My Journey in to Persona 4 animation: Ep 10

Posted by metalsnakezero (2288 posts) -
Rises of all kinds

We head back in to the TV this week, saving Rise and uncovering Teddie's hidden side.

Compare to Kanji's arc, this was a lot more straight to the point, avoiding the over the top humor with a more emphasis on Rise's other self. It's a interesting twist to have multiple Rises and not just the bikini top one, which helps work with the whole problem of Rise not being sure who she is. The scanning ability has a interesting concept to finding weakness. Where in the game it finds what elements are shadow is weak strong to, here is also pinpoints where on the body does the enemy has a chip in their armor. In a way, its a realistic approach to how it works and something that doesn't need to be added in but it is a nice detail. Again, they are really pushing the whole Yu X Rise relationship with all the scenes where Yu catching her, protecting her, and even Izanagi was doing a gentleman like hold with Himiko.

Teddie's event was pretty similar to how the game version want. However, the extra scene with him talking to his other self helps shows that Teddie does has some backbone and isn't about to push away his journey to founding out who he is. It also has some nice imagery of the foggy inners of Teddie's shadow self and both being cut in half.

Besides the main points of the episode, there was Kanji being all badass, putting on his shades and busting shadows up while rock music is playing in the background. There was also Yu's attempt at recording the midnight channel, which was a bit creepy at first, but finding out that it can't be recorded shows him that the midnight channel in some way is some sort of other worldly thing. So what was with the velvet room thing? Was Yu doing fusion for a future battle since he didn't use it in this battle?

While another person is saved, the Investigation team job is far from over as we all know too well. Next week human Teddie, more Naoto, and game world.

Investigation team, GO!

Highlight

The picture pretty much says it all
Time to bent some shadows!
Yeah, their not creepy at all
Izanagi, where are you holding her?
#1 Posted by metalsnakezero (2288 posts) -
Rises of all kinds

We head back in to the TV this week, saving Rise and uncovering Teddie's hidden side.

Compare to Kanji's arc, this was a lot more straight to the point, avoiding the over the top humor with a more emphasis on Rise's other self. It's a interesting twist to have multiple Rises and not just the bikini top one, which helps work with the whole problem of Rise not being sure who she is. The scanning ability has a interesting concept to finding weakness. Where in the game it finds what elements are shadow is weak strong to, here is also pinpoints where on the body does the enemy has a chip in their armor. In a way, its a realistic approach to how it works and something that doesn't need to be added in but it is a nice detail. Again, they are really pushing the whole Yu X Rise relationship with all the scenes where Yu catching her, protecting her, and even Izanagi was doing a gentleman like hold with Himiko.

Teddie's event was pretty similar to how the game version want. However, the extra scene with him talking to his other self helps shows that Teddie does has some backbone and isn't about to push away his journey to founding out who he is. It also has some nice imagery of the foggy inners of Teddie's shadow self and both being cut in half.

Besides the main points of the episode, there was Kanji being all badass, putting on his shades and busting shadows up while rock music is playing in the background. There was also Yu's attempt at recording the midnight channel, which was a bit creepy at first, but finding out that it can't be recorded shows him that the midnight channel in some way is some sort of other worldly thing. So what was with the velvet room thing? Was Yu doing fusion for a future battle since he didn't use it in this battle?

While another person is saved, the Investigation team job is far from over as we all know too well. Next week human Teddie, more Naoto, and game world.

Investigation team, GO!

Highlight

The picture pretty much says it all
Time to bent some shadows!
Yeah, their not creepy at all
Izanagi, where are you holding her?
#2 Posted by Commisar123 (1790 posts) -

I was really underwhelmed by this episode. It didn't really impress me from an emotional or comedic standpoint, with the exception of a quite chilling Shadow Teddy. I guess I was expecting a lot more from the series, especially after the phenomenal run of the last few episodes. I'm also not really sure how I feel about them moving so quickly into the next dungeon. I was hoping we could slow up and take a social link break, but I guess that will have to wait. With 15 more episodes to go, I'm worried there may be a really long stretch without much dungeoneering at all. Also does anyone know if they are taking a midseason break, or are they rolling right through?

#3 Posted by metalsnakezero (2288 posts) -

@Commisar123: I bet they will take a break for the up coming holidays but most likely start up near the first week of January. I would agree that slowing things down would help but I still say that the fast pacing is working now that we are deep in to the story. By the end I'll make a pre-DVD/Blu-ray release review of how the whole thing was handled.

