Is this game....racist?

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#151 Posted by StarvingGamer (8149 posts) -

I am Chinese. This game is not racist.

/dropmic

#152 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

Please, for the love of fuck, let a mod ban this troll.

#153 Posted by TMThomsen (2071 posts) -

He is my new favorite Giant Bomb user.

#154 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4339 posts) -

@evanbower: I forgot the thread title and the user's name so you're out of luck I'm afraid.

#155 Posted by Daneian (1228 posts) -

Asians are born with zen-like hyper awareness that allows them to go into slo-mo and win hot dog eating contests.

Online
#156 Posted by ProfessorEss (7323 posts) -

@Kraznor said:

Everyone knows kung-fu, your character has a massive dragon tattoo and you pray at Buddhist altars to increase your health. In short, yes, and it is most certainly hard to take seriously.

It's an action movie style action game. I don't think it's racist for everyone in a Hong Kong action flick to know kung-fu and be covered in dragon tattoos.

If it is then the Chinese movie industry is hyper-racist towards the Chinese.

#157 Posted by Milkman (16664 posts) -

@evanbower said:

@Colourful_Hippie: "Jam pointed objects in ear"? Somewhere along the way, I've missed out. Be a pal and link me?

Here ya go.

#158 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4339 posts) -

@ProfessorEss said:

@Kraznor said:

Everyone knows kung-fu, your character has a massive dragon tattoo and you pray at Buddhist altars to increase your health. In short, yes, and it is most certainly hard to take seriously.

It's an action movie style action game. I don't think it's racist for everyone in a Hong Kong action flick to know kung-fu and be covered in dragon tattoos.

If it is then the Chinese movie industry is hyper-racist towards the Chinese.

And all of the people who you fight don't all know kung-fu, saying that is more racist than anything in the game.

#159 Edited by believer258 (11797 posts) -

@Kraznor said:

@believer258: @believer258: All of those things are true and they are most certainly impacting my enjoyment of the game (the altars glow on top of it all, which I couldn't help laughing at). That narrative dissonance everyone talks about open-world games having is present here as well, only it is either much more problematic or I simply haven't played a game like this in a bit and its standing out because of it. Basically, everything I've played of this game makes me hate it.

That narrative dissonance has nothing to do with racism, though. Certainly it's an issue inherent to open world games unless your PC is a total psychopath (Here's lookin' at you, Saints Row), but that's not a complaint that can only be leveled at this game. You'll notice that the violence and brutality only escalates as Wei Shen slips farther and farther away from being a cop and closer to being a full-fledged and feared gang leader.

But on the racism bit, the only argument you've brought forth is that Wei has dragon tattoos and everyone knows kung-fu and the health shrines. OK, let's break this down real quick, all right?

1) Dragon tattoos. Isn't it possible that Wei just likes dragon tattoos and thus has a dragon tattoo? Or isn't it possible that he's at least appreciative of his Chinese culture and wants to show that?

2) Everyone knows kung fu. Not everyone in the story actually does know kung-fu, and wouldn't it make sense for the people in a Chinese street gang to have some knowledge of how to fight? Huh, funny how that works isn't it?

3) Health shrines. It's a gameplay mechanic. Deal with it. And again, this may be the game showing that he's appreciative of the culture around them.

Everything you've said seems to imply that you think representing a different culture might imply racism. It doesn't. Yes, this game could have been incredibly racist, but the fact is that Sleeping Dogs shows that the work was done to make sure that it wasn't racist.

Now, find something else to irrationally complain about.

#160 Posted by Tomkang (251 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@Abendlaender said:

@jdh5153 said:

@Abendlaender said:

Also some people talk, like, chinese or so. Soooooooo stereotypical

You miss the point. I know they're Chinese, I just think the game is making fun of them....

Serious question: Have you ever been in China?

Um no. They're communists though, so who cares if they're funny :P

Oh bloody hell, what is it with everyone thinking China is communist. If anyone did any history or politics at all they would know that NO COUNTRY HAVE EVER BEEN COMMUNIST. USSR, DPRK, China were/are socialist at most. the basis Communism where everything is shared equally.

But seriously just because you don't understand a culture, doesn't make anything to do with that culture a joke.

#161 Posted by Zella (730 posts) -

I think a lot of people here don't understand the difference between stereotypical and racist. Does the game use and both make fun of Chinese stereotypes? Yes. Is that racist? No. The game doesn't try to demean or lessen Chinese people at all.

Online
#162 Edited by ProfessorEss (7323 posts) -

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@ProfessorEss said:

@Kraznor said:

Everyone knows kung-fu, your character has a massive dragon tattoo and you pray at Buddhist altars to increase your health. In short, yes, and it is most certainly hard to take seriously.

It's an action movie style action game. I don't think it's racist for everyone in a Hong Kong action flick to know kung-fu and be covered in dragon tattoos.

If it is then the Chinese movie industry is hyper-racist towards the Chinese.

