Lets talk about a good ending once this year.

#1 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

I beat sleeping dogs today and quite like the ending. It's a good bad guys get screwed over, but sadly some good guys do too.

#2 Posted by TooWalrus (13167 posts) -

Max Payne 3 had max literally walking off into the sunset. It was magical.

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#3 Posted by Nightriff (4991 posts) -

For endings this year:

  • Binary Domain
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Spec Ops
  • Journey (I cried a little at the end)

Been a great year for endings

#4 Posted by Aetheldod (3554 posts) -

I will say Journey .... but , no yeah Journey´s is awesome.

#5 Posted by Animasta (14673 posts) -

Hotline Miami

Final Fantasy 13-2 (this is more of a love or hate it thing but I love it)

Persona 4 Arena

SMT: Devil Survivor 2

#6 Posted by believer258 (11800 posts) -

I agree. For the single infamous ending, we seem to have had more than enough to make up for it. Especially Sleeping Dogs, that game has the makings of a cult classic.

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#7 Posted by EquitasInvictus (2025 posts) -

I agree, Sleeping Dogs really managed to resolve everything in the most ideal way possible considering everything leading up to it.

@Animasta said:

Persona 4 Arena

How about that whole unresolved issue with the "malevolent entity," though?

I did thoroughly enjoy that/those ending(s), though! The aforementioned regarding the very end of certain arcs notwithstanding, the resolution of the overarching conflict involving Labrys was sweet.
#8 Posted by FilipHolm (667 posts) -

Journey wins in every category for me this year. A real masterpiece

#9 Posted by Kidavenger (3532 posts) -

Agreeing with Sleeping Dogs, great ending to a great story, so happy I ended up playing that game.

#10 Posted by Dagbiker (6970 posts) -

Spec Ops the line was one of the few games I have finished this year. And I am totally glad I did.

But I still hold a grudge over Ghost Trick.

#11 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

Max Payne 3 had max literally walking off into the sunset. It was magical.

everything wrapped up pretty quickly, but i was real happy with how Max Payne 3 ended. felt like something that Max kind of deserved by the end of it all. actually, i was happy with pretty much all of the story stuff in that game, despite how terrible some things went.

as for sleeping dogs, i liked how that ended too but i felt like everything closed up too quickly. for some of the crazy events that happen at the end, i think it could have done with a few more minutes of story but at least they managed to close everything up well.

#12 Edited by iAmJohn (6117 posts) -

I did not like the ending of this game. I found it rushed and thought that it tied up its loose ends way too conveniently. Plus, the obvious open ending was pretty hacky.

I guess the only ending I've really liked so far this year was Spec Ops'. EDIT: Well, The Darkness II went out on a pretty high note, now that I think about it. And Fez.

Online
#13 Edited by awesomeusername (4174 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

Max Payne 3 had max literally walking off into the sunset. It was magical.

This! I beat the game last night and him walking off like that made me happy. I don't know why. It just did. Man, this years big games had shithole endings.

2012=Year of Shitty Endings

Also, The Darkness II's ending was messed up but I liked it. Papo & Yo's ending made me want to cry. I liked the ending to Connor's story in Assassin's Creed 3 but Desmond's ending was shit.

#14 Posted by adam1808 (1452 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

Max Payne 3 had max literally walking off into the sunset. It was magical.

I enjoyed that bit. The fact that a game this year actually ends with "And our hero walked off into the sunset" is pretty fantastic.

#15 Posted by Pezen (1594 posts) -

As much as I loved Sleeping Dogs that ending is fucking dog shit. Remember his speech to his superior about "It's not over. We have just stirred the pot. Nothing has changed." and he goes off on his own to really bring down the gang. However, once the game ends, nothing has fucking changed. It's a new boss and the gang remains intact. Also, on top of that, he basically sends his boss a death sentence that seemed not only comparatively harsh but also quite out of character. Honestly, I love Sleeping Dogs, despite it's ending.

#16 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

Well pendrew was a dirty cop from the start, then he screws you over and you get back him. The whole point of sleeping dogs is, yes these are triads but their still likable people. Some of them are actually good people.

