Question about religions and the importance of warfare in civ5

#1 Posted by RainVillain (480 posts) -

for someone who really liked this historical (albeit oftentimes hilarious) element to Civ4, will I be disappointed with Civ5? 
 
I tend to enjoy maxing out mediation/Buddhism in my matches of Civ4 then going for a peaceful victory. One of the things I didn't like about Civilization Revolution on the PS3 was the lack of concrete religions, and also a much stronger emphasis on warfare than in Civ4. Yes, you could still win in Rev through non-war ways, but you always had to be aggressive.
   
Do you guys think I should stick with Civ4 or start learning Civ5?

#2 Posted by RainVillain (480 posts) -

Found this choice quote from the GB Overview page for the game:
 
"Religion, a long standing Civilization game mechanic will not be making a return, while still being there it will not have the same depth as previous Civilization installments"
 
What does this mean? Are there religions?

#3 Posted by narcosis219 (20 posts) -

I have not yet run into anything religion related in my 6 or 7 games...
 
I guess the social policies are... kinda... like religion...?

#4 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11004 posts) -

Nope, no Religion mechanic as far as I can tell (but I don't own the game, so I may be wrong) Frankly, it was just yet another obnoxious thing to keep track of without adding much in Civ IV, so I am kind of glad that it is gone. Besides you can always turtle and win with science, culture, or diplomacy.

#5 Posted by Red12b (9044 posts) -
@narcosis219 said:
" I have not yet run into anything religion related in my 6 or 7 games...  I guess the social policies are... kinda... like religion...? "
 
Yeah they have replaced civics government types and religion into some sort of easy culture thing.  
 
it's kind of stripped down to say the least.  
#6 Posted by RainVillain (480 posts) -

Not that I put too much importance in what IGN says, but their review really makes it seem like militaristic victories are by far the easiest to gain..

#7 Posted by jkz (3956 posts) -
@bigmuffpi:  
 
That was true to a certain degree in Civ 4 as well. I wouldn't say that non-military victories are unreasonable, though. I know that I've had the most fun focusing on non-military pursuit, and then simply setting up a defense that's strong enough to hold out against barbarians, and paying straight-out for troops if another Civilization decides to attack me.
#8 Posted by Wuddel (2057 posts) -

Well, I usually take it up on myself as an interesting task to do a non military victory. Currently I am trying to get the Bollywood achievement. Religion as a game mechanic in Civ 4 was way overpowered. Tied to both a massive diplomatic and economic momentum. Also creating strange effects like, you are in war with a civ of another religion, and suddenly his BFF, which you have never met comes around and kicks your ass.

#9 Posted by RainVillain (480 posts) -
@jukezypoo: hmm thanks for the info about that.
 
ONE FINAL QUESTION FOR EVERYONE!
In Civ4 you could set up a custom match and one of the options was "always peace". Does such an option exist in Civ5? Similarly, do you think the mods will open up this type of variety, or will the mods be exclusively used for creating new maps?
#10 Posted by ebritt (149 posts) -
@bigmuffpi: I don't know if there is currently an option but it is the sort of thing that could be easily modded and someone is bound to if it isn't already in the game. 
 
And to answer the first question. Religion is still in the game, it is just religion as a whole and not its different splinters(e.g christianity, judaism). So you will gain the cultural bonus without having to worry about the unhappiness of each city as it has a different religion to your main chosen religion.
#11 Posted by mosdl (3223 posts) -
@bigmuffpi said:
" Found this choice quote from the GB Overview page for the game:  "Religion, a long standing Civilization game mechanic will not be making a return, while still being there it will not have the same depth as previous Civilization installments"  What does this mean? Are there religions? "
Religion was new for Civ 4, not really longstanding
#12 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

...as a new comer to Civ with Civ 5, can someone explain what religion did in the other games, and why it was taken out?  Will it be in the expansions?

#13 Edited by vogon (95 posts) -

what religion primarily did (I believe it was only in Civ 4, but I'm not sure about 3 or Rev) was -- if you discovered a religion -- cause money to be added to your coffers for every city that had worshippers of that religion.  you could do things like send missionaries to opposing civs' cities to seed the religion. 
 
additionally, before Free Religion was unlocked as a civic, each civ had a state religion; you got a diplomacy bonus with other civs that shared your religion, and a diplomacy penalty with other civs that didn't; largely, this sucked, because it seemed like civs would be converted to new religions every 10 turns or so, so there was no staying ahead of it. 
 
my guess is that it was taken out because it was sort of a weird mechanic with no good way of controlling the spread of religions, so it basically amounted to some random diplomacy modifiers and a gold bonus for being the first person to discover a tech.
#14 Posted by mosdl (3223 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:
" ...as a new comer to Civ with Civ 5, can someone explain what religion did in the other games, and why it was taken out?  Will it be in the expansions? "
If you were the first to research a certain tech, you got a religion depending on the tech (Judaism, Islam, etc), which you could then spread using missionaries.  Civs that had the same religions would group up together, basically another modifier to how much civs liked/hated eachother. 
#15 Posted by mosdl (3223 posts) -

One think civ 5 needs is the list of reasons a civ likes/hates you like in Civ 3/4.  Though Civ 5 civs seem to focus a lot more on your expansion and warmongering.

#16 Posted by JA050N (126 posts) -
@bigmuffpi: there doesn't seem to be an always peace/war condition, although there's no telling if it will show up in a later patch or expansion.
#17 Posted by Death_Unicorn (2826 posts) -
@mosdl:  Whoops, my bad (I wrote that line). I don't know why, but when I look back at playing Civilization III, which is where I started, they include religion. Curse you nostalgia!
#18 Posted by Hunkulese (2527 posts) -
@Red12b said:
" @narcosis219 said:
" I have not yet run into anything religion related in my 6 or 7 games...  I guess the social policies are... kinda... like religion...? "
 Yeah they have replaced civics government types and religion into some sort of easy culture thing.   it's kind of stripped down to say the least.   "
How is it stripped down? The policy system gives the player way more flexibility and options. Religion is a good idea for Civ games but it wasn't implemented well. There wasn't really anything complex about the religion in civ IV.
#19 Posted by JammyJesus (766 posts) -

Personally, i would have loved it if you could change civics halfway though the game, for example, swap Piety for Rationalism. It would make the game a bit more 'realistic'.
#20 Posted by AndrewB (7190 posts) -

I think enough people have complained about the lack of religion as a key path to victory that they'll probably focus on it in the first expansion. As little as I care for it, myself, it feels like something is missing without it. "Piety" just doesn't cut it. 
 
And it sounds like militaristic victories still need some balancing. Seems like early combat is useless due to how powerful even an unmanned city can be, but once you get closer to siege weapons...

#21 Posted by FreakAche (2938 posts) -

 Starting a thread about religion on Giant Bomb? Sounds like a bad idea.
 
On a more serious note though, religion as it was in Civ IV is absent from Civ V. I don't think it really matters too much as in Civ IV it was kind of a poorly designed concept. Since all the religions were the same, it was obvious that they were only in there for the sake of having them in there. I always thought it was better in Civ III where you could build generic religious buildings to improve your culture. Civ IV just made it into a mechanic that was convuluted and kind of silly.

#22 Posted by TheMustacheHero (6654 posts) -
@bigmuffpi said:
" Not that I put too much importance in what IGN says, but their review really makes it seem like militaristic victories are by far the easiest to gain.. "
Yep. They're the fastest and easiest way to win a game. You really have to go out of your way to win any other way.

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