To all the people trashing Gran Turismo 5:   At least that game *worked*.  Check this out:

Use a controller?  It sucks that a wheel doesn't work but meh.

Have you or has your source tried multiple wheels? Is it perhaps a problem with that wheel? I'm not trying to be dismissive but, as you said, it does seem like a huge over sight.

It is weird to me that my brother said this game was awful as well and he liked the first one.

"I'm not trying to be dismissive but, as you said, it does seem like a huge over sight. "

seems fine on xbox with a controller, maybe it's just a PS3 thing?

Only played a few minutes of it at a retailers but it was on 360 and was nothing like that. I actually thought it felt pretty good.

That is what happens when devs only take care with the 360 version and release awful ports for everyone else. What a load of shit.

And then again, a bunch of ungrateful gamers who acts like spoiled brats. That's really all I have to say to TC and his followers.

" seems fine on xbox with a controller, maybe it's just a PS3 thing? "

" And then again, a bunch of ungrateful gamers who acts like spoiled brats. That's really all I have to say to TC and his followers. "

" And then again, a bunch of ungrateful gamers who acts like spoiled brats. That's really all I have to say to TC and his followers. "

Weird, definitely doesn't have that problem on 360, but it still has the minor problem of not being a fun game  =/

It's to add weight to the steering.

" It's to add weight to the steering. "

" And then again, a bunch of ungrateful gamers who acts like spoiled brats. That's really all I have to say to TC and his followers. "

Killzone 2 was similarly broken at launch iirc.  I RQ'd out of that shit after about 30 minutes and never went back to it.

It sucks that it sounds like there was a bad port job on this game, and while I hate to see people get taken advantage of, as a consumer your 'rights' don't extend to the quality of a product, especially not when it comes to entertainment. Sure, if you bought a box of cups, and they were all broken, you should be able to return them. But videogames, like movies and books, are an intangible entertainment experience. If you pay money to see a shitty film or buy a crappy book, you can't really ask for your money back because it was 'broken'. 

" It sucks that it sounds like there was a bad port job on this game, and while I hate to see people get taken advantage of, as a consumer your 'rights' don't extend to the quality of a product, especially not when it comes to entertainment. Sure, if you bought a box of cups, and they were all broken, you should be able to return them. But videogames, like movies and books, are an intangible entertainment experience. If you pay money to see a shitty film or buy a crappy book, you can't really ask for your money back because it was 'broken'. 

People selling you something shitty is not a transgression of your human rights. By providing you with what they said they would, namely, a racing game that lets you drive cars and control it with a wheel, they completed the transaction, and technically have no legal obligation to support you any further. Obviously, it's in their interest to put out a good product, because negative word of mouth has a huge impact on sales, but they have a right to try and sell a bad product, and you have a right not to buy it.  Y'all should have waited for the reviews. 

"

Umm sorry but that is crap.  Noticeable delay is not an artistic choice it's a visible measure of broken function.  You shouldn't be talking from your arse and presenting farts as thoughtful commentary. "

Well that fucking sucks

" @SeriouslyNow said: 

Umm sorry but that is crap.  Noticeable delay is not an artistic choice it's a visible measure of broken function.  You shouldn't be talking from your arse and presenting farts as thoughtful commentary. "

Wasn't saying it was an artistic choice. It seems to be a poorly made product, but there's badly made crap everywhere. They're allowed to sell poorly made games, just as Old Navy is allowed to sell poorly made clothing. You're well within reason to say "I bought this shitty thing and it would be nice if they made it better", but not to say "I bought this shitty thing and they MUST make it better".  It's frustrating to spend your money on something that sucks, so it's natural to want to direct those feelings externally, but a lot of this frustration could have been averted by waiting to read the reviews.     "

" @GravityProof said:

" @SeriouslyNow said: 

Umm sorry but that is crap.  Noticeable delay is not an artistic choice it's a visible measure of broken function.  You shouldn't be talking from your arse and presenting farts as thoughtful commentary. "