#17 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

Journey has the best ending of any game ever. To accomplish what they did with no words and no cut scenes is a remarkable feat.

#18 Posted by cannonballBAM (602 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

But I still hold a grudge over Ghost Trick.

wait, why?

#19 Posted by Strife777 (1520 posts) -

Reading all of this, I'm starting to feel bad for not playing Journey yet (AND I BOUGHT IT!). It's sitting there, waiting for me.

Also I want Spec Ops: The Line to drop in price a little more, I don't feel comfortable buying it yet.

#20 Posted by gaminghooligan (1435 posts) -

I loved sleeping dogs' ending. felt like a Johnnie To movie, that game is really high up on my top ten list for 2012, GTA V is going to have a game to compete with

#21 Posted by papercut (3474 posts) -

Mass Effect 3....nah I'm just kidding Spec Ops for sure. I'll throw Persona 4 Arena in there too.

Also, I hope that the ending to Walking Dead will be "good."

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#22 Posted by Manhattan_Project (2140 posts) -

Wait people actually like the terrible final 2 hours of Sleeping Dogs? What.

#23 Posted by Nightriff (4991 posts) -

@awesomeusername: You must have played shit games this year then cause out of the few games I got to play so far, I have loved all their endings.

#24 Posted by ajamafalous (11959 posts) -
@Pezen said:

Also, on top of that, he basically sends his boss a death sentence that seemed not only comparatively harsh but also quite out of character.

What? Did you miss the several events where Pendrew completely fucked Wei? That part of the ending wasn't the least bit out of character or unbelievable.
 
 
That being said, I was a little disappointed with the ending for pretty much these reasons:
@iAmJohn said:

I found it rushed and thought that it tied up its loose ends way too conveniently. Plus, the obvious open ending was pretty hacky.

I was really hoping for an ending choice where I got to pick whether I wanted to continue down the cop path or the triad path.
 
 
I am still really looking forward to a sequel, though. I enjoyed everything about the game and wasn't upset with the ending, just disappointed that they took the path of least resistance.
#25 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

@awesomeusername said:

Also, The Darkness II's ending was messed up but I liked it. Papo & Yo's ending made me want to cry. I liked the ending to Connor's story in Assassin's Creed 3 but Desmond's ending was shit.

Yeah, I was going to come and say this. Jackie got redemption, sort of, but then his girlfriend turns into a crazy Angel woman.

Hype for a sequel. Darkness II was surprisingly great, and dealt with his relationship in quite a mature way (let's forget about the little, pissing monkey-demon).

Darksiders II had a soggy, half-baked ending. Considering the foot-stomping ending the first game had, it was pretty dismal - especially when the game's last act had really brought everything together in a pretty meaningful way.

#26 Posted by Tennmuerti (8073 posts) -

@Kidavenger said:

Agreeing with Sleeping Dogs, great ending to a great story, so happy I ended up playing that game.

Quoting for truth.

#27 Edited by Tennmuerti (8073 posts) -

@Pezen said:

As much as I loved Sleeping Dogs that ending is fucking dog shit. Remember his speech to his superior about "It's not over. We have just stirred the pot. Nothing has changed." and he goes off on his own to really bring down the gang. However, once the game ends, nothing has fucking changed. It's a new boss and the gang remains intact. Also, on top of that, he basically sends his boss a death sentence that seemed not only comparatively harsh but also quite out of character. Honestly, I love Sleeping Dogs, despite it's ending.

Things have changed however (as far as they can change anyway). The new leader of the triads is taking them away from the completely criminal and unnecessary (inefficient) violence. She is legitimizing large parts of their operation and works on preserving stability and things in good running order rather then brute force crime and fear tactics. And the most barbaric power players have been removed.

One man was never going to bring down an entire criminal organisation, no matter what. And someone will always step in to take their place regardless, that's just how the world operates, a power vacuum will fill itself and frequently the best course of action is to ensure that such is more benevolent and controlled then the previous guiding force. It's a more grounded narrative.

Pendrew got what was coming to him. He directly betrayed Wei. And I don't know what picture you built up of Wei but the entire game has shown he is quite capable of violence, exacting retribution, and is highly protective of those he believes his friends/family whom Pandrew set up and is responsible for getting many of killed.

