I don't think it's a big deal. Especially since you can't look at movelists online!
Skullgirls
Game » consists of 23 releases. Released Apr 10, 2012
- PlayStation Network (PS3)
- Xbox 360 Games Store
- PC
- PlayStation 4
- + 8 more
- Linux
- Mac
- Arcade
- PlayStation Network (Vita)
- PlayStation Vita
- Nintendo Switch
- Xbox One
- Xbox Series X|S
Take control of fierce female warriors in a 1940s dark Deco world in this stylish indie fighting game developed by (and for) hardcore fighting game enthusiasts.
So apparently this game has no in game move list.
Personally, I'd rather have a moves list that I can bring up from the pause menu over some kind of hit box thing in a sparring mode. This is coming from a pretty noob ass fighting game player. I understand that all the moves will pretty much be qcf or hcf style things or whatever, but I like being able to see that shit because. . . well, because I'm a noob and because I prolly wouldn't care about any of that hit box timing stuff and would rather just be able to look and see which combinations result in what attacks rather than trying every combination fighting game trope control movement with each attack button.
Also, I don't quite believe that "look on the internet" is a legitimate goto solution. It's a solution, but a piss poor one. It's pretty goddamn inconvenient when compared to the alternative of it just being in there -_-;; I haven't had to do that since I was printing out fatalities from the internet for Mortal Kombat 2 to take em to the arcades. I feel for the team since putting in something as simple sounding as a moves list is actually a good amount of work (2 weeks seems about right to plan, code, create assets and test for a small team) but if they truly were targeting casual players, I think they should have put in the moves list, then patched in the more advanced stuff later on. But that's just my opinion and really, it doesn't matter since I'm sorta over the fighting game thing at this point and wouldn't buy it either way.
Bottom line is pretty much. No moves list. Will be patched in eventually. It not being in there will not significantly effect sales either way because it doesn't seem like a big enough thing to really be taken notice of by the majority of people planning on buying the game anyway.
I LOVE fighting games, but I'm terrible at all of them. I'm decent in Mortal Kombat at least but It's sad to see this won't have a move list...for now. I'll get it when it's on sale for sure either way.
People new to fighting games wouldn't know to look for a move list anyway, maybe stop freaking out? People who play fighting games don't really need it and like others said there's a thing called the Internet now, people new to fighting games don't need/care about a move list.
I don't understand what the hell you guys are getting so worked up over. They basically said 'We're super sorry we couldn't get them in day one. We'll make sure to patch them in just as soon as we finish making them.' And the response to that is 'Oh. I must have been mistaken. I thought this was going to be a not shitty butt-poop fighting game designed by not idiots; but obviously this game is total shit.' I hope you all see how that is maybe an inappropriate reaction. I mean, it's lame that the move list isn't going to be in there, but it's also pretty stupid to act like the developers are assholes for releasing the game a few weeks earlier. I mean, what would the alternative be? Hold off on releasing the game even longer because of move lists? I think they made the right decision there.
They had limited time, and very limited resources. It was essentially down to either a move list or another character at launch, or no hitbox data. As a person that takes fgs relatively seriously, that is far more important than something anyone with a brain can reason through (though I guess you could argue that for hitbox data, even if that is infinitely more complex).
Plus, it's almost a paradox in itself. i mean, new/super casual players aren't going to look for a move list, people getting serious will address the internet for strategies and their past experience with ANY fighting game will teach them any motion in this game, people getting serious and never having played a fighting game will go to the internet for strategies and look for movelists online, and people who are serious and are playing will most certainly do all of the former. No one will cry about this, because the person that needs a movelist for longer than the flick of a smartphone or a click of a mouse is not the person who play the game for longer than a few weeks and is such an expected loss, and the people that are serious and need that sort of helping hand know how to write shit down and/or keep their phone/computer on/with them.
Seriously, who is the movelist for? It takes seconds to find shoryuken or any FAQ site. So really, who? Those who are serious about fighting games who don't use the internet? That demographic literally doesn't exist for this game. I just don't get it anymore.
EDIT: Oh, it's getting patched in as well? Well then, you people can shut up about this then. It's a moot point.