#4 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

Yeah, I'm not too happy about them having included both Shadows in the same episode, like I posted in the discussion thread. I think they could have expanded on the characters' Shadows much more had they just taken their time like the other Shadow episodes. Even if I wasn't much of a fan on how they handled Kanji's, at least it didn't feel rushed and it was funny. Rise's and Teddie's Shadows just went by so fast and it was too fateful to how it happened in the game.  
 
Like others have been saying, it seems that the show's pace is quite fast. Like I had predicted would happen if they included both Shadows in a single episode, this kind of mirrored episode 1 in how quick things were going but it wasn't as egregious. But just for an interesting reference, the show is 40% done and we're at the 43.87% mark of the P4 Endurance Run.
 
Oh, and Chie didn't cast Bufu on Shadow Teddie, which is sad.

#5 Posted by NIveous (137 posts) -

Mmh. When you actually go to write out P4, what happens is that everything past the second note takes up a lot more space than you'd think. P4 is so story laden that you really can't take your time with only 25 episodes. Act 3, at the barest, is seven episodes long. Between there and episode 10 there's some wiggle room, but it's still tight. Especially without knowing what they'll do with S-Links.

I genuinely didn't have any issues with the pacing of this one. Rise's backstory was laid out in the whole of ep 9, so I feel like another Rise-centric episode would have actually been overkill. I'm a fan of what they accomplished in Yukiko's dungeon too, but Rise is Lovers, and wrapping her in metaphor doesn't mesh so well as it does with Yukiko's personality. Narukami doesn't have the Star yet either, so Teddie will be revisited. I'm curious, and in no way to be caustic, how you'd direct an entire episode about Shadow Teddie without it losing its momentum?

The animation itself was a treat after ep 9. I guess that's another thing-- if Rise wasn't set up well enough, that's a fault on ep 9, not ep 10. Shadow Teddie was excellent. As for the IT fighting poorly, Margaret predicted it: Hanged Man and Emperor. A dangerous situation in which you need to delegate power to another to survive. That's represented three times--with Kanji, Teddie, and with Rise at the end. (She didn't actually speak about fusion.) I swear, it's like they plan these things.

#6 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Another great episode. Looking forward to the sure to be legendary human Teddie reveal.

#7 Posted by Rehtayne (127 posts) -

A solid episode, if not slightly unremarkable. A few things did stick out to me though:

- They have yet to show Yukiko's persona heal anyone at all. While we know she can throw out Agi like crazy, it definitely isn't her primary role in the party. Then again, we haven't seen much of any of the stat altering skills be used by anyone else either. With Teddie getting his persona now, I'm hoping they at least show off his various party buffs. It would be a shame to skip the skills entirely, as it would remove a subtle aspect of characterization that I really enjoyed in the game.

- I thought Shadow Rise was handled extremely well in this episode. The game's approach of it mocking Rise was all right, but this felt far more like a malicious attack. I think it suited it well.

- Yukiko's line after Teddie saved them seemed completely out of character, and really just didn't fit the scene either.

- Having Shadow Teddie in the episode was the best thing to do, despite the pacing issues that may have resulted from it. I felt Shadow Teddie was one of the more memorable fights in the game, just because it came right after a near escape from death via Rise's Shadow. That and it's cold, empty demeanor provided an excellent tone of desperation and despair. The fight itself might have been little more than tedious (teddie-ous), but that really didn't matter as much. For Shadow Teddie to have its' own episode would have really undermined that. It might have even had the opposite effect and made both this and the next episode far too drawn out.

- Yu seemed to have loss his composure when Rise started clinging on to him, as he reverted back to the unsure, stammering Yu we saw way back in episode 1. While for a good amount of the episode did push a Rise relationship, this really stood out to me. Was it simply a pleasant surprise to him, or did it actually bother him? This is about the time where Rise does switch from a passive attitude to an aggressive one, and if the Ai social link has anything to say about it, Yu doesn't seem to be a fan of that sort of behavior. But for now, it's a wait and see moment again. Yu's personality is a fun curiosity, and it honestly has me looking forward to the rest of the series.

#8 Posted by FlarePhoenix (420 posts) -

I have to wonder what the reason behind their decision not to have the characters fight along side their Personas. I was actually looking forward to seeing that in real time, and it's a disappointment to me that they decided to just have them standing around. Yeah, having both Shadows in one episode was a mistake; in my opinion the episode should have ended when Shadow Teddie appeared and continued into the next one. I kind of wish the series would just take a breath once in a while; everything goes by so fast its difficult to take in sometimes.