#28 Posted by Dagbiker (6970 posts) -
@cannonballBAM It should have gotten some kind of mention on last years GOTY
#29 Posted by BBAlpert (1443 posts) -

@Nightriff said:

For endings this year:

  • Binary Domain
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Spec Ops
  • Journey (I cried a little at the end)

Been a great year for endings

For Asura's Wrath, are we talking about the normal ending, the "full" ending, or the "just kidding, THIS is the full ending" DLC? Because as bad a precedent as it sets in terms of business models, AW's DLC was totally worth it.

#30 Posted by Pezen (1594 posts) -

@Tennmuerti: I don't necessarily think the ending really either A; gave you the idea that Wei felt he learned the lesson that someone will always take someone else's place and thus support a lesser of two evils. Or B; given you the idea that Wei have accepted the nature of the change made and made peace with what he couldn't accomplish. It felt abrupt and I personally felt like he wasn't done when the game ended. It felt like things were left hanging incomplete and unresolved, especially considering how dedicated he seemed to be at the notion of bringing down the entire organization. Sure, it may be a more grounded story to not have him by himself be able to do that, but if that was the case, the game did a poor job delivering that notion to me as he seemed to be portrayed as an undercover supercop.

As for Pendrew, how did he betray Wei? Wei effectively disregarded an order (when he was told things were done, and he refused since he wanted to take down all of Sun On Yee) from a superior basically making him go rogue. Wei made himself Pendrew's antagonist by choice, and ended up in the shit by his own doing. The fact that Pendrew later fell on his own sword doesn't make Wei morally superior in their last exchange in my opinion. Maybe I overestimated Wei's sense of justice and law, but having the story imply that Pendrew will get killed for basically only shooting Uncle Po is strange considering the amount of death's Wei is responsible for himself. I can't quite follow the game's logic that tries to make Pendrew such a bad guy, though he certainly was a grade A asshole. I keep coming back to the notion that Wei is a cop, so even if he felt some connection to the people (aside from Jackie, which he obviously cared for) in the Sun On Yee, he still should have some guidelines of justice and realize his "friends" are their own undoing for being criminals in the first place. Feel free to hit me up with some knowledge, because I'm open to the notion that I'm missing some key thing here.

#31 Edited by Tennmuerti (8073 posts) -

@Pezen:

Wei accomplished what he set out to do, namely to stop Big Smile Lee, which is what his mission quickly evolved into after infiltration. It straight up showed you the fact that he was fine with how things stood by remaining on good terms with both the Triad boss and the police, and being content himself too. To me everything that was set up was resolved.

Pandrew straight up told the murdering sycopaths where the funeral was going to be, willing to sacrifice Wei's life just because of a disobeyed order. Order or no order he chose to knowingly kill Wei and his triad friends. And this is after taking in Jackie against Wei wished, which likewise resulted in a friends death. Law and right or wrong stops at this point, or who started what. Wei is hugely loyal to his friends, Pandrew scerwed his closest friend over, his triad/family, and Wei himself.

Nor has Wei himself as a cop moved away from justice, justice is separate from a superior giving you an order as such an order can in itself be unjust or otherwise wrong. Law and justice are just likewise not necessarily the same thing.

#32 Edited by Yummylee (21506 posts) -

I wasn't all that engaged in Sleeping Dog's story. I was especially surprised at how Jackie's 'arc' was given praise since I thought it was highly predictable and that he was kind of an annoying character overall. Its ending was fine, it's just I enjoyed Sleeping Dogs for a whole host of reasons and the story wasn't one of them.

Anywhoo Dragon's Dogma has a kickass ending... it damn neared saved the entire game for me.

#33 Posted by Silvergun (297 posts) -

I'm sure this is going to be really popular, but I really loved Mass Effect 3's (new) destroy ending. It really had a great message, that at the end of the day, it was the various races of the galaxy working together that beat back the Reapers, and that same will would see the galaxy rebuilt. I'm a sucker for stuff like that which has a really humanistic bent though!