COME ON, SON!Well that's kind of silly. Even if it is going to be patched in, is it so hard to paste a jpeg as a moves list? Come now.
I'm not sure about everyone else, but I'm pretty sure mos t new (which is everyone that is playing this game) to Skullgirls or new to fighting games, one of the first things they look at, is the movelist.
Luckily, all the moves are basic fireball motions with the DP thrown in for a change. It seems crazy, since that is one of the first things people look at, but thi sgame seems to be more, when to execute, then how to execute.
@TechHits said:
Did you make the game? you can tell me, are you Reverge Labs?
No. But this is information coming straight from people who ARE working on the game. "You can tell me", what kind of passive-aggressive tripe is that?
@Tim_the_Corsair said:
Then they frankly need better time management skills. What he is listing as blowing out the timeframe could be minimised by cutting corners on it in order to have what is a fairly important feature for a named part of their target audience in the game. It could be prettied up and translated post-release. Of course, it should have just been done in the first place. Not saying its the end of the world, but I am saying it is a dumb mistake to make when building and selling a game that you have specifically discussed as being designed to help new players acclimatise to fighting games, in much the same way as saying "we have move lists, but we forgot to do the tutorial mode whoops LOL!" would also be a flaw when targeting a game at that audience. The petty name calling and lack of acknowledgement that this basic feature is something a game targeting new players should probably have built in just makes you sound like a fanboy.
So basically this is an unforgivable mistake and no explanation will satisfy you. I.E. an argumentative idiot. It's not fanboyism to call someone an idiot for not listening to explanations that dispel their argument. I can perfectly understand your argument, but it is largely pointless because they are going to be putting the movelists in as soon as possible. They won't be there for launch, but they will be there as soon as they can get them in.
They had many plans. Bloodie Marie, the final boss, was supposed to also be a playable character, but again, they did not have enough time. Some things were cut to get the game out on schedule, but movelists at the very least will be put in ASAP.
That is the crux of the argument. It is unfortunate it will not have movelists at launch, but it's not like they're not going to implement them. They're planning to get them in as soon as humanly possible, so it's really not something people should be flipping their lids over. The way people are acting it's like Reverge Labs shot their dog or ruined their Mass Effect 3 ending.
@CaptainInvictus said:
@TechHits said:
Did you make the game? you can tell me, are you Reverge Labs?
No. But this is information coming straight from people who ARE working on the game. "You can tell me", what kind of passive-aggressive tripe is that?
@Tim_the_Corsair said:
Then they frankly need better time management skills. What he is listing as blowing out the timeframe could be minimised by cutting corners on it in order to have what is a fairly important feature for a named part of their target audience in the game. It could be prettied up and translated post-release. Of course, it should have just been done in the first place. Not saying its the end of the world, but I am saying it is a dumb mistake to make when building and selling a game that you have specifically discussed as being designed to help new players acclimatise to fighting games, in much the same way as saying "we have move lists, but we forgot to do the tutorial mode whoops LOL!" would also be a flaw when targeting a game at that audience. The petty name calling and lack of acknowledgement that this basic feature is something a game targeting new players should probably have built in just makes you sound like a fanboy.So basically this is an unforgivable mistake and no explanation will satisfy you. I.E. an argumentative idiot. It's not fanboyism to call someone an idiot for not listening to explanations that dispel their argument. I can perfectly understand your argument, but it is largely pointless because they are going to be putting the movelists in as soon as possible. They won't be there for launch, but they will be there as soon as they can get them in.
They had many plans. Bloodie Marie, the final boss, was supposed to also be a playable character, but again, they did not have enough time. Some things were cut to get the game out on schedule, but movelists at the very least will be put in ASAP.
That is the crux of the argument. It is unfortunate it will not have movelists at launch, but it's not like they're not going to implement them. They're planning to get them in as soon as humanly possible, so it's really not something people should be flipping their lids over. The way people are acting it's like Reverge Labs shot their dog or ruined their Mass Effect 3 ending.
dude you should calm down, no one cares as much as you're making them out to. By getting so emotional about it you are just fanning the flames so to speak.
