My Journey in to Persona 4 animation: Ep 5

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Posted by metalsnakezero (2309 posts) -
I like balls!

I did question how the adoption was going to handle some of the social link arcs. However, I wasn't expecting them to make it this short.

With Ai Ebihara Moon social link, it was a nice twist to introduce her in the beginning when Yu joins the basketball team. Just like the game, she is pushy ice queen who falls for Ichijo, but only to feel rejected when Kou tells Yu that he likes Chie (Good choice :D). From here the show takes a interesting twist with her arc where Ai only uses Yu as a stand in for a boyfriend and after understanding her situation, with a small slapping fight with Chie, comes to terms with what she needs to do to make people like her. This was the route I took in the game since it made Ai a interesting person when it didn't involve falling for the main character to solve her issues.

While Ai's arc want pretty well I can't say the same for Kou's arc as it was just a few lines of dialogue and resolved pretty quickly. What they should had done was split it up and have it pop after every social link episode to better develop Kou. Also will they do something Daisuke Nagase? You see what makes the Strength social link interesting is the bonding of Kou, Daisuke, and Yu and we don't really build on that here. Maybe they will come back to this later on but I just hate to see it end here.

As someone who has seen the Japanese version of the game, it nice to listen to Itou Kanae fully voice Ai as she does a good job playing pushy character with that voice of hers. Daisuke Ono also does a good job with Kou with a nice cheerful voice which is a interesting contrast to his other roles (One involving throwing vending machines). We also get to see the anime original character, Aika Nakamura for a few seconds which is a bit odd as it didn't lead up to anything but hey I get to hear Aoi Yūki :D Also missed opportunity for the ramen scene on the roof, should had been longer.

Despite some issues, the episode held up well for what it did. Next week we have the Kanji arc with a splash of Nanako Golden week. So least get bent! Investigation team, GO!

Highlights

Seriously dude, you need to build you diligence some other way!
Nice moves Yosuke
Galactic slap!
#1 Posted by metalsnakezero (2309 posts) -
I like balls!

I did question how the adoption was going to handle some of the social link arcs. However, I wasn't expecting them to make it this short.

With Ai Ebihara Moon social link, it was a nice twist to introduce her in the beginning when Yu joins the basketball team. Just like the game, she is pushy ice queen who falls for Ichijo, but only to feel rejected when Kou tells Yu that he likes Chie (Good choice :D). From here the show takes a interesting twist with her arc where Ai only uses Yu as a stand in for a boyfriend and after understanding her situation, with a small slapping fight with Chie, comes to terms with what she needs to do to make people like her. This was the route I took in the game since it made Ai a interesting person when it didn't involve falling for the main character to solve her issues.

While Ai's arc want pretty well I can't say the same for Kou's arc as it was just a few lines of dialogue and resolved pretty quickly. What they should had done was split it up and have it pop after every social link episode to better develop Kou. Also will they do something Daisuke Nagase? You see what makes the Strength social link interesting is the bonding of Kou, Daisuke, and Yu and we don't really build on that here. Maybe they will come back to this later on but I just hate to see it end here.

As someone who has seen the Japanese version of the game, it nice to listen to Itou Kanae fully voice Ai as she does a good job playing pushy character with that voice of hers. Daisuke Ono also does a good job with Kou with a nice cheerful voice which is a interesting contrast to his other roles (One involving throwing vending machines). We also get to see the anime original character, Aika Nakamura for a few seconds which is a bit odd as it didn't lead up to anything but hey I get to hear Aoi Yūki :D Also missed opportunity for the ramen scene on the roof, should had been longer.

Despite some issues, the episode held up well for what it did. Next week we have the Kanji arc with a splash of Nanako Golden week. So least get bent! Investigation team, GO!

Highlights

Seriously dude, you need to build you diligence some other way!
Nice moves Yosuke
Galactic slap!
#2 Edited by Rudeboy217 (1769 posts) -

I thought the cat fight was pretty great and yeah, when Kou and Yu were putting the balls away I immediately thought of "I love them balls".

Also I am pretty stoked to see Kanji in the next episode.

#3 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

Persona 4: The Animation - For all of your jealousy-induced catfighting needs!

#4 Posted by AndrewB (7666 posts) -

I like how joining the basketball team is canon (unless he joins the football team in the next episode).