#34 Posted by Pezen (1594 posts) -

@Tennmuerti: Interesting, I think it's not so much that I missed anything, rather it's you and me disagreeing on the "moral of the story" as it were. For you, Wei and his "friends" are the sympathetic bunch and Pendrew is the man killing them. Sure, Pendrew sent the dogs on Sun On Yee and in doing so Wei, but as said, Wei deliberately put himself in that position and none of his "friends" were supposed to be his friends in the first place since he's an undercover cop. They are still people on the wrong side of the law, not his family. Wei didn't want Pendrew to take in Jackie because he cared for Jackie, something he never told his superiors. He also never told his superiors that Jackie wanted out. Nor did he help/push Jackie to get out. I find that to be a really disheartening. Overall I think you're putting a lot of blame on Pendrew that is circumstantial at best.

To me the overarching goal was to take down the Sun On Yee, not just Big Smile Lee. But the game ended on taking down one and accepting the other of two evils and sentencing someone equally as corrupt as himself. And by corrupt I mean simply by the book, not by his own moral principles. He tried to protect those he cared for and brought hell on those who opposed him. But that's also why him being a cop is important to me. The game makes Wei out to be at constant odds with his superiors, even the first encounter, a trait I never found flattering because it seemed really unjustified. I just don't think the game makes a good enough case against Pendrew being such a big bad guy, when the hero of the story is Wei. Had the hero been the lady cop you do missions for, I might sing a different tune.

But that's just me, I think we're just looking at some things differently. Ah well, that's the joy of any good story (or dare I say art in general), that people can get completely different views on the thing.

#35 Posted by Ducksworth (660 posts) -

Although not out yet, Walking Dead Episode 5 sounds like it'll be one heck of a finale.

#36 Edited by Tennmuerti (8073 posts) -

@Pezen said:

@Tennmuerti: Interesting, I think it's not so much that I missed anything, rather it's you and me disagreeing on the "moral of the story" as it were.

Not quite correct. I personally only view Wei as sympathetic not his friends. But this is irrelevant to the point I was making.

My argument is not from my viewpoint. It's from the viewpoint of Wei. I am not mortally judging anyone either him or Pandrew for the purposes of this. I am simply stating the fact on how a man in Wei's position would view the events. Right or wrong Pandrew tried to kill him, his family, and is responsible for his friends torture and death.

Overall I think you're putting a lot of blame on Pendrew that is circumstantial at best.

NO. This is not a point up for debate. There is a very simple cause and effect. Pandrew knew where Wei would be and knowingly, deliberately, allows the slaughter. This is black and white. This is the third time I am repeating this fact. You keep dancing around this issue, trying to somehow absolve Pandrew. But this is not how events occurred, plain and simple. Yes he tells Wei to back off, but Wei directly tells him that he will carry on, Pandrew knows Wei will be there and still allows the hit. He is even present right before the slaughter starts!

Pandrew also kills Po (whom Wei respects) in cold blood, a defenseless man, to advance his career, as he himself says. Circumstantial?

In my eyes Pandrew is a ruthless motherfucker that is cold blooded in his calculation and manipulation of people willing to sacrifice human lives, and does in fact do so.

To me the overarching goal was to take down the Sun On Yee, not just Big Smile Lee.

But the game never stated or implied this goal. You were simply incorrect in your assumption. Initial infiltration was with a general purpose: disruption of Sun On Yee activities, intelligence gathering, etc. No one has ever asked of Wei to take down the entire organisation, nor he himself had that as a goal. In fact several of the police characters try to pull Wei out a few times through ought the story. Telling him the job is over. Even the lofty goal of killing Big Smile Lee was his own initiative, not that of the law.

#37 Posted by awesomeusername (4174 posts) -

@GetEveryone said:

@awesomeusername said:

Also, The Darkness II's ending was messed up but I liked it.

Yeah, I was going to come and say this. Jackie got redemption, sort of, but then his girlfriend turns into a crazy Angel woman.Hype for a sequel.

I too am hyped for a sequel. I just beat it like 3 weeks ago and even though I'm tired of shooters, it was fun and fresh with the demon powers. But man, that ending was fucked up. I laughed. But not because it was funny. I laughed because I couldn't believe what just happened. I knew she was going to be the angel thing. I just didn't see the leaving him behind part coming. I also am going to start Darksiders soon. Probably after I beat Enslaved and The Sly Collection.

