Denis Dyack should set up a new studio together with Brendan McNamara. They'd probably get on well.

Man I gotta find a copy of Too Human. I kinda liked that game.

Too Human: it's a VIDEO GAME!

I um... Kinda liked too human... Sure it was a bit rough in spots, but the idea was awesome.

The worst thing about this is that the judge ordered the source codes to be deleted. At least the copies of the games will exist for a decent amount of time and they can be preserved but when that source code is deleted, it's gone forever. Say what you will about the quality of the games but he essentially ordered art to be destroyed.

@The_Nubster said:

This is insane. What benefit does that give anyone? Why would they have to destroy those copies? Can anyone explain to me why they would have to do this?

Well if the games have holdovers from tech licenced by Epic it makes perfect (legal) sense. Silicon Knights shouldnt be allowed to put anything out that uses tech that they claimed didnt work and tryed to sue over it.

To be honest i'm surprised Epic has just now decided to do this. I suppose it sets a precedent for future companies who decide to fuck with them, if nothing else.

(Eternal Darkness is overated...!)

I actually enjoyed Too Human.

@Hailinel: Yeah but that doesn"t make it any less disappointing that the game has for all intentions been buried. Nintendo may have gotten that game off the ground but they will never do anything with it. MGS1 as a 14 year old PSone game has no rerelease options for it. It got an unceremonious PSN release but nothing on the level of a complete MGS package. Plus it is incredibly dated tryign to go back and play it today.

The HD collection as well would have really benefited from the full trilogy of the first three games. Twin Snakes existence makes another remake redundant but Nintendo's involvement makes the likelihood of anyone ever seeing it again nonexistent.

So dump all the copies in the desert and cover it all in concrete?

Amazon says, "Thanks for your order,"

Played the demo a lot, never got around to buying it. Worth the $3.

Was going to buy X-Men Destiny for the sake of owning it, PS3 version is $20 everywhere in Canada...screw that.

@Pixeldemon said:

I don't understand how this could go so bad for them... honestly seems like a prejudiced judge.

I don't think you understand what that word means.

@RAMBO604 said:

@Hailinel: Yeah but that doesn"t make it any less disappointing that the game has for all intentions been buried. Nintendo may have gotten that game off the ground but they will never do anything with it. MGS1 as a 14 year old PSone game has no rerelease options for it. It got an unceremonious PSN release but nothing on the level of a complete MGS package. Plus it is incredibly dated tryign to go back and play it today.

The HD collection as well would have really benefited from the full trilogy of the first three games. Twin Snakes existence makes another remake redundant but Nintendo's involvement makes the likelihood of anyone ever seeing it again nonexistent.

Nintendo performed QA on the game and provided additional technical and production assistance. They were directly involved in the production of the game.

How is this studio still in business? Nothing against Dennis Dyack or anyone at Silicon Knights. And I certainly don't want to see them close. But how can you exist for an entire console cycle, put out two duds for games, loose a lawsuit, have maybe all your projects canceled and still be going? I've seen way too many other companies shut down this console cycle over games that were good or did sell well. Granted I don't think Silicon Knights is owned by any big publisher and it's mostly big publishers that shut down the studios, but still I find it curious that they still exist. Here's hoping they can turn it around before they do go under.

I can only support any initiative to destroy copies of Too Human.

I have a feeling that SK is finished at this point. They were already hurting before the lawsuit, but now they're just being bled dry by having their work destroyed.

@Masakari: Ah no not that, but the part where he was being overly defensive and rationalizing about responding to users in Gaf, etc. and how it was all just a social experiment of sorts that he planned out. It was pretty nuts.

So, that's it for SK right? They can't possibly survive this

@Pixeldemon said:

I don't understand how this could go so bad for them... honestly seems like a prejudiced judge.

Yeah the judge was probably just mad that Too Human only had 2-player co-op.

@Hailinel said:

@RAMBO604 said:

@Hailinel: Yeah but that doesn"t make it any less disappointing that the game has for all intentions been buried. Nintendo may have gotten that game off the ground but they will never do anything with it. MGS1 as a 14 year old PSone game has no rerelease options for it. It got an unceremonious PSN release but nothing on the level of a complete MGS package. Plus it is incredibly dated tryign to go back and play it today.

The HD collection as well would have really benefited from the full trilogy of the first three games. Twin Snakes existence makes another remake redundant but Nintendo's involvement makes the likelihood of anyone ever seeing it again nonexistent.

Nintendo performed QA on the game and provided additional technical and production assistance. They were directly involved in the production of the game.

Entirely missing the point of what I was saying. I am fully aware of Nintendo's direct involvement, make mention of it several times. It is what makes it virtually impossible for TTS to ever see the light of day again because Nintendo has claim to it so it prevents Konami from doing anything in the future with it because Nintendo sure as hell will not take the initiative to update or rerelease that title.

On one hand I feel like this is a little bit much, but on the other hand at least it didn't happen to good games.