Wasn't saying it was an artistic choice. It seems to be a poorly made product, but there's badly made crap everywhere. They're allowed to sell poorly made games, just as Old Navy is allowed to sell poorly made clothing. You're well within reason to say "I bought this shitty thing and it would be nice if they made it better", but not to say "I bought this shitty thing and they MUST make it better".  It's frustrating to spend your money on something that sucks, so it's natural to want to direct those feelings externally, but a lot of this frustration could have been averted by waiting to read the reviews.     "

Once again that is crap.  People who purchase something expect it to work, if it doesn't work then they are well within their rights to complain and/or ask for their money back, which clearly some people have already done (if you read through the thread).  Telling people that they should've waited for reviews and so the onus is on them is not only wrong (because a functional product is something people expect when they pay money for it), but also propagates the myth that people aren't empowered enough to return faulty goods or make their own decisions (reviews are useful as guides but shouldn't be used to identify issues like this which should be fixed before a product is released for sale - Shift has already been reviewed and previewed and this issue hasn't been mentioned - I wonder why that's the case?  Could it be that reviewers aren't reporting it?? SHOCK HORROR).  Consumers have power and just because you don't care to act on it, don't give people negative commentary and useless "I told you so" advice. "

to add on to the horrible PC port. No matter how low i put the steering sensitiveny, the car is doing power slides  :\

Lag and a baby on Xbox 360 (The title says no lag but the guy is distracted by the baby, apparently):

  

" @SeriouslyNow said:

" @GravityProof said:

" @SeriouslyNow said: 

Umm sorry but that is crap.  Noticeable delay is not an artistic choice it's a visible measure of broken function.  You shouldn't be talking from your arse and presenting farts as thoughtful commentary. "

Wasn't saying it was an artistic choice. It seems to be a poorly made product, but there's badly made crap everywhere. They're allowed to sell poorly made games, just as Old Navy is allowed to sell poorly made clothing. You're well within reason to say "I bought this shitty thing and it would be nice if they made it better", but not to say "I bought this shitty thing and they MUST make it better".  It's frustrating to spend your money on something that sucks, so it's natural to want to direct those feelings externally, but a lot of this frustration could have been averted by waiting to read the reviews.     "

Once again that is crap.  People who purchase something expect it to work, if it doesn't work then they are well within their rights to complain and/or ask for their money back, which clearly some people have already done (if you read through the thread).  Telling people that they should've waited for reviews and so the onus is on them is not only wrong (because a functional product is something people expect when they pay money for it), but also propagates the myth that people aren't empowered enough to return faulty goods or make their own decisions (reviews are useful as guides but shouldn't be used to identify issues like this which should be fixed before a product is released for sale - Shift has already been reviewed and previewed and this issue hasn't been mentioned - I wonder why that's the case?  Could it be that reviewers aren't reporting it?? SHOCK HORROR).  Consumers have power and just because you don't care to act on it, don't give people negative commentary and useless "I told you so" advice. "

If people are able to return it, that's great, and it's a sign that retailers clearly respect their potential customers more than the game's developer. But the game technically 'works'. When you put it in your machine it plays a driving game that is controlled by either wheel or game pad. It's not 'broken', it's 'bad'. 

The onus IS on consumers to inform themselves before they spend their money. The people who made the game and the people who sold it have no responsibility to tell you that something kind of sucks before trying to sell it to you. I'll restate the point; Selling a bad product is not a violation of consumer's rights. You don't have a right to buy quality products, you have a choice. 

"

" @Red12b:  Bottom line, people exaggerate when they're mad.
"

Keep thinking like that, keep telling yourself you're right, meanwhile consumers who do actually act like responsible, thinking adults will continue to complain and ask for returns.  The game doesn't work, it works poorly.  Something which works poorly is defective.  Much like your thought process.  Having a thought process and having an effective thought process aren't the same thing, even though they both require the firing of synapses. "

" @SeriouslyNow said: 

Keep thinking like that, keep telling yourself you're right, meanwhile consumers who do actually act like responsible, thinking adults will continue to complain and ask for returns.  The game doesn't work, it works poorly.  Something which works poorly is defective.  Much like your thought process.  Having a thought process and having an effective thought process aren't the same thing, even though they both require the firing of synapses. "

Let me restate the obvious. At no point am I saying you shouldn't try to return something you bought and weren't satisfied with, but I don't feel that a retailer is required to let you, as unlike the cups in the example I used earlier, this game is not broken in the traditional meaning of the word. 

