The $50 Million Dollar Shenmue Question

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#101 Posted by Ffenix (35 posts) -

The problem with most of Sega's games are that they're purely an arcade kind of experience. Shenmue on the other hand was ambitious. Sure the gameplay is broken, and yes it's pacing could be better, but Shenmue is one of a few games which I played not for the gameplay, but for the "payoff" (in this case, its story).
 
It's kinda like how Jeff gave Comic Jumper a 4 out of 5, even though the game itself is kinda bad. He liked the game because of the "payoff", the ridiculousness of the FMVs.
 
Now, I'm not gonna hold my breath and hope that Shenmue 3 will be released. I stopped caring years ago.

#102 Posted by ImperiousRix (2963 posts) -

Great article. 
As someone who never played Shenmue when it was NEW, I'd just like an opportunity to play it.  Why can't Sega just make a port or a remastered version.  No, that won't placate fans still wanting a new one, but at the very least it would show their good faith and desire not to abandon the franchise.  Would it really be that hard?

#103 Posted by ArjanN (119 posts) -

They keep making Sonic games because suckers keep buying them and they're cheap to make, so they make money.
 
They wouldn't need 50 million dollar to make Shenmue 3 though, The Witcher 2 for example only had an 8 million dollar budget.
#104 Posted by martez87 (67 posts) -

They manage to make a new Yakuza game near enough every year. I would be happy enough with Shenmue 3 being on the same level as Yakuza, they are fine games. The next Shenmue doesn't have to be a £100, 000, 000 game like the first. Also pretty sure Shenmue would sell just as well if not better than Yakuza.

#105 Edited by BlazeHedgehog (1082 posts) -

The sequel to NiGHTS probably also didn't receive the warmest reception because it was rushed to market and sloppy as hell. To this day, I adore the original NiGHTS on the Saturn and pretty much everything I enjoyed about it was utterly ruined in Journey of Dreams. I think I made it about halfway through Journey before I threw my hands up because I honestly could not take how offensively horrific everything about it was. The story, the voice acting, the level objectives, the controls, the framerate... not many people played the original NiGHTS, but it is truly shocking just how completely they destroyed any of the original game's charm. Imagine everything bad about the Sega Dreamcast Sonic games and they're out in force in Journey of Dreams, worse than ever.

#106 Posted by tekshow (67 posts) -

It's the truth. We beg for things to be "fresh and new" and we also want things old and familiar. Then when we get either one there's a tendency to complain about it. This year's E3 was more about the evolution of everything familiar being turned out into top quality experiences.  
 
Then the press complained that there really weren't any suprises. "Oh Halo 4 and Vita, we knew about that..."  
 
When the Wii U was revealed however it's dubbed "confusing" and everyone revolts about how it can't possibly turn out well. How could it? It is so different from current consoles with horsepower that's just catching up. Nintendo to their credit has made the DS and the Wii a huge success and I have to reserve judgement at least a little longer that they might just know what they're doing. Even if it isn't pleasing to the press or the hardcore gamer all the time they know how to make serious truckloads of money.  
 
One of the questions in human life is "what do I want out of this?" Until each person answers that for themselves they can be very tough to serve in any capacity. It's also one of the mysteries that can take us the longest to figure out. 

#107 Edited by SuperfluousMoniker (2907 posts) -

As someone who's never actually played it and always really wanted to, I'd like to see a new Panzer Dragoon. Or how about a new non-online Phantasy Star game, on the DS or Vita or something? I'd be down for that.
 
And Sonic 4 was decent, god dammit. Decent.

#108 Posted by itsVASH (172 posts) -

at this point i just wana see how the story unfolds... yea it may be a shitty game to some and a shitty story to some ass well... but have too many fond memories of it as a kid... at this point just want some closure... i mean hell... shenmue 2 was the only reason i bought an xbox

#109 Posted by Tebbit (4449 posts) -

@SuperfluousMoniker said:

As someone who's never actually played it and always really wanted to, I'd like to see a new Panzer Dragoon. Or how about a new non-online Phantasy Star game, on the DS or Vita or something? I'd be down for that.

And Sonic 4 was decent, god dammit. Decent.

Need I remind you about the last boss?? NEED I!?!

#110 Posted by SherlockHyde (15 posts) -

I would love to finally see an and to the Shenmue story, but more than that, I think I would like to seen another Panzer Dragoon rpg.  Saga is to this day one of my favorite games ever, mostly for the battle system and dragon customization, such as it is. 
 