@Nightriff said:

@awesomeusername: You must have played shit games this year then cause out of the few games I got to play so far, I have loved all their endings.

I've beat 24 retail and 4 downloadable games. Only almost half of them were 2012 games.

  • Mass Effect 3
  • Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
  • Prototype 2
  • Max Payne 3
  • Dishonored
  • The Darkness 2
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Assassin's Creed 3
  • The Walking Dead - One more episode!
  • Quantum Conundrum - Haven't beat
  • Papo & Yo
  • The Unfinished Swan

The only game endings that I liked were Mass Effect 3, Max Payne 3, The Darkness 2, and Papo & Yo.

#38 Posted by Optix12 (612 posts) -

Sleeping Dogs was one of the games of this year that had me just play for hours because I have the attention span of a 5 year old with games. I liked the ending but also felt it was rushed, possibly due to the story of how sleeping dogs was on and off for so long? I plan on picking the walking dead up on the next steam sale as from reactions ive seen that looks like a brilliant story and im heavily invested in that world. With that said I think im leaving this thread before any more talk about Assassins Creed gets said.

#39 Posted by mrfluke (5130 posts) -

sleeping dogs and asuras wrath are really the best good endings this year.

sleeping dogs felt like the end of a good cop movie,

while asuras wrath was the end of a most epic of animes

#40 Posted by Pezen (1594 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

My argument is not from my viewpoint. It's from the viewpoint of Wei. I am not mortally judging anyone either him or Pandrew for the purposes of this. I am simply stating the fact on how a man in Wei's position would view the events. Right or wrong Pandrew tried to kill him, his family, and is responsible for his friends torture and death.

I don't really see where you were arguing from his point of view. Best case scenario, you're still arguing from your interpretation of the events and your image of Wei as there is no way to get his view on the events other than viewing the events unfold. And I don't see how your interpretation of what kind of man Wei might be would be any way more accurate than someone else's interpretation of him. But maybe I'm missing your point entirely.

Further more, what family?

@Tennmuerti said:

NO. This is not a point up for debate. There is a very simple cause and effect. Pandrew knew where Wei would be and knowingly, deliberately, allows the slaughter. This is black and white. This is the third time I am repeating this fact. You keep dancing around this issue, trying to somehow absolve Pandrew. But this is not how events occurred, plain and simple. Yes he tells Wei to back off, but Wei directly tells him that he will carry on, Pandrew knows Wei will be there and still allows the hit. He is even present right before the slaughter starts!

I am not dancing around the issue, what I'm saying is Wei brought a lot of that event upon himself. He deliberately sided with the Son On Yee, opposed his superiors orders and effectively going rogue. Even if Pendrew wasn't on a manipulative power hunt, Wei was still looming on the wrong side of the law and being in the middle of a gang war is still his own doing. What we have there is two forces working for two different goals on the same "side" yet complete opposing views on how to get to their own goals. Excluding Wei's part in that event is ridiculous. To me, that was one of those moments were Wei's conflicting loyalties got him burnt. Pendrew isn't innocent, but I wouldn't call Wei a victim of betrayal.

@Tennmuerti said:

Pandrew also kills Po (whom Wei respects) in cold blood, a defenseless man, to advance his career, as he himself says. Circumstantial?

As said, killing Po was the only direct thing Pendrew did (graveyard being indirect influence). Yes, he would advance his career and no that part isn't circumstantial. But what I am trying to get across is that the game doesn't actually portray Pendrew to be as bad as that last scene makes him out to be judged as. The game is filled with vile humans, Pendrew certainly isn't the worst. And honestly, Po isn't an angel, defenseless or not.

What I meant by circumstantial is, for example, the fate of Jackie. Which has little direct correlation to Pendrew.

@Tennmuerti said:

In my eyes Pandrew is a ruthless motherfucker that is cold blooded in his calculation and manipulation of people willing to sacrifice human lives, and does in fact do so.

Most people in that game is willing to sacrifice human lives for their own gain.