And all of the people who you fight don't all know kung-fu, saying that is more racist than anything in the game.

Wait, saying what is more racist than what now? I'm confused.

#163 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4339 posts) -

@ProfessorEss: Never mind, that comment was meant to be directed at the other guy. I'm saying that assuming that everyone in the game is capable of kung-fu is more racist than any of the points people have made as evidence of the game being racist.

#164 Posted by TooWalrus (13167 posts) -

I get up! And nothing gets down... You got it tough?! I've seen the toughest around. And I know, baby just how you feel. You've got to roll-roll-roll with the punches to get to what's real.

#165 Posted by tunaburn (1890 posts) -

i played this one game where this white guy had a cowboy hat and rode a horse.... fucking racist

#166 Posted by believer258 (11797 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

I get up! And nothing gets down... You got it tough?! I've seen the toughest around. And I know, baby just how you feel. You've got to roll-roll-roll with the punches to get to what's real.

Nothing gets me down.

#167 Posted by Deranged (1837 posts) -

Alright then... This has been amusing.

#168 Posted by Hailinel (24406 posts) -

I just beat the game earlier today, and it certainly didn't seem racist to me.

#169 Posted by TheFreeMan (2712 posts) -

I'm pretty sure not everybody in this game knows kung-fu. Shen knows martial arts and, like, everybody he fights doesn't, which is why he can beat the shit out of nine guys at a time. Cause he knows kung fu and they don't. And they take the time to come at him one a time, but it's mostly the martial arts. When you do fight guys who know martial arts (the monks at the temple, if you don't just run away), they're pretty tough to beat.

So yeah, that's weird to say everybody knows kung fu. Kung fu.

#170 Posted by Kraznor (1578 posts) -

@Colourful_Hippie: I thought Resident Evil 5 was kind of terrible, but I wasn't really offended by it on the grounds of racism. I'm not exactly offended by Sleeping Dogs on those grounds either, I just think both are underthought in a lot of ways and I don't enjoy playing them. The glowing Buddhist altars thing is just annoying to me though. Again, not because its stereotyping exactly, just seeing a glowing magic thing you stand in front of to get health bonuses couldn't be less immersion-breaking.

#171 Posted by Kraznor (1578 posts) -

@Colourful_Hippie: All I know is I've run into several gangs of random thugs and they all seem to have some handle on martial arts. It is indeed emulating corny Hong Kong action films but in a way I find at best bland and at worst, kind of disturbing.

#172 Posted by Hailinel (24406 posts) -

@TheFreeMan said:

I'm pretty sure not everybody in this game knows kung-fu. Shen knows martial arts and, like, everybody he fights doesn't, which is why he can beat the shit out of nine guys at a time. Cause he knows kung fu and they don't. And they take the time to come at him one a time, but it's mostly the martial arts. When you do fight guys who know martial arts (the monks at the temple, if you don't just run away), they're pretty tough to beat.

So yeah, that's weird to say everybody knows kung fu. Kung fu.

Kung Fu?

#173 Posted by Kraznor (1578 posts) -

@believer258: I guess bottom-line, I really dislike this game and find it a chore to play for a number of reasons. The only topic I saw posted that was at all recent indicating a negative stance on the game was this one so I aired some of my grievances and a few minor ones I was a lot less passionate about in regards to what I feel is a generic, uninteresting lead character (who happens to have dragon tattoos, which I found cliched as all get out, but I GUESS a case could be made for a legitimate, honorable reason one might want to get a giant dragon tattoo) and a really goofy game mechanic I find distracting and silly in the shrines. All of this creates a character I don't want to play as, in a setting I don't find interesting in a game I find bland and problematic.

As for gangs knowing how to fight, sure, that was me searching for a third point of contension because two isn't enough for a good sentence.

And saying all open-world games have narrative dissonance doesn't make it any less of a problem here. I found this case especially pronounced due to the conceit of you being a police officer. Yes, the structured narrative may guide you down a path where things get worse and worse, but if the player can do all sorts of insanely violent things right from the story and only get dinged a couple dollars, its still ridiculous.

And while I'm at it, I didn't fancy the writing I've encountered thus far either. The scene where they introduce Emma Stone's character was absurdly hammy.

I didn't like a game you like. Sorry, not trying to troll, just posting thoughts about a game in a forum about said game. Maybe I chose a slightly tangential topic to do so but there it is.

#174 Posted by Kraznor (1578 posts) -

@TheFreeMan: Fair enough, that was by far my weakest point so I admit it was an early judgment based on the volume of fighting I've gone through thus far. I more or less just wanted to say "yo, I don't like this game" and thought this topic was kinda/sorta on a negative enough note to do so without starting a new one and getting all sorts of outcry directed squarely at me.

#175 Posted by avidwriter (667 posts) -

If you find something racist that isn't trying to be that just means you're racist.

#176 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4339 posts) -

@Kraznor: Alright, at least I don't think you're a crazy person anymore.