Seriously, Panzer Dragoon Funf needs to be made.  Or a Sonic RPG with the battle system from PDS.  I think one of the biggest failures of Sonic Chronicles was that Sonic was never constantly running in battle.
#111 Posted by twelve1784 (114 posts) -

I think NiGHTS 2 would have done better as a downloadable title for PSN and Xbox.  I could be wrong about that, but I would have bought it for sure.

#112 Posted by twelve1784 (114 posts) -

Also I would buy Shenmue 3 at nearly any price, but I'm also a mite insane

#113 Posted by John1912 (1830 posts) -

Shenmue is hugely over rated.  Very novel game, but the combat is piss poor, and who the fuck wants to drive a fork lift as your day job in game.  Shenmue captured a slice of simulated life that worked for its time.  I dont know how much of the original concept is really salvageable.  Some how I see a Shenmue meets uncharted if they ever revamp it.

#114 Posted by chronicsmoke (996 posts) -

I just played through shenmue 1 and 2 again about a week ago and I still want a shenmue 3 just as much as I ever did

#115 Posted by Xpgamer7 (2376 posts) -

I often go back and play old games. Compared to the big budget games of today they aren't as polished or as high quality altogether. Still they're fun to play with plenty of charm. If Sega were more creative with it's approach to remaking games rather than trying to copy generic ideas that make up other low budget games they'd have a much easier time. Maybe trying to focus their efforts more on one or two games at a time, and giving said games more care and attention for a few years.

#116 Edited by Eoth (10 posts) -

Honestly I really feel SEGA is picking the wrong IP's to bring into this gen. 
I mean Golden Axe was never going to work as a retail title, the 2D brawler simply will not sell enough, but obviously going any other direction (a very poor action adventure title in this case) just makes it feel completely lost from the IP.
 
That said, SEGA owns awesome IP's that would serve incredibly well. A Panzer Dragoon Saga HD remake per example, as one of the least played yet best RPG's of older generation it would be a perfect title.
Burning Rangers is another title that's just perfect for this day and age. A fresh form of action game with 4 player co-op through Live or PSN with unique style and pace.
Obviously Shenmue is another, and personally I think succes of games like Heavy Rain, Yakuza and such show there is a (huge) market for that game, slap in HD remakes on PSN/XBL and you'd be all set. God of War Collection, BG&E HD and soon Team ICO HD collection, MGS HD have shown that people are very interested in HD remakes.
 
Also with Ninja Gaiden 3 turning into QTE-spamfest this would be the perfect time to bring a new Shinobi to the playing field. 
 
But SEGA also has a huge chance to take in the XBLA/PSN front. As said Golden Axe didn't work as full retail, but a new Golden Axe HD 2d brawler on Live/PSN? Just look at what Castle Crashers did and you'll know that it can sell well. Not to mention an HD version of Streets of Rage 4. I mean just look at how well that fan-made SoR game did. 
 
Honestly I fell SEGA has been making a lot of (really) bad choices over the last years/decade. Cause the IP's and potential is all there, but somehow they just keep failing at delivering them.

#117 Posted by Devoid (429 posts) -

Wait, there was a Vectorman reboot? WHY DID NO-ONE TELL ME

#118 Posted by Eyz (451 posts) -

I'm still a huge Sega fan to this day. But fanboys complaining about the Sonic games they'd want, or to have Shenmue back is ridiculous... 
The goal is just to have fun but people get lost or stuck in what they'd they think their nostalgia is... (if all those people asking for Shenmue 3 had actually bought a dreamcast/Shenmue back then...)

#119 Posted by ReyGitano (2467 posts) -

Everyone is re-releasing their games now. Ico, Metal Gear, Devil May Cry, God of War, Ocarina of Time, Star Fox, Halo, etc. Can Sega succeed in a market of re-releasing releases and reviving franchises? I'm not sure I care anymore.

#120 Posted by RaidenMitsuru (202 posts) -

Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

#121 Posted by Zealousadonis (133 posts) -

I picked up the Wii version of NiGHTS when it came out. It definitely wasn't as good as I had hoped, it just felt off. I can still go back and enjoy the first one, I have fairly recently. It's an unfortunate situation developers are in with these heavy nostalgia IPs and the financial risks involved. It has to be possible for SEGA to continue developing these games though, I mean Mario is still doing well. They just need to find an ideal way to adapt, which isn't going great with Sonic.  