Also, bitch-slap fight between Ai and Chie was great. And I'm also thinking Chie will end up as the canon love interest at the end of all this.

#5 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11904 posts) -

@AndrewB said:

And I'm also thinking Chie will end up as the canon love interest at the end of all this.

If this happens, everyone wins. Except those Rise fanboys. But those guys don't exist, right?

#6 Posted by AndrewB (7666 posts) -

@ArbitraryWater: They don't.

#7 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19367 posts) -

I don't think there will be any real love interest for Yu.

#8 Posted by metalsnakezero (2309 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ: Yu doesn't show any interest in anyone as of now but probably later on.

@ArbitraryWater said:

@AndrewB said:

And I'm also thinking Chie will end up as the canon love interest at the end of all this.

If this happens, everyone wins. Except those Rise fanboys. But those guys don't exist, right?

@AndrewB said:

@ArbitraryWater: They don't.

I think that just applies to the Giant bomb audience.

#9 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -

This entire episode makes me fucking rage.  End of story.  You don't condense two 10 step Slinks into 30 minutes or else you turn meaningful character developments and relationships into a fucking slapstick comedy.  God fucking dammit you fucking show.  There's a lot more to say than just the pacing but I need to wait for my blood pressure to drop some first.
 
I feel so vindicated for all the criticisms I've thrown at the show for its treatment of slinks with side characters and that kinda sucks.

#10 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@Turambar said:

This entire episode makes me fucking rage. End of story. You don't condense two 10 step Slinks into 30 minutes or else you turn meaningful character developments and relationships into a fucking slapstick comedy. God fucking dammit you fucking show. There's a lot more to say than just the pacing but I need to wait for my blood pressure to drop some first. I feel so vindicated for all the criticisms I've thrown at the show for its treatment of slinks with side characters and that kinda sucks.

What did you expect? It's easier to slide the condensed development of an S. Link into a single episode of a twenty-five episode series than it is to develop each individual Social Link over time throughout the show. That's the nature of an adaptation; if you wanted each Social Link to be a ten-step process, you were bound to be disappointed regardless.

#11 Posted by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

@Turambar said:

This entire episode makes me fucking rage. End of story. You don't condense two 10 step Slinks into 30 minutes or else you turn meaningful character developments and relationships into a fucking slapstick comedy. God fucking dammit you fucking show. There's a lot more to say than just the pacing but I need to wait for my blood pressure to drop some first. I feel so vindicated for all the criticisms I've thrown at the show for its treatment of slinks with side characters and that kinda sucks.

What did you expect? It's easier to slide the condensed development of an S. Link into a single episode of a twenty-five episode series than it is to develop each individual Social Link over time throughout the show. That's the nature of an adaptation; if you wanted each Social Link to be a ten-step process, you were bound to be disappointed regardless.

I expected something fucking bad.  And that's exactly what I got.  I expected disappointment, and I got it.  They could have went with the infinitely wiser decision of not doing every single S.Link, or hell, they could have Strength, Moon, and Temperance (or whatever the music one is because we've already seen the pikachu girl as a cameo) all introduced in this episode, and have it be finished off in a future episode to at least give everything some contrived sense of development over time.  But nope, they chose the worst fucking route and crammed it all into 30 minutes.  Or in the case of Ichijo, into fucking 5 minutes.  God fuck this show.
#12 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@Hailinel said:

@Turambar said:

This entire episode makes me fucking rage. End of story. You don't condense two 10 step Slinks into 30 minutes or else you turn meaningful character developments and relationships into a fucking slapstick comedy. God fucking dammit you fucking show. There's a lot more to say than just the pacing but I need to wait for my blood pressure to drop some first. I feel so vindicated for all the criticisms I've thrown at the show for its treatment of slinks with side characters and that kinda sucks.

What did you expect? It's easier to slide the condensed development of an S. Link into a single episode of a twenty-five episode series than it is to develop each individual Social Link over time throughout the show. That's the nature of an adaptation; if you wanted each Social Link to be a ten-step process, you were bound to be disappointed regardless.

I expected something fucking bad. And that's exactly what I got. I expected disappointment, and I got it. They could have went with the infinitely wiser decision of not doing every single S.Link, or hell, they could have Strength, Moon, and Temperance (or whatever the music one is because we've already seen the pikachu girl as a cameo) all introduced in this episode, and have it be finished off in a future episode to at least give everything some contrived sense of development over time. But nope, they chose the worst fucking route and crammed it all into 30 minutes. Or in the case of Ichijo, into fucking 5 minutes. God fuck this show.