#9 Posted by NIveous (137 posts) -

@FlarePhoenix: I agree, can't you just picture the epic? Though I think they'd run into problems in an anime that the game glosses over--like hiding weapons on themselves, storing them, so-I-heard-you've-been-selling-sharp-things-to-minors. At least they react to their Persona's injuries... In any case, I'm pleased with the way it is now. Yu can do fusions; that's more that I anticipated.

I got through watching all the Shadow battles last night and then concluded that we've been spoiled with Yukiko's and Kanji's dungeons. Rise's Shadow gets about as much screen time as Chie's, and Teddie's problems have been peeled back gradually. So, I dunno. How would you have scripted a whole episode for Shadow Teddie?

#10 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

@NIveous said:

Rise's Shadow gets about as much screen time as Chie's

Yes, but Chie's Shadow episode was supplemented with scenes of introspection and flashbacks.

@NIveous said:

Teddie's problems have been peeled back gradually.

Really? The only time that I've seen his problems hinted at were in this episode: when he rolls around in the beginning because he was lonely and when he mutters "There's no true me" to himself. It's not a question of being spoiled; it's a question of not having the anime be a literal translation from what we've already seen in the game—since this is obviously fan service—and have it flesh out the characters in a way that we didn't see in Persona 4. Since Yukiko's Shadow battle, none of the Shadow sequences have done that. And at least with Kanji's, even if it didn't help to flesh out his character, his Shadow battle was funny and made in a way that at least made it interesting (status effects, fusion, Kanji punching himself...). Rise's and Teddie's didn't have anything special going for them, even with Shadow Teddie pulling them into a void, with the exception of learning Ameno-Sagiri was behind his Shadow.

I don't know how I would have scripted an episode dedicated to Teddie's psyche; I'm not a writer. That's up to them to figure out. All I know is that the I didn't want both Shadow battles concluding in a single episode, because it made it feel rushed and not special.

#11 Posted by MrAristocrates (194 posts) -

They needed to put both into one because Teddie's Shadow probably couldn't carry an episode, and the episode needed to end where it did for the cliffhanger.

#12 Posted by NIveous (137 posts) -

Pssh, it would have been easy to shift the cliffhanger one episode.

@FluxWaveZ said:

All I know is that I didn't want both Shadow battles concluding in a single episode, because it made it feel rushed and not special.

Fair enough. I admit, I would have loved two episodes, I only don’t mind it being truncated. And to be completely selfish… I really wish this was coming out in two seasons. Everything could have been explored in its whole. Arguably nothing of substance happens in the drama CDs, but they are wonderful. Imagine that level of interaction in an anime. There are opportunities here, but they are constrained by the episode limit and their choice to go through all of the social links.

Yu still doesn’t have the Star Arcana, and here’s the thing—if they don’t make use of it, I will be upset. Mitsuo had better have some depth to him as well.

~

Nah, Teddie’s been whining about himself just like in the game, and like the game, he’s comical and no one takes him seriously. I distinctly recall watching the start of Kanji’s episode and thinking, ‘this is obviously set up for later’. In Yukiko’s too, he complains at the end, and Yosuke never lets him forget that he’s empty. There’s been stuff all over the place.

And again, Rise had a whole episode before this, and her self-reflection took place by the river. Her flashback got its own opening. I can appreciate wanting to see that moved to the dungeon, but it may be unfair to say it wasn’t there, or maybe I misunderstood.

~

@FluxWaveZ said:

It's not a question of being spoiled; it's a question of not having the anime be a literal translation from what we've already seen in the game—since this is obviously fan service—and have it flesh out the characters in a way that we didn't see in Persona 4.

Yes, and that was the joy of Yukiko’s episode, wasn’t it? I was so hoping we would get something similar with Kanji, anything really. To be honest, I was disappointed by that, despite scenes with Bunny Boy.

(As a side note, and as that rare Naoki fan, I was also disappointed with how the anime treated his S-Link, as if just crossing another Arcana off the list. However, Naoki is absolutely unimportant except for making saps like me feel really awful about the murders and liking the murderer. You didn’t get that in the anime, which is actually a regress from the game—but like I said, Naoki is a nobody. I don’t really have a right to whine over him. I will complain about not capturing the essence of his link, since they bothered at all.)

@FluxWaveZ said:

I don't know how I would have scripted an episode dedicated to Teddie's psyche; I'm not a writer.

Here goes?

-A Shadow Teddie episode… It would start with ST being all vacuum and sucking Teddie into itself.