@Tennmuerti said:

But the game never stated or implied this goal. You were simply incorrect in your assumption. Initial infiltration was with a general purpose: disruption of Sun On Yee activities, intelligence gathering, etc. No one has ever asked of Wei to take down the entire organisation, nor he himself had that as a goal. In fact several of the police characters try to pull Wei out a few times through ought the story. Telling him the job is over. Even the lofty goal of killing Big Smile Lee was his own initiative, not that of the law.

I get that, but Wei himself (who's viewpoint you wanted to argue for earlier) says, when Pendrew says it's over, that it's not over since nothing has changed. And if he was to do the job he wanted to do it right and bring down all of the organization. The fact that the game veers away from that goal and focuses entirely on Big Smile Lee doesn't really change the fact that he express the desire to bring down the entire organization. And if that wasn't really that important, then why simply not quit when Pendrew told him to quit?

#41 Edited by Tennmuerti (8073 posts) -

@Pezen said:

@Tennmuerti said:

My argument is not from my viewpoint. It's from the viewpoint of Wei. I am not mortally judging anyone either him or Pandrew for the purposes of this. I am simply stating the fact on how a man in Wei's position would view the events. Right or wrong Pandrew tried to kill him, his family, and is responsible for his friends torture and death.

I don't really see where you were arguing from his point of view. Best case scenario, you're still arguing from your interpretation of the events and your image of Wei as there is no way to get his view on the events other than viewing the events unfold. And I don't see how your interpretation of what kind of man Wei might be would be any way more accurate than someone else's interpretation of him. But maybe I'm missing your point entirely.

Further more, what family?

I already put forward in earlier posts what kind of a man this game shows him to be. Do you disagree with that interpretation, so far you haven't? I am arguing from his viewpoint, as his character is presented, what would Wei do, think, and behave after such a betrayal; not whether I think such a setup by Pendrew was good or bad, and regardless of what I personally morally think of his or Wei's actions.

By family i mean the Water Street Gang. This is how Wei starts to treat them and refer to them.

@Tennmuerti said:

NO. This is not a point up for debate. There is a very simple cause and effect. Pandrew knew where Wei would be and knowingly, deliberately, allows the slaughter. This is black and white. This is the third time I am repeating this fact. You keep dancing around this issue, trying to somehow absolve Pandrew. But this is not how events occurred, plain and simple. Yes he tells Wei to back off, but Wei directly tells him that he will carry on, Pandrew knows Wei will be there and still allows the hit. He is even present right before the slaughter starts!

I am not dancing around the issue, what I'm saying is Wei brought a lot of that event upon himself. He deliberately sided with the Son On Yee, opposed his superiors orders and effectively going rogue. Even if Pendrew wasn't on a manipulative power hunt, Wei was still looming on the wrong side of the law and being in the middle of a gang war is still his own doing. What we have there is two forces working for two different goals on the same "side" yet complete opposing views on how to get to their own goals. Excluding Wei's part in that event is ridiculous. To me, that was one of those moments were Wei's conflicting loyalties got him burnt. Pendrew isn't innocent, but I wouldn't call Wei a victim of betrayal.

Irrelevant to the argument. Again please read, I am not arguing whether or not Wei is wrong or right.

I am arguing against the fact that you keep insisting Pandrew is somehow not a bad person. Using excuses like circumstantial. Actions of Pandrew are being discussed and his character. A man who sacrifices others and is willing to murder in cold blood for his own gain (even gloat about the fact), or kill even if by inaction a former colleague when he is fully capable of preventing a massacre. That is not a good or even a grey person.

@Tennmuerti said:

Pandrew also kills Po (whom Wei respects) in cold blood, a defenseless man, to advance his career, as he himself says. Circumstantial?

As said, killing Po was the only direct thing Pendrew did (graveyard being indirect influence). Yes, he would advance his career and no that part isn't circumstantial. But what I am trying to get across is that the game doesn't actually portray Pendrew to be as bad as that last scene makes him out to be judged as. The game is filled with vile humans, Pendrew certainly isn't the worst. And honestly, Po isn't an angel, defenseless or not.

What I meant by circumstantial is, for example, the fate of Jackie. Which has little direct correlation to Pendrew.