Dude, what is your problem? Because I'm not seeing the issue here. They covered major story beats from both Ai and Kou's S. Links and tied them together in a way that's natural through Ai's crush on Kou and Kou's crush on Chie. Yu developed relationships with both characters that are meaningful in their own ways, and with greater involvement from Yosuke and Chie than was seen in the game. I had absolutely no issue with the way that the characters were portrayed, and I find it more crazy that you're reacting this harshly toward their decision to condense the Social Links when doing so will ultimately provide more time for other story elements from the game, whether that be other Social Links, events like the camping trip, festivals and pageants, and the actual murder investigation. What would dividing the Social Link into multiple episodes accomplish? You'd have to give each one less time per episode because you'd have to make them share time with other events, and in the end, you might end up with a story arc of comparable length to this episode, if that, cut into smaller chunks.

#13 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19367 posts) -

@Turambar: So what are the absolutely essential parts of those two S. Links that the show managed to miss by condensing them?

Also, imma post this just cuz:

#14 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar: So what are the absolutely essential parts of those two S. Links that the show managed to miss by condensing them?

Also, imma post this just cuz:

Giving Kou Ichijo any motivation at all would be a start.  The fact that he would tell the MC "I haven't even told Daisuke, but I trust you" as a forward to him being an heir to a high class family is fucking retarded considering one is a close friend while the other is a GUY YOU JUST MET FOR 2 WEEKS WITH WHOM YOU HAVE NOT SHARED ANY ON SCREEN CONVERSATIONS OF VALUE.  Ai's S.Link was essentially a slap stick comedy with the first 6 levels going from their initial meeting to Ai waking MC to be her boyfriend happening over the course of yet another 5 minutes and 3 in anime days.  No, that does not work. 
#15 Posted by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

Dude, what is your problem? Because I'm not seeing the issue here. They covered major story beats from both Ai and Kou's S. Links and tied them together in a way that's natural through Ai's crush on Kou and Kou's crush on Chie. Yu developed relationships with both characters that are meaningful in their own ways, and with greater involvement from Yosuke and Chie than was seen in the game. I had absolutely no issue with the way that the characters were portrayed, and I find it more crazy that you're reacting this harshly toward their decision to condense the Social Links when doing so will ultimately provide more time for other story elements from the game, whether that be other Social Links, events like the camping trip, festivals and pageants, and the actual murder investigation. What would dividing the Social Link into multiple episodes accomplish? You'd have to give each one less time per episode because you'd have to make them share time with other events, and in the end, you might end up with a story arc of comparable length to this episode, if that, cut into smaller chunks.

My problem is the show fucked in in ways I thought it would and predicted from the last few episodes.  They did not cover either S.Links properly, heavily distorting Ai's, and completely missing Kou's.  Kou and Daisuke's relationship was an important thing.  The show completely excludes Daisuke's role in the resolution of his issues completely.  Do you know another way of providing more time for other story elements from the game that are important to the main plot?  Limiting your indulgences and excluding optional story beats so that the rest can be fleshed out more.  
 
Also here is what made SLinks work so well in P3 and P4 for me.  They took time.  A lot of time passes in terms of both game clock and in-world calender from start to end of the arc.  It made developments feel far more organic and far less contrived.  And I would love for them to cut the number of show S.Links in half  so that the rest are given better development and pacing.  The fact that they don't, again, pisses me off.
#16 Posted by Rudeboy217 (1769 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar: So what are the absolutely essential parts of those two S. Links that the show managed to miss by condensing them?

Also, imma post this just cuz:

Perfect

#17 Posted by Martial1562 (13 posts) -

The Social Link process is one that is, in a game setting at least, honestly flawed to hell when compared to real world scenarios. The short version: when I played the game I finished Ai's link IN DECEMBER! This is completely unrealistic in an anime setting because (like the anime actually did which I applaud it for) the entire process of most of the social links (Ai's is a VERY good example) is one that effectively only lasts at most 2 weeks. I didn't really like Ai until towards to end of the Link and thus I declined her initial love request (which does the exact opposite result) so I'm not too familiar with this part of the Link but the "just friends" result is what I could have expected. Also, MC's reactions to Ai's antics are simply priceless XD

Now if pacing is still a problem for some people, consider this. You have 25 episodes which span roughly 9 hours give or take. You have anywhere from 80 to 100 hours of content. Ok I understand that's an exaggeration due to dungeon crawling but I have no idea how much "plot" time exists so lets be fair and say at the least there is 40-50 hours of "anime available" content. Annnnnnnnnnnnd GO!