-The IT, weakened but not so badly that they can’t function, fight against its pull. Rise would do her thing and scan ST.

-Meanwhile, we learn about all the NOISE that Teddie has been on about, and perhaps we get glimpses of the first two murders? Heck, there could be a link between that noose in Yamano’s room and ST’s whole nihilism. THAT would be kind of neat.

I’d also be a nice way to show, to the audience, exactly how awful these murders are, to really give you a reason to hate that murderer. To, at the hospital scenes, give you an appreciation for what exactly has been avoided.

-Outside, the IT devises some clever way to bypass the vacuum, using teamwork or whatever. Their new frustration is that while Rise knows exactly what they need to do, there’s no easy way to do it, cause WHAT IF THEIR PERSONAS ACTUALLY DO GET DRAGGED IN, HEY IZANAGI? So long story short, they need to weaken it.

Nothing is that simple. ST fights back, and the void is drawing in Shadows. So, a gravity battle while still trying to block attacks. This ordeal may have some effect—

-Inside ST, where we begin to grasp how much his existence sucks. The IT only comes when things go wrong, never to see him, leaving him alone with the Shadows. Maybe there are flashbacks here, from his POV. No one takes him seriously.

And what’s worse, while everyone else is discovering themselves, no one listens to Teddie’s distressed thoughts about his own origins. ST may play on this, the whole reality unstable somehow.

-The IT struggles on, but they come to realize that this is the place that they leave Teddie behind, day in and day out, and that they only ever get out because of him. These sentiments are amplified by the horde of Shadows pulled by the void, though even that is slowly thinning.

-In ST, we are now back to how things were in the anime, in the rainbow mire, and Teddie is sinking. The difference is, now when Teddie says he doesn’t want to disappear, we know that it’s in the face of living in a hollow world, and having to put up with Yosuke and abeardonment, and that he’ll accept all of it to find out who he is.

Then, as in the anime, there is that beautiful silence as ST considers. It’s nothing compared to Chie reaching out to Yukiko, but I like to think it’s a similar type of moment.

-And then the end as in the actual episode. Even after all the stuff he has to put up with, even so, and perhaps because of this (complete anthropomorphism, by the by—it is possible that the IT is projecting its introspection onto Teddie) he wants to discover his true self. When they all meet him at the end, it’s so much better, because we can see what he was struggling with.

It’s also a nice leeway into Teddie’s change.

How was that?

Spoilers for space. Tldr; you could probably make it work after all.

NOW, we can’t actually have a Shadow Teddie episode because Yu needs that Star Arcana, and that’ll take it’s own episode. Star Arcana can’t happen in the dungeon itself, since Teddie’s surprise is a better moment for it, and without the Link there, that event in the anime is diminished in its potential. If Star Arcana is not happening in the dungeon, it doesn’t make sense to unload Teddie’s issues there, since that’d make the S-Link episode really unnecessary. Probably their rationalization, anyway.

#13 Posted by MrAristocrates (194 posts) -

I'm not sure I would want to watch an entire Shadow Teddie episode anyway. As I said, he couldn't really carry an episode.

#14 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19307 posts) -

@MrAristocrates: That's because we never know much about him. That's like saying Yukiko couldn't carry an entire episode based on what we had seen of her in the game, yet she did just fine because the writers expanded on the character instead of just retelling what we had seen in the game.

#15 Posted by MrAristocrates (194 posts) -

But Teddie is mostly defined by our lack of knowledge about him at this point. Beyond the whole "emptiness" thing, there's not a lot for this Shadow to play off of. It's certainly not helped by the fact that Yu Souji Charlie hasn't made the promise to help him, because we haven't started the Star SL yet.

#16 Posted by Murra (5 posts) -

The thing that bothers me the most about this show,is the fact that adachi had so few screen time,by this time in the game you know(or rather think)that his a loveable idiot that is a terrible cop but is always a lacky of sorts.

on here we have seen him for like what 4 scenes? and one of them was merally him spying on the group while they were spying on rise?

eventually this will come up to be something like "oh look the killer is some random dude weve never met,oh well mystery solved,lets kick his ass for no actual reason."

#17 Edited by NIveous (137 posts) -

@Murra: What? There's lots of opportunity to get to know Adachi better. Isn't it the next episode that he brings Dojima back drunk? And he's already apprehended the murderer, silly. How could you think he's a poor cop? Edit: Haha, he's been in almost half of these episodes, actually.

However, I agree that they haven't fully developed his ineptitude, as much as we seem to gather of his character by this point in the game. We'll see how it goes, I guess. There's time to fix that.

