. Not in a bigotry fashion, but I'm a straight male that has never really interacted with LGBT, so I'm just likely to make characters that are based on people that are in the forefront of my life.

#10 Posted by Iodine (532 posts) -

So, Saints Row, like Wu-Tang, is for the children?

#11 Posted by Demoskinos (13830 posts) -

Who cares? Seriously. Saints row doesn't make a huge deal out any of this so why should we?

#12 Posted by Splodge (701 posts) -

Boobs.

Online
#13 Posted by AlexanderSheen (4656 posts) -

Yes, that's the first thing that comes to mind when finishing SRIV: "This may be the most progressive game I've played all year."

Not "What a fantastic fucking game" but "This may be the most progressive game I've played all year."

Most Progressive Game of the Year!

#14 Edited by RuthLoose (740 posts) -

I mean, come on, guys, it's no Brothers!

#mostprogressivegameoftheyear

#15 Posted by GreggD (4439 posts) -

fuck sake

#16 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -

Ugh, it's like you're TRYING to start a gender or feminism flamewar. I hope this thread gets locked.

#18 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5750 posts) -

My thought is that I think most games aren't all that sexist, so none of the things you've pointed out seem that interesting.

#19 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5750 posts) -

My thought is that I think most games aren't all that sexist, so none of the things you've pointed out seem that interesting.

#20 Edited by Strife777 (1428 posts) -

You know, I'm starting to feel like the fact that people go out of their way to point out stuff like that about games might be the problem.

"LOOK! LOOK! This game isn't sexist, it's got wo-men in it! And they're treated like normal people too!"

Do we ever say that about any other medium whether it's true or not? Calling it progressive is even worse, as if it was deserving of praise. Like yeah, good job, you made a character that's like a human being, or at least what that amounts to in that universe, regardless of it's color of skin, gender, sexual orientation, favourite dish and the toothpaste they use. Nicely done...

Edit: Actually, I'll say that yes, good writing is commendable. But why do people feel the need to point out the fact that it's a good "female character", why not just a good character? What, most male video game characters are well written in comparison?

Edit 2: I'm also realising my post doesn't necessarily answer the point you're making, but you get the idea. :P

Online
#21 Posted by Milkman (16218 posts) -

@missacre said:

Ugh, it's like you're TRYING to start a gender or feminism flamewar. I hope this thread gets locked.

How is he trying to start a flamewar? He's right.

It's okay to talk about games, even silly ones like Saints Row, on a level beyond "derp it's fun." I swear, you guys can do it. Just try.

#22 Edited by Blackout62 (1302 posts) -

Let me just suss this out in one post. Yeah, it's a progressive game. What, you wanna fight about it or somethin'?

Huh?

No? Great, let's go not let the fighting game community get away with stuff some more.

#25 Edited by Missacre (566 posts) -

@milkman said:

@missacre said:

Ugh, it's like you're TRYING to start a gender or feminism flamewar. I hope this thread gets locked.

How is he trying to start a flamewar? He's right.

It's okay to talk about games, even silly ones like Saints Row, on a level beyond "derp it's fun." I swear, you guys can do it. Just try.

How is he right? By pointing out how "progressive" this game is, he's exacerbating the problem itself, as if people can't make the connection themselves. I never once thought of the game as "progressive," I just had fun with it, and that should be the ultimate goal when playing a game, not checking to see if it's sexist or not.

Besides, he just defeated his own argument the second he posted the OP, because isn't the goal of that kind of thing to blend in subtly, and not scream LOOK AT ME I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE PLAY ME NOW but no, someone just HAS to point out how incredibly not sexist the game is.

#26 Posted by Milkman (16218 posts) -

@missacre: I don't see what's wrong with praising a game for doing something right. You're right that Saints Row (rightfully) doesn't make a big deal about this but why is it a bad thing to say "hey, more games should be like this"?

#27 Edited by Tru3_Blu3 (3150 posts) -

@strife777:

I agree with you. It's why I fucking hate the term "strong female character".

#28 Posted by nsmb2_mario (72 posts) -

This is a joke topic, right?

#29 Edited by JoeyRavn (4883 posts) -

I mean, come on, guys, it's no Brothers!

#mostprogressivegameoftheyear

Excuse me. I think you mean Siblings.

#30 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

No. Please just stop. To quote Reggie: "PLAY THE GAME!"

#31 Posted by Shorty (19 posts) -

You know, I'm starting to feel like the fact that people go out of their way to point out stuff like that about games might be the problem.

"LOOK! LOOK! This game isn't sexist, it's got wo-men in it! And they're treated like normal people too!"

Do we ever say that about any other medium whether it's true or not? Calling it progressive is even worse, as if it was deserving of praise. Like yeah, good job, you made a character that's like a human being, or at least what that amounts to in that universe, regardless of it's color of skin, gender, sexual orientation, favourite dish and the toothpaste they use. Nicely done...

Edit: Actually, I'll say that yes, good writing is commendable. But why do people feel the need to point out the fact that it's a good "female character", why not just a good character? What, most male video game characters are well written in comparison?

Edit 2: I'm also realising my post doesn't necessarily answer the point you're making, but you get the idea. :P

I think the point of calling it "progressive" was to point out that in a medium where most developers either get it wrong or, worse, don't even try, it is deserving of praise when a developer gets it right. In the same way that a toddler is praised for taking their first steps unassisted because up until that point they weren't capable of doing that. It's the steps taken towards a goal that count.

@missacre said:

@milkman said:

@missacre said:

Ugh, it's like you're TRYING to start a gender or feminism flamewar. I hope this thread gets locked.

How is he trying to start a flamewar? He's right.

It's okay to talk about games, even silly ones like Saints Row, on a level beyond "derp it's fun." I swear, you guys can do it. Just try.

How is he right? By pointing out how "progressive" this game is, he's exacerbating the problem itself, as if people can't make the connection themselves. I never once thought of the game as "progressive," I just had fun with it, and that should be the ultimate goal when playing a game, not checking to see if it's sexist or not.

Besides, he just defeated his own argument the second he posted the OP, because isn't the goal of that kind of thing to blend in subtly, and not scream LOOK AT ME I'M BEING PROGRESSIVE PLAY ME NOW but no, someone just HAS to point out how incredibly not sexist the game is.

So we're supposed to notice it, but not let anyone else know that we've noticed it? Doesn't that sound a tad ridiculous?

#32 Edited by Giantstalker (1443 posts) -

Because making it this way was just easier, that's all I see it as.

#33 Posted by Doskias (280 posts) -

I don't think the game is particularly progressive. I just think it isn't regressive.

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