...

Not so easy is it? I'd say give the writers a break on this. This content "squish" if you will is hard enough as it is. Some stuff is going to get left out, that's just the way of things. I'll bet a LOTR purist will laugh at those complaining about missed content. I know one person that wanted a 24 HOUR MOVIE compared to the I believe 11+ hours the 3 movies took up X(

Now Kou's part is an interesting one. I'm up to believing two scenarios. (1) Nagase gets his time in the sun at some point and (2) we aren't necessarily done with Kou just yet. Ai I can likely believe we are done with because we got our "item" from her. Not the case with Kou, so its possible more could be to come.

Oh and a cat fight with Chie? Yes Please!

#18 Edited by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@Martial1562 said:

Now if pacing is still a problem for some people, consider this. You have 25 episodes which span roughly 9 hours give or take. You have anywhere from 80 to 100 hours of content. Ok I understand that's an exaggeration due to dungeon crawling but I have no idea how much "plot" time exists so lets be fair and say at the least there is 40-50 hours of "anime available" content. Annnnnnnnnnnnd GO!

The question I would retort with is "why do we need to include all 40-50 hours of plot?"
#19 Edited by Martial1562 (13 posts) -

@Turambar: For starters the social link content is the meaningful "filler" of the game (i.e. how MC occupies his days in the game) and are all essential to the richness of the game as a whole even if, in hindsight, such encounters are almost entirely unnecessary to the story where the plot is concerned. Also, I can realistically assure you that all 21 social links (if you want that number can be decreased to 17 if you don't include Fool (Investigation team), Empress (Margaret), Hermit (Fox), and Judgement (Seekers of Truth)) will have anime screen time at some point in this anime as an all around showcase of the many individuals MC encounters. I mean, as before, they kinda MAKE the game in the emotional enjoyment department.

Now all this content takes more time then the anime is simply able to allow ( the 9 hours or so from the earlier post) and believing that the content you wish to see in the way you wish to see it is asking more then is possible. Its a compromise that must be reached as a fan of the game. Simply voiding entire social links to fully flesh out others is actually a contradiction to this entire meaningful process and difficult execution. Could they have extended Kou's involvement? Absolutely. Was it realistic given the time constraints? Absolutely not. Its that impasse that needs to be dealt with if enjoyment is to exist in a video game adapted anime.

Content is GOING to get left out. I can understand your feelings in what wasn't touched upon. However, the time devotion to such just isn't there. The cookie, that's how it crumbles. I enjoyed this episode because I feel I could get past that, you didn't because you couldn't. Does that make you wrong. Not at all. All that makes you is a fan that simply wants what made him a fan in the first place. I can't argue with that. So I'll applaud it instead. *golf claps*

#20 Posted by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@Martial1562 said:

@Turambar: For starters the social link content is the meaningful "filler" of the game (i.e. how MC occupies his days in the game) and are all essential to the richness of the game as a whole even if, in hindsight, such encounters are almost entirely unnecessary to the story where the plot is concerned. Also, I can realistically assure you that all 21 social links (if you want that number can be decreased to 17 if you don't include Fool (Investigation team), Empress (Margaret), Hermit (Fox), and Judgement (Seekers of Truth)) will have anime screen time at some point in this anime as an all around showcase of the many individuals MC encounters. I mean, as before, they kinda MAKE the game in the emotional enjoyment department.

Filler is far more meaningful when properly developed and paced, wouldn't you agree?  And if it takes the neglect of a few S.Links to make the rest better, I am more than ok with that.  The fact that every S.Link will have screen time (something I agree and saw coming the moment the introduced the combat mechanic where Narukami can only use personas of an arcana he has a bond with) annoys me as a result.  Some like the Death S.Link for example (my personal favorite from the game infact) has absolutely no need for existing in the show.  But it will anyways, won't it? 
 