#122 Posted by StrikeALight (1114 posts) -

All said Shenmue fans should pick up a PS3 and a copy of Yakuza 3 & 4. But saying that, would that send a clear message to Sega? - there must be a reason why 2-3 months after its release, I was able to pick up a copy for £15 (marked dwon from £40) new, on the high street.

#123 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
@StrikeALight said:

All said Shenmue fans should pick up a PS3 and a copy of Yakuza 3 & 4. But saying that, would that send a clear message to Sega? - there must be a reason why 2-3 months after its release, I was able to pick up a copy for £15 (marked dwon from £40) new, on the high street.

I was gonna pick it up for the zany Japanese culture. I just got done watching some great films from Japan so I thought I would pick up Yakuza 3 and 4 when Yakuza 4 was released.
 
But it turns out they edited out some content that would have been too weird for my western world perspective?
 
Like what the fuck do they think I want that game for? I want to go "Wow, Japan is fucking nuts, Earth is pretty awesome to be so different" when I played that game. But hearing them edit stuff out deflated my excitement to jump into some weird stuff. Sega can suck it along with this article.
 
I'm glad Patrick wanted to do a piece like this to add to the "Woes of Making Games" which I'm usually all for.....but I won't take it from Sega. They really don't know what they are doing.
 
Fuck yes I will buy a new Panzer Dragoon Saga.  I've had a genesis (my first console), saturn and a Dreamcast after I got a PS1. The dreamcast became my Third Strike and Marvel 2 machine for me and my friends for a long time. So it's a little disheartening to hear them throw in the towel....without ever getting into the ring. 
 
Sega is a shell of what it used to be.
#124 Posted by bricewgilbert (179 posts) -

LA Noir is Shenmue, but with in depth interactivity replace with deep conversations. I think people would be fine with that.

#125 Posted by auspiciousqueue (1298 posts) -

I've come to realize that there are things that are infeasible. Most the time we want those things.I don't blame SEGA.  I long for those nostalgic times and I enjoyed Shenmue but Shenmue 3 will never be what everyone wants and like it was stated, you can't please everyone. I'd read something that wraps the plot up.

#126 Posted by motang (62 posts) -
@HelicopterSpy: yeah I know what you mean, I like it way more than I should just because I sold mine.
#127 Posted by ProfessorK (816 posts) -

Sonic Colors is proof it can be done. Its just about the level of quality that goes into the games that the fans take issue with. Beast Rider was generic and gimmicky. Sonic 4 broke the physics on a game that was all about momentum. Granted some franchises will fare better on different platforms, like PSU on handhelds. Hell, even the Sonic Advance games were good.  
 
What I don't understand Is why give beloved series to unknown, or unproven studios? I say if they were to make Shenmue 3 give it to the Yakuza team. While it may not be a blockbuster, quality is assured.

#128 Posted by AgentofChaos (1565 posts) -

Does anyone consider Panzer Dragoon for the Kinect a good idea?

#129 Posted by oldenglishC (922 posts) -
@arcn:  
Try the Game Cube version. It has added content, it's cheaper and it plays on a Wii.
#130 Posted by treereet (18 posts) -

Eh, the Yakuza games and LA Noire don't have a feel anything like Shenmue for me even if they have a couple elements. The thing that made Shenmue special (and I'm not sure any game will ever match) is how much of a living world it felt like. Every npc had a backstory, went to work, out to eat, shopping, had a house, apartment or took the bus to the city. You could follow someone and watch their whole routine for the day and the next day they might do something else. Everything was hyper detailed. I remember hearing that 'clank' walking out of the house searching for where the sound was coming from and finally figuring out the bamboo thing filled with water and hit the rock making the noise.

There were endless hidden events, easter eggs and secrets so much so that people are still finding them. Obviously now the textures and models aren't as good as modern games but seeing the video or ryo walking down the street to a vending machine choosing a can of coke and drinking it absolutely floored me back in 1999. I don't think graphics will ever be able to reach that level of amazement that I felt then. Not to mention the soundtrack is still unparalleled.
 
If they ever do decide to make shenmue 3 they should just do it in the same fidelity as Dreamcast. The assets were already made for all 5 games so it probably wouldn't even cost much to do assuming AM2 still has them laying around. Like they did for the xbox port of Shenmue 2 maybe add bloom lighting bring it to HD resolution obviously and get decent modern voice actors. Sell it on PS3 and 360 for 40 bucks like the ps2 Yakuza games and voila. People forget  Shenmue was the best selling non Sonic Dreamcast game and it sold over 1.3 million on a system with a 9 million install base so it did better than any of Sega's recent games. They might as well take a chance on that rather than throwing money away on buying crap studios like Secrat Level.