Besides the fact that they said they want to patch this in... I just want to ask, if you really can't just take two seconds to mash some buttons to see what your character does, wtf are even doing? Do you just expect to open your move list at the start of every match or do you think it might be better to learn to stand on your own two fucking legs.
@TechHits said:
dude you should calm down, no one cares as much as you're making them out to. By getting so emotional about it you are just fanning the flames so to speak.
There's a bunch of people saying they won't buy the game due to this, ignoring that it'll be put in soon, so yeah, people DO care about it that much. Perhaps you ought to Stop Posting if you really don't care.
I don't think anyone on Giantbomb actually plays fighting games.
I think you are all phonies and liars.
@iAmJohn said:
How could you fuck something up that badly?
They didn't fuck it up, it wasn't a mistake, they didn't put one in on purpose because they only had a limited amount of time/money to get this game out and decided other things were more important than an in-game move list at launch.
@Overbite said:
@iAmJohn said:
How could you fuck something up that badly?
They didn't fuck it up, it wasn't a mistake, they didn't put one in on purpose because they only had a limited amount of time/money to get this game out and decided other things were more important than an in-game move list at launch.
Well then they're fucking stupid. It's a god damned move list in a fucking fighting game! It's, like, all the fucking content! You don't get to throw stones at your contemporaries for doing nothing to make fighting games accessible to a wider audience and not include the most basic fucking thing to teach people how to play the game.
Move lists don't teach you anything, you yourself do the teaching using the list as a reference.@Overbite said:
@iAmJohn said:
How could you fuck something up that badly?
They didn't fuck it up, it wasn't a mistake, they didn't put one in on purpose because they only had a limited amount of time/money to get this game out and decided other things were more important than an in-game move list at launch.
Well then they're fucking stupid. It's a god damned move list in a fucking fighting game! It's, like, all the fucking content! You don't get to throw stones at your contemporaries for doing nothing to make fighting games accessible to a wider audience and not include the most basic fucking thing to teach people how to play the game.
If the tutorials are as good as they say they are, a move list is not essential. if you can't remember your character's moves after an explicit and lengthy tutorial then you incompetent and shouldn't be playing fighting games.
Is this how the GB forums usually are? No one actually reads the posts in a thread before they reply?
Yes.Is this how the GB forums usually are? No one actually reads the posts in a thread before they reply?
@LordXavierBritish said:
@iAmJohn said:Move lists don't teach you anything, you yourself do the teaching using the list as a reference. If the tutorials are as good as they say they are, a move list is not essential. if you can't remember your character's moves after an explicit and lengthy tutorial then you incompetent and shouldn't be playing fighting games.@Overbite said:
@iAmJohn said:
How could you fuck something up that badly?
They didn't fuck it up, it wasn't a mistake, they didn't put one in on purpose because they only had a limited amount of time/money to get this game out and decided other things were more important than an in-game move list at launch.
Well then they're fucking stupid. It's a god damned move list in a fucking fighting game! It's, like, all the fucking content! You don't get to throw stones at your contemporaries for doing nothing to make fighting games accessible to a wider audience and not include the most basic fucking thing to teach people how to play the game.
For one, that assumes the tutorials are as good as they claim they are. And those tutorials better be the best fucking thing ever to make up for this, as far as I'm concerned. For two, it doesn't change the fact that it's a glaringly stupid omission that makes it more difficult to expand your audience beyond the people who typically give a shit about fighting games. Not giving you the ability to check your moves at any time just exacerbates the issue that most fighting games have where the way to learn how to be good at the game is not to play the game itself. Forcing me boot up a lengthy tutorial every time I want to learn how to play a character or see what their moves are just so I can fuck around with them (like I would want to do any time I'm playing with my friends, for example) is just another side of that same fucked up coin Capcom and other teams have done for years in giving you extensive moves lists and tutorials on how to perform certain combos without giving you any indication as to when you would want to use them or why.
You can't look at a move list during a multiplayer match, if you fail to learn your character without a move list then you shouldn't play fighting games.
If a character only has a few special moves with simple inputs, a tutorial is all you need to get that across. A move list is a luxury it is by no means essential.