Content will be left out, that is inevitable.  But what is being done is taking a few pieces out of every puzzle instead of just taking out a full puzzle and leaving the rest intact.  You still have same number of total pieces, but the picture is far different, and far less to my liking.
#21 Edited by Martial1562 (13 posts) -

@Turambar: If a deep analysis of the episode is warranted (in this case that's appropriate), the focus of the episode was, in fact Ai and not so much Kou (shocker I know). The events of ranks 1-10ish (that "ish" is the acknowledgement of the left out bits) in Ai's social link were in fact stated and the Prize "Item" was received by the MC, thus the completion of the Moon Arcana is pretty much solid. Kou's involvement was required in Ai's link when Daisuke's was not thus giving the content as was put forth.

The Strength Arcana is a different beast altogether. Two people, not just one, are the make up of this social link and only focusing on one (however briefly) and neglecting the other is either a difficult to accept design choice (your concerns) or a doorway thats ever so cracked that, if opened, would lead to the other room, or Daisuke's side and/or (very important that "and/or" part) the rest of Kou's content. I can honestly believe (or even hope) that Kou's relationship with his family does have potential of seeing air time in a future episode, or at the least the acknowledgement of Daisuke's side of the social link. If that happens, I can believe your concerns would be somewhat alleviated. If not, again, I wouldn't want to be the guy making that call for the anime.

Perhaps that sacrifice is the thorn in the side of video game adapted anime. You believe that the Death Arcana could acceptably be removed due to lack of relevance, but then again so could A LOT of the links for the same reason (pretty much all that don't involve Yasogami High in one way or another). Devil, Death, Temperance, and Tower would all suffer from this rational. However, that's also a tough judgement call for not only the design aspect but your personal feelings as well ( I know, I enjoyed the Death Arcana also). So what would occur would be trading one disappointment for another reconciliation (Omitting Death from your example to give time towards the remainder of Strength). Your still losing out. It seems you can accept that. I personally would rather see the full picture even if some spots are missing.

But that is the nature of differing opinions. That isn't to say common ground is impossible, but again I must say, that's what makes us fans of the subject. Oh, and sorry for the horrible metaphors, that's kinda how I write. X(

#22 Posted by tuddfudders (6 posts) -

Ai's S link was great

Kou's was not.

I hope they revisit Kou later

#23 Posted by Nexas (638 posts) -

Yu's ringtone was the Love is Over jingle from Catherine. Good stuff.

#24 Posted by golguin (3964 posts) -

@Nexas said:

Yu's ringtone was the Love is Over jingle from Catherine. Good stuff.

I was just about to post that, but you beat me to it.

#25 Posted by JackSukeru (5921 posts) -

@tuddfudders said:

Ai's S link was great

Kou's was not.

I hope they revisit Kou later

I agree completely.

I really like this show, I just wish it could have had a slower pacing. Ai starting to date Yu could have easily been the episode cliffhanger, with more diving into Yu, Kou and Daisuke's relationship, as well as a resolution, in the following episode. As things are now I hope they revisit the Strenght Arcana later.

It was nice seeing Yu's social interactions affecting the core group at least.

#26 Posted by Vexxan (4623 posts) -

Galactic Slap made my day. I liked this episode. Great to see what the other main characters did while Yu was being whipped around. 

#27 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar: So what are the absolutely essential parts of those two S. Links that the show managed to miss by condensing them?

Also, imma post this just cuz:

Giving Kou Ichijo any motivation at all would be a start. The fact that he would tell the MC "I haven't even told Daisuke, but I trust you" as a forward to him being an heir to a high class family is fucking retarded considering one is a close friend while the other is a GUY YOU JUST MET FOR 2 WEEKS WITH WHOM YOU HAVE NOT SHARED ANY ON SCREEN CONVERSATIONS OF VALUE. Ai's S.Link was essentially a slap stick comedy with the first 6 levels going from their initial meeting to Ai waking MC to be her boyfriend happening over the course of yet another 5 minutes and 3 in anime days. No, that does not work.

What? Kou said that Daisuke was the only other person he told.