#177 Posted by believer258 (11797 posts) -

@Kraznor: Disliking a game that I like is fine, it was the misrepresentation that I took issue with.

But it's all fine now, I guess. If you dislike a game, though, you can write about it in a blog or write a review.

#178 Edited by feliciano182 (100 posts) -

@believer258 said:

I've never been to Hong Kong so I can't tell, but... if Hong Kong actually has dead chickens, fish, and spikey hair everywhere then no? The game hardly seems like it paints Chinese people as a "lesser" people or whatever so no, I don't think it's racist. The thought never crossed my mind.

Are you trolling?

Some people here need to relax.

I haven't yet played Sleeping Dogs, and while I don't believe the things described by the author of the topic are particular evidence of racism, many people misunderstand where this type of issues come from, "racism" isn't simply the idea that people are lesser or inferior to others, it involves some particularly defined forms of stereotyping, which at the same time indicate the presence of ignorant prejudices and attitudes towards members of varying ethnicities.

I'm not sure if this is the case with Sleeping Dogs, but the proper reaction to this shouldn't be to mock the author for making a generally legitimate complaint to a game, but rather to ponder and reflect wether the game in question is or isn't stereotyping chinese people.

#179 Edited by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@ProfessorEss: Never mind, that comment was meant to be directed at the other guy. I'm saying that assuming that everyone in the game is capable of kung-fu is more racist than any of the points people have made as evidence of the game being racist.

That isn't racism, it's a stereotype.

Racism is the belief that one race is better than another.

#180 Posted by believer258 (11797 posts) -

@feliciano182 said:

@believer258 said:

I've never been to Hong Kong so I can't tell, but... if Hong Kong actually has dead chickens, fish, and spikey hair everywhere then no? The game hardly seems like it paints Chinese people as a "lesser" people or whatever so no, I don't think it's racist. The thought never crossed my mind.

Are you trolling?

Some people here need to relax.

I haven't yet played Sleeping Dogs, and while I don't believe the things described by the author of the topic are particular evidence of racism, many people misunderstand where this type of issues come from, "racism" isn't simply the idea that people are lesser or inferior to others, it involves some particularly defined forms of stereotyping, which at the same time indicate the presence of ignorant prejudices and attitudes towards members of varying ethnicities.

I'm not sure if this is the case with Sleeping Dogs, but the proper reaction to this shouldn't be to mock the author for making a generally legitimate complaint to a game, but rather to ponder and reflect wether the game in question is or isn't stereotyping chinese people.

Have you read the rest of this thread? Particularly the parts where the OP said he was laughing at the stereotypical parts of the game?

In the meantime, I did reflect a bit on it, and so did a number of people here - and it seems like they all agree that this game is not racist in any Wei, shape, or form.

#181 Posted by feliciano182 (100 posts) -

@believer258 said:

Have you read the rest of this thread? Particularly the parts where the OP said he was laughing at the stereotypical parts of the game?

In the meantime, I did reflect a bit on it, and so did a number of people here - and it seems like they all agree that this game is not racist in any Wei, shape, or form.

I'm not saying he's right, but people have responded to the thread as if it was a thing you could easily brush off, as if racist stereotypes in videogames were not a common thing.

#182 Posted by Nikoran (165 posts) -

Yeah, this is the asian grand theft auto, it sold BILLIONS.

#183 Posted by XaroX (9 posts) -

I never thought it was racist, in fact I never thought of race or racism at all while playing it, I just enjoyed the game for what it was, and it's awesome

#184 Posted by TooWalrus (13167 posts) -

@believer258 said:

In the meantime, I did reflect a bit on it, and so did a number of people here - and it seems like they all agree that this game is not racist in any Wei, shape, or form.

...heh

#185 Posted by Neutralnaut (4 posts) -

This thread's creator is another example of an ignorant guy who thinks he knows stereotypes.

#186 Posted by probablytuna (3614 posts) -

The things that bugged me about this game are factual errors, like having green taxis in Central. GREEN TAXIS ONlY EXIST IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORIES.

#187 Edited by Everyones_A_Critic (6296 posts) -

I opened my copy and it tried to eat my dog.

I don't have a dog. You're overanalyzing things.

#188 Edited by Monkeythumbz (23 posts) -

This thread.

#189 Edited by dandead (171 posts) -

@Kraznor: Yeah, one focused on misperceived interpretations of "racism". The only valid criticism you just threw out was the cognitive dissonance in the game because you're supposed to be a cop. If you really think those things you listed point to racism then you were probably among the intelligent crowds of people who thought Resident Evil 5 was racist.

Correction he is a hong kong action movie cop and as we all know they never play by the rules... :D

#190 Posted by Nictel (2412 posts) -

Yes. This racism against chickens in vans must stop!

#191 Edited by Ennosuke (59 posts) -

Totally right! Never forget!

@nictel said:

Yes. This racism against chickens in vans must stop!

#192 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -
The answer may surprise you.

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