@LordXavierBritish said:
@iAmJohn: The point is move lists don't teach you anything, and you shouldn't HAVE to look at a move list. You can't look at a move list during a multiplayer match, if you fail to learn your character without a move list then you shouldn't play fighting games. If a character only has a few special moves with simple inputs, a tutorial is all you need to get that across. A move list is a luxury it is by no means essential.
Because we all know that's how it always works - these games are very simple in their inputs and commands and don't have numerous variations and permutations on moves that could be used to set up combos that you're just expected to be able to belt off the top of your head.
This is exactly the kind of shit that I'm talking about, summed up wonderfully by your dickish comment that "you shouldn't play fighting games" if you can't learn a character without a move list. Funny how that sounds like a lot of the same shitty comments out of the FGC about how fighting games have had shitty tutorials that barely show you how to play the game at a basic level, let alone anything above that; you know, all those people who have made the argument for years on places like SRK that amounts to "Fuck you, I learned the game the hard way without tutorials or instructions so why can't you, you fucking noob?" A move list might not teach you any theory or skill (though since no other fighting game tutorial has ever done that, that's a pretty fucking moot point to bring up), but it's still an invaluable way to check and make sure you're doing the right thing or give you a quick refresher on the character that, if used properly, could be engrained into the learning process. Instead, they're just leaving it out and expecting me to play a character's tutorial every time I want to play with them and not feel like a complete idiot. Because that's a great way to expand the audience and get more people to get interested in fighting games - either sit through a lengthy tutorial or fend completely for yourself. It's barely a step removed from readily telling you all the moves but none of the theory that Capcom, Arc and others have been so fucking bad about for years.
But no, instead the attitude is, once again, "Fuck you, you shouldn't need that to be good."
Games great the tutorial teaches people to block thank god also move list isnt really needed its all quarter circles and charge and srk. Wish they had a challenge mode or something just so i can get an idea of what the character can do.
@LordXavierBritish said:
@MasterMind34 said:Yes.Is this how the GB forums usually are? No one actually reads the posts in a thread before they reply?
Not really. There are some people who like to dump their first reaction without reading further than the headline.
I don't get why people are getting worked up over this, it's been stated the list will come in a patch. If they were serious about learning the game they could just refer to the internet where everyone here is using right this moment while waiting for the patch. Or you know, experiment and practice with a character? Wouldn't do you any good to memorize the list if you can't fight a human player.
Unless it's because people want the move list for the ultra long combo where they just memorize that and repeatedly spam only that, in that case fuck them.
(DISCLAIMER: I read the entire thread)
I'd say a movelist is a vital part of a fighting game, at least the way I play them. The fact that they didn't have time to put this feature in makes me worried about what other features that might not be there or not work problem-free on launch day. If I was them I would've found a way to get a rudimentary movelist in, that might not have awesome art for every different character, or show a little clip of the move in action, or be perfectly sized for every resolution.
Again, if you don't have room in your planning to implement a simple movelist (not the mind blowingly awesome one that aparently costs 2 weeks to make) then I wonder what other things got scrapped or are released without proper balancing/testing.
I much rather wait for a move list to be patched in than my online to be fixed (looking at you SFxT).
I haven't played this game yet, please tell me the online isn't another gong show!!!
@jozzy said:
I wonder what other things got scrapped or are released without proper balancing/testing.
The balancing/testing part is perhaps the one thing in this entire game that had the most work done. This game was brought to fighting tournaments and played back when it only had 2 unfinished characters just to get the basics tested and balanced. People are going to shit all over this game no matter what but believe this, this game was tested extensively throughout its development.
@Overbite said:
@jozzy said:
I wonder what other things got scrapped or are released without proper balancing/testing.The balancing/testing part is perhaps the one thing in this entire game that had the most work done. This game was brought to fighting tournaments and played back when it only had 2 unfinished characters just to get the basics tested and balanced. People are going to shit all over this game no matter what but believe this, this game was tested extensively throughout its development.
I hope you are right, I really do. You can screw a lot up in a game in the last few weeks by rushing stuff because of deadlines.