I've heard your argument, but your statement "This game doesn't work, it works poorly" contradicts itself. If it works poorly, then it works, and your issue with it is one of quality. We all want things to be good, but that doesn't mean we're entitled to it. As no one is forcing consumers to spend their money one way or the other, the decision is theirs, and consumers exercise complete buying autonomy when purchasing a videogame. A prudent consumer would utilise the resources (i.e. reviews) at their disposal to determine whether or not something is 'a Good Buy,' so it seems to me that the burden of responsibility is split evenly between the manufacturer of the product and the people choosing to buy it.

Furthermore, I'm concerned that your attempts to divide this issue with your straw man tactics are undermining your position. If you're going to reply again, would you mind actually addressing the opinions I've presented rather than dismissing them out of hand because you don't like them? 

"

" @GravityProof said: 
You buy a set of cups and they leak, you return them.  if 1 in every 6 piece set leaks in the store then the retailer returns them en masse to the manufacturer as long as the retailer has been made aware of the issue. if no customer complains, then nothing happens and the problem continues to remain unresolved.  Product recalls and patches exist for a reason and unless consumers speak out against broken products then retailers and manufacturers will continue to not take any responsibility unless pushed to do so.  You keep talking of reviews and yet I see no evidence in review or preview form of any awareness of the issue.  Reviews can speak to the quality of a product, but more often than not these days they speak to the nature of the product when it comes to entertainment.  I'm not dismissing anything, I'm saying that your argument of semantics is not a valid one because does nothing to address the issue at hand.  This thread is complaining of lag in a driving, lag which makes the game unplayable on many systems, control interfaces and platforms.  This thread isn't a venue for you to take some intellectual stance on the existential nature of CAVEAT EMPTOR.   Please, stop pretending you give a damn and just go on with your delusions of self importance and your belief that you are a prudent consumer.  You're actually just a person who likes to hear the sound of his own voice. "

" @Red12b: 

So then because the game sucks, the chart of the consumer's rights should be involved? Okay.

And no need to lower yourself on the insult wagon, I was just pointing out that Shift 2 is meant for entertainment, and people should take it for its many good points instead of concentrating on the bad ones.

Thus, calling this game '' Shit '' would be a bit overkill, since you probably all had fun with it.

Bottom line, people exaggerate when they're mad.

"

" @Klei said:

" @Red12b:  Bottom line, people exaggerate when they're mad.
"

Look for a single other post where I called a game shit and it was undeserved.
It's also rather alarming that you can't comprehend the following fact: a video game that centers around driving should allow the player to actually 

control the cars.

 

EDIT: Also, all you've done in this thread is to insult other posters.  Go away.

"

so is the delay due to the driving animation or does it actually affect the racing?

Wow what the fuck is wrong with you people? Are you seriously trying to defend a game that handles like that? 

Yo, that is messed up. I would be pissed too if that happened to me.

" @GravityProof:  Just more proof that you love to hear the sound of your own voice.  Give up already.  It's really boring hearing you reiterate the same bullshit line of thinking just because you can't back down.  You've worked in retail.  OH YOU'RE SO QUALIFIED.  Please show me how a 1 in 6 defect rate wouldn't ever equate to a product recall OR patch.  It's funny how you ignore the patch comment and take my example to the most extreme position possible.  I've worked as a games journalist and managed 3 retail stores at the same time, I've even sent boxes back on pallets CAUSING product recalls and this was back the mid 90s when manufacturers didn't have to live up to any sorts of standards beyond "does the disk load?".  Retailers and e-tailers who are interested in continued and repeat custom will respond to what their customers say.  In any case, your argument is still is broken as it was when you started this laughable exercise in caveat emptor and I told you so waffle.  Your solution is ridiculous and demands that consumers hang on the whims of the gaming press and offers no recourse or empowerment at all.  I must reiterate that you're a waffling egotistcal pseudo-intellectual who prefers an argument of semantics than a solution grounded in self empowering reality.  Unless you own this game or have any interest in it, please kindly fuck off.  "