Anyone else see a vague resemblance between Dennis Dyack and Billy Corgan?

It kind of explains the "list of enemies" thing.

@laserbolts said:

I have a copy of too human still in the wrapping. Should I start planning a Tokyo raid?

Yes. Just think of how many Turbografx games you'll be able to buy with your profits!

@RAMBO604 said:

@Hailinel said:

@RAMBO604 said:

@Hailinel: Yeah but that doesn"t make it any less disappointing that the game has for all intentions been buried. Nintendo may have gotten that game off the ground but they will never do anything with it. MGS1 as a 14 year old PSone game has no rerelease options for it. It got an unceremonious PSN release but nothing on the level of a complete MGS package. Plus it is incredibly dated tryign to go back and play it today.

The HD collection as well would have really benefited from the full trilogy of the first three games. Twin Snakes existence makes another remake redundant but Nintendo's involvement makes the likelihood of anyone ever seeing it again nonexistent.

Nintendo performed QA on the game and provided additional technical and production assistance. They were directly involved in the production of the game.

Entirely missing the point of what I was saying. I am fully aware of Nintendo's direct involvement, make mention of it several times. It is what makes it virtually impossible for TTS to ever see the light of day again because Nintendo has claim to it so it prevents Konami from doing anything in the future with it because Nintendo sure as hell will not take the initiative to update or rerelease that title.

What do you mean "has claimed" it? You seem to be under the belief that Nintendo jumped on this purely so that a remake couldn't be on other platforms.

@Elwoodan said:

I um... Kinda liked too human... Sure it was a bit rough in spots, but the idea was awesome.

Yeah, the game wasn't outright terrible. Had a LOT of problems, but I did enjoy playing through it last year. There are plenty of better games to play, of course.

Heh, maybe it'll see a resurgence of people playing it online.

@ArbitraryWater: Yep that's the one. Garnett Lee was probably not expecting that to happen.

I wonder what the games they'd been working on before now were like? I guess now we'll never know.

Yo! Just went out and bought a brand new sealed copy of this masterpiece for $5! Woohoooooooooo!

Yikes...Things are really bad now for Silicon Knights. I hope they won't be forced to close, because that would mean yet another series of layoffs, which has been happening quite often this year.

Title of the article makes it sound like they're going to use unreal engine 3 to destroy the unsold materials.

@Roger778 said:

Yikes...Things are really bad now for Silicon Knights. I hope they won't be forced to close, because that would mean yet another series of layoffs, which has been happening quite often this year.

If you read the Kotaku article that was linked, you'd know that Silicon Knights isn't a game development studio anymore. It's just a shell company for Dennis Dyack, his wife, and a few other people.

I don't even own a 360 but I have a sealed copy of Too Human I got for $6 shipped. I go to Brock University in St. Catharines where Dyack got his wings so I plan to donate it to the local museum of failure.

@Roger778 said:

Yikes...Things are really bad now for Silicon Knights. I hope they won't be forced to close, because that would mean yet another series of layoffs, which has been happening quite often this year.

If the anonymous ex-staffers quoted in Kotaku's X-Men postmortem are right, there are four people left on the payroll at SK. FOUR. The studio must have stopped development on anything months ago. My theory is that Dyack knows it's over, but wants to continue paying his wife and himself that government funding they got as long as possible. Perhaps keeping SK alive gives him some protection from Epic going after his personal money. I'll admit I'm no expert on Canadian bankruptcy law.

Eternal Darkness was great and I'm still a Too Human apologist, but Denis Dyack has lost his fucking mind. Because of that, all the talented developers quit and no publisher will touch SK with a ten-foot pole. The dream is dead...

In more positive news, my $10 sealed copy of X-Men Destiny has turned into a great investment!

Silicon Knights shall remove all of Epic Game's Licensed Technology from Silicon Knight's game engine and, at Silicon Knight's expense, permit Epic Games (through its designated consultants) to independently verify that Silicon Knight's game engine no longer contains any of Epic Game's Licensed Technology. Silicon Knights also shall make available to Epic Games (through its designated consultants) Silicon Knight's computers, servers, databases, Perforce repositories, and any other systems, databases, data storage devices, internal wiki, data storage locations, directory listings, and equipment. Epic Games may access these items at Silicon Knight's premises to verify that Silicon Knights has complied with this permanent injunction.

This seems a little unfair.

Silicon Knights is the perfect example of a developer squandering their potential.

EDIT:

@Dagbiker said:

Silicon Knights shall remove all of Epic Game's Licensed Technology from Silicon Knight's game engine and, at Silicon Knight's expense, permit Epic Games (through its designated consultants) to independently verify that Silicon Knight's game engine no longer contains any of Epic Game's Licensed Technology. Silicon Knights also shall make available to Epic Games (through its designated consultants) Silicon Knight's computers, servers, databases, Perforce repositories, and any other systems, databases, data storage devices, internal wiki, data storage locations, directory listings, and equipment. Epic Games may access these items at Silicon Knight's premises to verify that Silicon Knights has complied with this permanent injunction.