@jozzy said:
@Overbite said:
@jozzy said:
I wonder what other things got scrapped or are released without proper balancing/testing.The balancing/testing part is perhaps the one thing in this entire game that had the most work done. This game was brought to fighting tournaments and played back when it only had 2 unfinished characters just to get the basics tested and balanced. People are going to shit all over this game no matter what but believe this, this game was tested extensively throughout its development.
I hope you are right, I really do. You can screw a lot up in a game in the last few weeks by rushing stuff because of deadlines.
I've been following this game for years and I do know that they've tested and balanced the fuck out of it. The lead designer is a fighting tournament regular and he knows his stuff. Every decision regarding the actual fighting is solid and done for a good reason, such as whiffing normals builds meter up to one bar, but whiffing normals while moving backward doesn't build any meter to prevent people from playing like Storm in MvC2. Yeah no move list at launch is kind of lame but the actual fighting is spot on.
There is a guide online and I'm looking though some of the movesets and having some time with the game. A movelist wouldn't hurt. The tutorial is good, but it doesn't teach how a certain character plays.
Most people would figure out that Cerebella is a grappler, but is she, half-circle (SNK-style) or Full-circles (which it is) so that is something you wouldn't know, just by dicking around int he tutorial mode.
just because there is no in-game move list does not mean the gameplay itself will be lacking. if you've watched the quick look, you'd know that all the coding was pretty much done before the artwork or UI was. this team values playability over all else, including move-lists-at-launch. plus, IT'S ON THE WAY. good on 'em.
@MasterMind34 said:
Is this how the GB forums usually are? No one actually reads the posts in a thread before they reply?
If I say yes will that make you leave forever?
The fact they offer up a reason means that the reason should automatically be accepted and the flaw is forgiven? Thats worked well for Bioware recently, so hold on a minute, let me go tell my boss that I didn't get this tender out on time because I was posting on the Giant Bomb forums about a fighting game with a guy reacting like a child to a minor amount of criticism...@TechHits said:
Did you make the game? you can tell me, are you Reverge Labs?
No. But this is information coming straight from people who ARE working on the game. "You can tell me", what kind of passive-aggressive tripe is that?
@Tim_the_Corsair said:
Then they frankly need better time management skills. What he is listing as blowing out the timeframe could be minimised by cutting corners on it in order to have what is a fairly important feature for a named part of their target audience in the game. It could be prettied up and translated post-release. Of course, it should have just been done in the first place. Not saying its the end of the world, but I am saying it is a dumb mistake to make when building and selling a game that you have specifically discussed as being designed to help new players acclimatise to fighting games, in much the same way as saying "we have move lists, but we forgot to do the tutorial mode whoops LOL!" would also be a flaw when targeting a game at that audience. The petty name calling and lack of acknowledgement that this basic feature is something a game targeting new players should probably have built in just makes you sound like a fanboy.So basically this is an unforgivable mistake and no explanation will satisfy you. I.E. an argumentative idiot. It's not fanboyism to call someone an idiot for not listening to explanations that dispel their argument. I can perfectly understand your argument, but it is largely pointless because they are going to be putting the movelists in as soon as possible. They won't be there for launch, but they will be there as soon as they can get them in.
They had many plans. Bloodie Marie, the final boss, was supposed to also be a playable character, but again, they did not have enough time. Some things were cut to get the game out on schedule, but movelists at the very least will be put in ASAP.
That is the crux of the argument. It is unfortunate it will not have movelists at launch, but it's not like they're not going to implement them. They're planning to get them in as soon as humanly possible, so it's really not something people should be flipping their lids over. The way people are acting it's like Reverge Labs shot their dog or ruined their Mass Effect 3 ending.
...what do you know, I just got fired!
Seriously, the people you are flipping out at (myself included) aren't saying its the end of the world. I am saying, however, that it was a dumb mistake to make. The fact they are patching it in is swell, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a missing feature considered important by an audience they are targeting.
If you can't acknowledge it is a flaw when compared to its contemporaries in the genre, and one that is important to a section of their audience, then yes, you are very much acting like a member of a fanboy defence force.
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