@Turambar said:

@Hailinel said:

Dude, what is your problem? Because I'm not seeing the issue here. They covered major story beats from both Ai and Kou's S. Links and tied them together in a way that's natural through Ai's crush on Kou and Kou's crush on Chie. Yu developed relationships with both characters that are meaningful in their own ways, and with greater involvement from Yosuke and Chie than was seen in the game. I had absolutely no issue with the way that the characters were portrayed, and I find it more crazy that you're reacting this harshly toward their decision to condense the Social Links when doing so will ultimately provide more time for other story elements from the game, whether that be other Social Links, events like the camping trip, festivals and pageants, and the actual murder investigation. What would dividing the Social Link into multiple episodes accomplish? You'd have to give each one less time per episode because you'd have to make them share time with other events, and in the end, you might end up with a story arc of comparable length to this episode, if that, cut into smaller chunks.

My problem is the show fucked in in ways I thought it would and predicted from the last few episodes. They did not cover either S.Links properly, heavily distorting Ai's, and completely missing Kou's. Kou and Daisuke's relationship was an important thing. The show completely excludes Daisuke's role in the resolution of his issues completely. Do you know another way of providing more time for other story elements from the game that are important to the main plot? Limiting your indulgences and excluding optional story beats so that the rest can be fleshed out more. Also here is what made SLinks work so well in P3 and P4 for me. They took time. A lot of time passes in terms of both game clock and in-world calender from start to end of the arc. It made developments feel far more organic and far less contrived. And I would love for them to cut the number of show S.Links in half so that the rest are given better development and pacing. The fact that they don't, again, pisses me off.

Sure, they took time, but it was time in an arbitrary sense. You could drop a Social Link, not touch it for three months, and things would pick right back up where you left off when you got back. In reality, that's not how building a relationship works. It's just what you say it isn't; inorganic and contrived.

#28 Posted by mutha3 (4986 posts) -

@Turambar: Man, I was thinking about writing something up about it, but you perfectly summarized my thoughts.

Hell, Ai's character arc is completely out of wack even. She didn't force Charlie into being her boyfriend in the game....she latched onto him after being rejected and then you can creepily choose to use that to your advantage.....which ends up in one of the most gloriously realistic scenes in the game: Charlie getting friendzoned.

Way too much emphasis was put on her "winning" Ichijou's heart, when that was just a minor plot point in her S-link. What really mattered was the insecurities that made her act the bitchy way she does...which the anime awkwardly glossed over with some hasty exposition. Hell, Ai didn't even act that bitchy in this episode, just pushy, its really Yu who was being a standard dumb anime protagonist with no backbone(appreciate the snark, though!).

I still found the episode very entertaining. Mostly because I love seeing Yosuke being a dick. Also,

@FluxWaveZ said:

#29 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

I remember when the main complaint people had was that the show was hanging too close to the game and not doing it's own thing. Surprise surprise that once it does do it's own thing, the complaining continues. :P

#30 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

I remember when the main complaint people had was that the show was hanging too close to the game and not doing it's own thing. Surprise surprise that once it does do it's own thing, the complaining continues. :P

You can't satisfy everyone sadly, I thought it was handled reasonably well! : )

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

#31 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

I remember when the main complaint people had was that the show was hanging too close to the game and not doing it's own thing. Surprise surprise that once it does do it's own thing, the complaining continues. :P

uh.......Choosing to include the S-links is yet another example of the show being way too goddamn faithful for its own good.

#32 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -
@mutha3

@Hailinel said:

I remember when the main complaint people had was that the show was hanging too close to the game and not doing it's own thing. Surprise surprise that once it does do it's own thing, the complaining continues. :P

uh.......Choosing to include the S-links is yet another example of the show being way too goddamn faithful for its own good.

Not true. Ignoring them would would be ignoring what half of the game is about.
#33 Posted by TheUnsavedHero (1255 posts) -

If or when this gets released in the U.S., I'm definitely picking it up. Still not used to his name. I'll forever know him as Charlie Tunoku.

#34 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

Not true. Ignoring them would would be ignoring what half of the game is about.

So what?

This isn't a videogame, its an adaptation. Persona 4 has a plot and its central characters, and they should have used that in a way that would produce good tv. As it is now, its only entertaining to fans and mediocre-to-bad for everyone else.

Oh, and I still fail to see how including condensed and awkward versions of the in-game S-links means the anime is "doing its own thing".

#35 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -
@mutha3

@Hailinel said:

Not true. Ignoring them would would be ignoring what half of the game is about.

So what?

This isn't a videogame, its an adaptation. Persona 4 has a plot and its central characters, and they should have used that in a way that would produce good tv. As it is now, its only entertaining to fans and mediocre-to-bad for everyone else.