And i am talking about the overall character of Pandrew as the game portrays him by his actions. All of them.

Are we still in disagreement that Pandrew is a scumbag? Or are you now in agreement with me?

@Tennmuerti said:

In my eyes Pandrew is a ruthless motherfucker that is cold blooded in his calculation and manipulation of people willing to sacrifice human lives, and does in fact do so.

Most people in that game is willing to sacrifice human lives for their own gain.

Yes i am well aware, what's your point? Because everyone is dirty Pandrew should not have been so treated at the end by Wei?

The argument started because you felt it was out of character for Wei to screw Pandrew back in the end was it not? I think I have sufficiently explained and shown by now that what Wei did to Pandrew was both inline with Wei's other actions and character as the game paints him; and secondly that we really shouldn't feel bad for Pandrew as a quite nasty human being, he simply got his comeuppance.

@Tennmuerti said:

But the game never stated or implied this goal. You were simply incorrect in your assumption. Initial infiltration was with a general purpose: disruption of Sun On Yee activities, intelligence gathering, etc. No one has ever asked of Wei to take down the entire organisation, nor he himself had that as a goal. In fact several of the police characters try to pull Wei out a few times through ought the story. Telling him the job is over. Even the lofty goal of killing Big Smile Lee was his own initiative, not that of the law.

I get that, but Wei himself (who's viewpoint you wanted to argue for earlier) says, when Pendrew says it's over, that it's not over since nothing has changed.

Correct.

And if he was to do the job he wanted to do it right and bring down all of the organization.

Incorrect.

At the very start maybe. But he quickly became one of them and started to care for them. Certainly by the junction you are talking about (when Panrew says it's over) his personal objective was to preserve the Sun On Lee, not destroy them.

The fact that the game veers away from that goal and focuses entirely on Big Smile Lee doesn't really change the fact that he express the desire to bring down the entire organization. And if that wasn't really that important, then why simply not quit when Pendrew told him to quit?

Because Big Smile Lee wasn't dead, and he would turn the Sun On Lee into a much more ruthless brutal and criminal organisation, take them down the dark path.

#42 Posted by Nightriff (4991 posts) -

@BBAlpert said:

@Nightriff said:

For endings this year:

  • Binary Domain
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Spec Ops
  • Journey (I cried a little at the end)

Been a great year for endings

For Asura's Wrath, are we talking about the normal ending, the "full" ending, or the "just kidding, THIS is the full ending" DLC? Because as bad a precedent as it sets in terms of business models, AW's DLC was totally worth it.

I was fine with the normal ending and if I never knew about the true ending or the DLC I would've been fine with it. But the DLC Ending was pretty fucking awesome.

#43 Posted by Nightriff (4991 posts) -

@awesomeusername said:

@Nightriff said:

@awesomeusername: You must have played shit games this year then cause out of the few games I got to play so far, I have loved all their endings.

I've beat 24 retail and 4 downloadable games. Only almost half of them were 2012 games.

  • Mass Effect 3
  • Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
  • Prototype 2
  • Max Payne 3
  • Dishonored
  • The Darkness 2
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Assassin's Creed 3
  • The Walking Dead - One more episode!
  • Quantum Conundrum - Haven't beat
  • Papo & Yo
  • The Unfinished Swan

The only game endings that I liked were Mass Effect 3, Max Payne 3, The Darkness 2, and Papo & Yo.

Yeah Dishonored wasn't necessarily bad but unfulfilling. I liked Asura's Wrath ending a lot (did you play the dlc one?) so we disagree on that one and ME3 ending was terrible so we also disagree there. Still need to play Max Payne 3 though...

#44 Edited by Tennmuerti (8073 posts) -

@Pezen:

Honestly to me this looks like it boils down to the fact that you still think of Wei as a cop. Or that his actions should be moral at least. Or lawful. (i might be wrong, but that's how it comes across)

But he is not a one dimensional character. (the first time he kills a human being in non self defense he is no longer morally innocent, he crossed the line). Wei is a person with an arc to his motivations, objectives, priorities. He stops seeing things only from one side.

That's the brilliance of the game's narrative. And ending.