This seems a little unfair.

It does but do you blame them? If I were Epic I wouldn't trust Silicon Knights to do anything that they were asked.

@Dagbiker said:

Silicon Knights shall remove all of Epic Game's Licensed Technology from Silicon Knight's game engine and, at Silicon Knight's expense, permit Epic Games (through its designated consultants) to independently verify that Silicon Knight's game engine no longer contains any of Epic Game's Licensed Technology. Silicon Knights also shall make available to Epic Games (through its designated consultants) Silicon Knight's computers, servers, databases, Perforce repositories, and any other systems, databases, data storage devices, internal wiki, data storage locations, directory listings, and equipment. Epic Games may access these items at Silicon Knight's premises to verify that Silicon Knights has complied with this permanent injunction.

This seems a little unfair.

I don't see how it's unfair. If I've understood this all correctly, Silicon Knights are basically using an engine that they're calling their own, but which really isn't. They're using a slightly modified Unreal Engine 3 that they're not paying Epic any licencing fees for. That's a direct violation of the law. It seems like Epic is well within their rights to order said engine and everything made with it destroyed.

If he hadn't pissed off Epic so badly, they might have let him settle this out of court for some money (assuming they even found out about this at all), I suppose, but that wasn't going to happen after he sued them.

@Viking_Funeral said:

@Pixeldemon said:

I don't understand how this could go so bad for them... honestly seems like a prejudiced judge.

I don't think you understand what that word means.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice

No chief, I think I get it.

@Pixeldemon: You honestly believe that the judge had a negative attitude towards Silicon Knights before the trial started, and that is why they lost? Not because they presented a faulty case?

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'd bet serious money that the judge had never heard of Silicon Knights before the trial.

Kotaku's article about the troubled development of 'X-Men: Destiny' makes Jeff and Ryan's discussion near the end of their Quick Look of the game (beginning around the 31-minute mark) seem eerily prescient.

So glad I picked up two copies of Too Human when I saw it on sale for $9. The co-op was actually a lot of fun

Too Human is $6 new and $3 used at Gamestop. $3 is still $3 too much for that game though.

loool

May the mighty winds guide the Too Human assets to Valhalla. Blow winds, blow!

@damnable_fiend said:

@Dagbiker said:

Silicon Knights shall remove all of Epic Game's Licensed Technology from Silicon Knight's game engine and, at Silicon Knight's expense, permit Epic Games (through its designated consultants) to independently verify that Silicon Knight's game engine no longer contains any of Epic Game's Licensed Technology. Silicon Knights also shall make available to Epic Games (through its designated consultants) Silicon Knight's computers, servers, databases, Perforce repositories, and any other systems, databases, data storage devices, internal wiki, data storage locations, directory listings, and equipment. Epic Games may access these items at Silicon Knight's premises to verify that Silicon Knights has complied with this permanent injunction.

This seems a little unfair.

I don't see how it's unfair. If I've understood this all correctly, Silicon Knights are basically using an engine that they're calling their own, but which really isn't. They're using a slightly modified Unreal Engine 3 that they're not paying Epic any licencing fees for. That's a direct violation of the law. It seems like Epic is well within their rights to order said engine and everything made with it destroyed.

If he hadn't pissed off Epic so badly, they might have let him settle this out of court for some money (assuming they even found out about this at all), I suppose, but that wasn't going to happen after he sued them.

Thats not what I think is unfair, I think the all access pass to Epic to every thing they have is unfair.

I've always had the impression that Dennis Dyack had an enormous and unearned ego. Stemming from him putting himself on the same level as Kojima and Miyamoto when Silicon Knights did the GCN remake of Metal Gear Solid.

Does this mean they'll recall all unsold stock from stores or just have to destroy all THEIR unsold materials - i.e., stuff that was never actually shipped to stores and still are boxed up in some warehouse somewhere?

If every copy, used or new, of Too Human was destroyed, I'd be totally okay with that. I have hardly ever hated a game so much as that.

I loved too human, played it too death, offline only though since the community was kinda aggressive in the matchmaking

I don't want to get in on any of the bickering here. Just wanted to say I have fond memories of many Silicon Knights games, though, yeah, nothing recent.

Still, as someone who periodically makes shit, it's super heartbreaking to hear they have to destroy all the projects they're still working on. Especially if you consider this story from the POV of all the artists/animators/designers at SK building stuff, it's gonna suck for them to have all that ripped away because their boss filed a suit and lost.

If I recall correctly, the 2008 plagiarism masterpiece Limbo of the Lost was only recalled from stores, but Steve Bovis was never forced to destroy every piece of material used in the development of the game and let Bethesda, Blizzard, Bioware, Eidos scour through their computers for stolet assets. Destroying source code is a bit excessive I think, give the Software Preservation Society all the materials instead.