" @SeriouslyNow said:

" @GravityProof:  Just more proof that you love to hear the sound of your own voice.  Give up already.  It's really boring hearing you reiterate the same bullshit line of thinking just because you can't back down.  You've worked in retail.  OH YOU'RE SO QUALIFIED.  Please show me how a 1 in 6 defect rate wouldn't ever equate to a product recall OR patch.  It's funny how you ignore the patch comment and take my example to the most extreme position possible.  I've worked as a games journalist and managed 3 retail stores at the same time, I've even sent boxes back on pallets CAUSING product recalls and this was back the mid 90s when manufacturers didn't have to live up to any sorts of standards beyond "does the disk load?".  Retailers and e-tailers who are interested in continued and repeat custom will respond to what their customers say.  In any case, your argument is still is broken as it was when you started this laughable exercise in caveat emptor and I told you so waffle.  Your solution is ridiculous and demands that consumers hang on the whims of the gaming press and offers no recourse or empowerment at all.  I must reiterate that you're a waffling egotistcal pseudo-intellectual who prefers an argument of semantics than a solution grounded in self empowering reality.  Unless you own this game or have any interest in it, please kindly fuck off.  "

So you're a games journalist who doesn't trust gamers to be well served by games journalists? At least I know you're taking yourself as seriously as I am. You sound like just the man I'd want as a consumer advocate. 

As an addendum: Many times, a 1 in 6 defect rate wouldn't equate to a recall of goods, as a recall precludes a distributor (or publisher, in my analogy) from making any earnings on that batch of products. In most cases, it would cost significantly less to refund customers (+ a goodwill bonus of say, 20%) who purchased the defective units than it would to recall, test, and repackage, or maybe even destroy the units in question. Even if a company only saw half of their projected returns on a product, it would be more revenue generated than if they pursued a recall. I made this point to illustrate that, since games are made on budgets and deadlines, it makes sense for a developer to focus their limited attentions on where the biggest chunk of the profits lie, to try and get what they can of what they may know will be a flawed product. My argument said nothing pertaining to patching the game after release, and I'm sorry if you didn't comprehend that.

I don't have an interest in this game, but it's not a conversation if everyone is saying the same thing, so I would contend that I've provided a valuable counter-point to the one sided complaining that came before. But we've clearly reached an impasse here, and so I shall proffer no more constructive and critical opinions. The ones that follow are destructive, inflammatory, and though I feel warranted, definitely fall into the 'trolling' category. 

I won't deny that I have enjoyed arguing with you. Really enjoyed it, actually. I enjoy imagining the sweat building up on your keyboard and your eyes bulging out as you have to restrain yourself from screaming at the monitor, I like imagining that you're stewing in your own contemptuous rage behind a desk in your bedroom or cubicle because you don't have more important things in your life to distract you from this insignificant tete-a-tete, and most of all I love knowing that for all your hatred of my pretentious and opulent verbosity you've poured over every word I've written in response. It's the little things. 

So now that we've both devalued this conversation by hurling personal insults at each other, I shall 'kindly fuck off'. I surrender, cowboy, and promise to allow whatever slanderous and stinging barbs you hurl at me go unquestioned forever in the annals of internet history. Happy weekend!

"

How many hertz is yo TV? I played Gaylo 3 on a 60 hz TV once and had the same problem.

" How many hertz is yo TV? I played Gaylo 3 on a 60 hz TV once and had the same problem. "

I don't think the Hz of the TV would make any difference, would it? Games are usually meant to be played in 60 Hz but I thought that Hz meant the smoothness of the screen, not the delivery time of the image

Well that's some serious shit. Seems like it'd be a fun game too, if it wasn't plagued with issues like this.

Has there been any word from EA?

" @teh_pwnzorer: I have seen a lot of people playing this "