Oh, and I still fail to see how including condensed and awkward versions of the in-game S-links means the anime is "doing its own thing".

Of course it's an adaptation. That's my point. And the show does its own thing by adapting and condensing the Social Links, rather than have them play out exactly as they do in the game.
#36 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

Of course it's an adaptation. That's my point.

Bzzzttt. You said ignoring the S-link would be ignoring half the game-- which is irrelevant because an adaptation is supposed to carry a work of fiction between one medium and make it work in the next. P4A is spectacularly failing in doing that this week by adding ancillary story stuff, which to anyone with no knowledge of the game is an utterly boring filler episode.

....And even if you do have knowledge, its still pointless filler seeing how the character aren't given nearly enough time to be anything but a lame joke.

And the show does its own thing by adapting and condensing the Social Links, rather than have them play out exactly as they do in the game.

So the show is doing literally the closest thing to having them play out exactly the same way as in the game outside of having them play out exactly the same way as in the game? I can't say your remark about people bitching about change holds up, seeing how, you know, we were suggesting they get rid of that aspect all together. Which would be an actual, relevant change. Rather than giving us awkward, cliff-notes versions of these S-links.

#37 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -
@mutha3

@Hailinel said:

Of course it's an adaptation. That's my point.

Bzzzttt. You said ignoring the S-link would be ignoring half the game-- which is irrelevant because an adaptation is supposed to carry a work of fiction between one medium and make it work in the next. P4A is spectacularly failing in doing that this week by adding ancillary story stuff, which to anyone with no knowledge of the game is an utterly boring filler episode.

....And even if you do have knowledge, its still pointless filler seeing how the character aren't given nearly enough time to be anything but a lame joke.

And the show does its own thing by adapting and condensing the Social Links, rather than have them play out exactly as they do in the game.

So the show is doing literally the closest thing to having them play out exactly the same way as in the game outside of having them play out exactly the same way as in the game? I can't say your remark about people bitching about change holds up, seeing how, you know, we were suggesting they get rid of that aspect all together. Which would be an actual, relevant change. Rather than giving us awkward, cliff-notes versions of these S-links.

Uh, what? If Social Links were removed, a major driving force behind the story would be lost. Persona 4 is as much about Yu, his growth, and his relationships as it is about the murder investigation. A proper adaptation would need to address this side of the story. It's not something throwaway or ignored like the Tom Bombadil scenes in Lord of the Rings. Yu's relationships are what form the core of his ability to withstand and defeat the force behind the murders and the TV world. Bombadil sings magic songs, bails Frodo out once, and plays no further importance to the story.
#38 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

Uh, what? If Social Links were removed, a major driving force behind the story would be lost. Persona 4 is as much about Yu, his growth, and his relationships as it is about the murder investigation. A proper adaptation would need to address this side of the story.

I agree, but Yu´s relationships with Yosuke,Yukiko, Chie, Kanji, Teddie, Naoto,Rise, Dojima and Nanako address that side of the story just fine...Ai and Kou on the other hand, do nothing but waste valuable time that could be spent developing these central characters and making the relationships between them more meaningful.

#39 Posted by Martial1562 (13 posts) -

It seems this, again, comes down to the "Well if I was in the director's chair..." scenario that all us fans want to be in. A divide has "surprisingly" formed with this anime.

One side can accept the changes and condensing of content when taking time constraints and anime story flow into account. Game flow and anime flow are two VERY different things and a bit of rational and compromise can get this group past those alterations.

The other side feels that in doing so the anime is becoming a niche for fans of the game and is also including unnecessary story elements that could either be fleshed out for the sake of fleshing them out, or simply removed entirely. This group wants to see the finished product they had hoped for, but the story flow impasse that the above group could accept this group cannot.

*Incoming terrible metaphor* Hey at least you get a warning this time XD.

A video game is like being a bachelor. You play as you wish, you decide as you wish, you win the game or get bored, maybe start cursing, and move on. It's standard stuff with many things being optional (examples being in the game not exploring a social link and in real life not wearing pants when playing the game XD ).

An adaptation of a video game to an anime, now that's more like a marriage. You have compromise, you have arguments, you get your way, you DON'T get your way, sometimes what you don't expect becomes the end result (seriously, you either loved the Chie/Ai cat fight or your wrong, its that simply XD ).