#131 Posted by itsjoncharles (75 posts) -

Take a look at Sonic Generation and you'll realise the product if looking very, very good.

#132 Posted by StriderNo9 (1082 posts) -

@HelicopterSpy: Disagree, the console was innovative, powerful, easy to work with, and there were a number of good titles.

#133 Posted by StriderNo9 (1082 posts) -

Listen, the reason NiGHTS 2 didn't sell very well because it was on the Wii were 3rd party games go to die and because it wasnt a very good game. All Sega needs to do is release a DLC NiGHTS 3 with quality gameplay (not boring) and it can sell. They can't chalk up every game that didnt sell with "well people dont know what they want" yes we do, its quality.

#134 Posted by Stefan (519 posts) -

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

actually it is. VGA, broadband internet and most importantly great games

#135 Posted by GozerTC (456 posts) -

Sometimes I feel like the odd man out.  I don't have any fond nostaliga for Sega games.  Sure I had friends with Sega Genesis, heck I even had a dreamcast  yet nothing really gripped me.  Shenmue controlled horribly and looked bad to me so I never got into it.   
 
Don't get me wrong, I know where all the Sega fans are coming from as an Xcom fan I see the new game and cringe with horror and hope all at the same time as they take a franchise I grew up with and turn it on it's head.  Master of Orion 3?  Yeah been there too. 
#136 Edited by AddyMac (258 posts) -

I think what Sega is doing with Guardian Heroes is smart. Re-release the original as a download and use that to gauge interest in a sequel.

To that point, I hope beyond Beyond Good and Evil HD sold well.

#137 Posted by TheHBK (5463 posts) -

I think what we would need shenmue to be would be just a bigger better version of what was there before.  It had lots of jank and the voice acting was terrible.  The best analogue to that game that I can come up with is the stuff from bethesda.  It would not have open fields and stuff, just have a bigger city to explore, but small enough to walk around.  Just imagine all the cities in oblivion put together.  Shops and arcade games and side quests.  It would be like an RPG, just not with stats.  More like Zelda where you collect items and get new moves.  And story driven like before.  It would be easy to mess it up but not hard to follow what should be done.  Also, Fuku-San should return and get killed in the opening scene.

#138 Posted by DeadlyWolverine (32 posts) -

Dreamcast 2 bitches, Dreamcast 2! That will force SEGA to make good IPs.

#139 Posted by YukoAsho (2001 posts) -

The problem with Sega and Nintendo is that they want to have it both ways - they want to exploit nostalgia-goggled fans and yet get upset when said fans aren't pleased.  It's no one's fault but their own that they're unable to escape the past, especially since they rarely promote core games that aren't based on 20-year-old franchises.
 
Consider this - why isn't Activision constantly pestered for more Pitfall?  That was among the most successful game franchises of their past, but they're not chained to it.  Part of it certainly was that Pitfall wasn't the face of generations of consoles, but more importantly, Activision never centered it's company around any one game, so when future Pitfall games failed, the company was able to successfully move on, as they likely will when Call of Duty is no longer a thing.  Indeed, Activision is like most companies in this industry - yes, they rely on sequels, but their entire company isn't defined by the past, which offers a bit more freedom.
 
I've no sympathy for Nintendo or Sega, because both have made nostalgia their primary business model, and the past is rarely the gateway to the future.

#140 Posted by VengefulGiblets (13 posts) -

This article has a good point, and I'll add to the question:  Where do you go back to, when you release an updated version of these classics?
 
Phantasy Star is a perfect example. The experience with the RPGs (I'm thinking Phantasy Star II+) and the experience with the online version were completely different.  One had a focus on character development, story, and the world in which the events were unfolding.  It was at least as good as Final Fantasy in FF's heyday.  The other was.... well, it was PSO which, as far as I'm concerned, should never have been called "Phantasy Star".  I'll be uncharacteristically polite and leave my PSO comments at that.
 
But there exists the problem. Which do they pull inspiration from if they make another Phantasy Star?

#141 Posted by Bolgirk (23 posts) -

Personally have a lot of fond memories of Shenmue on my Dreamcast. I played hours and hours of it. It was new, and the production values at the time were amazing. I think Shenmue 3 as I'd hate to say it would be great if shrunk down into episodes and then released via XBLA, PSN, STEAM. This could allow for a slightly less demand on some production as it's a small 10-15 dollar episode.

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