Also, is anyone else bothered that they can never draw his face right?

#18 Posted by MrAristocrates (194 posts) -

Hey guys, people read this forum who might not have played the game or watched the ER. Can you spoiler mark that?

#19 Posted by TehFlan (1944 posts) -

Kanji was the best part of this episode.

#20 Posted by SilvarusLupus (310 posts) -

@NIveous said:

Also, is anyone else bothered that they can never draw his face right?

You're just gonna be on that forever aren't you, silly?

Still predicting Star SL will be next episode when he goes all human. Actually, about that, they theoretically could have put the Star link in this episode. I mean, in the game you got to rank 2 with Teddie after you saved Rise. I wonder why they didn't add the link in with Rise this episode? Hmmm.

#21 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -

@SilvarusLupus said:

@NIveous said:

Also, is anyone else bothered that they can never draw his face right?

You're just gonna be on that forever aren't you, silly?

Still predicting Star SL will be next episode when he goes all human. Actually, about that, they theoretically could have put the Star link in this episode. I mean, in the game you got to rank 2 with Teddie after you saved Rise. I wonder why they didn't add the link in with Rise this episode? Hmmm.

I doubt the Star Social Link will happen until a very key moment later in the story.

People that have played the game should know what event I'm referring to.

#22 Posted by SilvarusLupus (310 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@SilvarusLupus said:

@NIveous said:

Also, is anyone else bothered that they can never draw his face right?

You're just gonna be on that forever aren't you, silly?

Still predicting Star SL will be next episode when he goes all human. Actually, about that, they theoretically could have put the Star link in this episode. I mean, in the game you got to rank 2 with Teddie after you saved Rise. I wonder why they didn't add the link in with Rise this episode? Hmmm.

I doubt the Star Social Link will happen until a very key moment later in the story.

People that have played the game should know what event I'm referring to.

Hmm, good point. Didn't even think of that for some reason. That is likely too. But then who would be the best to put in the upcoming episode? Unless they are just doing another blank card.

#23 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -

@SilvarusLupus: If a Social Link occurs in the next episode, it will likely be one of the non-party Social Links.

#24 Posted by SilvarusLupus (310 posts) -

@Hailinel: Judging by the preview though, I don't see any indication of that happening. But hey, I could be completely wrong. -shrugs-

#25 Edited by NIveous (137 posts) -

@SilvarusLupus said:

@NIveous said:

Also, is anyone else bothered that they can never draw his face right?

You're just gonna be on that forever aren't you, silly?

It is a sore point.

#26 Posted by Murra (5 posts) -

@NIveous said:

@Murra: What? There's lots of opportunity to get to know Adachi better. Isn't it the next episode that he brings Dojima back drunk? And he's already apprehended the murderer, silly. How could you think he's a poor cop? Edit: Haha, he's been in almost half of these episodes, actually.

However, I agree that they haven't fully developed his ineptitude, as much as we seem to gather of his character by this point in the game. We'll see how it goes, I guess. There's time to fix that.

Also, is anyone else bothered that they can never draw his face right?

well yea he appreahanded the murderer.... or just some random stalker,which was pointed out already BEFORE rise got kidnapped...

#27 Posted by NIveous (137 posts) -

@Murra said:

well yea he appreahanded the murderer.... or just some random stalker,which was pointed out already BEFORE rise got kidnapped...

... :)

Nah, that was the culprit, all right.

No two ways about it.

For everyone else, I'm guessing Star Arcana next episode.

#28 Posted by Murra (5 posts) -

@NIveous said:

@Murra said:

well yea he appreahanded the murderer.... or just some random stalker,which was pointed out already BEFORE rise got kidnapped...

... :)

Nah, that was the culprit, all right.

No two ways about it.

For everyone else, I'm guessing Star Arcana next episode.

wasen't it already pointed out tho?

#29 Posted by WatanabeKazuma (989 posts) -

@SilvarusLupus said:

@Hailinel: Judging by the preview though, I don't see any indication of that happening. But hey, I could be completely wrong. -shrugs-

The mention of "The Junes Prince" in the trailer for the next episode makes me think they might be touching on Yosuke a little bit, specifically his inferiority complex which flares up around Yu. They really need to have the scene where they have their Rocky 3 freeze-frame ending fight at some point.

@NIveous said:

@Murra:

Also, is anyone else bothered that they can never draw his face right?

In fairness this bothered me for quite a while, I've got over it though. Especially after last episodes Poker Face covention ™

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