At the end of the day, or at the very least at the 3 AM hour when "OMG SUBS ARE OUT" just accept this anime for what it is, an enjoyment you are either going to have or not going to have. Neither side is in the wrong here, they never were. Now if the angry group is still complaining at episode say 12 when they are complaining now, teehee, that just means that the anime still hooked them despite their misgivings. Again, not wrong, but it does become a "little" humorous at that point. I feel I'm in the first group that can take the anime for what it is (that and Ai's VA, Kanae Ito, is OMGWTFBBQ awesome).

Sheesh...I have GOT to write less in these posts X(

#40 Posted by Akimoto (13 posts) -

While I also wish that more time was spent developing these characters, I would like to point out that getting the "card" in a social link doesn't have to mean finishing the link. Maybe he will actually be able to summon more powerful personas connected to the link when he solves some problem or gains new knowledge regarding Kou, for example. After all, he got the Magician Arcana as soon a they got to the point where that Link was at level 1.

#41 Posted by Turambar (6808 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

I remember when the main complaint people had was that the show was hanging too close to the game and not doing it's own thing. Surprise surprise that once it does do it's own thing, the complaining continues. :P

That was never my complaint.  Further, I'd say this episode sucked even if I had no knowledge of the games due to the pacing.
#42 Posted by Zomgfruitbunnies (844 posts) -

I really wish Vinny and/or Jeff watches this episode...

#43 Posted by metalsnakezero (2309 posts) -

@Zomgfruitbunnies said:

I really wish Vinny and/or Jeff watches this episode...

Vinny wouldn't mind the changes since he seen enough anime to understand some of the changes but I don't think Jeff would like it unless he is will to see every scene that has Chie in it.

#44 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19367 posts) -

@metalsnakezero said:

@Zomgfruitbunnies said:

I really wish Vinny and/or Jeff watches this episode...

Vinny wouldn't mind the changes since he seen enough anime to understand some of the changes but I don't think Jeff would like it unless he is will to see every scene that has Chie in it.

Why are you saying Vinny's seen enough anime? And why are you implying Jeff hasn't?

#45 Edited by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@Turambar

@Hailinel said:

I remember when the main complaint people had was that the show was hanging too close to the game and not doing it's own thing. Surprise surprise that once it does do it's own thing, the complaining continues. :P

That was never my complaint. Further, I'd say this episode sucked even if I had no knowledge of the games due to the pacing.

I didn't say it was specifically your complaint, and I thought the episode was paced well. They combined elements from two Social Links with a common thread that existed in the game and told their own interpretation that brings the events of both together in a more natural circumstance than the almost mutually exclusive bubbles that Social Links inhabit in the games.

#46 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -

@Akimoto said:

While I also wish that more time was spent developing these characters, I would like to point out that getting the "card" in a social link doesn't have to mean finishing the link. Maybe he will actually be able to summon more powerful personas connected to the link when he solves some problem or gains new knowledge regarding Kou, for example. After all, he got the Magician Arcana as soon a they got to the point where that Link was at level 1.

The stuff they showed in the episode was a summary of various scenes from the Kou/Ai s-links from rank 1-10, so I doubt it. This is all we're probably gonna get.

#47 Posted by flamingwuzzle23 (10 posts) -

So why are people assuming this is the end of the Strength link? From watching the episode, it seemed a lot more like they were focusing on Ai's story (which they barely cut anything from) and incorporated Kou a bit more than he was in the game, then decided to go ahead and start (not necessarily finish) the Strength link so the writers have more potential Personas for Kanji's dungeon. Rakshasa would be a good Persona to have against Shadow Kanji.

I don't think that this is the last we'll hear of Kou, as they didn't even touch the adoption subplot that was such a big part of his story, although I admit there is a (small) chance that the writers just decided to present a highly abbreviated version of Kou's link. The problem is, we don't KNOW that this is all of Kou's story, so it's a bit silly to rage about it.

#48 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

I should note that one of metalsnakezero's screenshots made too perfect of an image for this page to pass up.

#49 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19367 posts) -

I'd be very surprised if Kou gets addressed in any significant way in a future episode.

#50 Edited by metalsnakezero (2309 posts) -

@Hailinel: Wow, I'm not sure if that is great or not lol.

@flamingwuzzle23: Yeah, like I said, this may not be the end of Kou since that the strength social link involves both Kou and Daisuke.

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