#45 Posted by awesomeusername (4174 posts) -

@Nightriff said:

@awesomeusername said:

@Nightriff said:

@awesomeusername: You must have played shit games this year then cause out of the few games I got to play so far, I have loved all their endings.

I've beat 24 retail and 4 downloadable games. Only almost half of them were 2012 games.

  • Mass Effect 3
  • Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
  • Prototype 2
  • Max Payne 3
  • Dishonored
  • The Darkness 2
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Assassin's Creed 3
  • The Walking Dead - One more episode!
  • Quantum Conundrum - Haven't beat
  • Papo & Yo
  • The Unfinished Swan

The only game endings that I liked were Mass Effect 3, Max Payne 3, The Darkness 2, and Papo & Yo.

Yeah Dishonored wasn't necessarily bad but unfulfilling. I liked Asura's Wrath ending a lot (did you play the dlc one?) so we disagree on that one and ME3 ending was terrible so we also disagree there. Still need to play Max Payne 3 though...

I'm not saying all those games had awful endings. I just wrote down the 2012 games I played. I haven't played the Asura DLC so I didn't like the cliffhanger ending. Will play it soon though. I got the bad ending for Dishonored so until I get the good ending, I won't comment on the game. The Unfinished Swan ended so abruptly so that was why I disappointed with it. RE: ORC was bad. AC3 had a good ending for Connor, a bad ending for Desmond. I didn't like like ME3's ending, I just thought it was okay because not everyone gets to live in war. It was poorly explained but I think it was fitting for Shep to bite the dust. Prototype 2 was okay I guess.

#46 Posted by Nightriff (4991 posts) -

@awesomeusername: I've actually heard that the "bad" ending in dishonored is actually the better out of the two. The good ending was fine. Just out of curiosity have you not played Journey?

#47 Posted by awesomeusername (4174 posts) -

@Nightriff:Dishonored's ending was alright and no I haven't played Journey. I'm waiting to buy the collectors edition with Flow & Flower.

#48 Posted by MiniPato (2732 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

@Pezen:

Honestly to me this looks like it boils down to the fact that you still think of Wei as a cop. Or that his actions should be moral at least. Or lawful. (i might be wrong, but that's how it comes across)

But he is not a one dimensional character. (the first time he kills a human being in non self defense he is no longer morally innocent, he crossed the line). Wei is a person with an arc to his motivations, objectives, priorities. He stops seeing things only from one side.

That's the brilliance of the game's narrative. And ending.

Yeah, it's better to think of Wei as a human being more than some idealized supercop who has a stone cold set of morals and has to act consistently within those confines. Fact is, when you're an undercover cop, those morals and rules erode and the lines begin to blur and you can't try to predict how he will act based on his cop persona alone. His triad persona is as prominent as it is brutal and only continues to grow the more he stays in deep cover. When Wei said "I came here to take down the Sun On Yee, not to shuffle the deck!" I didn't buy it. I looked at it as more like an excuse to keep up the charade until he can kill Big Smile Lee, the man responsible for sending his sister down a dark path till she OD'd. He's fine with shuffling the deck, as long as Big Smile Lee isn't among the cards. Plus Big Smile Lee is just an overall scumbag who doesn't obey the laws of the police or even the laws of hierarchy and respect within his own triad. If you look at Wei as a person driven more by vengeance than justice (not that they can't be one and the same but I mean justice within the confines of what is legal), it really contextualizes everything he does in a way that doesn't make him seem out of character at all. I mean, you're putting people on fish hooks and ice grinders.

Not that Wei is a bad person. He still has a code. It's just that, like you said, he sees things from more than one side and his moral code has grown beyond the borders of the law.

Anyways, if you can't tell, I really liked the ending. Jackie was a character that could have easily been annoying, but they played up that naive and obnoxious side of him to contrast with when he faces the reality and danger of being a Sun On Yee member. Sure, it was pretty predictable, he might as well have said "I'm two days away from retirement. Here's a picture of a girl I have back home." But I still wanted him to live and still got pissed when they tortured him to death.

Could the ending have been better? Yes. But given the crazy ass development of Sleeping Dogs, I think they delivered an awesome story with some great characters.

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